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[Locked] The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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Then why did pro leagues (then called "MLG") choose to increase base movement speed in an effort to increase the speed of the combat? That's no illusion my friend that's what actually happened and the result was a different type of game that played faster and more like Halo 2. I'm not trying to get into a "which was better?" debate between 2 and 3 because that's not what this thread is about... However base movement speed was a factor in Halo 3 playing different than in Halo 2 because when it was increased Halo 3 played more like Halo 2. That said, Halo 3 was still a fine game in the slower, more controlled default pace. Therefore giving players the ability to choose between walking or sprinting merges a slower pace of gameplay with a faster pace- therefore opening the door to making more maps actually work for Halo games with a sprint option. Sprint is less confining and restrictive than one single base movement speed.
You kidding? Sprint's entirely more restrictive than one base movement speed. All maps are designed with the highest movement speed in mind. They're not designed around walking speed. Look at Truth. It's SUPER stretched out because of sprint (And other abilities) and there's a lot of dead space in the bottom of the map where nothing happens. Because of that stretched out nature of the map (And every other map in game), you NEED to be sprinting for a majority of the time, since your base movement speed isn't enough to keep up with your allies, or enemies, nor is it enough to make a lot of the jumps in the game, given things like gaps are also widened. With that, it's not giving the player a "choice" to sprint or not. You're FORCED to use it if you want to actually be able to competently operate on a map. There is no choice, you're going to have to use it for certain arbitrary areas that wouldn't normally be there if sprint wasn't.

But to that point, you don't get it. MLG changed the settings to 110% because of again, the FoV and to compensate for the slower strafe speed, both of which weren't in consumer accessible settings. It had nothing to do with the movement itself actually being slower than prior titles. The only thing the upped movement speed did was make shooting a little more harder (Because strafe and faster targets), which was only negatively compounded by the RNG BR. It wouldn't have made the game itself actually faster though, and if anything, the amped 110% damage alongside it kept its pace the same as it would've been at 100%, if not slower since it was harder to hit things.
.
The bridge in the gap between 2's faster base movement and speed of combat and Halo 3's slower, more controlled pace IS NOT trying to tweak ONE base movement speed. The BRIDGE is to continue to keep sprint and to give players the CHOICE of which speed they want to use depending on the situation. Cat and mouse games CANNOT go on forever because sprint is temporary.
Halo 2's faster base movement speed? Faster than Halo 3? Nope. Default base movement speeds for the original trilogy were the same across all games.

As I also said, I was unaware that the original trilogy had A binary movement setting, full speed stand still, considering the analog thumbstick, with analog output.
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Then why did pro leagues (then called "MLG") choose to increase base movement speed in an effort to increase the speed of the combat? That's no illusion my friend that's what actually happened and the result was a different type of game that played faster and more like Halo 2. I'm not trying to get into a "which was better?" debate between 2 and 3 because that's not what this thread is about... However base movement speed was a factor in Halo 3 playing different than in Halo 2 because when it was increased Halo 3 played more like Halo 2. That said, Halo 3 was still a fine game in the slower, more controlled default pace. Therefore giving players the ability to choose between walking or sprinting merges a slower pace of gameplay with a faster pace- therefore opening the door to making more maps actually work for Halo games with a sprint option. Sprint is less confining and restrictive than one single base movement speed.
You kidding? Sprint's entirely more restrictive than one base movement speed. All maps are designed with the highest movement speed in mind. They're not designed around walking speed. Look at Truth. It's SUPER stretched out because of sprint (And other abilities) and there's a lot of dead space in the bottom of the map where nothing happens. Because of that stretched out nature of the map (And every other map in game), you NEED to be sprinting for a majority of the time, since your base movement speed isn't enough to keep up with your allies, or enemies, nor is it enough to make a lot of the jumps in the game, given things like gaps are also widened. With that, it's not giving the player a "choice" to sprint or not. You're FORCED to use it if you want to actually be able to competently operate on a map. There is no choice, you're going to have to use it for certain arbitrary areas that wouldn't normally be there if sprint wasn't.

But to that point, you don't get it. MLG changed the settings to 110% because of again, the FoV and to compensate for the slower strafe speed, both of which weren't in consumer accessible settings. It had nothing to do with the movement itself actually being slower than prior titles. The only thing the upped movement speed did was make shooting a little more harder (Because strafe and faster targets), which was only negatively compounded by the RNG BR. It wouldn't have made the game itself actually faster though, and if anything, the amped 110% damage alongside it kept its pace the same as it would've been at 100%, if not slower since it was harder to hit things.
No I'm not kidding you. Since we are debating this issue it wouldn't be very respectful to be joking with you when I discuss my points on the issue. And I do disagree entirely with you when you say that "all maps are designed with the highest movement speed in mind." You've completely lost sight with the fact that maps do not reward people who move the fastest. You don't get wins by sprinting as much as you can around a map. You could argue that shoulder charges are cheap but they are a separate issue, easily countered, and not even one-hit kills anyway. This thread isn't about shoulder charges either, but killing people with them are correlated to sprint and barring swords (which are a power weapon anyway), they're the only way players can literally actually get rewarded just for using sprint. For the most part you rarely see people using sprint in competitive gameplay except when absolutely necessary. It's a risk/reward concept. You can just as easily get burned for trying to sprint on a map because you cannot shoot or recharge your shields whilst sprinting and are therefore defenseless when you're in the act of sprinting. Maps are not designed to cater to people who use sprint all the time. But using sprint at the right times can be valuable for trying to grab weapons when they spawn or power ups. And sprint certainly can reduce the sheer boredom involved with having to cross large expanses of space. But any time that a player chooses to use sprint they're also making themselves more vulnerable so it's not like sprint is enabling players to win games.

And you don't get it- The MLG community chose to increase base movement speed because it was TOO SLOW. That's it. The game played toooooo sloooooow. Increasing base movement made the game play faster. You can't undermine that and you certainly cannot say that making players move 10% faster, "wouldn't have made the game itself actually faster." That is simply just an illogical statement. Like... I know you really, really want sprint to be removed and all but just think about what you just said there.
-Warzone spawns are pretty much even... They're reminiscent of spawns in OG Halo on Blood Gultch as a matter of fact.

-Grenades don't affect gameplay very much that's why they're just equipment- as such picking them up rarely results in anything that could be considered game changing. Perks or no perks, picking up a grenade is typically an afterthought/subconscious type of action.

So to me, two movement speeds is simply more realistic... Common sense dictates that Spartans SHOULD be able to maneuver faster when the situation calls for it. Also it matches canon- Just pick up and read any Halo lore featuring Spartans engaging in combat... Every Halo novel depicts Spartans that RUN only when they HAVE TO. So that's it- adding a sense of verisimilitude to a science fiction story is not only great way to help Halo feel just a little bit more real but it's also a way for 343i to stay honest regarding Halo canon.
Warzone spawns are nothing like CE's, don't kid yourself. Grenades affect Halo 5's gameplay a lot, especially with the addition of grenade hitmarkers, unlike earlier games where grenades, while useful, weren't used as a constant tool to randomly find people across the map. The argument for two movement speeds being realistic and being good for the game are entirely different. You shouldn't add sprint because of lore in the same way you shouldn't design the weapon sandbox around how said weapons act in the lore. Sprint's messed up the competitive viability of the game in multiple ways and on top of it, the pace, although, the two can be intertwined, and with that, 343i can stay honest to Halo's canon in multiple other ways, that don't impact how Halo plays.
Don't "kid," myself? AYFKM? That's the whole way you approach trying to counter somebody's point? That's almost laughable except you're actually serious in that statement... Wow.

Grenades are still just equipment- And picking them up on the map IS just an after thought. Finding a few people crouching around via tossing grenades on a whim is still such a small part of any game it's not even worthy of such a discussion, let alone as an attempt to try and counter the point that picking up grenades laying around on maps is still an after thought.

And the argument for two movement speeds IS NOT separate from this discussion. Wanting my Spartan to move like the Spartans in the Halo books is absolutely not something you can extract from this discussion. You're opinion here is actually not some condescending "shock and awe," epiphany- you're still just another pro-sprinter extremist that wants to under value the opposing point of view any way that you possible can. And Halo 5 has been enormously successful in the pro scene so how on earth can you even justify your opinion that, "sprint messed up the competitive viability of [Halo]"?? You can't other than you just prefer sprint... Which is also just an opinion- no different than mine, except I prefer to keep things in perspective...
Spartans in the books could sprint and shoot accurately. But yes, continue to refer back to the books.
No I'm not kidding you. Since we are debating this issue it wouldn't be very respectful to be joking with you when I discuss my points on the issue. And I do disagree entirely with you when you say that "all maps are designed with the highest movement speed in mind." You've completely lost sight with the fact that maps do not reward people who move the fastest. You don't get wins by sprinting as much as you can around a map. You could argue that shoulder charges are cheap but they are a separate issue, easily countered, and not even one-hit kills anyway. This thread isn't about shoulder charges either, but killing people with them are correlated to sprint and barring swords (which are a power weapon anyway), they're the only way players can literally actually get rewarded just for using sprint.
No, you don't get it. The maps are designed around the abilities and such, not the base movement. Somebody moving at base movement speed is putting themselves at a blatant disadvantage. Map movement as a whole is rewarded much more so when you use sprint. You can get to weapons or powerups faster, you can run away from gunfights faster than the person fighting you can follow you, with the sword's speed boost, you move at a much higher speed, which is negatively compounded by its insane smart scope lunge. I don't care if it's a power weapon. It's obnoxiously balanced, especially when Halo: Reach or Halo 4, games with faster sprint speeds, didn't have it, and didn't need to for the weapon to be effective. That's not even counting how the use of sprint aids in the multiple abilities and map navigation as a whole. If you went an entire game without using sprint, you'd be getting slain consistently, because you couldn't quickly contest any weapons, you couldn't run to your teammates fast enough to help them, and you sure couldn't run away from gunfights in a losing situation. You wouldn't be able to properly navigate certain portions of the map that require a sprint+jump+thrust combo to clear, such as certain gaps on Plaza, Empire, Eden, or Riptide.

You are most certainly rewarded in more ways than you listed for using sprint, than you are for not (You're punished for not using it) and if you disagree on maps being designed around the highest movement speed, you're objectively wrong as this is something that has been stated by game developers in the industry, and has also been studied by people who just play the game and understand it at a deep level.
OG Nick wrote:
-Warzone spawns are pretty much even... They're reminiscent of spawns in OG Halo on Blood Gultch as a matter of fact.

-Grenades don't affect gameplay very much that's why they're just equipment- as such picking them up rarely results in anything that could be considered game changing. Perks or no perks, picking up a grenade is typically an afterthought/subconscious type of action.

So to me, two movement speeds is simply more realistic... Common sense dictates that Spartans SHOULD be able to maneuver faster when the situation calls for it. Also it matches canon- Just pick up and read any Halo lore featuring Spartans engaging in combat... Every Halo novel depicts Spartans that RUN only when they HAVE TO. So that's it- adding a sense of verisimilitude to a science fiction story is not only great way to help Halo feel just a little bit more real but it's also a way for 343i to stay honest regarding Halo canon.
Warzone spawns are nothing like CE's, don't kid yourself. Grenades affect Halo 5's gameplay a lot, especially with the addition of grenade hitmarkers, unlike earlier games where grenades, while useful, weren't used as a constant tool to randomly find people across the map. The argument for two movement speeds being realistic and being good for the game are entirely different. You shouldn't add sprint because of lore in the same way you shouldn't design the weapon sandbox around how said weapons act in the lore. Sprint's messed up the competitive viability of the game in multiple ways and on top of it, the pace, although, the two can be intertwined, and with that, 343i can stay honest to Halo's canon in multiple other ways, that don't impact how Halo plays.
Don't "kid," myself? AYFKM? That's the whole way you approach trying to counter somebody's point? That's almost laughable except you're actually serious in that statement... Wow.

Grenades are still just equipment- And picking them up on the map IS just an after thought. Finding a few people crouching around via tossing grenades on a whim is still such a small part of any game it's not even worthy of such a discussion, let alone as an attempt to try and counter the point that picking up grenades laying around on maps is still an after thought.

And the argument for two movement speeds IS NOT separate from this discussion. Wanting my Spartan to move like the Spartans in the Halo books is absolutely not something you can extract from this discussion. You're opinion here is actually not some condescending "shock and awe," epiphany- you're still just another pro-sprinter extremist that wants to under value the opposing point of view any way that you possible can. And Halo 5 has been enormously successful in the pro scene so how on earth can you even justify your opinion that, "sprint messed up the competitive viability of [Halo]"?? You can't other than you just prefer sprint... Which is also just an opinion- no different than mine, except I prefer to keep things in perspective...
Spartans in the books could sprint and shoot accurately. But yes, continue to refer back to the books.
Hey man that'd be great to me if sprint could be true to lore. But I wholly understand why 343i made it a trade-off. They clearly wanted to seek some middle ground with players like you who don't like or want sprint. And I actually respect that. Although I would prefer to be able to shoot when I sprint I actually think it's better for competitive gameplay to not have that option.
OG Nick wrote:
-Warzone spawns are pretty much even... They're reminiscent of spawns in OG Halo on Blood Gultch as a matter of fact.

-Grenades don't affect gameplay very much that's why they're just equipment- as such picking them up rarely results in anything that could be considered game changing. Perks or no perks, picking up a grenade is typically an afterthought/subconscious type of action.

So to me, two movement speeds is simply more realistic... Common sense dictates that Spartans SHOULD be able to maneuver faster when the situation calls for it. Also it matches canon- Just pick up and read any Halo lore featuring Spartans engaging in combat... Every Halo novel depicts Spartans that RUN only when they HAVE TO. So that's it- adding a sense of verisimilitude to a science fiction story is not only great way to help Halo feel just a little bit more real but it's also a way for 343i to stay honest regarding Halo canon.
Warzone spawns are nothing like CE's, don't kid yourself. Grenades affect Halo 5's gameplay a lot, especially with the addition of grenade hitmarkers, unlike earlier games where grenades, while useful, weren't used as a constant tool to randomly find people across the map. The argument for two movement speeds being realistic and being good for the game are entirely different. You shouldn't add sprint because of lore in the same way you shouldn't design the weapon sandbox around how said weapons act in the lore. Sprint's messed up the competitive viability of the game in multiple ways and on top of it, the pace, although, the two can be intertwined, and with that, 343i can stay honest to Halo's canon in multiple other ways, that don't impact how Halo plays.
Don't "kid," myself? AYFKM? That's the whole way you approach trying to counter somebody's point? That's almost laughable except you're actually serious in that statement... Wow.

Grenades are still just equipment- And picking them up on the map IS just an after thought. Finding a few people crouching around via tossing grenades on a whim is still such a small part of any game it's not even worthy of such a discussion, let alone as an attempt to try and counter the point that picking up grenades laying around on maps is still an after thought.

And the argument for two movement speeds IS NOT separate from this discussion. Wanting my Spartan to move like the Spartans in the Halo books is absolutely not something you can extract from this discussion. You're opinion here is actually not some condescending "shock and awe," epiphany- you're still just another pro-sprinter extremist that wants to under value the opposing point of view any way that you possible can. And Halo 5 has been enormously successful in the pro scene so how on earth can you even justify your opinion that, "sprint messed up the competitive viability of [Halo]"?? You can't other than you just prefer sprint... Which is also just an opinion- no different than mine, except I prefer to keep things in perspective...
Spartans in the books could sprint and shoot accurately. But yes, continue to refer back to the books.
Hey man that'd be great to me if sprint could be true to lore. But I wholly understand why 343i made it a trade-off. They clearly wanted to seek some middle ground with players like you who don't like or want sprint. And I actually respect that. Although I would prefer to be able to shoot when I sprint I actually think it's better for competitive gameplay to not have that option.
Middle grounds satisfy no one. And honestly, lore should NEVER interfere with gameplay, at least the MP side of it. Because it creates imbalances, band aid fixes, and dissatisfaction between camps of players that enjoy MP.
No I'm not kidding you. Since we are debating this issue it wouldn't be very respectful to be joking with you when I discuss my points on the issue. And I do disagree entirely with you when you say that "all maps are designed with the highest movement speed in mind." You've completely lost sight with the fact that maps do not reward people who move the fastest. You don't get wins by sprinting as much as you can around a map. You could argue that shoulder charges are cheap but they are a separate issue, easily countered, and not even one-hit kills anyway. This thread isn't about shoulder charges either, but killing people with them are correlated to sprint and barring swords (which are a power weapon anyway), they're the only way players can literally actually get rewarded just for using sprint.
No, you don't get it. The maps are designed around the abilities and such, not the base movement. Somebody moving at base movement speed is putting themselves at a blatant disadvantage. Map movement as a whole is rewarded much more so when you use sprint. You can get to weapons or powerups faster, you can run away from gunfights faster than the person fighting you can follow you, with the sword's speed boost, you move at a much higher speed, which is negatively compounded by its insane smart scope lunge. I don't care if it's a power weapon. It's obnoxiously balanced, especially when Halo: Reach or Halo 4, games with faster sprint speeds, didn't have it, and didn't need to for the weapon to be effective. That's not even counting how the use of sprint aids in the multiple abilities and map navigation as a whole. If you went an entire game without using sprint, you'd be getting slain consistently, because you couldn't quickly contest any weapons, you couldn't run to your teammates fast enough to help them, and you sure couldn't run away from gunfights in a losing situation. You wouldn't be able to properly navigate certain portions of the map that require a sprint+jump+thrust combo to clear, such as certain gaps on Plaza, Empire, Eden, or Riptide.

You are most certainly rewarded in more ways than you listed for using sprint, than you are for not (You're punished for not using it) and if you disagree on maps being designed around the highest movement speed, you're objectively wrong as this is something that has been stated by game developers in the industry, and has also been studied by people who just play the game and understand it at a deep level.
"No you," "no you don't get it," like just stop it already... And stop cruising through my replies looking for excerpts you think you can more easily pick out because it's quite rude. If you really cannot reply to my points then just don't respond- versus pulling out a peice of the reply. That's what people do when they're either 1) getting lazy, 2) getting beat, or 3) just cruising for easy fodder to pick out.

But you're not punished for not using sprint- you can't shoot when you're sprinting. You think that was an accident? That was developed and tuned through the Halo 5 Beta to try to cater to people like you who didn't like sprint. There are clear and distinct trade offs when one chooses to use sprint. Like I mentioned before (but you cut out), using sprint renders you ENTIRELY DEFENSELESS. I'm not sure if you read that the first time I posted it because you cut that part out in your reply so I bolded it for you this time. If you use sprint you can't shoot back... Nor do your shields even regenerate. And perhaps even most importantly- using sprint is a temporary thing. So your cat and mouse argument doesn't hold up- eventually the "cat," will indeed catch the, "mouse," when sprint wears off... Unless the cat chases incorrectly in which case it becomes the mouse for making a bad play.
"No you," "no you don't get it," like just stop it already... And stop cruising through my replies to you looking for excerpts you think you can more easily pick out because it's quite rude. If you can reply to my points then just don't respond- versus pulling out a peice of the reply. That's what people do when they're either 1) getting lazy, 2) getting beat, or 3) just cruising for easy fodder to pick out.

But you're not punished for not using sprint- you can't shoot when you're sprinting. You think that was an accident? That was developed and tuned through the Halo 5 Beta to try to cater to people like you who didn't like sprint. There are clear and distinct trade offs when one chooses to use sprint. Like I mentioned before (but you cut out), using sprint renders you ENTIRELY DEFENSELESS. I'm not sure if you read that the first time I posted it because you cut that part out in your reply so I bolded it for you this time. If you use sprint you can't shoot back... Nor do your shields even regenerate. And perhaps even most importantly- using sprint is a temporary thing. So your cat and mouse argument doesn't hold up- eventually the "cat," will indeed catch the, "mouse," when sprint wears off... Unless the cat chases incorrectly in which case it becomes the mouse for making a bad play.
I didn't cut out anything. You just added stuff to your reply after I'd replied to your comment, but do go on trying to make it seem like I'm antagonizing you. :P Or, yunno, actually think out your reply and fill it with your thoughts entirely before calling me out on that falsely, and trying to come off as the "mature" one.

Back to the topic, you are punished for not using sprint. I literally listed every reason that you'd be basically useless in a game if you didn't use sprint, versus users who did. You're at a disadvantage if you don't use it. There's no positive trade off to not using sprint outside of a fight. Bar that, when you sprint, you don't need to worry about your shields, or the guy chasing you. Just run to your teammates and you can just outnumber the guy following you. So what if you're defenseless when you're running across the map? You can still make it to your team faster than they can and raise your weapon to fight them before they reach you. It's not a temporary thing, either. Sprint in Halo 5's unlimited. You can run for as long as you need to.
I leave waypoint for a few months and this is the first thing I see. Some things never change...
OG Nick wrote:
OG Nick wrote:
-Warzone spawns are pretty much even... They're reminiscent of spawns in OG Halo on Blood Gultch as a matter of fact.

-Grenades don't affect gameplay very much that's why they're just equipment- as such picking them up rarely results in anything that could be considered game changing. Perks or no perks, picking up a grenade is typically an afterthought/subconscious type of action.

So to me, two movement speeds is simply more realistic... Common sense dictates that Spartans SHOULD be able to maneuver faster when the situation calls for it. Also it matches canon- Just pick up and read any Halo lore featuring Spartans engaging in combat... Every Halo novel depicts Spartans that RUN only when they HAVE TO. So that's it- adding a sense of verisimilitude to a science fiction story is not only great way to help Halo feel just a little bit more real but it's also a way for 343i to stay honest regarding Halo canon.
Warzone spawns are nothing like CE's, don't kid yourself. Grenades affect Halo 5's gameplay a lot, especially with the addition of grenade hitmarkers, unlike earlier games where grenades, while useful, weren't used as a constant tool to randomly find people across the map. The argument for two movement speeds being realistic and being good for the game are entirely different. You shouldn't add sprint because of lore in the same way you shouldn't design the weapon sandbox around how said weapons act in the lore. Sprint's messed up the competitive viability of the game in multiple ways and on top of it, the pace, although, the two can be intertwined, and with that, 343i can stay honest to Halo's canon in multiple other ways, that don't impact how Halo plays.
Don't "kid," myself? AYFKM? That's the whole way you approach trying to counter somebody's point? That's almost laughable except you're actually serious in that statement... Wow.

Grenades are still just equipment- And picking them up on the map IS just an after thought. Finding a few people crouching around via tossing grenades on a whim is still such a small part of any game it's not even worthy of such a discussion, let alone as an attempt to try and counter the point that picking up grenades laying around on maps is still an after thought.

And the argument for two movement speeds IS NOT separate from this discussion. Wanting my Spartan to move like the Spartans in the Halo books is absolutely not something you can extract from this discussion. You're opinion here is actually not some condescending "shock and awe," epiphany- you're still just another pro-sprinter extremist that wants to under value the opposing point of view any way that you possible can. And Halo 5 has been enormously successful in the pro scene so how on earth can you even justify your opinion that, "sprint messed up the competitive viability of [Halo]"?? You can't other than you just prefer sprint... Which is also just an opinion- no different than mine, except I prefer to keep things in perspective...
Spartans in the books could sprint and shoot accurately. But yes, continue to refer back to the books.
Hey man that'd be great to me if sprint could be true to lore. But I wholly understand why 343i made it a trade-off. They clearly wanted to seek some middle ground with players like you who don't like or want sprint. And I actually respect that. Although I would prefer to be able to shoot when I sprint I actually think it's better for competitive gameplay to not have that option.
Middle grounds satisfy no one. And honestly, lore should NEVER interfere with gameplay, at least the MP side of it. Because it creates imbalances, band aid fixes, and dissatisfaction between camps of players that enjoy MP.
"Middle grounds satisfy no one"? So compromising and conflict resolution are just null and void in your world then? So what's the point of even arguing with someone like you that has no intention of ever compromising in anything?

There's also a distinct difference between lore "interfering," with gameplay and aiding it. It's not like some lore character just pops out inexplicably during MP and shoots people in the face out of nowhere. I mean, AIs kinda suck sometimes in Warzone but they're also explained and players are given clear warning when and where they're actually coming into the map.

Either way, my point is that I agree with you to an extent. Lore should not interfere with gameplay.
But lore can help with gameplay. To that end- sprint doesn't fit that category of "interference," at all for me. Sprint isn't even a game changer- Game changers to me change the balance of play. Sprint is so equally balanced- I can't sprint any more or any less than the opposition. I know I'm completely defenseless when I'm sprint just like the opposition is completely defenseless when they're sprinting. By that I mean players cannot shoot or recharge their shields... And the sprint is going to run out pretty fast anyway. Either way the match will boil down to who shoots better- not who can run better or cover more distance.

So being able to "sprint like a Spartan," is more or less like a nod to lore more than anything else for me. It's not about staying true to lore either- I very much doubt that was Bungie's original intent when they first implemented sprint in Reach... I very much doubt the decision-making process behind implementing sprint started with anything like, "...well the Spartans in the book could do it so..."

That said, this facet of the game is more like an incidental nod to lore. Sprint makes sense, and part of the reason it does is because Spartans do it in lore. Lore lining up with this facet of the game is a tertiary bonus; but it's not a driving factor behind keeping it either. There are more important reasons why sprint should stay than lore, but it's a valid one nonetheless.
Nooga wrote:
Id rather keep sprint.
Agreed
"No you," "no you don't get it," like just stop it already... And stop cruising through my replies to you looking for excerpts you think you can more easily pick out because it's quite rude. If you can reply to my points then just don't respond- versus pulling out a peice of the reply. That's what people do when they're either 1) getting lazy, 2) getting beat, or 3) just cruising for easy fodder to pick out.

But you're not punished for not using sprint- you can't shoot when you're sprinting. You think that was an accident? That was developed and tuned through the Halo 5 Beta to try to cater to people like you who didn't like sprint. There are clear and distinct trade offs when one chooses to use sprint. Like I mentioned before (but you cut out), using sprint renders you ENTIRELY DEFENSELESS. I'm not sure if you read that the first time I posted it because you cut that part out in your reply so I bolded it for you this time. If you use sprint you can't shoot back... Nor do your shields even regenerate. And perhaps even most importantly- using sprint is a temporary thing. So your cat and mouse argument doesn't hold up- eventually the "cat," will indeed catch the, "mouse," when sprint wears off... Unless the cat chases incorrectly in which case it becomes the mouse for making a bad play.
I didn't cut out anything. You just added stuff to your reply after I'd replied to your comment, but do go on trying to make it seem like I'm antagonizing you. :P Or, yunno, actually think out your reply and fill it with your thoughts entirely before calling me out on that falsely, and trying to come off as the "mature" one.

Back to the topic, you are punished for not using sprint. I literally listed every reason that you'd be basically useless in a game if you didn't use sprint, versus users who did. You're at a disadvantage if you don't use it. There's no positive trade off to not using sprint outside of a fight. Bar that, when you sprint, you don't need to worry about your shields, or the guy chasing you. Just run to your teammates and you can just outnumber the guy following you. So what if you're defenseless when you're running across the map? You can still make it to your team faster than they can and raise your weapon to fight them before they reach you. It's not a temporary thing, either. Sprint in Halo 5's unlimited. You can run for as long as you need to.
Running to your teammates is a smart play. Chasing someone incorrectly is just a bad play. Are all those teammates going to be sprinting too? No- because kills are not generated by people sprinting. Kills happen when people are standing still. Sprinting is a risky decision. It can pay off by getting players to weapons and equipment faster or it can backfire during situations like the one you just described when someone chases another player into their waiting teammates. That's called a trap my friend and it's not like sprint is the culprit of someone deciding to chase incorrectly and they end up making a bad play instead.
Noobbrett2 wrote:
Nooga wrote:
Id rather keep sprint.
Agreed
Agreed as well- but be warned. You should careful trying to debate with these anti-sprinters... They take this stuff really... REALLY seriously and they don't take kindly to people who disagree with them. :-P
Noobbrett2 wrote:
Nooga wrote:
Id rather keep sprint.
Agreed
Agreed as well- but be warned. You should careful trying to debate with these anti-sprinters... They take this stuff really... REALLY seriously and they don't take kindly to people who disagree with them. :-P
For whatever it's worth I agree with you guys.
Running to your teammates is a smart play. Chasing someone incorrectly is just a bad play. Are all those teammates going to be sprinting too? No- because kills are not generated by people sprinting. Kills happen when people are standing still. Sprinting is a risky decision. It can pay off by getting players to weapons and equipment faster or it can backfire during situations like the one you just described when someone chases another player into their waiting teammates. That's called a trap my friend and it's not like sprint is the culprit of someone deciding to chase incorrectly and they end up making a bad play instead.
Okay? If your teammates aren't sprinting that just makes reaching them easier. The point being, sprint makes these plays possible in the first place, when they normally wouldn't. In Halo 1-3, you wouldn't be running away from fights as effectively, nor as easily as you could now. If you did end up falling back, the only thing you could rely upon is your ability to strongside away, not a secondary movement speed. Strongsiding was an actual strategy, with downsides to only you. Not your enemy. Your enemy had the upside, since you'd be putting your weapon to the floor, while they could chase you with theirs up, WITHOUT being hampered by a second movement speed.

Sprint is ENTIRELY the culprit of allowing someone to run so effectively, while forcing the other to chase with their weapon down, elongating confrontations and allowing people to escape in manners that shouldn't occur. It's a play that wouldn't be made if sprint wasn't there. Furthermore, sprint allows you to get out of bad situations. If you make a bad play and encounter two players in older Halos (bar CE), they'd melt you for rushing forward recklessly which is an actual bad play. You can rarely escape it. In Halo 5, if you find two players, you can always run away without fail, and escape due to the segmented nature of the maps (A result of sprint), while your opponents can either opt to run after you, or just not even bother, both of which are options which slow down the game's pace exponentially.

It doesn't matter if kills are only generated when people are standing still, sprint is forced upon you as a player in game, so you're GOING to be doing it. Be it to run away, or navigate the map. It isn't a risky decision. You press a button and have a faster speed than other players around you. It makes it easier to run from fights, run to weapons/powerups, or run to power positions/other misc. pickups. There's no risk or reward to it, given any "risk" is just nullified by how you can run away. See an enemy? Run away. Get in a bad position? Run away from it. The enemy can't follow you. You outside of your team's protection? Run away to them. There's no downside to you.
OG Nick wrote:
OG Nick wrote:
-Warzone spawns are pretty much even... They're reminiscent of spawns in OG Halo on Blood Gultch as a matter of fact.

-Grenades don't affect gameplay very much that's why they're just equipment- as such picking them up rarely results in anything that could be considered game changing. Perks or no perks, picking up a grenade is typically an afterthought/subconscious type of action.

So to me, two movement speeds is simply more realistic... Common sense dictates that Spartans SHOULD be able to maneuver faster when the situation calls for it. Also it matches canon- Just pick up and read any Halo lore featuring Spartans engaging in combat... Every Halo novel depicts Spartans that RUN only when they HAVE TO. So that's it- adding a sense of verisimilitude to a science fiction story is not only great way to help Halo feel just a little bit more real but it's also a way for 343i to stay honest regarding Halo canon.
Warzone spawns are nothing like CE's, don't kid yourself. Grenades affect Halo 5's gameplay a lot, especially with the addition of grenade hitmarkers, unlike earlier games where grenades, while useful, weren't used as a constant tool to randomly find people across the map. The argument for two movement speeds being realistic and being good for the game are entirely different. You shouldn't add sprint because of lore in the same way you shouldn't design the weapon sandbox around how said weapons act in the lore. Sprint's messed up the competitive viability of the game in multiple ways and on top of it, the pace, although, the two can be intertwined, and with that, 343i can stay honest to Halo's canon in multiple other ways, that don't impact how Halo plays.
Don't "kid," myself? AYFKM? That's the whole way you approach trying to counter somebody's point? That's almost laughable except you're actually serious in that statement... Wow.

Grenades are still just equipment- And picking them up on the map IS just an after thought. Finding a few people crouching around via tossing grenades on a whim is still such a small part of any game it's not even worthy of such a discussion, let alone as an attempt to try and counter the point that picking up grenades laying around on maps is still an after thought.

And the argument for two movement speeds IS NOT separate from this discussion. Wanting my Spartan to move like the Spartans in the Halo books is absolutely not something you can extract from this discussion. You're opinion here is actually not some condescending "shock and awe," epiphany- you're still just another pro-sprinter extremist that wants to under value the opposing point of view any way that you possible can. And Halo 5 has been enormously successful in the pro scene so how on earth can you even justify your opinion that, "sprint messed up the competitive viability of [Halo]"?? You can't other than you just prefer sprint... Which is also just an opinion- no different than mine, except I prefer to keep things in perspective...
Spartans in the books could sprint and shoot accurately. But yes, continue to refer back to the books.
Hey man that'd be great to me if sprint could be true to lore. But I wholly understand why 343i made it a trade-off. They clearly wanted to seek some middle ground with players like you who don't like or want sprint. And I actually respect that. Although I would prefer to be able to shoot when I sprint I actually think it's better for competitive gameplay to not have that option.
Middle grounds satisfy no one. And honestly, lore should NEVER interfere with gameplay, at least the MP side of it. Because it creates imbalances, band aid fixes, and dissatisfaction between camps of players that enjoy MP.
In gameplay middle ground satisfies no one. There specific enough for you?
Sprint interferes with Halos core gameplay. In past Halos before sprint, you were punished for being out of position, in H5 in particular being caught out of position isn't as punishing. The sprint band aids of shields don't recharges while sprinting doesn't help, and leaves people unsatisfied because it doesn't solve the fundamental issues sprint bring to the table.
Issue 1) You move faster with your gun up. So does your opponent.
This means a couple things. But for clarity it means that you are not punished for making a bad play because if you sprint around a corner, even if your sheilds aren't coming back, your opponent has to lower their weapon (ie the way they kill you) just to keep up. This makes running away several times easier because even the opponent can see me, they can't shoot me unlike previous Halos. You may be quick to bring up using your teammates, but Halo 5 has plenty of LOS blockers. These LOS blockers allow people to sprint away from a bad situation easily.

Issue 2) Stretched maps
This one is actually visable. Doing a lap around midship in H2 takes about the same time as sprinting around truth. However, in H2 the spartan always has their weapon up and ready to fight.

Issue 3) Movement becomes random
Two speeds means a player can be in a multitude of different locations along a path, without stopping at any given point. The number of jumps, routes, and flanks sprint allows means that players cannot predict a set pattern of movement. Now you might say, "But in older halos people couldn't predict movement all the time", and yes this is true. However, these plays are coupled with a set of conditions to make them work, such as teammates making a push, a power weapon about to spawn, or a combination of the two and an objective.

Halos core gameplay suffers from sprint. The game is overall less punishing than it used to be. It's easier to escape bad plays. It's harder to determine a set pattern of player movement. It's less skillful to traverse the map in unique ways. Sprint changes how Halo plays at its core. And from a lore perspective, a spartan would be moving at combat speed on any of the maps in any Halo because they are too small to safely say an opponent doesn't have eyes on you, or that sprinting headlong into an area won't put you into an ambush.
Running to your teammates is a smart play. Chasing someone incorrectly is just a bad play. Are all those teammates going to be sprinting too? No- because kills are not generated by people sprinting. Kills happen when people are standing still. Sprinting is a risky decision. It can pay off by getting players to weapons and equipment faster or it can backfire during situations like the one you just described when someone chases another player into their waiting teammates. That's called a trap my friend and it's not like sprint is the culprit of someone deciding to chase incorrectly and they end up making a bad play instead.
Okay? If your teammates aren't sprinting that just makes reaching them easier. The point being, sprint makes these plays possible in the first place, when they normally wouldn't. In Halo 1-3, you wouldn't be running away from fights as effectively, nor as easily as you could now. If you did end up falling back, the only thing you could rely upon is your ability to strongside away, not a secondary movement speed. Strongsiding was an actual strategy, with downsides to only you. Not your enemy. Your enemy had the upside, since you'd be putting your weapon to the floor, while they could chase you with theirs up, WITHOUT being hampered by a second movement speed.

Sprint is ENTIRELY the culprit of allowing someone to run so effectively, while forcing the other to chase with their weapon down, elongating confrontations and allowing people to escape in manners that shouldn't occur. It's a play that wouldn't be made if sprint wasn't there. Furthermore, sprint allows you to get out of bad situations. If you make a bad play and encounter two players in older Halos (bar CE), they'd melt you for rushing forward recklessly which is an actual bad play. You can rarely escape it. In Halo 5, if you find two players, you can always run away without fail, and escape due to the segmented nature of the maps (A result of sprint), while your opponents can either opt to run after you, or just not even bother, both of which are options which slow down the game's pace exponentially.

It doesn't matter if kills are only generated when people are standing still, sprint is forced upon you as a player in game, so you're GOING to be doing it. Be it to run away, or navigate the map. It isn't a risky decision. You press a button and have a faster speed than other players around you. It makes it easier to run from fights, run to weapons/powerups, or run to power positions/other misc. pickups. There's no risk or reward to it, given any "risk" is just nullified by how you can run away. See an enemy? Run away. Get in a bad position? Run away from it. The enemy can't follow you. You outside of your team's protection? Run away to them. There's no downside to you.
Halo is a team game. Being able to continuously run away from fights speaks volumes about the team letting that happen in the first place. Proper map control turns enemies running away into funneling them into a trap instead. If the enemy team can't outshoot my team in direct combat then the chances are extremely low that running from my team is going to somehow increase their chances of winning said match. The instant someone chooses to turn and run in a gun fight on an Arena map they're already conceding- they're giving up their position, they're showing weakness that they could not win in that fight, and unless they're trying to bait someone- they're going to be weak and on the run at that point. So they can be flushed out and/or funneled without chasing and giving up map control. Or as it often does- if it becomes apparent that they're just not on the same level then you can abandon map control in favor of my personal favorite- "search and destroy," and just hunt them down and beat them as they try to run.

Either way using sprint simply doesn't win matches in competitive gameplay. If sprint is that impactive in a game the way you're describing it then chances are quite high that the match just wasn't competitive in the first place.
Noobbrett2 wrote:
Nooga wrote:
Id rather keep sprint.
Agreed
Agreed as well- but be warned. You should careful trying to debate with these anti-sprinters... They take this stuff really... REALLY seriously and they don't take kindly to people who disagree with them. :-P
We take Halo seriously because its been THE FPS we've grown up with, learned to play at a high level, studied, and sprint changes it at a fundamental level. If you were an "OG" you'd actually know that.
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