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[Locked] The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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I also think 343i should remove sprint from halo for a few reasons. The increased movement speeds make the maps larger which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it makes remaking a map such as Midship and Heaven harder. The additional movement speed option makes map creators juggle map layouts and jump distances around. And it would be much easier to just take it out from the get go

And good god, this post is almost to 1,000 replies. I wonder if they'll add a comma.
l Jinxed I wrote:
I always make sure to recommend to KEEP sprint in Halo any chance that I get... It's been such a positive change to Halo since it first arrived with Reach and most of us are glad it's permanent now and more than just an armor mod. I see the same couple of guys ensuring this thread keeps on going and going it's a sad and selfish way to "kick a can around," over and over to try and inflate this issue to make it appear way bigger than it actually is or ever was... And no- increasing base speed is not some magical formula that will eradicate sprint or "fix," anything- it would only make Halo worse by making it more BORING like the lack of sprint always has done in much older, dated Halo titles...

The ability to choose between moving fast OR slow is both necessary and beneficial to a fast-paced FPS game like Halo. This thread is like an attention-seeking thing that has gotten way too much exposure thanks to a vocal minority that has chosen to make this one small facet of gameplay in Halo a focal point simply because it isn't their preference. You made your point already so eventually you'll have to let it go... Sprint is in Halo, has been for the past 3 triple-A Halo titles, it's DEFINITELY here to stay.

I sure wouldn't play Halo if sprint was taken out... The sheer boredom of that type of gameplay would be too much for me to put up with. As such I say just the opposite of the title of this thread- removing sprint would actually make Halo no longer feel like Halo.
I'm honestly surprised hearing this come from you.

But seeing as how you have no base for this statement, you opinion is pointless. CSGO is the top FPS game, and it doesn't have sprint. Halo formerly did not have sprint, and it was also at the top. Guess what happened. Not saying sprint is the sole reason.

Wow.
Just like the rest of the vocal minority against sprint- just write off anyone's opinion as "pointless," if it doesn't coincide with your own opinion. Halo is not CSGO. I don't think CSGO is any good anyway, but the comparison is bleak and vague at best. I wish I could say that I was surprised to hear you discounting others' opinions the way these pro sprinters have been... But coming from you I'm honestly not surprised at all. (Though telling someone to "smash [their] monitor," was actually a bit over-the-top... Even for you- the guy just doesn't agree with you about sprint so get over it already)
You don't like csgo, did we ask? I'm pretty sure he just stated its the top FPS, which it is if you check out its sales and viewership on twitch. And your claims are just as baseless as his, there's quite a bit of evidence pointing to anti sprint being a large part of the population around halo 4 that voted for no sprint in polls. suddenly they're gone and pro sprint is winning 50% of the polls and halo 5 has a very low player count. That dosn't seem like a vocal minority to me. That seems quite a bit like a main fanbase that was alienated by the devs.
Woah there, those are statistics you're tossing around that you cannot back up because they're made up... Pro sprint ALWAYS won in the polls and everyone that I've ever seen and participated in indicated that the pro sprint side won with a slam dunk.

I'm not against anti-sprinters... I do want sprint to stay, yet at the same time I understand what many of you want and would rather have in Halo... I do think that be boring and would even hurt Halo by lowering the population so naturally I just want sprint to stay in Halo games. What I do not appreciate would pro sprinters is the way they GROSSLY try to over-inflate this issue in an effort to gain more exposure than this issue genuinely deserves.

I too have issues with Halo titles- but I wait my turn and express them in respectful ways... I like to hear what others think on the issue- I do not aggressively undercut and undervalue opinions when other people simple do not agree with me (A STARK contrast to the way pro sprinters have approached this issue). I don't sit here and try to perpetuate a thread to make it grow WAY bigger than the life of an average thread in an effort to make the issue appear larger than it really is. I express my opinions peacefully in the Halo Community Feedback system and expect that others may not actually see things the way that I see them. For those things I just went over, I don't appreciate or respect how so many pro-sprinters have conducted themselves regarding this issue.
How long have you been around here for? This set of polls had come up hundreds of times by now
That's Reddit... Got any Waypoint polls to speak of?
No, if you looked at the Reddit page it was only discussing the results of polls on other sites, one on r/halo, one on teambeyond.net and one on waypoint, they were all linked, and discussed on that Reddit page.
That Reddit post lied about the data anyway.

And no, absolutely not- that, "Waypoint poll," that Reddit user misquoted wasn't actually, "linked," to a poll. It was linked to a video about a poll that apparently no longer exists... That Reddit user incorrectly quoted that poll (including the question of the poll AND the responses in that poll) and completely left out the fact that in the video (according to the YouTube narrarator) that poll was still less than a day old. That is a completely and totally bogus way to try to use data.
think ever since halo had sprint it has been going down hill.
Now don't get me wrong, I got into Halo at reach, so that is my favorite game at heart, but I do have some gripes with the introduction of sprint.
This has led the franchise to go into an awkward position and not creating very memorable gameplay or even notable.
Halo 4, the next step in the franchise made a more CallofDuty like game, let's not lie to ourselves, it was COD. And I like COD, but it shouldn't be in halo.
Listen sprint isn't an inherently bad mechanic. This is not what this about. It's about why HALO should not have sprint because HALO is a very different game, let me explain.

Halo is a bear bones game, it's built to be simple, becuase when you and I enter the halo arena, we are equals. It comes down to map control, grenades, and proper shooting. halo is construted of a triangle of 3 things, the devs call it the halo triangle. It's made of grenades, MeLee, and guns.
You should always be able to do any of those things at anytime to dispose of your enemies.
But with halo 5 and the "enhanced mobility" you have to put so many more things in the equation.
You have sprinting, sliding, boosting, clamber, groundpound, Spartan charge. It's too much

Now you could say, that is just more to think about, but it becomes random, and unpredictable, and there's no way to create a classic Playlist because the weapons are scaled to a quick environment and most gun fights are now mid to long range, so CQB has been totally erased from the question.

So as you can see, it's not that halo 5's engine is bad. But instead its transformed into a whole other game. It's NOT HALO. the fact that Sprint is in halo and has caused this much stirring just says why this was not a good idea. It's doing numbers on the community. And we just want a game where old and new fans can come together and play a game that we love. That's all.
Sprint stays
OG Nick wrote:
Yeah obviously pal... But you clearly went there as a jab in your previous post anyway.
I totally did, because you used that point as a reinforcement for your argument, then tried it again with the MCC. When you called OG Nick arrogant, it really did just show how much self-awareness you lack in regards to that, especially by having waved your time played around twice with two separate games, when it means little in the grand scheme of knowing how a game actually operates with certain mechanics. Doesn't make my argument weak in turn, just exposes the flaws in yours.
At best you baited me... All I did was entertain you on the path you took this down. You brought up my days played as a jab and I sarcastically added to it as a reply. That's because your argument has degraded
from logical opinions to something like, "Nu uh!!! You're wrong and I'M RIGHT Because I say so!" If you don't wanna give fine be right in your own mind... But don't try to incorrectly summarize my points or tell me I'm flat out wrong based upon your feelings on the matter.
At best, you ran away. I gave you actual well thought out gameplay issues sprint causes, and yet, you ignored them. You didn't have time to "data mine" for two pages, but had enough time to stat check people. Every single time you post, you deflect gameplay issues on the bases of "I've spent my whole life on this game" which is not only laughable, but the arrogance it oozes is palpable. I don't bother with this site enough to continue getting replies about how smart you are about Halo when you don't even come up with a decent reply to any gameplay detriments I have pointed out in relation to sprint.
"Stat check people"? Let it go already- you're the one who tried to pull the "OG," card in an oblique and vague way to try and discount pro sprinters in the first place. All I said was that I have about double the "OG," Halo 2 games you have played because you can't just assume since you're "OG," you can discount pro sprinters. And if I spent "my whole life," on this game as your jab indicates you wouldn't been too far behind me- you got about 2/3rds of your life on Halo in that case and you were the one who literally tried to use your "OG experience," to discount pro sprinters in the first place yet now you flip and try to get on me for "checking," you on that. The irony in that is palpable but the point remains that you aren't any more "OG," than I am and being an, "OG," Halo player does NOT make you more inclined to want sprint to either stay or go.

I didn't bring up my time played to discount anyone for their opinion like you did regarding your "OG status," just posts before that- I brought it up as a means to explain that in my experience on the game sprint just did not have the same (detrimental) impact that the other person seemed to have with it. I recognized that the other person I was discussing the issue with may have had a different experience than me on the game, though I still don't understand how sprint could have been that impactive to gameplay the way they described it to me... That's a monumental difference to your argument just posts earlier were you tried to completely discount someone who said they liked sprint with your self proclaimed, "OG," status. Bret had said he wanted to keep sprint and your reply to Bret ended with "... If you were an 'OG' you'd actually know that," as you literally tried to discount his pro sprint opinion with your "OG moniker," or whatever you try to call it now... You know what else, you said it twice that, "middle grounds satisfy no one," so I have no idea why I'm even trying to talk to someone that is self-admittedly completely incapable of compromising.
OG Nick wrote:
I think we somehow just had different experiences in Arena but nonetheless I do understand objective game design and furthermore I understood the points you've made here about sprint- Overall I don't agree with you when it comes to sprint but as I've stated before that doesn't make you wrong or me right either. I didn't expect you to have an epiphany by debating this issue with me and/or change your mind nor did you... But I learned a little more about why people want to remove sprint so darn bad and hopefully you might have learned an it about why people want to keep it.
I haven't learned anything about why people want to keep it past, people want to be able to escape easily, and be punished less. :P Oh, and "feel like Spartans", despite any Halo game's representation of a Spartan being far from how they're represented in lore, including Halo 5's.
Well then at least I've learned a bit here tonight then... My points went deeper than "feel like Spartans," and I certainly do not agree that sprint should stay to help people escape or be punished less... If that's what you think it does then I understand why you don't like sprint. I just don't see sprint having that impact on games. I see it as enabling players with the choice to move at two speeds. I think sprint is a risk/reward action that actually results in much punishment by the sprinter if used with poor judgement... Anyway now I'm getting into repeating myself- I laid down many more point and I don't want to perpetuate this with you but at the same you sort of summarized my points tonight wrong there so just briefly clarifying before we part ways on the topic at this point.
Day 343, still waiting on response to arguments. Losing hope. Send aid soon.
Jeez man... You need to let it go just a bit and bring it down a notch. This is one small facet of gameplay. Whatever arguments you may have posted are not some sort of thesis. Threads come and go- they have a lifespan. So whatever you posted will be gone-
its not like it's etched in stone and all who pass by these forums must read and respond before they go. Either way what you said to me, I responded to. What you may have said before I got to the thread, I do not know or care tbh.
This has to be the most laughably pretentious cover for dodging an argument I have ever beheld on an internet forum. You want a real response? Sorry, bro. We are but grains of sand on the great beach that is the universe. Life is fleeting; forum posts are temporary. They will be lost in the ebb and flow of the forum argument. WOOOAAAAAH.
OG Nick wrote:
I think we somehow just had different experiences in Arena but nonetheless I do understand objective game design and furthermore I understood the points you've made here about sprint- Overall I don't agree with you when it comes to sprint but as I've stated before that doesn't make you wrong or me right either. I didn't expect you to have an epiphany by debating this issue with me and/or change your mind nor did you... But I learned a little more about why people want to remove sprint so darn bad and hopefully you might have learned an it about why people want to keep it.
I haven't learned anything about why people want to keep it past, people want to be able to escape easily, and be punished less. :P Oh, and "feel like Spartans", despite any Halo game's representation of a Spartan being far from how they're represented in lore, including Halo 5's.
Well then at least I've learned a bit here tonight then... My points went deeper than "feel like Spartans," and I certainly do not agree that sprint should stay to help people escape or be punished less... If that's what you think it does then I understand why you don't like sprint. I just don't see sprint having that impact on games. I see it as enabling players with the choice to move at two speeds. I think sprint is a risk/reward action that actually results in much punishment by the sprinter if used with poor judgement... Anyway now I'm getting into repeating myself- I laid down many more point and I don't want to perpetuate this with you but at the same you sort of summarized my points tonight wrong there so just briefly clarifying before we part ways on the topic at this point.
Day 343, still waiting on response to arguments. Losing hope. Send aid soon.
Jeez man... You need to let it go just a bit and bring it down a notch. This is one small facet of gameplay. Whatever arguments you may have posted are not some sort of thesis. Threads come and go- they have a lifespan. So whatever you posted will be gone-
its not like it's etched in stone and all who pass by these forums must read and respond before they go. Either way what you said to me, I responded to. What you may have said before I got to the thread, I do not know or care tbh.
This has to be the most laughably pretentious cover for dodging an argument I have ever beheld on an internet forum. You want a real response? Sorry, bro. We are but grains of sand on the great beach that is the universe. Life is fleeting; forum posts are temporary. They will be lost in the ebb and flow of the forum argument. WOOOAAAAAH.
There's no cover and there's no dodging going on here- That guy is trying to say that I need to now go backwards in this thread and find an argument he put up here before I even got to this thread... No I don't need to do that- what he may or may not have posted then didn't have anything to do with me. I have actually responded to any points he posted to directly to me so sorry but no, there was no dodging taking place here whatsoever...

My main issue is that no one can try to state that I'm "wrong," because I want to keep sprint anymore than I can try to claim the opposite. It's a subjective opinion to prefer to keep sprint. And opinions from gamers do matter- it's not like people need empirical evidence to claim why they want to keep sprint. Why would 343i have the Halo Community Feedback (HCF) program if they didn't value our opinions on the game?? So to the anti-sprinters here that have tried to claim my opinion is worthless on the grounds that they think they're "more right," in their opinions about sprint- just stop it. That's now how you win a debate anyway, if that's your intention (which based upon the aggressive way that my pro sprint views have been received here that's what the anti-sprint crowd actually wants to do).

Another problem with this thread has been the over inflation of this issue- sprint is not as paramount of an issue in Halo as many people have tried to portray it here... As demonstrated by user after user who has posted asking for this thread to just go away. I'm not going to undermine it and state that it's not important at all- but it's clearly more important to some people than it is to others and it's not as key of an issue across the board as the anti-sprinters in this thread would lead you to believe...

Additionally the person you just quoted told me twice earlier that "middle grounds satisfy no one," so even if I wanted to- what would even be the point of trying to go back through their historical posts in this thread to try and debate with them about something they didn't even say to me in the first place? He already told me that he will not compromise at all on this issue anyway.

Perhaps the worse issue of all has been the misuse and falsification of data from polls to try and make it look like more people don't like sprint then there actually are. The Reddit user in this post incorrectly quotes a poll from Waypoint by completely changing the question asked in the poll AND the answers to that poll when they reference it and they do not even acknowledge that the poll referenced was less than a day old... They link a video about the poll instead of the poll itself and now people try to flaunt that as evidence that somehow more people want sprint removed? Absolutely not...
I don't mind keeping sprint enabled
l Jinxed I wrote:
I always make sure to recommend to KEEP sprint in Halo any chance that I get... It's been such a positive change to Halo since it first arrived with Reach and most of us are glad it's permanent now and more than just an armor mod. I see the same couple of guys ensuring this thread keeps on going and going it's a sad and selfish way to "kick a can around," over and over to try and inflate this issue to make it appear way bigger than it actually is or ever was... And no- increasing base speed is not some magical formula that will eradicate sprint or "fix," anything- it would only make Halo worse by making it more BORING like the lack of sprint always has done in much older, dated Halo titles...

The ability to choose between moving fast OR slow is both necessary and beneficial to a fast-paced FPS game like Halo. This thread is like an attention-seeking thing that has gotten way too much exposure thanks to a vocal minority that has chosen to make this one small facet of gameplay in Halo a focal point simply because it isn't their preference. You made your point already so eventually you'll have to let it go... Sprint is in Halo, has been for the past 3 triple-A Halo titles, it's DEFINITELY here to stay.

I sure wouldn't play Halo if sprint was taken out... The sheer boredom of that type of gameplay would be too much for me to put up with. As such I say just the opposite of the title of this thread- removing sprint would actually make Halo no longer feel like Halo.
I'm honestly surprised hearing this come from you.

But seeing as how you have no base for this statement, you opinion is pointless. CSGO is the top FPS game, and it doesn't have sprint. Halo formerly did not have sprint, and it was also at the top. Guess what happened. Not saying sprint is the sole reason.

Wow.
Just like the rest of the vocal minority against sprint- just write off anyone's opinion as "pointless," if it doesn't coincide with your own opinion. Halo is not CSGO. I don't think CSGO is any good anyway, but the comparison is bleak and vague at best. I wish I could say that I was surprised to hear you discounting others' opinions the way these pro sprinters have been... But coming from you I'm honestly not surprised at all. (Though telling someone to "smash [their] monitor," was actually a bit over-the-top... Even for you- the guy just doesn't agree with you about sprint so get over it already)
You don't like csgo, did we ask? I'm pretty sure he just stated its the top FPS, which it is if you check out its sales and viewership on twitch. And your claims are just as baseless as his, there's quite a bit of evidence pointing to anti sprint being a large part of the population around halo 4 that voted for no sprint in polls. suddenly they're gone and pro sprint is winning 50% of the polls and halo 5 has a very low player count. That dosn't seem like a vocal minority to me. That seems quite a bit like a main fanbase that was alienated by the devs.
Woah there, those are statistics you're tossing around that you cannot back up because they're made up... Pro sprint ALWAYS won in the polls and everyone that I've ever seen and participated in indicated that the pro sprint side won with a slam dunk.

I'm not against anti-sprinters... I do want sprint to stay, yet at the same time I understand what many of you want and would rather have in Halo... I do think that be boring and would even hurt Halo by lowering the population so naturally I just want sprint to stay in Halo games. What I do not appreciate would pro sprinters is the way they GROSSLY try to over-inflate this issue in an effort to gain more exposure than this issue genuinely deserves.

I too have issues with Halo titles- but I wait my turn and express them in respectful ways... I like to hear what others think on the issue- I do not aggressively undercut and undervalue opinions when other people simple do not agree with me (A STARK contrast to the way pro sprinters have approached this issue). I don't sit here and try to perpetuate a thread to make it grow WAY bigger than the life of an average thread in an effort to make the issue appear larger than it really is. I express my opinions peacefully in the Halo Community Feedback system and expect that others may not actually see things the way that I see them. For those things I just went over, I don't appreciate or respect how so many pro-sprinters have conducted themselves regarding this issue.
How long have you been around here for? This set of polls had come up hundreds of times by now
That's Reddit... Got any Waypoint polls to speak of?
No, if you looked at the Reddit page it was only discussing the results of polls on other sites, one on r/halo, one on teambeyond.net and one on waypoint, they were all linked, and discussed on that Reddit page.
That Reddit post lied about the data anyway.

And no, absolutely not- that, "Waypoint poll," that Reddit user misquoted wasn't actually, "linked," to a poll. It was linked to a video about a poll that apparently no longer exists... That Reddit user incorrectly quoted that poll (including the question of the poll AND the responses in that poll) and completely left out the fact that in the video (according to the YouTube narrarator) that poll was still less than a day old. That is a completely and totally bogus way to try to use data.
Seriously, why is anyone still arguing with this guy? Why waste time with someone that isn't even swayed by proof?

Sin, you're not helping the pro-sprint argument. In fact, you're doing it a disservice by not accepting basic facts that are agreed upon and accepted by both sides. There actually are pro-sprinters that make informed arguments and people like you make their efforts go to waste by filling the thread with nonsense and willful ignorance. Open your mind a bit, it could help you and others going forward.
Czipps wrote:
I don't mind keeping sprint enabled
Right? If people don't like it, they don't have to use it
Here we go again
Czipps wrote:
I don't mind keeping sprint enabled
Right? If people don't like it, they don't have to use it
untrue. Players are punished for not sprinting
This post has been edited by a moderator. Do not make non-constructive posts.

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when you get triggered by running because you cant run irl
Aha! I wish you could have posted a meme for that...
Czipps wrote:
I don't mind keeping sprint enabled
Right? If people don't like it, they don't have to use it
But that's not how it works. Other people will use it putting the people choosing not to sprint at a dis advantage
l Jinxed I wrote:
l Jinxed I wrote:
l Jinxed I wrote:
I always make sure to recommend to KEEP sprint in Halo any chance that I get... It's been such a positive change to Halo since it first arrived with Reach and most of us are glad it's permanent now and more than just an armor mod. I see the same couple of guys ensuring this thread keeps on going and going it's a sad and selfish way to "kick a can around," over and over to try and inflate this issue to make it appear way bigger than it actually is or ever was... And no- increasing base speed is not some magical formula that will eradicate sprint or "fix," anything- it would only make Halo worse by making it more BORING like the lack of sprint always has done in much older, dated Halo titles...

The ability to choose between moving fast OR slow is both necessary and beneficial to a fast-paced FPS game like Halo. This thread is like an attention-seeking thing that has gotten way too much exposure thanks to a vocal minority that has chosen to make this one small facet of gameplay in Halo a focal point simply because it isn't their preference. You made your point already so eventually you'll have to let it go... Sprint is in Halo, has been for the past 3 triple-A Halo titles, it's DEFINITELY here to stay.

I sure wouldn't play Halo if sprint was taken out... The sheer boredom of that type of gameplay would be too much for me to put up with. As such I say just the opposite of the title of this thread- removing sprint would actually make Halo no longer feel like Halo.
I'm honestly surprised hearing this come from you.

But seeing as how you have no base for this statement, you opinion is pointless. CSGO is the top FPS game, and it doesn't have sprint. Halo formerly did not have sprint, and it was also at the top. Guess what happened. Not saying sprint is the sole reason.

Wow.
Just like the rest of the vocal minority against sprint- just write off anyone's opinion as "pointless," if it doesn't coincide with your own opinion. Halo is not CSGO. I don't think CSGO is any good anyway, but the comparison is bleak and vague at best. I wish I could say that I was surprised to hear you discounting others' opinions the way these pro sprinters have been... But coming from you I'm honestly not surprised at all. (Though telling someone to "smash [their] monitor," was actually a bit over-the-top... Even for you- the guy just doesn't agree with you about sprint so get over it already)
Your opinion for the bolded statement was pointless. Did you show proof? No. Did you explain your reasoning? No. Halo 3 was the most successful game in the franchise, and Halo 5 is the no where close to that. H3 did not need sprint, just a speed increase. ZBNS Reach was amazing, and it did not feature sprint. CE, the game with the most depth in the franchise, did not feature sprint, and people still organize LAN parties. Shadowrun was a very competitive FPS, it did not feature sprint. Quake is faster than every game I just listed, it did not feature sprint. Sprint is not a necessity. Until you can think of a gameplay reason to justify having sprint, people will still complain about it. The problem is, you can't. 343i can't even, a post from Quinn Del Hoyo on TB proves this.

You mean the guy who thinks that we don't want a speed increase after removing sprint? If someone legitimately thinks that, then yes, they should smash their monitor. This is a textbook example of ignorance. If I need to explain why he's wrong to him, I doubt he's old enough to be on the internet.
Reach did have sprint, but it was armor ability.
And Reach was the game that started this downward spiral, and I said ZBNS Reach, the updated version with no bloom and faster BMS with no abilities (MLG).
Speaking of opinions that's really all you come with either... "Oh Reach started the downward spiral..." yet Halo is STILL the game that YOU play the most. And yet STILL Halo has been thriving- in retrospect this "downward spiral," you're speaking about is absolutely nothing more than your mere opinion... I'm normally all for hearing opinions but you've been so anti-opinions it's just funny to hear about how many opinions you're also full of...

And you know what? For someone whose supposedly so anti-sprint- I've seen you use sprint plenty of times. I never once heard you say ANYTHING bad about sprint- and you get heated pretty easily and triggered by the slightest of things in game. Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your opinion but it's hard to take you seriously when you dismiss other people's opinions as "pointless," ONLY when they aren't flush with your opinions.
Is Halo at the top? Did HR, H4, and H5 beat H3 in sales? These are not opinions. Halo 5 is not a successful game when compared to the first 3. An opinion is not a fact, and it should be clear to someone like you that after Reach, Halo stopped competing. Yes, I play H5. I enjoy it actually, when people stop using autos. My biggest issue with H5 is sprint and autos, and these can be easily fixed.

Surprising, isn't it? Using a mechanic that allows you to move around the map faster than the turtle speeds of the BMS? Who would have thought.

Not sure what you mean, I've always been anti sprint, and I've just recently changed my GT.
when you get triggered by running because you cant run irl
I don't like sprint, but this made me laugh. Well played.
People won't shut up about sprint in halo but microtransactions and late as all hell content gets a free pass. But that's none of my business.
*Sigh*
No sprint
Zr0Fear v2 wrote:
OP, it's 2016. In 2016, players expect devs to not care about what's good for the game.
What about tom? He said im a dev my names tom and i really care about whats good for this game im currently working on in 2016
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