Skip to main content

Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 647
  4. 648
  5. 649
  6. 650
  7. 651
  8. ...
  9. 840
I actually don't want a drastically increased Base movement speed,I want h3a as an experiment. This would have to actually work obviously, unlike Mcc which still has fits where I have to reboot the game 3 times in a row, just so it's stops saying downloading latest matchmaking data and actually let's me in a game. I think the franchise Is maybe done for anyway it will be a gears size game from now on because they drove us to other games.
I dont understand why there still needs to be a discussion about sprint in halo. It single handedly ruined halo from Reach to now. And thank you 343 for adding clamber. Stretch out the maps and remove trick jumps. Is there anything else we can think of that we'd like 343 to reinvent the wheel on?
The Halo 5 arena maps are terrible sources to reference. There is a reason Overgrowth, Riptide, Molten, and more are not played in HCS at all. They're even worse maps than the original ones.

Try crossing Truth's bottom level diagonally compared to midship. Truth is a super stretched flat wasteland, that is never smart to enter. Why do you think the weapons aren't the same? They added fuel rod and hydra because nobody wants to go towards the middle of the map. It isn't smart. HCS ignores hydra bottom middle completely. That was not the case in H2 for shotgun.

pajama dad wrote:
Exactly. His reasons for why sprint should not be in the game are the almost exact same reasons why they should be in the game(excluding his comment about lockout. ). I enjoy the gameplay reasons he listed. to be specific. Those gameplay things he listed benefit me. I do well when those are n the game. Obviously he does not or at least doesn't want to. I have said a few times n this thread and have yet to see much of anything else. People no matter what they are arguing for on this thread or this site or any other gaming site, argue for something because it helps their play. What THEY like. and people argue against game mechanics(guns, maps whatever) because it hurts them. That is what it boils down to. Whats good and bad is strictly opinion and I have not seen anything in this thread that has proven otherwise.
I provided evidence of how gameplay is negatively impacted by sprint, I didn't mention opinions.
You're logic here is saying, you like sprint for the complications I described...
That doesn't mean it should be in the game. For me to be wrong, you have to prove me wrong,
and that isn't possible with the argument "I like it" which you have just thrown down.
My point is your examples are opinion. Your view is that the "Evidence" negatively impacted sprint is strictly opinion. In my view of the very same examples, I see them as positive on gameplay. Again, this is my opinion. You are stating your opinion as if its fact when it is not. It is just your view and the view of others. I can not prove that you are wrong for your opinion. However, if you do not know the difference between opinion and fact there is no point in having a discussion because you will simply dismiss anybody's view. If you want to extend this to what actually constitutes a fact vs what is opinion I will gladly do so as well. I can give you a link to a definition of a fact and an opinion if needed.
here is one example:
Fact: Halo 5 has sprint in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game.
I think the "balancing of guns" makes Halo 5 feel less like Halo than the sprint. I'm a fan of neither.
The gun balance is the best gift Halo 5 has in my opinion. Making 20+ guns useful at proper distance is no easy feat. Because of the distance control demand with each weapon it really brings a unique strategy to each weapon and that is awesome. Plus in Halo 5 99.5% of all my deaths are my own fault. That is also a very important fact for an FPS and keeps it's fair play and purity.
I personally think it's more strange that some people want to remove sprint from campaign but keep it in MP? If anything when I am playing the Campaign with my friend or my son for the 14th time I want to sprint through all the soft patches. We already know what it looks like and whats next. To be honest if they kept Armor Lock for Reach in the Campaign only but kept it out of MP it would have improved game flow in a massive way. Armor Lock was the 2nd worst ability in the history of multi-player. I still give worst FPS to COD's MW Martyrdome ability which released a nade from your bum when you died whether if you had one in your cache or not.
Your view is that the "Evidence" negatively impacted sprint is strictly opinion. In my view of the very same examples, I seem them as positive on gameplay. Again, this is my opinion. You are stating your opinion as if its fact when it is not. It is just your view and the view of others. I can not prove that you are wrong for your opinion. However, if you do not know the difference between opinion and fact there is no point in having a discussion because you will simply dismiss anybody's view. If you want to extend this to what actually constitutes a fact vs what is opinion I will gladly do so as well. I can give you a link to a definition of a fact and an opinion if needed.
here is one example:
Fact: Halo 5 has sprint in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game.
First off, your condescending tone doesn't get you anywhere. I'm well aware of the definitions.
Perhaps I should refer you to a logic class?
Once you start saying "that is just your opinion" you essentially lose all credibility/traction in an argument.

For example, maps are over scaled to accommodate faster movement speeds and timing, leaving large "no man lands."
That is not just my opinion, that is a factual occurrence. Again, refer Truth to Midship.You will be astonished if you examine these freshly in game.
That DOES in turn, ruin gameplay, because you are essentially required to be sprinting/ using the increased player speed options, which forces you to put your gun down and run into situations unprepared. If your gun is down, you are not ready for engagements, and therefore it is not competitive. (Halo is a competitive arena shooter)
The argument "you don't HAVE to sprint, nobody is forcing you" may be true to a minuscule degree, but if maps are then scaled up, and you are not using the fastest movement speed to cross those areas, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to the people who ARE sprinting. You are in wide open areas, and without cover, are easily shot and killed. If you are heading for a power weapon, the person sprinting will get there first, which means again, sprint or lose.

Do you see how that makes sense? That is not an opinion, it cannot be construed as such. It is evaluation.
BTW all 3 things you listed are indeed FACTS. Halo 5 is both positively and negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Also, like I've stated multiple times, you don't bring anything to the conversation by simply trying to discredit me.
You didn't provide evidence against me, you just disregarded my statements to opinion.

Explain how scaled up maps are good things. They are only scaled up to accommodate sprint remember, so if sprint was gone, the maps would be small again. This means poor map design is a direct result of sprint. Therefore it should be eliminated.
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
Gaunt1et 5 wrote:
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
Lowest number in sales hurts the "one of the best gameplay of all time"
STOMPDOWN wrote:
I dont understand why there still needs to be a discussion about sprint in halo. It single handedly ruined halo from Reach to now. And thank you 343 for adding clamber. Stretch out the maps and remove trick jumps. Is there anything else we can think of that we'd like 343 to reinvent the wheel on?
What are you talking about? I've been hoping for a clamber mechanic since Halo 3! Clamber is so useful that it frustrated me so much back in Halo 3 when I couldn't get on a platform because it was an inch taller than me. Its so damn annoying when that happens. Clamber literally keeps my momentum when I move and I honestly hate breaking my momentum when moving towards battle.
Gaunt1et 5 wrote:
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
Lowest number in sales hurts the "one of the best gameplay of all time"
yea but it wasn't because of sprint it was becuase of the lack of content, Halo 5 was missing so many things when it first came out.
Gaunt1et 5 wrote:
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
One of the oldest arguments in this thread that's never been proven and it's still being used. Map sizes have been adjusted, along with cover spacing and whatever other adjustments they've done to accommodate sprint. The resultant maps are part of what sets the pace of the game, it isn't sprint "bringing it up". Period. If the maps had been made 300% larger, the pace would slow down as a result of having to travel farther to get to key areas and engagement zones. The pace of the game is set by a lot more factors than just sprint alone and every one of those factors is determined by, tested by and tweaked by the devs during development in order to achieve a pace that the devs are seeking. Sprint has to be included in determining the pace, but only if it's included in the game. It. Is. Not. Required. In order to set the pace or "bring it up". That can be done in a multitude of other ways.

I've also played the older games, a lot, and I could just as easily say that Halo 2 had some of the best MP gameplay of all time. I have somewhere over 8.5k online games of H2 logged, more than any other Halo game I've played. It would just as honestly be a let down if sprint remained, for those who "hate" it.

The way I see it, the decision to add sprint was one of the stupidest ones ever made concerning Halo. Not because I "hate" sprint, per se, nor because I have something against those who love it, but because of how much of an impact it has on gameplay. Such a small mechanical adjustment to have such a substantial impact on gameplay... how could anyone not have realized that those who like it would probably "love it" and those who dislike it would probably "hate it" is beyond me, unless they just never bothered to have game testers try it out.
Your view is that the "Evidence" negatively impacted sprint is strictly opinion. In my view of the very same examples, I seem them as positive on gameplay. Again, this is my opinion. You are stating your opinion as if its fact when it is not. It is just your view and the view of others. I can not prove that you are wrong for your opinion. However, if you do not know the difference between opinion and fact there is no point in having a discussion because you will simply dismiss anybody's view. If you want to extend this to what actually constitutes a fact vs what is opinion I will gladly do so as well. I can give you a link to a definition of a fact and an opinion if needed.
here is one example:
Fact: Halo 5 has sprint in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game.
First off, your condescending tone doesn't get you anywhere. I'm well aware of the definitions.
Perhaps I should refer you to a logic class?
Once you start saying "that is just your opinion" you essentially lose all credibility/traction in an argument.

For example, maps are over scaled to accommodate faster movement speeds and timing, leaving large "no man lands."
That is not just my opinion, that is a factual occurrence. Again, refer Truth to Midship.You will be astonished if you examine these freshly in game.
That DOES in turn, ruin gameplay, because you are essentially required to be sprinting/ using the increased player speed options, which forces you to put your gun down and run into situations unprepared. If your gun is down, you are not ready for engagements, and therefore it is not competitive. (Halo is a competitive arena shooter)
The argument "you don't HAVE to sprint, nobody is forcing you" may be true to a minuscule degree, but if maps are then scaled up, and you are not using the fastest movement speed to cross those areas, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to the people who ARE sprinting. You are in wide open areas, and without cover, are easily shot and killed. If you are heading for a power weapon, the person sprinting will get there first, which means again, sprint or lose.

Do you see how that makes sense? That is not an opinion, it cannot be construed as such. It is evaluation.
BTW all 3 things you listed are indeed FACTS. Halo 5 is both positively and negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Also, like I've stated multiple times, you don't bring anything to the conversation by simply trying to discredit me.
You didn't provide evidence against me, you just disregarded my statements to opinion.

Explain how scaled up maps are good things. They are only scaled up to accommodate sprint remember, so if sprint was gone, the maps would be small again. This means poor map design is a direct result of sprint. Therefore it should be eliminated.
"For example, maps are over scaled to accommodate faster movement speeds and timing, leaving large "no man lands."
That is not just my opinion, that is a factual occurrence." This is indeed fact. I never disputed that. what I did dispute is your claim that it is bad for gameplay. Which is strictly your opinion.
Now this "That DOES in turn, ruin gameplay" is again strictly your opinion. Which you then go to explain why. I do not disagree what the game more or less forces you to do. However. Whether it ruins the game or improves the game is still matter of opinion.
Whether scaled up maps are good or bad are also a matter of opinion. Whats good or bad no matter the mechanic or weapon is a matter of opinion. We both know what the game mechanics do. Nobody is disputing what they do from a gameplay perspective. its just you think its bad while I think its good. Any game mechanic, ANY of Them, may be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on two things- Situation and playstyle. I will fully admit I benefit from larger maps I consistently do better than I do on smaller maps. Does that make big maps better? for me yes. But that doesn't make it fact. Forcing a player to choose between sprinting and walking benefits me and my playstyle. But that doesn't make it fact. Th

As far as the statements :
"Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game."
"Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game."

Yes both are indeed facts as statements. However the different views are indeed opinions. So if you really want to argue semantics we can do that too. But I really have no quarrel with you per say. So there is no point in that. What you still don't seem to be willing to accept is what is good or bad in Halo when it comes to game mechanics is still opinion. What the majority opinion is remains to be seen.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
When you look at the ever plummeting population and popularity of halo from reach on to H5, you cant help but to look at the common denominators. Sprint and armor abilities are the top offenders.

Unfortunately for this franchise and classic trilogy fans, sprint is here to stay among other cancers. Lets not forget, Frankie said they hired people that hated halo and wanted to make it better. Well here is their best fellas!

At what point does a company stop trying to jumble and hide numbers from their fans in order to appear popular, or pull their head out of the sand, and finally see what they have done is not working? They either don't know or don't give a crap. I'd prefer to believe the latter because the former would imply they're incompetent beyond belief.

The roughly 20k current players is the approval crowd and its safe to say half of them are TRYING to enjoy the game and/or get their moneys worth by playing it. The missing 250k+ players are the ones 343 ignored.

Take care
Your view is that the "Evidence" negatively impacted sprint is strictly opinion. In my view of the very same examples, I seem them as positive on gameplay. Again, this is my opinion. You are stating your opinion as if its fact when it is not. It is just your view and the view of others. I can not prove that you are wrong for your opinion. However, if you do not know the difference between opinion and fact there is no point in having a discussion because you will simply dismiss anybody's view. If you want to extend this to what actually constitutes a fact vs what is opinion I will gladly do so as well. I can give you a link to a definition of a fact and an opinion if needed.
here is one example:
Fact: Halo 5 has sprint in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game.
First off, your condescending tone doesn't get you anywhere. I'm well aware of the definitions.
Perhaps I should refer you to a logic class?
Once you start saying "that is just your opinion" you essentially lose all credibility/traction in an argument.

For example, maps are over scaled to accommodate faster movement speeds and timing, leaving large "no man lands."
That is not just my opinion, that is a factual occurrence. Again, refer Truth to Midship.You will be astonished if you examine these freshly in game.
That DOES in turn, ruin gameplay, because you are essentially required to be sprinting/ using the increased player speed options, which forces you to put your gun down and run into situations unprepared. If your gun is down, you are not ready for engagements, and therefore it is not competitive. (Halo is a competitive arena shooter)
The argument "you don't HAVE to sprint, nobody is forcing you" may be true to a minuscule degree, but if maps are then scaled up, and you are not using the fastest movement speed to cross those areas, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to the people who ARE sprinting. You are in wide open areas, and without cover, are easily shot and killed. If you are heading for a power weapon, the person sprinting will get there first, which means again, sprint or lose.

Do you see how that makes sense? That is not an opinion, it cannot be construed as such. It is evaluation.
BTW all 3 things you listed are indeed FACTS. Halo 5 is both positively and negatively viewed because sprint is in the game.
Also, like I've stated multiple times, you don't bring anything to the conversation by simply trying to discredit me.
You didn't provide evidence against me, you just disregarded my statements to opinion.

Explain how scaled up maps are good things. They are only scaled up to accommodate sprint remember, so if sprint was gone, the maps would be small again. This means poor map design is a direct result of sprint. Therefore it should be eliminated.
"For example, maps are over scaled to accommodate faster movement speeds and timing, leaving large "no man lands."
That is not just my opinion, that is a factual occurrence." This is indeed fact. I never disputed that. what I did dispute is your claim that it is bad for gameplay. Which is strictly your opinion.
Now this "That DOES in turn, ruin gameplay" is again strictly your opinion. Which you then go to explain why. I do not disagree what the game more or less forces you to do. However. Whether it ruins the game or improves the game is still matter of opinion.
Whether scaled up maps are good or bad are also a matter of opinion. Whats good or bad no matter the mechanic or weapon is a matter of opinion. We both know what the game mechanics do. Nobody is disputing what they do from a gameplay perspective. its just you think its bad while I think its good. Any game mechanic, ANY of Them, may be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on two things- Situation and playstyle. I will fully admit I benefit from larger maps I consistently do better than I do on smaller maps. Does that make big maps better? for me yes. But that doesn't make it fact. Forcing a player to choose between sprinting and walking benefits me and my playstyle. But that doesn't make it fact. Th

As far as the statements :
"Opinion: Halo 5 is is negatively viewed because sprint is in the game."
"Opinion: Halo 5 is positively viewed because sprint is in the game."

Yes both are indeed facts as statements. However the different views are indeed opinions. So if you really want to argue semantics we can do that too. But I really have no quarrel with you per say. So there is no point in that. What you still don't seem to be willing to accept is what is good or bad in Halo when it comes to game mechanics is still opinion. What the majority opinion is remains to be seen.
Absolutely -Yoinking!- Not. THE Opinions are NOT mutual. MORE people KNOW for a FACT that Sprint Completely Breaks any Graceful balance that the game used to have. Why don't you actually read through this thread? See how many likes each Crucifying Sprint comment gets. The defence crew doesnt get that. The sprint defence are a vocal minority that continues to shrink every time Someone on here Finally obtains a grasp on proper Halo Environmental and Mechanical design. Halo 5's actual Population is a horrendous Joke to prove that. This argument is not even sided. Period.
Gaunt1et 5 wrote:
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
Halo 5 matches don't end any quicker than Halo 3 matches, nor are kills obtained faster. In fact, it's about the same pace, if not slower. The speed at which you move around doesn't dictate the pace of a Halo game. There are many, many other factors like map design, TTK, spawns, etc. Halo CE matches end about two to three times quicker than every Halo game after it and sprint doesn't exist in that game.
C0RRuPTT wrote:
HiIAmMoot wrote:
tsassi wrote:
C0RRuPTT wrote:
GED2208 wrote:
Think I'd rather play a "new" classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don't like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren't new and we've played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
Great idea, I believe this would be very successful. Create a game that that is full of quality content from release like Halo 3, to include ranks, oddball, KoTH, functioning theater, solid social playlists, solid-Chief focused campaign, small (Warlock sized) maps to accompany large Blood Gulch style maps, working file share, splitscreen, playable elites and most importantly gameplay with "no" sprint. All features Halo 3 had day ONE! Also, include dedicated servers. They're awesome in H5!
While your opinion of Warlock sized maps being in H3 from the beginning is wrong, and MLG did have a bit of a request to use Foundry to make maps more to their liking.As a note, Snowbound is considered medium-large..
And as you may note, for dev made maps, they had to up BMS by 10%.

It's not the first time it's been mentioned but I hope these links will finally convince that the past is looked at much more completely than the presents' "parts".
I know Warlock wasn't. I was using it as an example. I'm also not talking about MLG, but I am talking about Halo 3's massive amount of amazing content from launch. Newer games have failed to match.
The Halo 5 arena maps are terrible sources to reference. There is a reason Overgrowth, Riptide, Molten, and more are not played in HCS at all. They're even worse maps than the original ones.

Try crossing Truth's bottom level diagonally compared to midship. Truth is a super stretched flat wasteland, that is never smart to enter. Why do you think the weapons aren't the same? They added fuel rod and hydra because nobody wants to go towards the middle of the map. It isn't smart. HCS ignores hydra bottom middle completely. That was not the case in H2 for shotgun.

pajama dad wrote:
Exactly. His reasons for why sprint should not be in the game are the almost exact same reasons why they should be in the game(excluding his comment about lockout. ). I enjoy the gameplay reasons he listed. to be specific. Those gameplay things he listed benefit me. I do well when those are n the game. Obviously he does not or at least doesn't want to. I have said a few times n this thread and have yet to see much of anything else. People no matter what they are arguing for on this thread or this site or any other gaming site, argue for something because it helps their play. What THEY like. and people argue against game mechanics(guns, maps whatever) because it hurts them. That is what it boils down to. Whats good and bad is strictly opinion and I have not seen anything in this thread that has proven otherwise.
I provided evidence of how gameplay is negatively impacted by sprint, I didn't mention opinions.
You're logic here is saying, you like sprint for the complications I described...
That doesn't mean it should be in the game. For me to be wrong, you have to prove me wrong,
and that isn't possible with the argument "I like it" which you have just thrown down.
That's because having a new Halo without sprint is good thing. There are so many positives, and it would serve to create a truly great Halo game!
Gaunt1et 5 wrote:
Sprint is one of the worst offenders of Halo's core gameplay. How 343 still doesn't see that is beyond me. Same with Bungie.
Sprint brings up the pace of the game. And for someone who has played the older games, a lot, I can say that Halo 5 has one of the best multiplayer gameplay of all time. It would honestly be a let down if they removed sprint becuase even though a lot of players hate sprint theres a big number that love it.
This is a popular misconception. Here is a link to a video of 2v2 slayer in CE. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjP-r-Dxz0U

There are 4 things I want you to notice:
1. The kill count goes to 50
2. There are only 4 people on the map
3. The game lasts just over 9 minutes
4. There isn't a sign of sprint anywhere in sight

Many things go into determining the pace of a game; including map design, kill times, and gameplay settings such as radar vs no radar and power ups / weapons on static vs dynamic spawns. A game can be designed to be fast or slow paced with or without sprint but sprint itself does not determine the pace of a game.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 647
  4. 648
  5. 649
  6. 650
  7. 651
  8. ...
  9. 840