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[Locked] The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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Bensolo31 wrote:
13k replies!!! Wow that's crazy. I love sprint faster pace game is more fun to me.
There are ways to make gameplay faster without sprint. Smaller maps and faster base movement speed are just a couple of ways.
I wish. Bad company 1 and 2 had sprint and they're among the clunkiest and slowest fps games I've played (even in smaller maps). Sprint and other movement gimmicks are not the solution.

Map design innovation as well as adjusting movement speed accordingly to this, as well as having areas accessible only by crouch jumps (this stood out to me so much when replaying halo 2/3 multiplayer on MCC a while back....makes a HUGE difference).

Then, innovating the game further around this. E.g dynamic map elements, new gametypes. Rather than rebuilding the WHOLE game around sprint and such, they can create entirely new gametypes!
With all that said, would you consider Halos 1-3 arena shooters, or just "inspired by"? Because I think that Halo is more of an arena-tactical hybrid shooter, myself.
Definitely "inspired by". Numerous gamplay mechanics break from the Arena shooter formula, most of them are defining features for Halo: Recharging shield, two-weapon-restriction, and so forth.
Mind you that this is not a qualitative evaluation. As I said, I don't want to turn Halo into Quake by claiming that "Arena = better". Just pointing out the differences.
Celestis wrote:
With all that said, would you consider Halos 1-3 arena shooters, or just "inspired by"? Because I think that Halo is more of an arena-tactical hybrid shooter, myself.
Definitely "inspired by". Numerous gamplay mechanics break from the Arena shooter formula, most of them are defining features for Halo: Recharging shield, two-weapon-restriction, and so forth.
Mind you that this is not a qualitative evaluation. As I said, I don't want to turn Halo into Quake by claiming that "Arena = better". Just pointing out the differences.
Yeah, in my opinion, Halo took the good aspects of arena shooters and the good aspects of tactical shooters to make a great formula. Sprint threw that balance off, because it was never necessary.
Celestis wrote:
With all that said, would you consider Halos 1-3 arena shooters, or just "inspired by"? Because I think that Halo is more of an arena-tactical hybrid shooter, myself.
Definitely "inspired by". Numerous gamplay mechanics break from the Arena shooter formula, most of them are defining features for Halo: Recharging shield, two-weapon-restriction, and so forth.
Mind you that this is not a qualitative evaluation. As I said, I don't want to turn Halo into Quake by claiming that "Arena = better". Just pointing out the differences.
Still, I'd say that having majority arena shooter qualities makes Halo a part of the arena shooter family, if only by technicality. I understand to be a pure arena FPS, you'd have to play like Quake or at least similar to it (Unreal Tournament and Half Life death match don't play exactly like Quake), but I feel like Halo having vertical map design, equal starts, and periodically respawning weapon and power up pickups on maps makes Halo technically fall under the arena shooter style of gameplay.
Celestis wrote:
With all that said, would you consider Halos 1-3 arena shooters, or just "inspired by"? Because I think that Halo is more of an arena-tactical hybrid shooter, myself.
Definitely "inspired by". Numerous gamplay mechanics break from the Arena shooter formula, most of them are defining features for Halo: Recharging shield, two-weapon-restriction, and so forth.
Mind you that this is not a qualitative evaluation. As I said, I don't want to turn Halo into Quake by claiming that "Arena = better". Just pointing out the differences.
Yeah, in my opinion, Halo took the good aspects of arena shooters and the good aspects of tactical shooters to make a great formula. Sprint threw that balance off, because it was never necessary.
Despite what people say, I don't think sprint actually adds any strategic or tactical value to Halo. Halo was all about menuvering around the map and controlling power positions, all while having your weapon at the ready, and sprint makes it to where you choose map movement over combat readiness, which goes against what Halo is known for.
Despite what people say, I don't think sprint actually adds any strategic or tactical value to Halo. Halo was all about menuvering around the map and controlling power positions, all while having your weapon at the ready, and sprint makes it to where you choose map movement over combat readiness, which goes against what Halo is known for.
Yeah, all in all, it's just a stupid mechanic. It doesn't speed up gameplay whatsoever, and the only reason it was even put in to halo was so that people who played COD and Battlefield would be interested. It's a waste of time to put a mechanic in for people who aren't going to be playing the game anywhere near as long as actual fans. Sure, you can not care if sprint is in the game or not, but there isn't a good reason to argue for having it in the game, whereas there are many good reasons that it shouldn't be.
Just don't use it- it's what I do.
This....point of yours proves to me the pro sprinters don't understand a thing, or don't read any of the arguement as to how sprint is a negative thing. You seem to think we don't like the animation....when in fact, we don't like the IMPACTS it has on the game.

Get it? The IMPACT of Sprint. NOT the ANIMATION. The impacts of which have been eloquently explained endlessly on forums and YouTube, only to be dismissed by either "hater" "don't sprint" "halo needs to evolve" etc etc the typical dismissals.

Ive lost track of the amount of times I've explained this to people, hence the caps.
No need to be so aggressive. I am not saying anyone is wrong for using it. I see how you could be irritated though; I apologize for setting you off. I did not mean to dismiss the problem, I was just trying to give something simple. As I looked into it more, I have seen they want to solve the "problem" of sprint. I personally don't see the problem. I know this is just me though, as many like you seem to be obsessed with the negative effects of it.
there is no need to remove the sprint, dont sprint if you want
there is no need to remove the sprint, dont sprint if you want
what of the things we see as issues are solved by us not sprinting?
Just don't use it- it's what I do.
This....point of yours proves to me the pro sprinters don't understand a thing, or don't read any of the arguement as to how sprint is a negative thing. You seem to think we don't like the animation....when in fact, we don't like the IMPACTS it has on the game.

Get it? The IMPACT of Sprint. NOT the ANIMATION. The impacts of which have been eloquently explained endlessly on forums and YouTube, only to be dismissed by either "hater" "don't sprint" "halo needs to evolve" etc etc the typical dismissals.

Ive lost track of the amount of times I've explained this to people, hence the caps.
No need to be so aggressive. I am not saying anyone is wrong for using it. I see how you could be irritated though; I apologize for setting you off. I did not mean to dismiss the problem, I was just trying to give something simple. As I looked into it more, I have seen they want to solve the "problem" of sprint. I personally don't see the problem. I know this is just me though, as many like you seem to be obsessed with the negative effects of it.
I wouldnt say the post was aggressive at all. I clearly explained the use of caps at the end, and if you've been on waypoint for as long as I have you'd understand the frustration of people not reading anything. then jumping to call you "hater" if your points contradict how they "feel" about the game. Sorry to disapoint, but in a proper "debate", feelings arent considered. Objective points and observations are put forward, as well as suggestions and evidence to improve/support this (respectfully of course) and if anyone gets "offended" "hurt" or results to ad hominem due to their disagreement, that should not derail the discussion. This happens a LOT on any forum, especially here in regard to movement gimmicks, as well as microtransactions (yeh...people defend those...).

Anyway, just because you dont "see" or understand the problem, that does not mean it does not exist or is not a relevant problem. All that is telling me is you havent looked into it enough. I explained this issues with sprint in another post in this thread somewhere, as well as many others. It is very, very clear. We are "obsessed" with it, because 343 is trying to cater to a new crowd and shafting what the originals fans know and love about Halo. So of course we are obsessed with it.

Finally, ill pass on a suggestion. I recommend you get a custom game of friends together, and play a match of slayer with no sprint, and base speed set to between 110% and 130%. It wont be perfect due to maps being designed for sprint, however what it will show you is that Halo does not need sprint to be "fast paced". Who knows, you might even enjoy more.
If sprinting and spartan abilities are in Halo 6, I will not buy it. Halo 5 does not resemble Halo gameplay due to sprinting and spartan abilities. I will never play Halo 6 if so.

Did Halo Suffer from not having those things in it before? No. Now look at it...
Just don't use it- it's what I do.
This....point of yours proves to me the pro sprinters don't understand a thing, or don't read any of the arguement as to how sprint is a negative thing. You seem to think we don't like the animation....when in fact, we don't like the IMPACTS it has on the game.

Get it? The IMPACT of Sprint. NOT the ANIMATION. The impacts of which have been eloquently explained endlessly on forums and YouTube, only to be dismissed by either "hater" "don't sprint" "halo needs to evolve" etc etc the typical dismissals.

Ive lost track of the amount of times I've explained this to people, hence the caps.
No need to be so aggressive. I am not saying anyone is wrong for using it. I see how you could be irritated though; I apologize for setting you off. I did not mean to dismiss the problem, I was just trying to give something simple. As I looked into it more, I have seen they want to solve the "problem" of sprint. I personally don't see the problem. I know this is just me though, as many like you seem to be obsessed with the negative effects of it.
I wouldnt say the post was aggressive at all. I clearly explained the use of caps at the end, and if you've been on waypoint for as long as I have you'd understand the frustration of people not reading anything. then jumping to call you "hater" if your points contradict how they "feel" about the game. Sorry to disapoint, but in a proper "debate", feelings arent considered. Objective points and observations are put forward, as well as suggestions and evidence to improve/support this (respectfully of course) and if anyone gets "offended" "hurt" or results to ad hominem due to their disagreement, that should not derail the discussion. This happens a LOT on any forum, especially here in regard to movement gimmicks, as well as microtransactions (yeh...people defend those...).

Anyway, just because you dont "see" or understand the problem, that does not mean it does not exist or is not a relevant problem. All that is telling me is you havent looked into it enough. I explained this issues with sprint in another post in this thread somewhere, as well as many others. It is very, very clear. We are "obsessed" with it, because 343 is trying to cater to a new crowd and shafting what the originals fans know and love about Halo. So of course we are obsessed with it.

Finally, ill pass on a suggestion. I recommend you get a custom game of friends together, and play a match of slayer with no sprint, and base speed set to between 110% and 130%. It wont be perfect due to maps being designed for sprint, however what it will show you is that Halo does not need sprint to be "fast paced". Who knows, you might even enjoy more.
The first post I made was one of my first posts on waypoint. I must say, the comment was blunt and not at all thought out. It was a quick comment I used to see how the forum ranking system worked. I was not intending to be in any sort of "debate", but oh well. Yes, I'm new here, and no, I didn't think anyone would actually respond. Through all the replies ive gotten and the comments I looked through, here is my actual, thought out opinion on the topic: There are problems with sprint, but there are positives. People have their opinions, and they have their facts. There are two sides- both are strong. When I played the BETA, I personally (me, not everyone) did not even notice any sort of effects of sprint. Further in, I saw some, such as cowering. 343 catering to new fans, though, is something bound to happen. It does not have to (it shouldn't) cater to new fans at all. It could stick with it's basic formula, but it is likely they did not do this as for business reasons. Sadly, I don't think they will revert back to a no sprint type of game. Finally, I did indeed create a no sprint gamemode and played it with some friends. It was wonderful, and I agree it can be a fast paced game without sprint. It allowed for more gunfights and less fleeing. A friend and I modified the map to fit the no sprint, and it felt just like Halo 3. We opened it up, and people loved it. So, I do think a gamemode for no sprinting, along with smaller maps, could be fun. As far as no sprint goes, it is possible, just not logical for the business to push away people from COD, BF, and so on. More features prove beneficial for games, but as for gameplay, sprint doesn't work for Halo. It work well in most shooters, but not Halo. The problem is, it is there because it is barely halo anymore. The feel is there, but the gameplay is out the window. As for halo 5 as a game, sprint is fine. The maps are made for it, the warzone gamemode is good with it, etc. All in all, sprint works well with halo 5, (It is made to do so) but as a franchise, it hurts the veteran players.
I understand that feelings are not something to be spared here, but the only reason I pointed out the aggressive tone is because I am not one to enjoy getting into a comment thread of differing opinions, as well as I am new to the waypoint community. I understand how my blunt comment seemed like just another pester. Thank you for the custom game suggestion, and I wish to start no comment wars.
Have a nice day.
Just don't use it- it's what I do.
This....point of yours proves to me the pro sprinters don't understand a thing, or don't read any of the arguement as to how sprint is a negative thing. You seem to think we don't like the animation....when in fact, we don't like the IMPACTS it has on the game.

Get it? The IMPACT of Sprint. NOT the ANIMATION. The impacts of which have been eloquently explained endlessly on forums and YouTube, only to be dismissed by either "hater" "don't sprint" "halo needs to evolve" etc etc the typical dismissals.

Ive lost track of the amount of times I've explained this to people, hence the caps.
No need to be so aggressive. I am not saying anyone is wrong for using it. I see how you could be irritated though; I apologize for setting you off. I did not mean to dismiss the problem, I was just trying to give something simple. As I looked into it more, I have seen they want to solve the "problem" of sprint. I personally don't see the problem. I know this is just me though, as many like you seem to be obsessed with the negative effects of it.
I wouldnt say the post was aggressive at all. I clearly explained the use of caps at the end, and if you've been on waypoint for as long as I have you'd understand the frustration of people not reading anything. then jumping to call you "hater" if your points contradict how they "feel" about the game. Sorry to disapoint, but in a proper "debate", feelings arent considered. Objective points and observations are put forward, as well as suggestions and evidence to improve/support this (respectfully of course) and if anyone gets "offended" "hurt" or results to ad hominem due to their disagreement, that should not derail the discussion. This happens a LOT on any forum, especially here in regard to movement gimmicks, as well as microtransactions (yeh...people defend those...).

Anyway, just because you dont "see" or understand the problem, that does not mean it does not exist or is not a relevant problem. All that is telling me is you havent looked into it enough. I explained this issues with sprint in another post in this thread somewhere, as well as many others. It is very, very clear. We are "obsessed" with it, because 343 is trying to cater to a new crowd and shafting what the originals fans know and love about Halo. So of course we are obsessed with it.

Finally, ill pass on a suggestion. I recommend you get a custom game of friends together, and play a match of slayer with no sprint, and base speed set to between 110% and 130%. It wont be perfect due to maps being designed for sprint, however what it will show you is that Halo does not need sprint to be "fast paced". Who knows, you might even enjoy more.
The first post I made was one of my first posts on waypoint. I must say, the comment was blunt and not at all thought out. It was a quick comment I used to see how the forum ranking system worked. I was not intending to be in any sort of "debate", but oh well. Yes, I'm new here, and no, I didn't think anyone would actually respond. Through all the replies ive gotten and the comments I looked through, here is my actual, thought out opinion on the topic: There are problems with sprint, but there are positives. People have their opinions, and they have their facts. There are two sides- both are strong. When I played the BETA, I personally (me, not everyone) did not even notice any sort of effects of sprint. Further in, I saw some, such as cowering. 343 catering to new fans, though, is something bound to happen. It does not have to (it shouldn't) cater to new fans at all. It could stick with it's basic formula, but it is likely they did not do this as for business reasons. Sadly, I don't think they will revert back to a no sprint type of game. Finally, I did indeed create a no sprint gamemode and played it with some friends. It was wonderful, and I agree it can be a fast paced game without sprint. It allowed for more gunfights and less fleeing. A friend and I modified the map to fit the no sprint, and it felt just like Halo 3. We opened it up, and people loved it. So, I do think a gamemode for no sprinting, along with smaller maps, could be fun. As far as no sprint goes, it is possible, just not logical for the business to push away people from COD, BF, and so on. More features prove beneficial for games, but as for gameplay, sprint doesn't work for Halo. It work well in most shooters, but not Halo. The problem is, it is there because it is barely halo anymore. The feel is there, but the gameplay is out the window. As for halo 5 as a game, sprint is fine. The maps are made for it, the warzone gamemode is good with it, etc. All in all, sprint works well with halo 5, (It is made to do so) but as a franchise, it hurts the veteran players.
I understand that feelings are not something to be spared here, but the only reason I pointed out the aggressive tone is because I am not one to enjoy getting into a comment thread of differing opinions, as well as I am new to the waypoint community. I understand how my blunt comment seemed like just another pester. Thank you for the custom game suggestion, and I wish to start no comment wars.
Have a nice day.
I will give you this, you are one of the few pro-sprinters (or should I consider you neutral towards it?) that I've debated with that was actually reasonable with their talking points. You didn't resort to name calling or other fanboyish retorts, so for that, you have my respect.
Obviously people are split down the middle about whether to keep sprint or not. Why not create a classic playlist that has maps,mechanics, and gameplay of the original Halo games. Also make a modern slayer playlist that has modern mechanics like sprint! This way both parties can be happy and be satisfied. Granted it will take more resources to do it, but at least in theory, it sounds great!
Obviously people are split down the middle about whether to keep sprint or not. Why not create a classic playlist that has maps,mechanics, and gameplay of the original Halo games. Also make a modern slayer playlist that has modern mechanics like sprint! This way both parties can be happy and be satisfied. Granted it will take more resources to do it, but at least in theory, it sounds great!
It's not that simple unfortunately. You're saying that a separate playlist without sprint will satisfy anti-sprinters. The problem however is that said playlist will exclusively contain forged maps since actual maps would still be build around sprint. Furthermore, anti-sprinters would have their entire matchmaking experience limited by just one playlist, meaning no game modes to choose from, only play what the playlist rotation provides.

I would also like to see an outcome where both parties can just enjoy the game, but you simply cannot divide the game even more to please both. Sprint itself has such an impact around the overall design of the game that it's either sprint or no sprint at all (me choosing the latter).
CrazeTurk wrote:
Obviously people are split down the middle about whether to keep sprint or not. Why not create a classic playlist that has maps,mechanics, and gameplay of the original Halo games. Also make a modern slayer playlist that has modern mechanics like sprint! This way both parties can be happy and be satisfied. Granted it will take more resources to do it, but at least in theory, it sounds great!
It's not that simple unfortunately. You're saying that a separate playlist without sprint will satisfy anti-sprinters. The problem however is that said playlist will exclusively contain forged maps since actual maps would still be build around sprint. Furthermore, anti-sprinters would have their entire matchmaking experience limited by just one playlist, meaning no game modes to choose from, only play what the playlist rotation provides.

I would also like to see an outcome where both parties can just enjoy the game, but you simply cannot divide the game even more to please both. Sprint itself has such an impact around the overall design of the game that it's either sprint or no sprint at all (me choosing the latter).
I've been reading a lot of discussions in the forums and watching a lot of videos regarding sprint in Halo. I think it's a really difficult topic where everyone has a different opinion about sprint. To me, I don't mind to be there or not. Why? Well, Halo has it's own identity since Halo CE, and from that point, that identity has been "upgraded" in many things, the big one was Dual Wielding, which was revolutionary because on how young the franchise was in 2004. For those who know, sprint was actually planned to be in Halo 2, but was scraped. I don't know if Halo had that the response from the community would be positive or negative. But then it was officially introduced in Halo Reach, as an armour ability. And from what I heard, it had a negative response from the community was mixed (I think), which is understandable, Halo 3 was the pinnacle of the franchise and created a lot of memories for many of us. Now sprint is now stuck in the franchise, I'm not saying that is something that 343i can't remove in future Halo games, because they can, it's just some people can live with it, that's why there's a huge disagreement in the community that led to a lot of mixed feedback, some people like it, some people don't, and that might be the reason that sprint was kept for Halo 5. In my opinion, I wouldn't mind if 343i removed sprint, but if they do keep that they need to find a way to balance it, they're on the right track with sprint in Halo 5, but needs some tweaks to make it more bearable for the whole community to like.
Can anyone actually give a true reason to keep sprint? I can think of multiple reasons not to have it, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone that's for sprint has any good reasons to keep it in the game.
There is no reason to have sprint in Halo 6. Halo has thrived without it. Now look what sprinting has done to the Halo community...600+ pages worth of back and forth. I'm surprised there isn't a 600 page thread discussing thrust and spartan abilites, though. Those need an equal amount of criticism as they do not represent, or belong in Halo.

As I said before. If any of these non-halo mechanics are in Halo 6, I will be moving on from the franchise. Halo is now a shell of its former greatness, and all for what?...appealing to the call of duty generation?
There is no reason to have sprint in Halo 6. Halo has thrived without it. Now look what sprinting has done to the Halo community...600+ pages worth of back and forth. I'm surprised there isn't a 600 page thread discussing thrust and spartan abilites, though. Those need an equal amount of criticism as they do not represent, or belong in Halo.

As I said before. If any of these non-halo mechanics are in Halo 6, I will be moving on from the franchise. Halo is now a shell of its former greatness, and all for what?...appealing to the call of duty generation?
Unfortunately, it seems like we'll probably have to move on at this point. 343 don't seem to care about what Halo was at it's roots, nor do they care about the negative impact advanced movement abilities have had on the core gameplay. They seem perfectly content with moving foreword with the direction that Halo 5 has set precedent for as evident by many of the 343 execs, and even Phil Spencer claiming Halo 5 to be the best multiplayer in the series. At this rate, assuming we don't get a proper Halo 3 Anniversary, the classic Halo we knew and loved is not coming back. I hate sounding pessimistic about it, but it seems pretty evident at this point. I can only hope for the best and wish myself to be wrong at this point, but I'm not holding my breath.
Can anyone actually give a true reason to keep sprint? I can think of multiple reasons not to have it, but I'm interested in seeing if anyone that's for sprint has any good reasons to keep it in the game.
Other than "because it makes me feel like a Spartan, and they can sprint in the lore", "it makes me feel faster", "Halo needs to evolve to compete with modern shooters" (how adding a mechanic that is in nearly EVERY modern shooter game is going to help Halo compete with said modern shooter games, I don't know), and "it adds options like choosing when and when not to sprint", I can't think of any other arguments that I've heard from pro-sprinters. Feel free to deconstruct and rebut these arguments as you wish (not that I agree with them, mind you).
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