Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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I have been a part of this discussion before, and I want to explain to people who like sprint why I don't think sprint is needed in Halo. I won't try to bash you for liking it, but I want to at least hope that this changes your opinion about sprint no matter how big or small.

First, let's talk about the original trilogy of Halo games, Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and Halo 3 (and Halo 3 ODST if you want to count that.) These games did not have sprint, yet they were still fun to play. These games set the bar for how a Halo game should be played. Many defenders of sprint say that they like sprint because it keeps Halo 5 at a faster pace, yet the original Halo games were still fast paced. I want to make one thing clear, you do not need sprint in order to make Halo play at a fast pace. Take a look at the level design of the multiplayer maps in the original Halo games. What Bungie did was one simple thing. Make small maps just the right size to compensate for the "slow" movement speed, and make larger maps have drivable vehicles.

Now that we talked about how Bungie handled the map design in the original trilogy, let's talk about how 343 handles their map designs for the multiplayer maps in Halo 5. Take the map Truth. What 343 did was basically remake a map from Halo 2 and Halo 3. Since you have access to sprint, 343 decided to increase the overall size of the map. I've tested this by playing both Truth from Halo 5 and Heretic from Halo 3 back to back, and I could immediately tell that Truth was much larger in size than Heretic. 343 increased the size so you wouldn't be able to sprint through the level in 3 seconds. This makes me think that 343 did this for every multiplayer map, because if they did it with Truth, why not the rest?

I know what some of you may be thinking though, I should be talking about the gameplay as well. Sprint affects more than the map size, it changes the gameplay, and I think it's for the worse. I don't think that sprint is necessary for a good fast paced Halo game as I said before, but what 343 did with sprint in Halo 5 should not exist in Halo 6. In order to use certain abilities, you have to, and I repeat, you HAVE TO SPRINT. You have to sprint in order to slide, and you have to sprint in order to activate Spartan charge. This to me is what's so bad about sprint. It's the fact that you can't use certain abilities unless you click down on that thumbstick and watch your Spartan swing his arms around. Unlike the previous Halo game, Halo 4, I can't just tell you to not to use sprint, because if you don't sprint, I will have the advantage of having access to certain abilities. Now if you think that having this advantage is not so bad and that 343 should keep it, then I seriously hope you think that clicking down on the thumbstick over and over again is fun. It's click down on the thumbstick to run, instead of just pushing the thumbstick forward. Video game controls have come a long way haven't they.

So that's what I think about sprint. I think Bungie did a great and fantastic job with the level design of the original trilogy. Remember, just because you don't sprint doesn't mean the game has to be slow. 343 increased the map size in Halo 5 because you have sprint, so really, are you REALLY moving faster, or is it just the same speed as the original trilogy? The fact that you have to sprint in order to use certain abilities is just bad design, and I hope they fix this in the next installment.
I have been a part of this discussion before, and I want to explain to people who like sprint why I don't think sprint is needed in Halo. I won't try to bash you for liking it, but I want to at least hope that this changes your opinion about sprint no matter how big or small.

First, let's talk about the original trilogy of Halo games, Halo Combat Evolved, Halo 2, and Halo 3 (and Halo 3 ODST if you want to count that.) These games did not have sprint, yet they were still fun to play. These games set the bar for how a Halo game should be played. Many defenders of sprint say that they like sprint because it keeps Halo 5 at a faster pace, yet the original Halo games were still fast paced. I want to make one thing clear, you do not need sprint in order to make Halo play at a fast pace. Take a look at the level design of the multiplayer maps in the original Halo games. What Bungie did was one simple thing. Make small maps just the right size to compensate for the "slow" movement speed, and make larger maps have drivable vehicles.

Now that we talked about how Bungie handled the map design in the original trilogy, let's talk about how 343 handles their map designs for the multiplayer maps in Halo 5. Take the map Truth. What 343 did was basically remake a map from Halo 2 and Halo 3. Since you have access to sprint, 343 decided to increase the overall size of the map. I've tested this by playing both Truth from Halo 5 and Heretic from Halo 3 back to back, and I could immediately tell that Truth was much larger in size than Heretic. 343 increased the size so you wouldn't be able to sprint through the level in 3 seconds. This makes me think that 343 did this for every multiplayer map, because if they did it with Truth, why not the rest?

I know what some of you may be thinking though, I should be talking about the gameplay as well. Sprint affects more than the map size, it changes the gameplay, and I think it's for the worse. I don't think that sprint is necessary for a good fast paced Halo game as I said before, but what 343 did with sprint in Halo 5 should not exist in Halo 6. In order to use certain abilities, you have to, and I repeat, you HAVE TO SPRINT. You have to sprint in order to slide, and you have to sprint in order to activate Spartan charge. This to me is what's so bad about sprint. It's the fact that you can't use certain abilities unless you click down on that thumbstick and watch your Spartan swing his arms around. Unlike the previous Halo game, Halo 4, I can't just tell you to not to use sprint, because if you don't sprint, I will have the advantage of having access to certain abilities. Now if you think that having this advantage is not so bad and that 343 should keep it, then I seriously hope you think that clicking down on the thumbstick over and over again is fun. It's click down on the thumbstick to run, instead of just pushing the thumbstick forward. Video game controls have come a long way haven't they.

So that's what I think about sprint. I think Bungie did a great and fantastic job with the level design of the original trilogy. Remember, just because you don't sprint doesn't mean the game has to be slow. 343 increased the map size in Halo 5 because you have sprint, so really, are you REALLY moving faster, or is it just the same speed as the original trilogy? The fact that you have to sprint in order to use certain abilities is just bad design, and I hope they fix this in the next installment.
I respect and agree with all the major reasons why we shouldn't have sprint. I am not saying that we have to give up on the notion, but maybe alter our expectations. I don't see 343 changing their minds. This aspect has been in the game since Reach. I think because of that there will forever be a divide in the Halo community.

The most we can hope for is a spin off game that incorporates no Sprint or move onto the games on PC.
So are pro-sprint people playing the H3 playlist and are you having a change of heart or no? I'll add that I do think the movement speed could be upped a tad.
I like Sprint, but I don't like the other abilities. Especially Spartan Charge.. my gosh... that thing stinks when trying to assassinate. But if Halo has to remove Sprint to return to being an amazing, and I mean AMAZING, FPS Arena game... then so be it. :( Just please... take away Spartan Charge and Clambering, etc. (Clambering because I miss the need to crouch jump for stuff. Clambering makes things too easy, less skilled.)
Naqser wrote:
Id rather keep sprint.
For what purpose?
Trying to say this in as unoffensive a way as possible. He's probably a youngin' and has only played Halo for the last 1-2 titles if I had to guess. There's nothing wrong with that, but I've personally noticed that most people who want Halo to keep sprint never played much of the Halo titles that didn't have it.

To put it simply: he probably doesn't know what he's missing out on. He probably played some old Halo games now that the community is dead, or maybe MCC, which is a conglomerated mess of game mechanics and was meant as a casual revisit to old Halo and not as the full experience.

@DaxSeven09Reach didn't have the same sprint we have now. Reach had loadouts and sprint was one of them. Not only that, but you could only sprint for about 5 seconds in Reach before it had to recharge... your spartan also ran out of breath and made a breathing sound effect that was very audible to everyone nearby. Infinite sprint on all spartans isn't the same as a very limited sprint available on one loadout. That's totally not a fair argument to make.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
So are pro-sprint people playing the H3 playlist and are you having a change of heart or no? I'll add that I do think the movement speed could be upped a tad.
I'm pro-sprint and pretty much all the spartan abilities. I haven't had any interest in the H3 playlist -- even with the shield recharge fix; though, I wouldn't mind playing on the maps. I plan to play on those maps within some custom games sooner or later possibly through the custom browser.
I'm used to it now. Keep it
"I'm used to mechanics which don't fit in Halo, so the developers should keep them in future installments." If that's actually your rationale, then I don't know any other to respond, rather than make you aware of how stupid that sounds.
GED2208 wrote:
Sprint is just bad period. Ideally it wouldn't be in the game, but if it has to be, it should always be available to use. Sprint is clunky to begin with, and when you have a sprint bar that needs to charge it's even clunkier. I don't understand how anyone could favor choppy gameplay where you're always going in and out of a sprinting animation. Higher base speed and a higher FOV would make the game feel much faster, and much smoother.
I agree a faster BMS or increased FOV would be good i dont think people mind it that much considering how many other games have it.
Yeah, my go-to example is always quake. It's the fastest FPS game around and it doesn't have sprint.
That's because sprint is always-on by default.
That's the case in classic Halo games too. In fact, traversing around maps (Truth H5 vs Midship H2, for example) is slower at full sprint in 5. It's all an illusion.
That's because the maps were smaller.

If a fight is 10 meters away - which Halo will get you there faster?
If you add Sprint to said Halo, the distance will be 2x as long. Ever think that maybe faster movement doesn't equate to a faster game, overall?
treycen777 wrote:
GED2208 wrote:
Sprint is just bad period. Ideally it wouldn't be in the game, but if it has to be, it should always be available to use. Sprint is clunky to begin with, and when you have a sprint bar that needs to charge it's even clunkier. I don't understand how anyone could favor choppy gameplay where you're always going in and out of a sprinting animation. Higher base speed and a higher FOV would make the game feel much faster, and much smoother.
I agree a faster BMS or increased FOV would be good i dont think people mind it that much considering how many other games have it.
Yeah, my go-to example is always quake. It's the fastest FPS game around and it doesn't have sprint.
That's because sprint is always-on by default.
That's the case in classic Halo games too. In fact, traversing around maps (Truth H5 vs Midship H2, for example) is slower at full sprint in 5. It's all an illusion.
That's because the maps were smaller.

If a fight is 10 meters away - which Halo will get you there faster?
If you add Sprint to said Halo, the distance will be 2x as long. Ever think that maybe faster movement = doesn't equate to a faster game, overall?
I would much rather be able to shoot and manuever to that fight that is 10 meters away rather than sprint over there, not be able to shoot, until my sprint animation is done once I am there. Sprint is unnecessary in Halo, and it shouldn't be there just to satisfy this illusion of a faster game.
In non-halo games, except Doom, the walking pace is slow, so sprint is available to get you going to places easier.
In Halo, if there is no sprint, there needs to be a compensation to the walking speed so that it is neither too slow, nor too fast. This has worked for so long and did not need to be changed.
Combine this with shields, and you mess this up even more.
If your shields are down, you can't run because your shields will never recharge. But the enemy can run after you? That practically guarantees your attacker will finish you off.
LbonB312 wrote:
In non-halo games, except Doom, the walking pace is slow, so sprint is available to get you going to places easier.
In Halo, if there is no sprint, there needs to be a compensation to the walking speed so that it is neither too slow, nor too fast. This has worked for so long and did not need to be changed.
Combine this with shields, and you mess this up even more.
If your shields are down, you can't run because your shields will never recharge. But the enemy can run after you? That practically guarantees your attacker will finish you off.
The main thing with Sprint that keeps you from being able to really defend yourself is the fact that you can't shoot while you sprint, but without Sprint you can. The same thing with Clamber. The animation of the ability keeps you from engaging the enemy.

Making things "easier" isn't always the best thing especially when it comes to Halo. I don't want things to be easy.
LbonB312 wrote:
In non-halo games, except Doom...
...and Quake, and Unreal, and... just about every FPS during the '90s and '00s.

Quote:
In Halo, if there is no sprint, there needs to be a compensation to the walking speed so that it is neither too slow, nor too fast. This has worked for so long and did not need to be changed.
Exactly, which is why Halo: CE and 2 didn't need compensation for their running (I don't know why everyone keeps calling it "walking") speeds because they didn't have Halo 3's godawful movement and FoV (though Halo 2's FoV was only slightly better than 3's). Movement in those games were crisp, minus the jump delay in Halo: CE, because you could actually strafe effectively in those games.

Quote:
If your shields are down, you can't run because your shields will never recharge. But the enemy can run after you? That practically guarantees your attacker will finish you off.
No, it doesn't. It stretches the kill-time far too long, and the fight essential becomes a Tom-and-Jerry scenario, which is nonsense in an Arena FPS game that is supposed to thrive on well-deserved kills and consistency within matches. Also, the attacker chasing its prey could lead to one of the prey's teammates to kill the attacker.
treycen777 wrote:
I'm used to it now. Keep it
"I'm used to mechanics which doesn't fit in Halo, so the developers should keep in future installments." If that's actually your rationale, then I don't know any other to respond, rather than make you aware of how stupid that sounds.
GED2208 wrote:
Sprint is just bad period. Ideally it wouldn't be in the game, but if it has to be, it should always be available to use. Sprint is clunky to begin with, and when you have a sprint bar that needs to charge it's even clunkier. I don't understand how anyone could favor choppy gameplay where you're always going in and out of a sprinting animation. Higher base speed and a higher FOV would make the game feel much faster, and much smoother.
I agree a faster BMS or increased FOV would be good i dont think people mind it that much considering how many other games have it.
Yeah, my go-to example is always quake. It's the fastest FPS game around and it doesn't have sprint.
That's because sprint is always-on by default.
That's the case in classic Halo games too. In fact, traversing around maps (Truth H5 vs Midship H2, for example) is slower at full sprint in 5. It's all an illusion.
That's because the maps were smaller.

If a fight is 10 meters away - which Halo will get you there faster?
If you add Sprint to said Halo, the distance will be 2x as long. Ever think that maybe faster movement = doesn't equate to a faster game, overall?
I literally meant - 10 meters.

if you see a fight 10 meters away in Halo 3 and a fight 10 meters away in Halo 5, which Halo gets you there faster?
treycen777 wrote:
I'm used to it now. Keep it
"I'm used to mechanics which doesn't fit in Halo, so the developers should keep in future installments." If that's actually your rationale, then I don't know any other to respond, rather than make you aware of how stupid that sounds.
GED2208 wrote:
Sprint is just bad period. Ideally it wouldn't be in the game, but if it has to be, it should always be available to use. Sprint is clunky to begin with, and when you have a sprint bar that needs to charge it's even clunkier. I don't understand how anyone could favor choppy gameplay where you're always going in and out of a sprinting animation. Higher base speed and a higher FOV would make the game feel much faster, and much smoother.
I agree a faster BMS or increased FOV would be good i dont think people mind it that much considering how many other games have it.
Yeah, my go-to example is always quake. It's the fastest FPS game around and it doesn't have sprint.
That's because sprint is always-on by default.
That's the case in classic Halo games too. In fact, traversing around maps (Truth H5 vs Midship H2, for example) is slower at full sprint in 5. It's all an illusion.
That's because the maps were smaller.

If a fight is 10 meters away - which Halo will get you there faster?
If you add Sprint to said Halo, the distance will be 2x as long. Ever think that maybe faster movement = doesn't equate to a faster game, overall?
I literally meant - 10 meters.

if you see a fight 10 meters away in Halo 3 and a fight 10 meters away in Halo 5, which Halo gets you there faster?
Disregarding the "issue" that maps are enclosed environments designed by people with a certain idea and loose guidelines based on game mechanics present in the game, then in Halo 5 you'll cover 10 meters in a shorter time than Halo 3, nobody argues that.

However, that's about it.
It's been pointed out quite a few times, that Time To Travel is the desired measurement, not the distance itself, as the time is far more noticable than the distance you traverse.
There have been times measured in Halo 3 maps, Halo 4 maps and Halo 5 map, showing somewhat consistent least times required to traverse from one side to the other at max default travel speed.

Guardian vs Haven
Midship vs Truth

Also, if previous speed was an issue, why complicate things by implementing a new feature requiring an animation, new code to handle the different mechanics regarding the feature ( turn rate, speed, stopping criteria, shield recharge stuff ), when you could simply increase the Movement speed to begin with?
LbonB312 wrote:
In non-halo games, except Doom, the walking pace is slow, so sprint is available to get you going to places easier.
In most non-Halo games, the time to kill speed is also extremely quick, so Sprint is there so you can avoid getting shot faster. In Halo, it takes on average a full second to kill someone assuming all shots hit.

LbonB312 wrote:
In Halo, if there is no sprint, there needs to be a compensation to the walking speed so that it is neither too slow, nor too fast. This has worked for so long and did not need to be changed.
Which is pretty much all people wanted since Halo: Reach, but was only answered once in a Title Update to Halo Reach. Never again since.

See the problem here?

LbonB312 wrote:
If your shields are down, you can't run because your shields will never recharge. But the enemy can run after you? That practically guarantees your attacker will finish you off.
No, it does the exact opposite.

If you Sprint away, your shields can't recharge. If the attacker sprints after you, they can't shoot you. The only way you can heal is to stop sprinting, which allows the attacker to get close to you and hit you, and the only way they can hit you is to stop Sprinting, which allows you to get away.

So it's a perpetual game of cat and mouse with no one winning until outside influences get in the way.
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
treycen777 wrote:
I'm used to it now. Keep it
"I'm used to mechanics which don't fit in Halo, so the developers should keep in future installments." If that's actually your rationale, then I don't know any other to respond, rather than make you aware of how stupid that sounds.
GED2208 wrote:
Sprint is just bad period. Ideally it wouldn't be in the game, but if it has to be, it should always be available to use. Sprint is clunky to begin with, and when you have a sprint bar that needs to charge it's even clunkier. I don't understand how anyone could favor choppy gameplay where you're always going in and out of a sprinting animation. Higher base speed and a higher FOV would make the game feel much faster, and much smoother.
I agree a faster BMS or increased FOV would be good i dont think people mind it that much considering how many other games have it.
Yeah, my go-to example is always quake. It's the fastest FPS game around and it doesn't have sprint.
That's because sprint is always-on by default.
That's the case in classic Halo games too. In fact, traversing around maps (Truth H5 vs Midship H2, for example) is slower at full sprint in 5. It's all an illusion.
That's because the maps were smaller.

If a fight is 10 meters away - which Halo will get you there faster?
If you add Sprint to said Halo, the distance will be 2x as long. Ever think that maybe faster movement doesn't equate to a faster game, overall?
I literally meant - 10 meters.

if you see a fight 10 meters away in Halo 3 and a fight 10 meters away in Halo 5, which Halo gets you there faster?
Halo 5, of course, but that doesn't mean anything. Sprint is supposed to get you to where you need to go faster, but since maps have to be elongated to accommodate Sprint, you're covering more ground.
I appreciate the risk/reward decision it causes players to weigh and make throughout matches. Forgoing the use of the weapon in order to reach a certain position/location at a greater speed than what would be feasible if a player remained in an At-Ready position presents a dilemma for players to consider and weigh on the fly. In my opinion, that not only helps deepen the game-play, but it also interjects a sense of authenticity to the game-play too. As a military member myself and as someone who's an avid paintball/woodsball participant there are definitely moments when your primary objective becomes pure hustle which removes any real possibility for firing your weapon with any sense of practical aim whether that's to reach safety or to reach a new position/location. Plus, in Halo 5 you're given another weapon to use while making use of the sprint mechanic which is the Spartan Charge. Personally, I think Spartan Charge could use some balance adjustments, but I like how they've attempted to tie a relatively useful and practical melee mechanic into sprinting.

Anyways, in regards to Sprint I've had similar conversations/debates time and time again dating all the way back to Halo Reach when it was first introduced to the franchise. It's a tiring conversation/debate because people are adamant in their thoughts and preferences. I'm just glad the developers have continued to refine and improve its inclusion and I hope they continue with that trend in all future titles too.
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
Spartans and superhumans can also shoot and run at the same time, but apparently we forgot how to on the way there.
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
Designing a game isn't about trying to replicate the real world. It's about designing a set of rules that create a fun experience.

It's the whole reason Bungie gave us regenerating shields, and why it was changed from a medi-pack system to a shield system. It was more fun that way.

It's the whole reason Bungie dropped Dual-Wielding, and 343i haven't included the feature. DW is the more realistic option, but it needs to be balanced by a set of in game rules, or the mechanic would be overpowered and not fun.

It's the whole reason no one has tried to put going prone in to the game. Halo is designed to be a fluid shooter. You are meant to be constantly moving. Camping is frowned upon. Prone as a game design mechanic slows down a game and asks you to stop moving. It's a mechanic that clashes with the game's design.

And I could keep going on like this, but I think my point was made. Sprint as a game design mechanic has to function within a certain set of rules, but rather it just clashes with the rules that Halo was built upon, and that's why so much backlash and balancing has been required over the years.
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