Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
Well if your favorite Halo was H4 then it stands to reason you would go for the lore based multiplayer. It had "War Games" introduced to us, and an attempt to merge the fiction with the multiplayer.

I have never needed that type of immersion in my Halo multiplayer. I get that from campaign, and when I read the fiction. The main issue is that with Sprint added to the multiplayer adds a level of unnecessary illusion of speed that is not needed. I don't like the fact that it was added just because other games have it. Halo should continue to be unique like it was from its inception to Halo 3.

I started playing Halo multiplayer with Halo Reach. I played all the other Halo offline, anyway I have been looking forward to the return of Halo that is centered around the Golden Triangle even though I didn't originally play it. The little bit that I have played the BC Halo 3 and the Halo 3 Throwback playlist proves to me that I would enjoy a Halo with that type of gameplay at its core.

I haven't really been involved with this debate until now. I didn't really have too much of a concern about it one way or the other, but I haven't lost faith that 343 will see the light, and take a few steps back in the right direction. I am encouraged by the success of games without Sprint like Quake and Doom, and the possible success of COD WWII (that is centered around the return of more basic movement mechanics), that 343 will use that excuse to return to how Halo should be and stop trying to make it what it shouldn't.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.
The thing about the Lore is, i343 is in control of it, they supply you with it.
Considering that i343 writes the lore, that you use as a justification for sprint in the game they make, I'd say you've kind of missed something big.
i343 can remove sprint from Spartans any time they want, both from lore and from gameplay. Making it feel "realistic in its own universe".

So either you're fine with it both being in and out, because if it's removed in the lore, then it can't be in the game, no?
Or, you use lore now because it's convenient for you.
Sprint should be in the upcoming halo because humans can sprint so why should the spartans not sprint
DaxSeven09 wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
Well if your favorite Halo was H4 then it stands to reason you would go for the lore based multiplayer. It had "War Games" introduced to us, and an attempt to merge the fiction with the multiplayer.

I have never needed that type of immersion in my Halo multiplayer. I get that from campaign, and when I read the fiction. The main issue is that with Sprint added to the multiplayer adds a level of unnecessary illusion of speed that is not needed. I don't like the fact that it was added just because other games have it. Halo should continue to be unique like it was from its inception to Halo 3.

I started playing Halo multiplayer with Halo Reach. I played all the other Halo offline, anyway I have been looking forward to the return of Halo that is centered around the Golden Triangle even though I didn't originally play it. The little bit that I have played the BC Halo 3 and the Halo 3 Throwback playlist proves to me that I would enjoy a Halo with that type of gameplay at its core.

I haven't really been involved with this debate until now. I didn't really have too much of a concern about it one way or the other, but I haven't lost faith that 343 will see the light, and take a few steps back in the right direction. I am encouraged by the success of games without Sprint like Quake and Doom, and the possible success of COD WWII (that is centered around the return of more basic movement mechanics), that 343 will use that excuse to return to how Halo should be and stop trying to make it what it shouldn't.
I can see where you're coming from. I actually did the same thing, played all the Halos offline and started online with Reach and 4. I enjoy Halo 4 the most because I'm actually decent at it.

Halo 2(TMCC) irritates me because of the BR and the experienced gamers who have been playing for 10+ years. I might play occasional Halo 3(BC) matches but I hate Halo TMCC. It just draws skill gap problems between players.

TMCC is the reason I'm am negative about classic multiplayer. It's not fun for casual or inexperienced gamers. I have been playing video games for 10 years but multiplayer for a little over one year. This results in me dying a lot. The new Halos narrow skill gap and make a more enjoyable experience for me.
Sprint should be in the upcoming halo because humans can sprint so why should the spartans not sprint
But Spartans are not just humans. They are supersoldiers with superhuman abilities, so they should really be able to shoot and maintain accuracy while running at full speed.
Richnj wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
It's the whole reason Bungie gave us regenerating shields, and why it was changed from a medi-pack system to a shield system. It was more fun that way.
It's a good system, but I hated the fact that they removed health system from Halo: CE, and replaced it with a regenerating health system in Halo 2 and 3. That was stupid. They brought it back in Reach (and ODST, with Stamina in place of Shields), but while only a small portion of your health would regenerate, along with your shields, it shouldn't regenerate at all.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
No, it shouldn't. Do you know how capable Spartans are? If gameplay was 100% influenced by lore, you would have an incredibly unbalanced game that is not only "not fun", but would have abysmal game design. Lore should only dictate the Campaign. By the way, the art style of Halo 4 and 5 is terrible in my eyes. Classic Halo had a distinctive art style with subtle religious/Marathon themes in it which separated it from other science fiction at the time. Those two game don't stand out much, aside from Halo's iconic weapons, factions, and characters.
Quote:
Halo 2(TMCC) irritates me because of the BR and the experienced gamers who have been playing for 10+ years. I might play occasional Halo 3(BC) matches but I hate Halo TMCC. It just draws skill gap problems between players
The Halo 2 BR has too much Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism to begin with, so the overall skill-gap in that game is not as wide as, say, CE. The only skill-gap problem is that it wasn't wide enough. You're playing against people who might have been playing since launch day, or since 2004; that's not a skill-gap problem.

What pisses me off about this website is the notion that the CE Pistol is "overpowered" because "it's a pistol", yet people somehow think the Halo 2 BR isn't, despite its AA and BM, despite the poorly-balanced sandbox crippled by dual-wielding (unlike CE), despite the fact that it's easier to to get a perfect 4sk than a perfect 3sk, despite it being a hitscan weapon (unlike the Pistol in CE, which required you to lead your shots)...
Quote:
TMCC is the reason I'm am negative about classic multiplayer. It's not fun for casual or inexperienced gamers. I have been playing video games for 10 years but multiplayer for a little over one year. This results in me dying a lot. The new Halos narrow skill gap and make a more enjoyable experience for me.
Saying Classic Halo MP is not fun for casual players is like saying Call of Duty doesn't based its success around the casual market. Halo 1-3 were success because they did support casual players. If they were anything like Quake or Unreal, they wouldn't have the longevity they did during their prime years.
I agree, removing sprint would make it a true arena game. Although ground pound is barely ever used in high tier, unless you're literally a floor above someone and you know they are exiting but even then it isn't really done much. However I really think Thrust is good for the movement.
I really think Thrust is good for the movement.
Having CE and 2's Strafe Acceleration would be better. Out-strafing someone is much smarter and more subtle than just pressing a button to dodge left or right.
treycen777 wrote:
I really think Thrust is good for the movement.
Having CE and 2's Strafe Acceleration would be better. Out-strafing someone is much smarter and more subtle than just pressing a button to dodge left or right.
I respect that opinion and as much as that would be nice, I think thrusting brings more possibilities rather than just left or right. if people chase, ninjas happen and it shows you have to be smarter. You can make jumps that could help you save time. if you're high up and thrust forward your opponent might miss last shot if the angle is correct. See what I mean? Don't get me wrong strafing is still important now. If you outstrafe them and force them to thrust first you've basically already won
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
This falls apart and leads into a slippery slope very quickly. Having lore dictate gameplay means that you expect Spartans to be capable of doing anything a human can realistically do.

  • Like going prone
  • Or taking cover
  • Or using your hands in a fight instead of one punch at a time.
When you focus on lore to decide gameplay elements, you start to forget about the game.

If you want to use Halo's universe, you'd end up with a game you can't possibly make balanced. Spartans are capable of doing far more than the games show, and simply "Sprinting" isn't just an understatement.

A simple example, Chief was seen running in Halo 3's cutscenes, despite not being able to do the same in gameplay.

Chief was also seen locking his armor, but he didn't have the Armor Lock AA from Reach.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
So many times do we see this idea that lore or "real life" should influence how the game is played. There is so much wrong with this idea. We are asking for balance in the multiplayer, and a return to how the game should be played.

You say Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint. I say Spartans are superhuman and they already are working at a high rate of speed.
I completely believe that lore should influence the way the game plays. Spartans can't sprint now? No wonder so many Spartans died. Halo Reach sprint irritated me because it was an AA. I always thought, so Spartans need to pick this equipment up to do what all humans can already do. Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the game feels realistic(in it's own universe) and make me feel like a super soldier.

Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game and Halo 4 is my favorite. Halo 5 has a weak story but I love the gameplay. One thing I like that 343i does is that they make the game feel more real. The HUD, sprint, sound design, and art style.
Or maybe they are always sprinting, and are so good that they shoot and sprint at the same time? Lore shouldn't influence gameplay.
Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game
That doesn't really matter. My Grandma could play every Halo game, but that doesn't mean she's going to understand how they're balanced or unbalanced in multiplayer.

343 nerfed the hell out of sprint which is hilarious because it proves that it is a problem, but the root of the problem is still there and will never go away as long as it's in the game. But who cares about balance and map design I guess as long as people feel like "super soldiers". *rolls eyes*
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game
That doesn't really matter. My Grandma could play every Halo game, but that doesn't mean she's going to understand how they're balanced or unbalanced in multiplayer.

343 nerfed the hell out of sprint which is hilarious because it proves that it is a problem, but the root of the problem is still there and will never go away as long as it's in the game. But who cares about balance and map design I guess as long as people feel like "super soldiers". *rolls eyes*
The point of a game is for fun. So, yes I want to feel like a super soldier. I don't play games so everyone can over analyze something as simple as sprint. I just play multiplayer for a good time, I'm not a professional athlete that is worried if every fight is completely fair and balanced. I have no idea why people think that sprint even changes the game that much. Why is it controversial enough to justify 724 pages of debate? So what, just s boost to speed at the cost to shooting. Make a decision, shoot or move faster.
The point of a game is for fun. So, yes I want to feel like a super soldier. I don't play games so everyone can over analyze something as simple as sprint. I just play multiplayer for a good time, I'm not a professional athlete that is worried if every fight is completely fair and balanced. I have no idea why people think that sprint even changes the game that much. Why is it controversial enough to justify 724 pages of debate? So what, just s boost to speed at the cost to shooting. Make a decision, shoot or move faster.
I'd argue that a game is supposed to deliver an experience of sorts, then you as a user / player / consumer decide if it's fun or not. Or if it's what you're looking for.
As tsassi pointed out in a response to SylvanFoot7, shouldn't a superhuman with super abilities be able to move at maximum speed and retain perfect accuracy? Or what I asked of you regarding the Lore that you talked about.
Which brings me to another point, you're sitting here with 700+ pages on the sprint topic, with a plethora of older ones available as well for you to read and ponder on.
You have no idea? Well then read up on it, see what others are saying about it, you don't need to read every single page, jump to random ones and scan them through, you're bound to find someone talking about how it changes the game, how it changes the experience. Or, if you do not care enough to find out, do some research, about the subject, why are you here? And no, it's not "just" a boost of speed at the cost of shooting.
As far as balance goes, you may not care about it that much, but even if you disregard it, you are subject of its influence and thus it will affect your experience of the game, if you like the experience, then great, but remember that your posts, opinions and arguments will be questioned when you enter a thread and spill them out.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Before anybody says, "you obviously never played the older Halos", I have played every Halo game
That doesn't really matter. My Grandma could play every Halo game, but that doesn't mean she's going to understand how they're balanced or unbalanced in multiplayer.

343 nerfed the hell out of sprint which is hilarious because it proves that it is a problem, but the root of the problem is still there and will never go away as long as it's in the game. But who cares about balance and map design I guess as long as people feel like "super soldiers". *rolls eyes*
The point of a game is for fun. So, yes I want to feel like a super soldier. I don't play games so everyone can over analyze something as simple as sprint. I just play multiplayer for a good time, I'm not a professional athlete that is worried if every fight is completely fair and balanced. I have no idea why people think that sprint even changes the game that much. Why is it controversial enough to justify 724 pages of debate? So what, just s boost to speed at the cost to shooting. Make a decision, shoot or move faster.
Things that are fun are usually balanced so they can remain fun.

I could say the same thing to you. I don't know why you believe that swinging your arms back and forth means you're moving faster.

Why do we need this decision? We never had it before. You were given speed and shooting.
treycen777 wrote:
Richnj wrote:
Played all the Halos but I like sprint bc it’s a realistic option. Spartans are superhuman and humans can sprint.
It's the whole reason Bungie gave us regenerating shields, and why it was changed from a medi-pack system to a shield system. It was more fun that way.
It's a good system, but I hated the fact that they removed health system from Halo: CE, and replaced it with a regenerating health system in Halo 2 and 3. That was stupid. They brought it back in Reach (and ODST, with Stamina in place of Shields), but while only a small portion of your health would regenerate, along with your shields, it shouldn't regenerate at all.
Well obviously "fun" is subjective.

The point I was making is that it was changed from a design choice. Bungie wanted to keep the combat flowing, and they wanted to keep every fight equal. By keeping the medi-pack system it left players at the mercy of previous fights. Potentially slowing down the pace by forcing players to look for health packs, or losing your next fight because you took too much damage in the last fight.

For competitive games, and faster action, having fully regenerating health is the best mechanic for that gameplay design.

Obviously it is not the be-all and end-all of health systems.

LUKEPOWA wrote:
The point of a game is for fun. So, yes I want to feel like a super soldier. I don't play games so everyone can over analyze something as simple as sprint. I just play multiplayer for a good time, I'm not a professional athlete that is worried if every fight is completely fair and balanced. I have no idea why people think that sprint even changes the game that much. Why is it controversial enough to justify 724 pages of debate? So what, just s boost to speed at the cost to shooting. Make a decision, shoot or move faster.
1) The point of any game is fun. Including real life games/sports. Some people like to play these games competitively. Some go too seriously, but for most, trying to win is all part of the fun. Playing a game and having teammates look at walls, drive vehicles in circles etc, is not fun. The aim of the game is to win. Classic Halo had a huge skill gap but balanced itself out by ranking people and then matching them together in matches. It leveled the playing field through ranks, not gameplay, to make itself very fun. The reason you aren't enjoying Halo 2 on MCC is because the match making system does not match you against people playing on your level. The system is too broken, and the population is too small.

You admit you've only play MP for 1 year, so you are missing the experiences to compare classic MP (done right) vs modern MP (done randomly). Modern MP don't match you properly because the population counts are too low. So they make up for it by making the games random. This is an attempt to make low level players compete with high level players. It's a answer to a problem that was already solved through proper match making.

2) Fair and balanced MP is what makes games fun. If every game you played, you got steam rolled, you wouldn't find it fun and you would soon quit. So you don't need to be a professional athlete to have an interest in the MP being fair and balanced.

3) In those 724 pages are some very good arguments against sprint. There's also a ton of repeating of those arguments because people keep coming in here saying "I've not read any of the previous pages but I like sprint so I think it should stay", and then people like me have to condense those arguments in a reply for the new commenters to actually read. Which quite frankly is insulting, because if you aren't going to try read the comments to understand the argument you are trying to counter with a personal preference you are just wasting everyone's time.

But for sprint itself. As I said on the previous page. Video games aren't about replicating the real world. They are about creating a world that runs on its own rules. Part of these include things like grenade damage, explosion radius, kill times, ranges of engagements, bullet magnetism, and this list goes on and on. Nothing is on accident. Its a highly controlled world. Throwing in a mechanic like sprint has an effect on everything you've built before. All of a sudden players are sprinting out of grenade ranges, our of combat before they are killed etc, and all that extends the kill times. Then that has an effect of the length of matches, so you add in a delay to shields when sprinting, (again) etc. What you've effectively done is add in a mechanic that changes your game on a base level.The ability to move AND shoot helped give rise to Halo's team work, because you could move and control the map while also shooting at the enemy. You didn't have to choose between moving to a team mate and shooting at the guy he's fighting with. You could do both.

The short of it is Halo 5 adds far more complexity, but isn't all that much more fun or deep. That's an issue and sprint is on of those complexity layers (the worst one since it then also leads on to abilities), and these extra complexity layers are actually off-putting for most players. This is one of the biggest reasons for Halo's decline in population. The casual audience that once enjoyed the game, no longer enjoy it.

4) Understanding why you don't find something fun is the first step to making it fun. So I'll start you off small. Watch this.
Richnj wrote:
The point of a game is for fun. So, yes I want to feel like a super soldier. I don't play games so everyone can over analyze something as simple as sprint. I just play multiplayer for a good time, I'm not a professional athlete that is worried if every fight is completely fair and balanced. I have no idea why people think that sprint even changes the game that much. Why is it controversial enough to justify 724 pages of debate? So what, just s boost to speed at the cost to shooting. Make a decision, shoot or move faster.
The short of it is Halo 5 adds far more complexity, but isn't all that much more fun or deep. That's an issue and sprint is on of those complexity layers (the worst one since it then also leads on to abilities), and these extra complexity layers are actually off-putting for most players. This is one of the biggest reasons for Halo's decline in population. The casual audience that once enjoyed the game, no longer enjoy it.

4) Understanding why you don't find something fun is the first step to making it fun. So I'll start you off small. Watch this.
Great post, I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I fear if someone can't be bothered to read up on a subject, and try and understand it a little more than your post won't be received well either.

For quite some time I have been indifferent when it came to Sprint. I started with Reach multiplayer, and always used the Sprint loadout so basically I have been playing Halo with Sprint since my beginning. I have been following the debate since then, and I didn't really come down on one side or the other.

However, it is more recently that I made a decision to be more involved with this and other debates on how the future of Halo should look. "If you don't vote you have no right to complain."

I liked the video that you left, but I wonder if that will even make a dent in the well of misunderstanding that runs deep. Some would come in here and argue that Halo, with Sprint, is not too complex. I would leave something like this, and hope that 7 mins isn't too long for the disillusioned.

I say all this to give hope. There have been those who have changed their minds in regards to Sprint. I was on the fence before, and now I am an advocate for the true Halo. This debate and discussion should continue on into Halo 6. Here's to 1,000 more pages!
To all of you anti sprint players, show me a current successful shooter that has no sprint on consoles.
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