Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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Keep sprint but take away spartan charge...
Remove sprint
Keep Spartan Charge, make it require you to charge it like a Spartan Laser.

Why keep sprint?
Naqser wrote:
Zeezke99 wrote:
didn't even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn't mean its not Halo. It's one whole mechanic, that's it. If you don't like sprint, don't sprint. Problem solved.
Except the maps are purposefully stretched out to accompany sprint, so that stretched maps will have the same sprint travel time as a non stretched map with just walking. So
not sprinting is punishing because the game had to be made around it.
Campaign maps aren't. God I wish I could have had sprint on some old campaign misions(Looking at you Two Betrayals)
Nope just on truth an reconciliation for me I hate that one
Adressing specific issues with a blanket.

Perhaps the missions were the size they were meant to be to showcase the sheer scale of the ring/ships. Or feelings, walking alone in the big tunnel in Two Betrayals, made me feel like it was hopeless and made me feel lonely.Bringing in Sprint, could at best have made these "oh so boring treks" somewhat faster.
But you need to remember that sprint is in the entire game and it'd have affected other parts of the game.
At worst you'd have even larger campaign maps because Bungie wanted you to feel and experience the same emotions and feelings no matter what, and hastily sprinting those sections through quickly wouldn't have given the same emotional impact. Then also sprint affecting the other parts of the game.

Map design issues are not solved by implementing a global mechanic.
This is how I tend to view those missions as well. People who use those campaign scenarios when arguing for sprint (IMO) aren't giving enough thought to the simple fact that if Bungie had actually wanted you to traverse those long open areas more quickly they didn't need sprint to make that possible. A few well placed abandoned vehicles would suffice perfectly.
Naqser wrote:
Zeezke99 wrote:
didn't even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn't mean its not Halo. It's one whole mechanic, that's it. If you don't like sprint, don't sprint. Problem solved.
Except the maps are purposefully stretched out to accompany sprint, so that stretched maps will have the same sprint travel time as a non stretched map with just walking. So
not sprinting is punishing because the game had to be made around it.
Campaign maps aren't. God I wish I could have had sprint on some old campaign misions(Looking at you Two Betrayals)
Nope just on truth an reconciliation for me I hate that one
Adressing specific issues with a blanket.

Perhaps the missions were the size they were meant to be to showcase the sheer scale of the ring/ships. Or feelings, walking alone in the big tunnel in Two Betrayals, made me feel like it was hopeless and made me feel lonely.Bringing in Sprint, could at best have made these "oh so boring treks" somewhat faster.
But you need to remember that sprint is in the entire game and it'd have affected other parts of the game.
At worst you'd have even larger campaign maps because Bungie wanted you to feel and experience the same emotions and feelings no matter what, and hastily sprinting those sections through quickly wouldn't have given the same emotional impact. Then also sprint affecting the other parts of the game.

Map design issues are not solved by implementing a global mechanic.
This is how I tend to view those missions as well. People who use those campaign scenarios when arguing for sprint (IMO) aren't giving enough thought to the simple fact that if Bungie had actually wanted you to traverse those long open areas more quickly they didn't need sprint to make that possible. A few well placed abandoned vehicles would suffice perfectly.
Exactly placed vehicles instead. Then spots that wont allow vehicle access, leading to exciting(not being sarcastic) times trying to get warthogs and tanks over barriers. I cant believe this thread is still going. I think I agree that sprint is just not Halo.
i think Sprint is good for halo. you can get to your teammates quicker but i do think (Dont we have unlimited sprint currently?) that sprint should have a timer just like overshield and active camo.
Speaking of campaign, if you want me to feel immersed then get rid of sprint. When I'm sprinting, I lose the suspense and excitement that comes with the anticipation of what's coming next or around the corner because I'm mainly focused on just getting from A to B in a hurry. I don't focus on the beauty or disgust of the surrounding environment or the little things that can make a map great and it keeps me more at a distance instead of embracing what's around me. You can try to make me feel like a super soldier, but I first need to believe that I'm a soldier in the world you put me in and sprinting doesn't help with that.

I know vehicles can have a similar argument, but I'm referring to everywhere on a map.
i think Sprint is good for halo. you can get to your teammates quicker but i do think (Dont we have unlimited sprint currently?) that sprint should have a timer just like overshield and active camo.
Refer back to the 773 other pages of discussion on why having higher BMS does the exact same thing, but also enables you to shoot at the same time/doesn't shoot hitscan weapons in the foot.
i think Sprint is good for halo. you can get to your teammates quicker but i do think (Dont we have unlimited sprint currently?) that sprint should have a timer just like overshield and active camo.
And if map travel times are scaled to acommodate the faster speed?
5 seconds to reach something will be the same 5 seconds in Halo 3 and Halo 5.
Furthermore, Halo 5 BMS was increased and the delta between BMS and Sprint was decreased
Sprint does not help you get places faster than the map designer intended.
Naqser wrote:
i think Sprint is good for halo. you can get to your teammates quicker but i do think (Dont we have unlimited sprint currently?) that sprint should have a timer just like overshield and active camo.
And if map travel times are scaled to acommodate the faster speed?
5 seconds to reach something will be the same 5 seconds in Halo 3 and Halo 5.
Furthermore, Halo 5 BMS was increased and the delta between BMS and Sprint was decreased
Sprint does not help you get places faster than the map designer intended.
I don't think getting to teammates quickly is a good thing for halo, even in BTB the maps aren't large and teammates are usually a stones throw away. Unless your completely in the enemies territory, then players should have to deal with that risk. A game with less dead time running around is the more ideal option imo, i just can't see the fun in it.
I feel like it should be a base ability but it shouldn't be infinite like in the game. Like maybe a REQ ability that allows it to become infinite. I never truly had a problem with it H: Reach or now, but I understand how people don't want this.
All I want is an explanation in the lore to why or how we can run. Like Spartan armor is just that powerful now or we sacrifice speed for protection.
I feel like it should be a base ability but it shouldn't be infinite like in the game. Like maybe a REQ ability that allows it to become infinite. I never truly had a problem with it H: Reach or now, but I understand how people don't want this.
All I want is an explanation in the lore to why or how we can run. Like Spartan armor is just that powerful now or we sacrifice speed for protection.
You're basically describing Speed Boost, which we already have in Halo 5.
Hopefully the mcc update will be something to be excited for. After three years, they'll have to do something big to get the game popular again.
Naqser wrote:
i think Sprint is good for halo. you can get to your teammates quicker but i do think (Dont we have unlimited sprint currently?) that sprint should have a timer just like overshield and active camo.
And if map travel times are scaled to acommodate the faster speed?
5 seconds to reach something will be the same 5 seconds in Halo 3 and Halo 5.
Furthermore, Halo 5 BMS was increased and the delta between BMS and Sprint was decreased
Sprint does not help you get places faster than the map designer intended.
I honestly find it hard to believe how many people either don't think about this, or just seem to hand wave this argument away, and yet they otherwise seem to have given at least some thought to their argument to support sprint.

It's pretty common knowledge (I believe) that part of level design and testing involves having play testers actually time how long it takes to get from any/every spawn point to any/every tactical point on a given map. For games with power weapon spawns and vehicle spawns, this has to be given particular attention. Distances between vehicle/weapon spawns and other advantageous map locations are also scrutinized to make sure they're placed strategically so that 'Team A' won't have a particular advantage over 'Team B' because of where they spawn. It's a staple of game design and it nullifies the argument that sprint is "needed" to get... well... anywhere quicker.

I absolutely agree, you're not getting anywhere 'quicker' than the devs have planned, sprint or no sprint. If they want spawn point 'X' to be 7 seconds from base/weapon/vehicle/power up/etc. 'Y' then those points will be placed or spaced at appropriate distances so that it takes 7 seconds to travel, going at the fastest speed you're capable of.
Does anybody know exactly what 343 is trying to accomplish? With the success of that one game that I can't talk about, I think it's pretty clear that there is a much greater demand for classic Halo within the Halo community, if it wasn't clear enough already. I'm sitting here scratching my head because I just can't underrated why the franchise continues to go in this direction, I don't see what there is to gain from intentionally ignoring the communities outcries for change. I do appreciate the attention towards mcc, but in the end it's still just a collection of games that I've played to death. I'd really just love them to make one classic Halo game to see how well it does. Even if Halo isn't a console seller anymore that doesn't appeal to the general demographic, there's really no point in jumping on the latest fad and splitting the games current demographic. Sorry if this post sounds whiny by the way lol, I'm not as well spoken as most of you guys here.
Itz Nater wrote:
Does anybody know exactly what 343 is trying to accomplish? With the success of that one game that I can't talk about, I think it's pretty clear that there is a much greater demand for classic Halo within the Halo community, if it wasn't clear enough already. I'm sitting here scratching my head because I just can't underrated why the franchise continues to go in this direction, I don't see what there is to gain from intentionally ignoring the communities outcries for change. I do appreciate the attention towards mcc, but in the end it's still just a collection of games that I've played to death. I'd really just love them to make one classic Halo game to see how well it does. Even if Halo isn't a console seller anymore that doesn't appeal to the general demographic, there's really no point in jumping on the latest fad and splitting the games current demographic. Sorry if this post sounds whiny by the way lol, I'm not as well spoken as most of you guys here.
Frankly, I think it's more Microsoft pushing them to add things like Sprint, Spartan Charge, and various other abilities. Microsoft wants Halo to remain mainstream, not be unique. They think that homogenization of the series will increase sales.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part. Maybe 343 really likes these new mechanics, but I would not be surprised at all if a 343 dev came in here and said that Microsoft was the one who pushed them into adding Spartan Abilities.
Delta5931 wrote:
Itz Nater wrote:
Does anybody know exactly what 343 is trying to accomplish? With the success of that one game that I can't talk about, I think it's pretty clear that there is a much greater demand for classic Halo within the Halo community, if it wasn't clear enough already. I'm sitting here scratching my head because I just can't underrated why the franchise continues to go in this direction, I don't see what there is to gain from intentionally ignoring the communities outcries for change. I do appreciate the attention towards mcc, but in the end it's still just a collection of games that I've played to death. I'd really just love them to make one classic Halo game to see how well it does. Even if Halo isn't a console seller anymore that doesn't appeal to the general demographic, there's really no point in jumping on the latest fad and splitting the games current demographic. Sorry if this post sounds whiny by the way lol, I'm not as well spoken as most of you guys here.
Frankly, I think it's more Microsoft pushing them to add things like Sprint, Spartan Charge, and various other abilities. Microsoft wants Halo to remain mainstream, not be unique. They think that homogenization of the series will increase sales.

Of course, this is pure speculation on my part. Maybe 343 really likes these new mechanics, but I would not be surprised at all if a 343 dev came in here and said that Microsoft was the one who pushed them into adding Spartan Abilities.
I'd be really surprised by that kind of micromanagement. If Microsoft had any involvement in this, I'd find it more likely that at some point a project needs to get a green light from the publisher, and it's easier to get a green light for something safe than for something unique. Because it really is more about safety than anything. I doubt any publisher thinks that they have the next Call of Duty in their hands when they fund another formulaic shooter. What they do have is a well-tested concept that is known to sell, so it is likely to have reasonable sales, and is unlikely to be a huge flop.

In other words, you can be much more confident about how such a game will perform than you can be about a game that does something truly different. And when you have game budgets in the tens if not hundreds of millions, as a publisher, you really want that safety. That's why the triple-A industry is so unbelievably boring, and games that become huge cultural phenomena usuallyaren't triple-A games from the start. The triple-A industry is not a place for unique ideas to get a chance.
I remember a short story written by BS Angel after the launch of Halo 4.
Basically, they had created a build for Halo and showcased it to some suits.
It played like classic Halo, but the suits hadn't given them the reaction they wanted.
They knew they could create a "Halo" game, but they wanted the "Woow" from the suits.
The build was scrapped and work on Halo 4 began.

Consider that these companies are at the whims of the shareholders. These want money, and from what I've understood after reading some stuff regarding Nintendo shareholders, many of them have no clue about anything gaming. They own shares because there's money involved.
Part of the reason why the AAA gaming environment is what it is today, explained by tsassi.

Edit. Found the text. Don't know the credibility on this site, to take it with a pinch of salt?
Naqser wrote:
I remember a short story written by BS Angel after the launch of Halo 4.
Basically, they had created a build for Halo and showcased it to some suits.
It played like classic Halo, but the suits hadn't given them the reaction they wanted.
They knew they could create a "Halo" game, but they wanted the "Woow" from the suits.
The build was scrapped and work on Halo 4 began.
Do you have a link to it? I don't remember seeing that. The only similar quote that I remember is the one linked below.
Quote:
One of the earlier ones that Holmes recalls was when the team completed a small piece of the Halo experience that he described as a "very traditional" Halo. User research showed that people thought it was a lot of fun, and it showed that the team was capable of making a Halo game that was true to what the series was about.

343 scrapped it, Holmes says, as it was too traditional. But that first build showed the new team that this amalgamation of different studio cultures could work together and achieve a common goal.
Link.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Naqser wrote:
I remember a short story written by BS Angel after the launch of Halo 4.
Basically, they had created a build for Halo and showcased it to some suits.
It played like classic Halo, but the suits hadn't given them the reaction they wanted.
They knew they could create a "Halo" game, but they wanted the "Woow" from the suits.
The build was scrapped and work on Halo 4 began.
Do you have a link to it? I don't remember seeing that. The only similar quote that I remember is the one linked below.
Quote:
One of the earlier ones that Holmes recalls was when the team completed a small piece of the Halo experience that he described as a "very traditional" Halo. User research showed that people thought it was a lot of fun, and it showed that the team was capable of making a Halo game that was true to what the series was about.

343 scrapped it, Holmes says, as it was too traditional. But that first build showed the new team that this amalgamation of different studio cultures could work together and achieve a common goal.
Link.
That quote is basically a summary of what BS Angel wrote.
I however do not have a link, tried looking for it for ages, as it was written here on Waypoint. Though it was a long time ago, and the news now only stretch back as far as to 2014, around the time she stepped down.
At some point before that waypoint got a major overhaul and from what I recall, lots of stuff was removed.

If memory serves, she was talking about cramped spaces and people working in the wierdest of places, in that building
Itz Nater wrote:
Does anybody know exactly what 343 is trying to accomplish? With the success of that one game that I can't talk about, I think it's pretty clear that there is a much greater demand for classic Halo within the Halo community, if it wasn't clear enough already. I'm sitting here scratching my head because I just can't underrated why the franchise continues to go in this direction, I don't see what there is to gain from intentionally ignoring the communities outcries for change. I do appreciate the attention towards mcc, but in the end it's still just a collection of games that I've played to death. I'd really just love them to make one classic Halo game to see how well it does. Even if Halo isn't a console seller anymore that doesn't appeal to the general demographic, there's really no point in jumping on the latest fad and splitting the games current demographic. Sorry if this post sounds whiny by the way lol, I'm not as well spoken as most of you guys here.
What do you think the community want in their "classic" Halo ? Just going back ten years or so won't make me happy, I would not buy it as I already own it.

I want the older visuals, more blood splatters, the old look armour, better customisation, playable elites etc etc. I also want a better btb with 12v12, 24v24 without reqs. However, I don't want the likes of the Halo 3 game play speed. Going back to Halo 3 after Halo 5 makes it feel like treading water, I would drop sprint and increase the base movement speed. We all have different visions of our dream Halo. I want older visuals with faster game play. I would hate to be 343i tbh.
eviltedi wrote:
Itz Nater wrote:
Does anybody know exactly what 343 is trying to accomplish? With the success of that one game that I can't talk about, I think it's pretty clear that there is a much greater demand for classic Halo within the Halo community, if it wasn't clear enough already. I'm sitting here scratching my head because I just can't underrated why the franchise continues to go in this direction, I don't see what there is to gain from intentionally ignoring the communities outcries for change. I do appreciate the attention towards mcc, but in the end it's still just a collection of games that I've played to death. I'd really just love them to make one classic Halo game to see how well it does. Even if Halo isn't a console seller anymore that doesn't appeal to the general demographic, there's really no point in jumping on the latest fad and splitting the games current demographic. Sorry if this post sounds whiny by the way lol, I'm not as well spoken as most of you guys here.
What do you think the community want in their "classic" Halo ? Just going back ten years or so won't make me happy, I would not buy it as I already own it.

I want the older visuals, more blood splatters, the old look armour, better customisation, playable elites etc etc. I also want a better btb with 12v12, 24v24 without reqs. However, I don't want the likes of the Halo 3 game play speed. Going back to Halo 3 after Halo 5 makes it feel like treading water, I would drop sprint and increase the base movement speed. We all have different visions of our dream Halo. I want older visuals with faster game play. I would hate to be 343i tbh.
I don't think anybody wants to go back 10 years or to Halo 3's movement. When I say classic Halo I'm just talking about the classic formula. No fads, no gimmicks, just Halo. Innovate by adding to the experience rather than changing it altogether.
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