Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

The sprint discussion thread

OP Gandalfur

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Naqser wrote:
If we were to take the hypothetical scenario that both bms and sprint was actually slower than the original trilogy's bms, you wouldn't get anywhere slower in terms of time.
If you were to make the bms, and sprint slower, but play on the exact H5 maps we have today. It'd take much more time to travel, and games would probably last longer. Not entirely sure what you meant by velocity, because if both sprint and bms speed is slower, velocity would also be slower. It'd change the gameplay quite a lot, and certain map strategies would no longer work either.

Naqser wrote:
If we want to ponder about the competitive scene coming back, which time frame are we talking about?
Technically speaking the "competitive scene" has always existed, it was even there during H4. When people talk about the competitive scene coming back, they're talking about it getting massively popular again. During both Reach, and 4, the competitive scene may as well been dead in terms of actual popularity. (think of this as more of an understatement, because it really wasn't as bad as people make it out to be).

Naqser wrote:
So, my encounters with such headlines has been this, when Halo 5 released, there were some headlines regarding Halo 5's tournaments, however as of late, I haven't seen any tournament articles regarding Halo 5, however Halo 3 has seen a comeback, to my surprise.
Not really sure how you've missed all the headlines, because 343 post about them quite often. They also pop up all the time on the main HCS Twitter account to. Plenty of other places as well.

The main HCS events for H5 just ended at the end of last year to and was quite a big thing for a lot of people as well. To 343, H5 is now considered a legacy competitive title (just like all the other Halo titles) and it's competitive tournaments are now funded by the Halo: Grassroots stuff. H5 tournaments are still going on to this day even as well under the Grassroots program, and many of those H1-3 tournaments you hear about are also done under Grassroots.
Naqser wrote:
I do remember some bigger names did comment on it, not being that impressed with sprint, back in the day.
Most teams hated Reach's implementation of it, along with Reach's gun design, map layouts, bloom, and more. That's kinda where all the hate for Sprint even comes from in the 1st place.

Naqser wrote:
So any game which has a lot of stuff going on at once, what kind of stuff exactly?
A Halo CE 4v4 Slayer match on Rat's Nest with first to 50 kills ending faster than a Halo 5's Slayer Match on Empire doesn't mean Halo CE would be faster paced because there's still more actions happening per minute and mechanics going off in Halo 5?
Fast-Paced generally applies to the entire game, not game time. Fast-Paced involves every single object, weapon, bullet, spartans moving, etc.
Fast paced = including a lot of different things happening quickly. Rats nest doesn't even exist in Halo CE, it's only in Halo 3, so not entirely sure why you brought that map up. Also, 4v4's? Isn't that an 8v8 map? I can't help but wonder if you meant Rat Race instead.

BTW, match length time is not a valid argument to base something on at all, as match length time can vary widely and is highly dependent on each individuals players skill, how much they hide behind cover, spawn system, and more. It's just way to many variables to consider when determining match length time as a candidate for "fast-paced". Doom and Quake for example is known to be extremely fast-paced, but competitive matches can vary anywhere from 8 minutes, to 15 minutes, and even above this. Something like Tribes matches can last hours even, but is considered to be the fastest paced one of them all.
Why would something that has competitive matches which go way above the 30 minute mark, be considered the god of fast paced titles? Wouldn't make sense if game time determined whether a game was fast paced or not.
Naqser wrote:
The longer you sprint the more value you get out of it, but that means sprinting for a considerable amount of time. As you won't get much out of it sprinting for 1 second or 2 as the distance difference between bms and sprint at that short of a usage is barely noticeable.
1 second in a fast paced competitive shooter is huge, like, really huge. That's quite a long difference, as positions on the maps can be changed in as little as 3-5 seconds. a 1-2 second difference is a pretty drastic change when including sprint, aka a huge value, so not entirely sure what you were going on about here.

Naqser wrote:
Yes, Halo 2 does lack sprinting animations for most weapons, could be though that the work on those animations wasn't continued as sprint was cut due to "pacing issues", never reaching further than prototyping.
Technically speaking it was already past prototyping, the animations were the last things that needed proper testing (you can tell because most of the animations are pretty awful). The animator himself even mentions that none of the animations got past said "testing phase" at all.As for the so called pacing issues stuff, honestly I can't find anything on that subject or with Marcus Lehto even stating it. Not even in the reddit source Gamecheat listed off in his video, it's just not there. I'd love to see where this was actually mentioned by one of the MP designers of H2 and the over-all balancing of the game, rather then a person who just did the animations and may of heard a thing or 2 about it. .
Naqser wrote:
So, you think that an integral part of the game, sprinting, was cut when the Map design teams for MP and SP were told that sprint would definately be there, with some very specific metrics for how it'd work?
Halo 2's development was generally really bad. 18 months from release they literally cut the entire engine, and started from scratch practically. The guy even says it was basically madness. Other ex-H2 dev's have been quoted saying the same thing as well about H2's development just being a chaotic mess.

Halo 3's development also apparently consisted of them being slammed for time (they had way to many ideas that never appeared in the full release that they already developed on, and had animations for and everything. Even entire missions, scrapped and gutted. I'm sure you know of this though if you've seen any of the H3 documentaries.)
Naqser wrote:
So, that assumption does lead me to believe, that 8 seconds in Halo CE, is infact, 8 seconds in any other Halo in existance.
I was under the impression that you were stating the base movement speed was identical from Halo 1, to 3. If this is truly the case, it'd take exactly 8 seconds (in the real world) to travel identical distances in Halo 1-3.
Let's say it only took me 5 seconds to travel 5 feet in Halo 1, if the base movement speed was identical in Halo 2, 3, and Reach, it should also only take me 5 seconds to travel 5 feet. If it takes me more time to travel the same distance, this would mean the BMS is slower. I've also seen other people state Reach's BMS is actually slightly slower even to, but I made another video which disproves this entirely.
Naqser wrote:
Video.
Halo CE picture.
Halo 3 Picture.
Halo Reach Picture.
Taking a look at the values in each game and seeing they are the same doesn't really prove anything, as 0.512 walking speed in Halo 1 could be 0.700 walking speed in Halo 3 due to how different the engines are. Here's the video I was talking about earlier which more or less proves just this, and BMS in H2 is actually identical to Reach's (despite everyone claiming it's actually slower), but H1's BMS is actually faster by 6-7 milliseconds give or take. The H1 test shown in the video was done on H1 MCC, but I did a comparison with H1 OG to and the time frame was also identical in time, down to the millisecond. I just didn't include the H1 OG comparison because I couldn't be bothered with editing out the splitscreen stuff/making it look nice in the video. (you can't start a H1 MP match without a second player being there as well, by LAN or by split screen.)

As for the video you show, the video I made doesn't really seem to agree with it at all. Either that, or the guy doing that test didn't account for the millisecond differences, because it's very obvious.
Naqser wrote:
Sprint belonging in Halo, "just like any other ability does", pretty much means that any other ability belongs in Halo, which happens to include all the ones I listed.
Any and all of those mechanics could very well have been on the drawing table for any Halo, as far as I'm concerned, it was never about "cut content".
Yes, any other ability that works in Halo's play style belongs in it for each specific title. People can claim "this ability doesn't belong in Halo" all they want, but it's not going to stop them from appearing in future Halo titles. I was referring to past abilities that were in Halo at one point, such as Equipment in H3, Armor abilities in Reach and 4, and finally the new Spartan Abilities in Halo 5. They all belong in Halo.
Naqser wrote:
Hello dual wielding, flinching, greande indicators, armor abilities, equipment, plenty of game modes.
Dual wielding wasn't scrapped, it was in H2, and H3. It never made the drawing board for Reach, and 343 hasn't seen any reason to add it back in since. Not only that, you said ability as in: armor abilities, etc, and dual wielding isn't exactly an "ability" more so a game mechanic. The same goes for grenade indicators.

Equipment was again, not scrapped, it simply got replaced with Armor abilities (in fact it's even called a alteration of equipment on the Halopedia page), and as far as I'm aware to Bungie, armor abilities are the upgraded version of equipment.

Not really sure what you were going on about with the "game mode" part, as many different game modes have existed in each Halo title, but the dominant one of them all is Slayer.

Naqser wrote:
Redefined? It's been nerfed again and again
Sprint hasn't gotten a single nerf in any of the Halo titles, what? How fast it is has changed from title to title yes, but the ability itself has never been nerfed in each specific title. It's movement speed has remained identical since launch in each title. This by definition does not qualify as a nerf.
Naqser wrote:
it's usability in some of its areas driven down
Usability has remained largely the same, if anything it's more useful in H5 then ever because it allows you to do certain jumps that would otherwise not be possible at all in the classic Halo design. I've seen long paths in H3 that could've easily been jumped over if Sprint was a thing. Sprint's usability involves jumping larger distances, and moving from point A to point B much faster. This hasn't changed, so how has the usability gone down?
Naqser wrote:
the major driving point for its inclusion from i343 was "player expectations".
Can I get a source for this?
Naqser wrote:
"Permanently" is quite a strong word to use, considering the many different things that have been said to be here to stay, only to get axed later.
By axed, you mean it doesn't show up in a new Halo title yes?

So far, Sprint has been in 3 different Halo First person shooter titles. That's basically as far as permanent goes when it comes to Halo. The BR has appeared in 4 different Halo First person shooter titles. Like Sprint, it's basically expected to appear in the next Halo title, and may as well be permanent.

Naqser wrote:
You do realise that increasing Halo 5's bms speed to 120% was not to mimic Halo 3? But to showcase that with an increased bms speed on Halo 5, you can, without sprint, reach the samish times to travel over a map similar to that of Halo 3's midship.
Samish times to travel? With 120% BMS in H5, your traveling over a much larger distance in a shorter amount of time, which just so happens to some-what match Halo 3's time to travel across Midship at it's base BMS speed.

By this logic, changing my BMS speed in H5 to 200%, the time to cross Glacier, just so happens to match the amount of time required to travel the map Valhalla in Halo 3 at 150%. Keep in mind these numbers I just made up don't actually mean anything. See how this just doesn't make any sense to do now? It's illogical at best, and doesn't show anything of the sort at all. This video shows the correct way to do it on the other hand.
Trust me, I am very aware of the exact base movement speeds in each Halo game.
This video shouldn't surprise you at all then. Nor should the 6-7 milisecond difference between Reach's BMS and Halo 1's BMS also surprise you. In fact, Halo 2's BMS seems to be identical/match that of Reach's entirely despite the common belief that Reach's BMS is somehow "slower" but it's not. Haven't managed to do the test with Halo 3 though, because I don't know of any proper Forged remakes of it in H3.
I even use those figures and compare them to real life scenarios explicitly to counter the "lore" argument and the belief that Chief walks no faster than a real life human.
Chief can walk faster then a real life Human if he chose to do so, but will purposely limit himself to walk slower depending on the situation so regular normal humans can keep up with him. You can see him doing this quite a lot in just about every instance he's seen walking alongside a "normal" human.

Using in-game figures to explain the "lore" though isn't exactly the smartest of ideas, because usually in-game stuff doesn't apply to the actual lore at all unless it's seen in a cut scene, or the books. This is getting off topic though, so either just don't reply to this part of the comment, or keep it simple honestly.

But to go with your comment, it would actually be more correct to say "older Halo games had faster base movement speed." Comparing the 3 older games (CE, 2, & 3) to the 3 newer games (Reach, 4, and 5), two out of the three newer Halo games have a slower base movement speed than the original trilogy.
Which of these Halo titles have a slower BMS? I just proved that CE's BMS is faster then H2's, and H2's BMS is identical to Reach's. Not sure on H4's yet (haven't done any test on it), but I have heard that H4's BMS is apparently identical to either H3's, or Reach's. Your wording here is still incorrect though, because it doesn't matter how many of the classic Halo titles there is which has a specifc BMS speed. If it's slower, then it's slower. Older Halo games have a slower base movement speed then H5 does.
Sprint is here to stay. I'd make no sense if we had a feature that regular soldiers do every day in war for almost a decade and go back to being overly nostalgic. If regular soldiers can run, so can genetically enhanced supersoldiers.
Sprint is here to stay. I'd make no sense if we had a feature that regular soldiers do every day in war for almost a decade and go back to being overly nostalgic. If regular soldiers can run, so can genetically enhanced supersoldiers.
It's a video game , in game mechanics don't need to make sense from a lore perspective as any narrative can be applied either in game or from outside sources , or in some cases not at all . So now we debunked that urban myth , sprint may or may not be here to stay as it's a game mechanic and the devs can add or take mechanics as they please , mechanics need to fit the sandbox and combat loop not the lore arguement
Nighterlev wrote:
Taking a look at the values in each game and seeing they are the same doesn't really prove anything, as 0.512 walking speed in Halo 1 could be 0.700 walking speed in Halo 3 due to how different the engines are.
Except we already know that World Units are consistent across the game and across each engine in the series. You can even check this with Forge, because using those coordinates World Units and Forge Units were interchangeable (except Halo 5 by a factor of 10). If the World Units are a constant, then the player's movement speed value in X game is also comparable to each other, because all it is is World Units/Time.

Which is what the video did and how the results match (within reason) to the values found in the game's files and showed in Naqser's pictures. Otherwise comparing Halo CE's 2.25 to Halo 5's 2.6 is useless because they represent two different incomparable units.

Nighterlev wrote:
Naqser wrote:
the major driving point for its inclusion from i343 was "player expectations".
Can I get a source for this?
I'm pretty sure he means this video.
Nighterlev wrote:
But to go with your comment, it would actually be more correct to say "older Halo games had faster base movement speed." Comparing the 3 older games (CE, 2, & 3) to the 3 newer games (Reach, 4, and 5), two out of the three newer Halo games have a slower base movement speed than the original trilogy.
If it's slower, then it's slower. Older Halo games have a slower base movement speed then H5 does.
You didn't have to bold that statement as if I was against it. No was was (directly) arguing against that. 2.6 > 2.25. Even the comment you quoted (and left out for some reason) said "Only Halo 5 has a faster Base Movement speed than the original series, and therefore the fastest in the entire series."
Except we already know that World Units are consistent across the game and across each engine in the series. You can even check this with Forge, because using those coordinates World Units and Forge Units were interchangeable (except Halo 5 by a factor of 10). If the World Units are a constant, then the player's movement speed value in X game is also comparable to each other, because all it is is World Units/Time.
The problem I find with this math is that it's basing it off Chief being 7 ft tall (at least according to the Halo CE link he posted). As far as I'm able to tell, Chief is different sizes in each Halo title, and even in the actual lore he's actually 7 ft and 2 inches tall. Without the armor, he's only 6 ft and 10 inches tall. The major problem I find with this is comparing Chief's height across each Halo title in-game, he's not the exact same size at all.

Another point is again, the base BMS speed in each Halo title seems to be different as well across identical distances. H3 didn't have this exact map so I couldn't make a direct comparison with it, and neither does H4. Might test it with a accurate Forge map later, or just use one of the many other base maps instead like The Pit in H3 and Pitfall in H4.

As I already said though, 0.512/2.25 walking speed/run forward is not the same in H2, as it is in H1 if H1 also has a max of 0.512/2.25 walking speed/run forward. H2 and Reach apparently have identical values though for speed, except in Reach you also have sprint which makes it just that much faster. So, considering H3 has 2.25 for run forward, it should be faster then Reach. Yet, if 2.25 is also the same in H2, then why does H2 and Reach have identical BMS speeds?
I'm pretty sure he means this video.
Watched the video, didn't find anything that said "player expectations" at all. They instead stated this: "Leaving it out of H5 would be ignoring a huge portion of the gaming demographics expectations so the call was made to include it. Additionally, we didn't want to create another resource to manage, this meant leaning towards infinite sprint, which in turn complemented giant battlegrounds in Warzone, our much hyped new multiplayer mode." They also discussed and used Sprint in order to balance the other Spartan abilities as well.
I'm pretty sure they've also discussed the Sprint ability in other places as well along with explaining it's balancing properly, like on the Waypoint News post.

Funny enough they were also going to include a "Boost jump" similar to Doom's 2016 "boost jump". Imagine if 343 included boost jump, people would've been calling Doom 2016 a copy of Halo 5's gameplay lmfao.
Just chiming in to say that I hope Halo Infinite does not include sprint.

Classic Halo proved that you do not need sprint to make an interesting shooter. Also, the devs having control over the pace of the player allows for better map design (as proved in many of the iconic maps from the original trilogy of games).

Reach proved that Sprint has a negative effect on map design by causing everything to be scaled up, leading to a slower paced game (despite the claims that sprint speeds up the pace of the game).

You cannot shoot while sprinting, so even if the map design is not influenced by it it still does not improve the pace of the game.

If you want to increase the pace of the game buff the base movement speed. EG: DOOM, Quake, Unreal Tourney, HALO MLG SETTINGS.
We know 343 is going to have a hard decision about keeping or removing sprint and they know that they can't please everyone at once. 343 will do what anyone would do, and that is please the majority. I have looked at a few polls from this website to see who exactly is the "majority". This probably isn't accurate since most of the Halo community doesn't visit the forums.
Poll 1
Poll 2
Poll 3
Poll 4
Poll 5
If you have looked at all the links you can see that keeping sprint is in the majority. That is why I think sprint will be in Infinite. I think it is pointless at this point to continue arguing about it at this point, just let what happens, happen. 343 will obviously do the best they can to please everyone so you can't blame them. If for some reason you are mad at them just think, what would you do if you were in their shoes? Let me tell you, making a decision like that isn't easy.
This probably isn't accurate since most of the Halo community doesn't visit the forums.
Correct. Communities can have varying results like a competitive community poll for example would very likely be in favor of no sprint so it would be unwise for 343 to use them in any kind of official results.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
This probably isn't accurate since most of the Halo community doesn't visit the forums.
Correct. Communities can have varying results like a competitive community poll for example would very likely be in favor of no sprint so it would be unwise for 343 to use them in any kind of official results.
Of course, we must also remember that the competitive community is still the minority. I do believe 343 said somewhere on a social stream or something that they make up about 30%. Of course that doesn't mean that all of the more social players want sprint so you are correct. That also means that not all competitive players want sprint removed, so, we shall see in Infinite.
Of course, we must also remember that the competitive community is still the minority. I do believe 343 said somewhere on a social stream or something that they make up about 30%. Of course that doesn't mean that all of the more social players want sprint so you are correct. That also means that not all competitive players want sprint removed, so, we shall see in Infinite.
If you want to see a bigger survey which polled multiple communities, then you should check this out. In reddit's poll which had almost a thousand participants, 43% said sprint didn't have a place in Halo while 29% said it does and 25% were a maybe. It's not anything official like I mentioned previously, but I think reddit is more of a mix of casual and competitive players.
If for some reason you are mad at them just think, what would you do if you were in their shoes?
Not put sprint in Halo.

Let me tell you, making a decision like that isn't easy.
On the contrary, it's ridiculously easy.
Not only were they hired to make Halo games, a franchise that traditionally doesn't have sprint, but they specifically decided to make their first game Halo 4, as in, a direct sequel to Halo 3.
Ergo, the correct decision would have been to actually base the game on Halo 3.
This really should have been a no-brainer.

As for after-the-fact... given that ever since sprint was introduced to the franchise, the online population plummeted (then followed by the sales), the logical thing is to remove it for the next game.
And I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case because of sprint, but the only way to actually find out is by releasing a game without gimmick advanced movement mechanics and see if the trend stops or even reverts.

It certainly doesn't help that every iteration of sprint has been consecutively worse than the last one.
"Hey, sprint in Reach broke the pacing of the game by allowing some players to just disengage from combat and punishes players who were about to win. It also breaks the synergy of movement and combat that Halo is based on. How do we fix that?"
"I know! Let's make sprint a default ability that everybody has! That'll surely take care of the problem..."
"Hmm.... nope. Actually it got worse because now all the players are escaping at the push of a button and running around the map like headless chicken instead of fighting. We need a better idea."
"I've got it: Let's make sprint infinite so players will never have to stop and fight again!"
"...."
This is a ridiculous discussion. At this point it’s pretty much mandatory that an fps game has sprint. There are a few exceptions but those are very rare cases and it depends on the game. Halo would be taking a huge step back and it clearly isn’t going to happen 343 would be insane to remove sprint for halo infinite

The only compromise I could see potentially would be a game mode or playlist that doesn’t have sprint to appease the minority. But there is 0% chance the base game and core modes have sprint disabled they would be setting themselves back a decade
This is a ridiculous discussion. At this point it’s pretty much mandatory that an fps game has sprint. There are a few exceptions but those are very rare cases and it depends on the game. Halo would be taking a huge step back and it clearly isn’t going to happen 343 would be insane to remove sprint for halo infinite

The only compromise I could see potentially would be a game mode or playlist that doesn’t have sprint to appease the minority. But there is 0% chance the base game and core modes have sprint disabled they would be setting themselves back a decade
I don't agree with you.
Mimicking the same mechanic as other fps make Halo a basic FPS like any others.
Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.
Celestis wrote:
Not put sprint in Halo.

Like I said earlier just in case you didn't see it, they would want to please as many people a possible.
Celestis wrote:
On the contrary, it's ridiculously easy.
Maybe for someone who doesn't own a franchise that is on the line, this decision would be easy.
Celestis wrote:
As for after-the-fact... given that ever since sprint was introduced to the franchise, the online population plummeted (then followed by the sales), the logical thing is to remove it for the next game.
And I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case because of sprint, but the only way to actually find out is by releasing a game without gimmick advanced movement mechanics and see if the trend stops or even reverts.

At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that's just my speculation.
Celestis wrote:
It certainly doesn't help that every iteration of sprint has been consecutively worse than the last one.
"Hey, sprint in Reach broke the pacing of the game by allowing some players to just disengage from combat and punishes players who were about to win. It also breaks the synergy of movement and combat that Halo is based on. How do we fix that?"
"I know! Let's make sprint a default ability that everybody has! That'll surely take care of the problem..."
"Hmm.... nope. Actually it got worse because now all the players are escaping at the push of a button and running around the map like headless chicken instead of fighting. We need a better idea."
"I've got it: Let's make sprint infinite so players will never have to stop and fight again!"
"...."
For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn't matter and wasn't a real problem compared to armor lock. You also must have forgot that even though you have infinite sprint in H4 you could see through walls! Not to mention a tracker on the player that killed you last. So, once again sprint wasn't really a big problem in my eyes. And what about H5? Was it worse because you could shoot the player to stop them from sprinting?

I just posted my opinion why I think 343 might put sprint in Infinite, I'm not trying to argue with you.
Like I said earlier just in case you didn't see it, they would want to please as many people a possible.
Sprint doesn't seem to do that. Even if it wasn't responsible for Halo's decline, it certainly didn't stop it. All it did was alienate a huge part of their fanbase.

Maybe for someone who doesn't own a franchise that is on the line, this decision would be easy.
No, the decision should be even easier when you own a franchise that is in decline: You revert to the last iteration when the franchise was healthy.

At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that's just my speculation.
How many "new players" are there exactly? And where are they? Because by numbers, we can tell that they aren't playing Halo...

Would it upset the people that enjoy NuHalo? Sure.
But at this point, they got way more to gain by trying to win back the people that they lost over the last decade.

For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn't matter and wasn't a real problem compared to armor lock.
Armor Lock wasn't in the competitive settings either, so I don't see the connection.
Besides, I don't care about MLG.

You also must have forgot that even though you have infinite sprint in H4 you could see through walls! Not to mention a tracker on the player that killed you last.
Just because there were other -Yoink- mechanics doesn't make this one less -Yoink-. That's whataboutism at its finest.

And what about H5? Was it worse because you could shoot the player to stop them from sprinting?
No, it was worse in spite of desprint.
Also, desprint doesn't even work 99% of the time because the game also adds thursters, allowing you to get behind cover instantaneously, then run away.

I just posted my opinion why I think 343 might put sprint in Infinite, I'm not trying to argue with you.
You also asked a question, which I answered.
And for somebody who doesn't want to argue with me, you certainly went to great lenghts trying to pick apart my reply.
YukiryuFR wrote:
Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.
I don't like the wording in this.
You were always able to run in Halo. You did it by pushing the stick all the way forward.
If you didn't want to run (for whatever reason) you just pushed it forward halfway.
The difference compared to sprint is that you don't need to arbitrarily lower you weapon and sacrifice combat readiness in order to reach your top speed.
This is also consistent with Halo lore, as Spartans are able to run and shoot at the same time.
The sprint mechanic, as it is currently implemented in the 343-games, is completely contradictory not only to Halo's basic gameplay foundation (run'n'gun) but also to the overall story.
Celestis wrote:
Sprint doesn't seem to do that. Even if it wasn't responsible for Halo's decline, it certainly didn't stop it. All it did was alienate a huge part of their fanbase.

Who said Halo is declining I'm pretty sure H5 was an incline from H4.
Celestis wrote:
No, the decision should be even easier when you own a franchise that is in decline: You revert to the last iteration when the franchise was healthy.

So that people would complain about it feeling the exact same as a previous game, ok.
Celestis wrote:
At this point I think the online population might plummet even more because of how many new players there are, but that's just my speculation.
How many "new players" are there exactly? I hardly see any...

Would it upset the people that enjoy NuHalo? Sure.
But at this point, they got way more to gain by trying to win back the people that they lost over the last decade.

Maybe not on the forums but, the new players are everywhere, it's time to open you eyes. Also, just in case you didn't see the last part I put it in italics and bold hopefully that will help. If not you may want to see an eye doctor and get some glasses or contacts. I like glasses because they look better but, that is your decision.
Celestis wrote:
For Reach sprint was not in MLG the competitive playlist so it didn't matter and wasn't a real problem compared to armor lock.
Armor Lock wasn't in the competitive settings either, so I don't see the connection.
Besides, I don't care about MLG.

*sigh I'm saying sprint isn't big compared to armor lock. You made it see like the only reason people escaped death was because of sprint.
Celestis wrote:
Just because there were other -Yoink- mechanics doesn't make this one less -Yoink-. That's whataboutism at its finest.

Oh, did I hit a sore spot? I'm sorry, do you want to talk about it?

Celestis wrote:
No, it was worse in spite of desprint.
Also, desprint doesn't even work 99% of the time because the game also adds thursters, allowing you to get behind cover instantaneously, then run away.

Desprint works all the time for me. Of course I do play smart and expect them to sprint away.

Celestis wrote:
You also asked a question, which I answered.
And for somebody who doesn't want to argue with me, you went to great lenghts trying to pick apart my reply.
Ok, you answered the question, what about the rest? What is a lenghts? Oh, you meant lengths haha. Well, for you it might take great lengths but, to me it is effortless all I'm doing is typing.
Who said Halo is declining I'm pretty sure H5 was an incline from H4.
H5G sold less than even Halo 3, even though both games released at the same time in the life cycle of their respective console and the XBone had more units sold (15M compared to the 360's 13M)
H5G consistently had almost half the amount of players (according to Xbox's own "most played" chart) than Halo 4 at the same time after release, which already had significantly less than Reach.

So that people would complain about it feeling the exact same as a previous game, ok.
Given how many people bought the Master Chief Collection, which is the exact same previous game (and was horrendously broken for years) I don't consider that an issue.

Maybe not on the forums but, the new players are everywhere
Just not playing the games, apparently.

Also, just in case you didn't see the last part I put it in italics and bold hopefully that will help. If not you may want to see an eye doctor and get some glasses or contacts. I like glasses because they look better but, that is your decision.
What? That you're speculating? Yeah, I saw that part. Even if I hadn't, it's blatantly obvious. So what?

*sigh I'm saying sprint isn't big compared to armor lock. You made it see like the only reason people escaped death was because of sprint.
No, I never said that. The difference is, the developers realized how atrocious armor lock is, so it was cut from all games afterwards.
Sprint on the other hand is just as bad (maybe even worse, because with armor lock, at least you're forced to stay in one place, so your opponent can still kill you after it's run out) but was expanded in each subsequent release.

Oh, did I hit a sore spot? I'm sorry, do you want to talk about it?
No, as long as you're sorry for strawmanning, I'm good.

Desprint works all the time for me. Of course I do play smart and expect them to sprint away.
Good for you. Guess you're the 1%, then.

Ok, you answered the question, what about the rest?
What rest?
Celestis wrote:
YukiryuFR wrote:
Not being able to run as been the core element of gameplay and a part of what makes Halo well Halo.
I don't like the wording in this.
You were always able to run in Halo. You did it by pushing the stick all the way forward.
If you didn't want to run (for whatever reason) you just pushed it forward halfway.
The difference compared to sprint is that you don't need to arbitrarily lower you weapon and sacrifice combat readiness in order to reach your top speed.
This is also consistent with Halo lore, as Spartans are able to run and shoot at the same time.
The sprint mechanic, as it is currently implemented in the 343-games, is completely contradictory not only to Halo's basic gameplay foundation (run'n'gun) but also to the overall story.
Sorry didn't knew how to put it into words but yeah Halo was more like how you move in Doom always running but at the same time keeping your gun pointed to you're ennemy unlike in other fps were you drop your gun (not literally, sorry can't find my word easily, I'm french) to run(or sprint).
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