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Weapon Tuning Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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I feel like perfectly accurate precision weapons was one of my biggest selling points for H5, and I'm sad to be losing that on several of them. I don't fault the reasoning behind the changes, but I do think the same goal could have been achieved through Aim-assist/Magnetism/Rate of Fire/Damage changes instead of adding randomness where previously there was none. For the time being I'm just glad HCS settings use Pistol-only starts.

Hopefully this isn't the last balance update we can move back towards spread-less precision weapons in the future.
Most changes I support or I'm indifferent to, although I'm a bit confused by the thought process behind the BR nerf.

https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/BlogPost/community-update/precisionweaponranges-86d277c1c47a4a9185181248bcbff9cf.jpg

There seems to be a fair amount of agreement that pre-tune BR > magnum because the magnum is much more difficult to use, and I recall that one of the primary reasons for the BR nerf was to make it more suitable as the starting weapon in 4v4 and/or FFA. The above chart confirms that the new BR will have noticeably less range than the magnum, and I speculate that it will be more difficult to use. On paper, I like those changes to the BR, but if BR starts are dead on arrival, then it doesn't seem like the BR nerf really accomplishes much outside of making BTB less campy.

Of course this is just speculation... I could be proved wrong in the next 48 hours....
Limeshake wrote:
I felt it to be a bit unnecessary to nerf the Energy Sword, Grenade Launcher, and Gunfighter magnum.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/703jau/this_is_what_the_tuning_update_should_have_fixed/The Grenade Launcher magnetism is far to strong and it is infuriating to me that the sandbox team didn't seem to consider that *maybe* the weapon being ridiculously easy to use while being an instant kill and long range while having a fairly fast projectile is why it's OP.

I mean come on. That magnetism is a joke.
Limeshake wrote:
Well personally I love most of the changes. I felt it to be a bit unnecessary to nerf the Energy Sword, Grenade Launcher, and Gunfighter magnum. I also think the Frag grenade doing at least 50% shield damage within range wasn't too great either. The Energy Sword is meant to have speed, I know it wasn't too huge of a speed nerf but it'll still decide your life in some situations. The Grenade Launcher I never had any problems with, not too OP or UP. The Gunfighter Magnum was supposedly nerfed at long range but when does anyone ever use it at long range? If you're able to actually kill someone with that small of a scope at long range you should be rewarded, but when did you ever see anyone doing that? If someone was going long range with a loudout weapon it was either the DMR or BR, I can't remember ever seeing someone trying to kill me at long range with a Magnum, except with the possibility of early game, really early. My biggest problem is with frag grenades, 50% damage to your shields if you're in the blast radius? Seriously? That's basically a guaranteed kill if you throw two grenades and the enemy is barely in the blast radius, Infections going to be hell for the Zombies. Other than those four I disagree with I think you did a perfect job at balancing the rest of the weapons. Thanks for looking into some weapons even two years after release, can't wait till the Oddball update!
I think you misunderstood the frag grenade change. Before the update, there was a blass radius that has damage fallout all the way to 1% of maximum damage, so even if you're in the effective range you could still get away almost scott free. But if you get hit in the effective range it should do a sizeable amount of damage, but it didn't. So the overall blast radius is reduced by 25% but the damage in the effective range always does 50% damage, so basically now if have to be more accurate with your grenades and you can't just throw a grenade in someone general direction and expect to get a kill.
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
How fast do you want the thing to kill? Automatics are easier weapons to use and are more forgiving to miss with than precision weapons.
The AR STILL has a par or faster perfect TTK than the perfect TTK of some of the precision weapons....
When a weapon is easier to use, it should kill slower and vise versa.

And frags don't do more damage... they basically just cut off the end of the damage fall-off area that would just "kiss" you, reset your shields and reveal your position without doing significant damage. That -Yoink- was annoying

Personally, i am going to withhold judgement on this until i actually play with them a lot and the rest of you should too....
Apoll0 wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Personally, i am going to withhold judgement on this until i actually play with them a lot and the rest of you should too....
*gasp* sound advice Is not welcome 'round these parts
Shin Vigor wrote:
l
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?

I was going make an opinion post after I had a chance to read everything closely, but I think I will take Apoll0's lead and wait until I play a bit first. I will also attempt to keep an open mind, since I have a skewed, non-objective view of the AR, and I am already slightly skeptical on the DMR.

Either way I can't wait to hop on today and try this out!
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?

I was going make an opinion before after I had a chance to read everything closely, but I think I will take Apoll0's lead and wait until I play a bit first. I will also attempt to keep an open mind, since I have a skewed, non-objective view of the AR, and I am already slightly skeptical on the DMR.

Either way I can't wait to hop on today and try this out!
No noob is going for or likely hitting many headshots with the AR... to make automatics headshot dependent is absurd because they need to be beginner and lower skill friendly

It makes no sense for the BR to have less range than the Magnum and also give it more spread.

Want to know how you kill Halo? Screw up the AR and BR royally.. congrats
I CAN GUARENTEE THIS:

Pre-update BR is slightly better than Magnum, and was switched out for Magnum at every opportunity, making it the 2nd-most-used weapon aside from Magnum.

There is significant risk that the updated BR will no lobger be better than (or possibly even as good as) the Magnum.

If the BR is no longer better than the Magnum, the variety of weapons utilized will plummet.

The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.

Even if the update succeeds in reducing role redundancy among non-Magnum weapons, all of these weapons have been nerfed equally (respective to each other), but disproportionally respective to the Magnum.

The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
esc1 wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?

I was going make an opinion before after I had a chance to read everything closely, but I think I will take Apoll0's lead and wait until I play a bit first. I will also attempt to keep an open mind, since I have a skewed, non-objective view of the AR, and I am already slightly skeptical on the DMR.

Either way I can't wait to hop on today and try this out!
No noob is going for or likely hitting many headshots with the AR... to make automatics headshot dependent is absurd because they need to be beginner and lower skill friendly

It makes no sense for the BR to have less range than the Magnum and also give it more spread.

Want to know how you kill Halo? Screw up the AR and BR royally.. congrats
Raising the skill gap is one the best things that they could do for this game.

Why wouldn't you be going for head shots? The bonus has been in the game since the beginning. That should be old hat by now.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
As a strong opponent of this update, I think I can safely say I'm impressed, and in spite of the reactions I garnered elsewhere by being critical, I feel as if I was listened to. While I still don't see the changes as necessary or important, what they have done appears to actually reflect some game-improving data. I will stand by my belief that the BR needed no nerfing, and that the fuel rod and beam rifle could have used a buff as opposed to what happened, but I no longer think this will be the consistency-crusher the initial proposal was.

Good job overall. I'm fine with the game as is, but after seeing what the update will truly entail, I think I'll be fine with it afterwards as well. I'll still have to change weapon layouts on my custom maps to keep them playing well, but what can you do.

One last thing- the addition of the more traditional sword is the best move of the entire update. Options are the name of the game. I just hope there are some visual differences to signal the differences in functionality.
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
200% is 200%. That's a heck of a lot. Granted we don't know exactly how this will feel yet, but basically I am commenting on him/her saying that this has ruined the weapon.

What kills me is it's saying that the player doesn't want to be challenged. They don't want to have to be more accurate and raise their skill with a particular weapon. I didn't want the Carbine to change. I loved that thing pre update, but I am ready for the challenge.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
200% is 200%. That's a heck of a lot. Granted we don't know exactly how this will feel yet, but basically I am commenting on him/her saying that this has ruined the weapon.

What kills me is it's saying that the player doesn't want to be challenged. They don't want to have to be more accurate and raise their skill with a particular weapon. I didn't want the Carbine to change. I loved that thing pre update, but I am ready for the challenge.
You're right that lessening the base damage and increasing the headshot damage (as well as making headshots harder to get) does better reward precise aim. I'm not disputing that.

I'd just like to see the damage values and a chart showing the RoF with # of frames between shots (noting time-to-shields, perfect kill, and sub-optimal kill). That information along with the knowledge that shields have 70 hp, armor has 45 hp, and melee deals 70 hp can allow for more informed suggestions.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
200% is 200%. That's a heck of a lot. Granted we don't know exactly how this will feel yet, but basically I am commenting on him/her saying that this has ruined the weapon.

What kills me is it's saying that the player doesn't want to be challenged. They don't want to have to be more accurate and raise their skill with a particular weapon. I didn't want the Carbine to change. I loved that thing pre update, but I am ready for the challenge.
There's two types of gamer out there. Ones that want things easier for them, and others who welcome challenges. In almost every other game, I prefer things easier. I just want the story, so I like easy mode in rpgs for example. But with halo 5, I welcome the challenge of learning new mechanics that have been tested to be balanced. Hell I used to avoid grabbing the sword/hammer, and I lagged far behind others in mastering the BR because I found them to be the easy way to play. Same for camping. Now I've wisened (and playing at platinum/diamond levels vs rly good people changed my mind quick... ) and use the full gamut of weapons available for any edge in combat.

OK that turned into a self centered rant. My mistake. But yeah tl;dr, I agree with you
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
200% is 200%. That's a heck of a lot. Granted we don't know exactly how this will feel yet, but basically I am commenting on him/her saying that this has ruined the weapon.

What kills me is it's saying that the player doesn't want to be challenged. They don't want to have to be more accurate and raise their skill with a particular weapon. I didn't want the Carbine to change. I loved that thing pre update, but I am ready for the challenge.
You're right that lessening the base damage and increasing the headshot damage (as well as making headshots harder to get) does better reward precise aim. I'm not disputing that.

I'd just like to see the damage values and a chart showing the gaps between shots (noting time-to-shields, perfect kill, and sub-optimal kill). That information along with the knowledge that shields have 70 hp, armor has 45 hp, and melee deals 70 hp can allow for more informed suggestions.
So basically the charts and info we have are not enough? You do realize they gave us Perfect TTK and Sub-optimal right? Maybe not all that other stuff, but hey, it's a start. They have never given us this much information before.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
A6ENT C wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Shin Vigor wrote:
Congratulations. You've made the AR a piece of crap.

The Frag Grenades, meanwhile, are going to be way OP.

I have some other minor gripes, but those are my big two.
Did you even read or watch
Lol, 200% increase in headshot damage isn't enough for you?
To be fair, if you don't know the base and headshot damage values (as I'll admit I don't), a 200% increase doesn't really say much as you only have your "guesstimates" to go off of.
200% is 200%. That's a heck of a lot. Granted we don't know exactly how this will feel yet, but basically I am commenting on him/her saying that this has ruined the weapon.

What kills me is it's saying that the player doesn't want to be challenged. They don't want to have to be more accurate and raise their skill with a particular weapon. I didn't want the Carbine to change. I loved that thing pre update, but I am ready for the challenge.
You're right that lessening the base damage and increasing the headshot damage (as well as making headshots harder to get) does better reward precise aim. I'm not disputing that.

I'd just like to see the damage values and a chart showing the gaps between shots (noting time-to-shields, perfect kill, and sub-optimal kill). That information along with the knowledge that shields have 70 hp, armor has 45 hp, and melee deals 70 hp can allow for more informed suggestions.
So basically the charts and info we have are not enough? You do realize they gave us Perfect TTK and Sub-optimal right? Maybe not all that other stuff, but hey, it's a start. They have never given us this much information before.
Don't get me wrong, I greatly appreciate what they have provided (and said as much on Page 1). I just see no harm in asking for more, do you?
If the BR average kill time decreases TO ANY DEGREE, it's current, minor advantage over the magnum will disappear altogether, and it's usefulness will be all but lost in the face of the now-almighty magnum.

Magnum > BR = Magnum is used for all but extreme close and extreme long-range fights; BR (and Carbine) are useless, and considering the overall nerf (increase in avg kill times [average, NOT perfect or suboptimal]), to the AR, SMG, and DMR, they will be used less as well.

The only way to fix it all is with BR starts, NOT MAGNUM STARTS.
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