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Weapon Tuning Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Considering messing with the Magnum will be a major mistake there's a good chance you will lose the rest of the players that have stuck around for this long you still keep some of the newer people but the people that have been around since the beginning will probably not not stand for that and just move on to other games.
I find the BR useless entirely anymore, it needs to go back to before the tune-up, or be reworked.
I really think making changes to the Magnum is a huge mistake. I get that it outclasses the rest of the weapon sandbox but its because of the changes made to the other weapons made it this way. The magnum where it is now should stay how it is... in past game this weapon was pretty useless besides in Halo: CE making changes to it I fear with be a huge step back in the wrong direction and perhaps kill the game. I think where the focus should be is making further adjustments to the weapons around it seems to me that the game is just getting more broken each time and things that need fixing are not getting fix I know you have roles that you want each weapon to shine at but seems not to work. I felt that it was more balanced out before the all of the weapon tuning I saw more weapons being used then I see now. In my past post I have posted the changes I agreed with and which I do not I am strongly against the magnum being changed. I feel you should either 1) reset the changes made to the DMR, BR, SMG, Gunfghter, Carbine, AR and even Railgun. and keep the changes for everything else. 2) Continue with making adjustments to weapons in the sandbox besides the magnum or 3) Ask the opinion / advice of the pros. Maybe its just me but I don't see nothing good coming out of this but this is my opinion good luck to you 343i
PLEAse do not change the magnum in any way it’s been perfect since day one it’s the best thing you have put in the game please please please don’t mess with something that is not broken
There is only one reasonable change I can accept if they touch the Magnum.

Make the Magnum a 4-shot kill to the head, but slow down its Fire Rate so it still has the same Perfect Kill Time. No range change, no random spread or bloom added to it. It still takes 7 shots in the body to kill a player.

This would make the Magnum keep its role in the sandbox, but make it that much more skillful to use. You'll be punished more for missing shots, which gives more incentive to pick up the rifles if you're not an expert with the sidearm. If you're really good, you can do 3 perfect kills with one magazine. Plus, you'll have a 2-shot beatdown alongside the BR and DMR respectively.

What say others?
return the weapons from the beginning the current ones are very bad :(
I'm just now getting back into Halo: 5, but I hope the BR isn't as useless as people were making it out to be.
There is only one reasonable change I can accept if they touch the Magnum.

Make the Magnum a 4-shot kill to the head, but slow down its Fire Rate so it still has the same Perfect Kill Time. No range change, no random spread or bloom added to it. It still takes 7 shots in the body to kill a player.

This would make the Magnum keep its role in the sandbox, but make it that much more skillful to use. You'll be punished more for missing shots, which gives more incentive to pick up the rifles if you're not an expert with the sidearm. If you're really good, you can do 3 perfect kills with one magazine. Plus, you'll have a 2-shot beatdown alongside the BR and DMR respectively.

What say others?
Why slow down its fire rate? Punishing the user for missing even one shot with the magnum while maintaining the same kill time as the original is not going to increase individual empowerment by any means. At that point, the 4sk is actually pointless. Wanna make it more skillful to use? Remove all that blatant bullet magnetism that gives people hit markers for extremely poor aim, which will by default increase the average kill time. Keep the current fire rate of the magnum and make it a 4sk so that we can emphasize the kill time difference between someone with good aim and someone with bad aim.

This in turn will solve the many sandbox issues (and even pacing issues) that this game has.
TryHardFan wrote:
There is only one reasonable change I can accept if they touch the Magnum.

Make the Magnum a 4-shot kill to the head, but slow down its Fire Rate so it still has the same Perfect Kill Time. No range change, no random spread or bloom added to it. It still takes 7 shots in the body to kill a player.

This would make the Magnum keep its role in the sandbox, but make it that much more skillful to use. You'll be punished more for missing shots, which gives more incentive to pick up the rifles if you're not an expert with the sidearm. If you're really good, you can do 3 perfect kills with one magazine. Plus, you'll have a 2-shot beatdown alongside the BR and DMR respectively.

What say others?
Why slow down its fire rate? Punishing the user for missing even one shot with the magnum while maintaining the same kill time as the original is not going to increase individual empowerment by any means. At that point, the 4sk is actually pointless. Wanna make it more skillful to use? Remove all that blatant bullet magnetism that gives people hit markers for extremely poor aim, which will by default increase the average kill time. Keep the current fire rate of the magnum and make it a 4sk so that we can emphasize the kill time difference between someone with good aim and someone with bad aim.

This in turn will solve the many sandbox issues (and even pacing issues) that this game has.
I could live with that kind of change. I know I am rewarded with many Perfects because of bullet magnetism/aim assist. I know the Sniper is too easy to use. I can feel it when I play. I should not be getting killing frenzies with it. I'm not that good, but there it is happening. We don't need ease of use but challenge to use.
eLantern wrote:
Quote:
  • Magnum – Following the tuning changes to all the other precision weapons in Halo 5, the Mangum ended up as a bit of an outlier in the sandbox. Currently we know this weapon outclasses nearly everything else with a similar intended role and it’s something the team is going to be taking a closer look at. However, given the Magnum’s implications in competitive play and the fact that we’re already underway with the Halo World Championship season, we’re holding off from making any public changes until sometime after the world finals have concluded. We’ll have more to say on the Magnum in the coming months.
I very much disagree that the Magnum warrants changes following the HaloWC2018 event. You should NOT be messing with the game's baseline weapon that currently functions exceptionally well within the game. Adjust the other weapons around it.
This is BASIC engineering!! If you change something (in this case BR, DMR and Carbine) and that doesn't quite cut it, but it CLEARLY impacts what you wanted to change, meaning these changes has a correlation, then you DO NOT change something else (the magnum)!!
You re-tune the other stuff!!

The magnum is currently being used simply because it actually works, and that kind of gun-play is clearly what people want (since that's quite clearly how people play the game right now: Use magnum where you can, and BR, DMR and the Carbine when the magnums run out of ammo). People use the magnum because it is RELIABLE, and the other weapons just aren't.

The magnum is currently working, if it's not broken don't fix it. Please don't touch the magnum.
Totally agree with this. If you notice people who are complaining about the magnum (myself included) they are not saying nerf it. The magnum is perfect! Don’t bring the magnum down to match all of the now unreliable weapons. Make the now unreliable weapons more reliable like the magnum.
Halo 5 has done a really good job with making the weapons somewhat even in my opinion except for the freakin BR. If you are hitting body shots, it takes more than a WHOLE MAG and that shouldn’t be happening. It would be good if it was stronger than it is now, but still not overpowered.
Can you guys just undo all the br and dmr changes pls
Why not make a rifle as strong as a rifle should be? Seriously, a pistol stronger than the DMR and BR? Dont touch the magnum i agree with that. But please, a rifle fires better rounds it should be better and not inferior to a pistol. The dmr is my favorite. Tickle damage at close range but good damage at long range doesnt make any sense. If its strong at long range it should have the same damage up close.
And the BR, the halo 5 BR is inferior to a pistol. i'd rather not talk about it coz im not using it anyway. Now the carbine, all good right now. But the firing sound Really sounds like a toy gun. The firing sound of the carbine in H2A was perfect. In halo 5 forgive me but it sounds like a plastic toy gun ejecting plastic rounds. Hope theres a way to change that.
From the news/community update:
Quote:
There’s a good amount of feedback from players at the highest levels of skill that the Sniper Rifle is currently a bit too effective and “easy to use.” Overall, the Sniper Rifle is currently performing as intended for the vast majority of players but the team will continue to monitor performance and feedback from players across all skill tiers.
Exactly, so here's my only suggestion for sniper: reduce the hitbox on LAN.
I know that some people get these "I wasn't even aiming at his head" shots online, but most of us aren't playing with less than 50ms ping.
Maybe a tune would have made sense earlier on, but now the population is so low that the sniper's "easiness" (outside of aim assist, which I could understand nerfing) is the bare minimum required just to have it actually register on most servers.

Also, it's just plain fun to use and the majority of players enjoy it.
I wouldn't personally care too much if the aim assist was nerfed, but I know others will, and the community is just to small to "pull another BR" -- you guys have to realise that if 343 actually changes the sniper, it would be 100x worse instead of 10% worse, right?? :p

--

As for the pistol, it's honestly perfect how it is.
The problem isn't the pistol, it's that the weapon tuning is bad and didn't address the issues with common sense approach.
..
All the DMR needed was a 3-shot beatdown and slightly lower the aim assist to match the pistol -- exactly what people have been saying since day 1.
This one was so easy, I have no idea how we got to the current version.
...
And BR having less range than pistol?
..Trying to bring back spread?? -- The single most hated thing about H3's BR????......
.....??????
...
SMH, I honestly have no idea how 343 came up with this when the obvious solutions have been repeated ad nauseam since beta testing.
It's like you guys just ignored every single bit of feedback and instead decided to randomly generate some changes to the variables of the weapon...
..
But instead of just admitting that and going with the tuning that fans have been saying all along..
now we're blaming the pistol?? S. M. H.

IRaliugaI wrote:
Deadlock I wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Quote:
  • Magnum – Following the tuning changes to all the other precision weapons in Halo 5, the Mangum ended up as a bit of an outlier in the sandbox. Currently we know this weapon outclasses nearly everything else with a similar intended role and it’s something the team is going to be taking a closer look at. However, given the Magnum’s implications in competitive play and the fact that we’re already underway with the Halo World Championship season, we’re holding off from making any public changes until sometime after the world finals have concluded. We’ll have more to say on the Magnum in the coming months.
I very much disagree that the Magnum warrants changes following the HaloWC2018 event. You should NOT be messing with the game's baseline weapon that currently functions exceptionally well within the game. Adjust the other weapons around it.
The prioritization of hcs will ruin halo. Especially when you have a completely customizable game where you can make special settings for them. If they handled their pro gaming scene like gears. None of this would be like it is now. It's a mess. Something tells me they do this so we can stay tuned in hahaha.
Snakebite (captain of the #1 team) has gone on record saying that not 1 single pro was ever asked for any input on weapon tuning and 343 didn't even let them know anything of what would happen to the weapons while it was being worked on.

Also, he has stated that not 1 single suggestion the pros have made has been accepted by 343, the only time the pros have gotten anything is when the casual, semi-casual, competitive, middle & pro communities were all in agreement about something.

The pros have no prioritisation, zero. They don't even get told their schedules for the season until the very last minute, they don't get paid their tournament winnings until nearly a year afterwards and they don't even have a say in the settings of their own playlist, let alone the game in general.
Let's not forget that it took over a year just to get autos removed form their own playlist -- a playlist that used to be named "MLG," and Bungie let MLG choose all the settings for themselves, based on feedback from the community.

The whole "competitive focus" that 343 advertised was only that: advertising.
They wanted to capitalise on the e-sports trend to get people playing but at no point did they actually listen to what the competitive community said, it's all a marketing facade to try and sell more games, just like the whole "Chief is the bad guy" commercials.

It's amazing to me that people still blame 343 so much for lying about the advertising of the game, yet still don't realise that they never stopped duping you.

Just because 343 chooses to blame HCS for holding out on changes doesn't mean it's what's really going on, it's just a convenient scapegoat right now.
The real truth behind why they're holding off on changes is because these updates are just to "keep it fresh" and milk the community for a little bit longer since the content updates are over with.
They have no intention of doing it quickly, they want to draw it out as long as possible.
From the news/community update:
Quote:
There’s a good amount of feedback from players at the highest levels of skill that the Sniper Rifle is currently a bit too effective and “easy to use.” Overall, the Sniper Rifle is currently performing as intended for the vast majority of players but the team will continue to monitor performance and feedback from players across all skill tiers.
Exactly, so here's my only suggestion for sniper: reduce the hitbox on LAN.
I know that some people get these "I wasn't even aiming at his head" shots online, but most of us aren't playing with less than 50ms ping.
Maybe a tune would have made sense earlier on, but now the population is so low that the sniper's "easiness" (outside of aim assist, which I could understand nerfing) is the bare minimum required just to have it actually register on most servers.

Also, it's just plain fun to use and the majority of players enjoy it.
I wouldn't personally care too much if the aim assist was nerfed, but I know others will, and the community is just to small to "pull another BR" -- you guys have to realise that if 343 actually changes the sniper, it would be 100x worse instead of 10% worse, right?? :p

--

As for the pistol, it's honestly perfect how it is.
The problem isn't the pistol, it's that the weapon tuning is bad and didn't address the issues with common sense approach.
..
All the DMR needed was a 3-shot beatdown and slightly lower the aim assist to match the pistol -- exactly what people have been saying since day 1.
This one was so easy, I have no idea how we got to the current version.
...
And BR having less range than pistol?
..Trying to bring back spread?? -- The single most hated thing about H3's BR????......
.....??????
...
SMH, I honestly have no idea how 343 came up with this when the obvious solutions have been repeated ad nauseam since beta testing.
It's like you guys just ignored every single bit of feedback and instead decided to randomly generate some changes to the variables of the weapon...
..
But instead of just admitting that and going with the tuning that fans have been saying all along..
now we're blaming the pistol?? S. M. H.

IRaliugaI wrote:
Deadlock I wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Quote:
  • Magnum – Following the tuning changes to all the other precision weapons in Halo 5, the Mangum ended up as a bit of an outlier in the sandbox. Currently we know this weapon outclasses nearly everything else with a similar intended role and it’s something the team is going to be taking a closer look at. However, given the Magnum’s implications in competitive play and the fact that we’re already underway with the Halo World Championship season, we’re holding off from making any public changes until sometime after the world finals have concluded. We’ll have more to say on the Magnum in the coming months.
I very much disagree that the Magnum warrants changes following the HaloWC2018 event. You should NOT be messing with the game's baseline weapon that currently functions exceptionally well within the game. Adjust the other weapons around it.
The prioritization of hcs will ruin halo. Especially when you have a completely customizable game where you can make special settings for them. If they handled their pro gaming scene like gears. None of this would be like it is now. It's a mess. Something tells me they do this so we can stay tuned in hahaha.
Snakebite (captain of the #1 team) has gone on record saying that not 1 single pro was ever asked for any input on weapon tuning and 343 didn't even let them know anything of what would happen to the weapons while it was being worked on.

Also, he has stated that not 1 single suggestion the pros have made has been accepted by 343, the only time the pros have gotten anything is when the casual, semi-casual, competitive, middle & pro communities were all in agreement about something.

The pros have no prioritisation, zero. They don't even get told their schedules for the season until the very last minute, they don't get paid their tournament winnings until nearly a year afterwards and they don't even have a say in the settings of their own playlist, let alone the game in general.
Let's not forget that it took over a year just to get autos removed form their own playlist -- a playlist that used to be named "MLG," and Bungie let MLG choose all the settings for themselves, based on feedback from the community.

The whole "competitive focus" that 343 advertised was only that: advertising.
They wanted to capitalise on the e-sports trend to get people playing but at no point did they actually listen to what the competitive community said, it's all a marketing facade to try and sell more games, just like the whole "Chief is the bad guy" commercials.

It's amazing to me that people still blame 343 so much for lying about the advertising of the game, yet still don't realise that they never stopped duping you.

Just because 343 chooses to blame HCS for holding out on changes doesn't mean it's what's really going on, it's just a convenient scapegoat right now.
The real truth behind why they're holding off on changes is because these updates are just to "keep it fresh" and milk the community for a little bit longer since the content updates are over with.
They have no intention of doing it quickly, they want to draw it out as long as possible.
Sounds like a crazy conspiracy on paper but it definitely makes sense!!! No exposure is bad exposure as they say! :/ it's a shame. Halo used to be the pinnacle of gaming. Now we're falling to a yearly mediocre COD release. They can't keep up with a stale yearly cod release....this sucks. I hang on Cus this franchise has been a big part of my life but damn...sometimes it really seems like all they want is to milk us now.
I feel that most of the time they only pay attention to the first 5 comments, there are many people arguing about the plasma rifle, the energy sword, the gunfigther magnum, the granade launcher and the brute rifle, in my opinion they do not need an adjustment, only a longer time of respawning, be removed from certain maps, have just a bit of ammo (granade launcher) and put them in places where the player is very exposed, these are auxiliary weapons, exist for a reason, spawns on the map for a reason, something that many players do not understand, there are people who are upset that you kill them with any weapon other than the magnum or the assault rifle, then, why put auxiliary weapons in first place if the people gets upset with them?
edit: this is about arena, in warzone is almost pointless complaing, beacuse anyone can strike back with any other weapon
Yes, I’m addressing the weapons retune...
Unfortunately the vast majority of Halo players don’t come to these forums and although I wasn’t going g to either I decided i would come here and voice my lowly opinion. I kinda feel like the problem is 343 does what it wants and really the people making the games hardly ever see themselves making a mistake. Halo is selling less and people buy less consoles because of Halo. It’s not because they got tired of Halo. It’s like Call of Duty - they got tired of all the gimmicks. Most friends I know have moved on to games like Battlefield or away from games like this altogether. Everyone remembers armor lock being controversial but it was the first gimmick that really turned off seasoned dedicated Halo players. Things like Spartan charge really don’t help, but benefit casual gamers the most. Casual gamers won’t push consoles like an avid fan of any hot game.

The weapons tume in many peoples eyes is a failure. It retuned many weapons of which few really needed. But why ? 343 nerfed precision weapons like the classic Battle Rifle that like the Sniper Rifle are skilled weapons - you need some practice to be decent. Retuning the weapons took some excitement and life out of the game. The Battle Rifle is underwhelming and many players had to practice to be that good. Players who spent time and have to the game. Now someone wielding a assault rifle can outshoot the battle rifle from an UNreasonable distance in a duel. I recall Halo players used to play the heck out of campaign just to get the practice. Who would believe a super soldier uses that lowly rifle now as a standard weapon ? It’s no good and I’ve been killed by assault rifles (out) shooting at me at ranges far enough out to know I just got cheated because my rate of fire and damage is now slower/less... whatever. The point is why?? Does 343 think lowering the damage of weapons makes a balanced game when you have go into Big Team and use those under-powered weapons and fight someone flying in the air who ends the game with 30 kills ? The game is very unbalanced. The vast majority of fans never wanted anyone to tweak the battle rifle. The only weapon some people complained about shooting too far out before was the covenant rifle and thankfully it doesn’t stink as much as the BR does, except they are rare. A minority of players still harness the few weapons of which everyone knows are just better versus retuned weapons that are mainly weaker in general. Guess what ? SMG’s should kick butt up close! Less ammo.. don’t nerf the damage!

Why is 343 trying to balance a game which can’t be balanced ? The main reason it can’t be balanced is some people are just much more skilled. 343 has taken some of the fun from the game by penalizing long term skilled players who have used the Battle Rifle for a long time. When opposing enemy players constantly spawn behind you - and since movement speed is even faster then Halo Reach ( you can run indefinitely and this make radar more worthless - why even have radar now ? ) anyone is setup to be assasinated too often. Would you call it unfair? Is spartan charging a gimmick when you can run up on someone - with no other skill- and just ram people over and over for kills. Call of duty went from being number 1 to number 9... this year they went back to their “roots” because of the complaints. Halo used to be a solid #2 in shooters and like COD long term fans are tired of the game they loved being changed too
much. When Halo 5 added Halo 3 into the social
menu it seemed like one of the most played 4 vs 4 games in Halo 5. What 343 does could finish off Halo..

The retune is a failure for this reason - after the retune people feel Halo just isn’t as fun.
eLantern wrote:
Quote:
  • Magnum – Following the tuning changes to all the other precision weapons in Halo 5, the Mangum ended up as a bit of an outlier in the sandbox. Currently we know this weapon outclasses nearly everything else with a similar intended role and it’s something the team is going to be taking a closer look at. However, given the Magnum’s implications in competitive play and the fact that we’re already underway with the Halo World Championship season, we’re holding off from making any public changes until sometime after the world finals have concluded. We’ll have more to say on the Magnum in the coming months.
I very much disagree that the Magnum warrants changes following the HaloWC2018 event. You should NOT be messing with the game's baseline weapon that currently functions exceptionally well within the game. Adjust the other weapons around it.
This is BASIC engineering!! If you change something (in this case BR, DMR and Carbine) and that doesn't quite cut it, but it CLEARLY impacts what you wanted to change, meaning these changes has a correlation, then you DO NOT change something else (the magnum)!!
You re-tune the other stuff!!

The magnum is currently being used simply because it actually works, and that kind of gun-play is clearly what people want (since that's quite clearly how people play the game right now: Use magnum where you can, and BR, DMR and the Carbine when the magnums run out of ammo). People use the magnum because it is RELIABLE, and the other weapons just aren't.

The magnum is currently working, if it's not broken don't fix it. Please don't touch the magnum.
Totally agree with this. If you notice people who are complaining about the magnum (myself included) they are not saying nerf it. The magnum is perfect! Don’t bring the magnum down to match all of the now unreliable weapons. Make the now unreliable weapons more reliable like the magnum.
Exactly, the Magnum is perfect! The weapons should be balanced around the magnum. As a matter of fact, prior to all this tuning, the precision weapons WERE balanced around the Magnum. The rifles are supposed to be worth picking up and the Magnum is supposed to be your reliable sidearm. I feel the BR would be awesome with the current RoF and removal of the recoil. But in my honest opinion, the precision weapons should have never been touched to begin with. Just watch competitive Halo before the tuning... There was variety! Now it's just Magnum time, all the time. Pro's aren't going to touch the BR or DMR during the upcoming world championship because they're unreliable.
Nerf the magnum, it has started to outperform most primary weapons.
Sierra 772 wrote:
Nerf the magnum, it has started to outperform most primary weapons.
Um, what? The magnum IS the primary weapon. What "primary weapons" is it outperforming?
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