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Weapon Tuning Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Well, im pleased with the update. DMR and Carbine are better now. But BR, AR, SMG and the Magnum needs work.
Well, im pleased with the update. DMR and Carbine are better now. But BR, AR, SMG and the Magnum needs work.
The standard & tactical Magnums are more or less perfectly fine.

I still believe the BR should have it's Hip-Fire Red-Reticle-Range (RRR) increased to match the standard & tactical Magnums and crouch firing the weapon should reduce the recoil effect ever so slightly. I'm not a fan of the dramatic performance difference between BRs with specific scope attachments -- I think that's incredibly foolish. Performance consistency please. Also, the Aim-Down-Sight (ADS) RRR for certain sights should receive an increase too:
  • Recon Scope increased to match current Classic Scope ADS RRR
  • Classic Scope increased to match current Hybrid Scope ADS RRR
  • Hybrid Scope increased to match current H2BR ADS RRR
The first bullet fired from the AR (per trigger pull and once bloom is reset) should travel approximately where the center of the reticle indicates it should travel. As it is right now the cone-of-fire for that first bullet is pretty big. The max bullet spread (aka cone-of-fire) when ADSing should be a little tighter in comparison to the hip-fire amount. And crouch firing the weapon should reduce the vertical climb effect. I also wouldn't be opposed to reworking the damange/fire-rate and headshot bonus such that it achieves an approximate 1.2 optimal Time-To-Kill (TTK) while requiring two head shots to finish an un-shielded opponent instead of just one.

The SMG needs some real reworking and this is a list of what I'd like to see:
  • A larger default bullet spread from the hip-fire position while maintaining the current max bullet spread from that firing position. Keep the current default bullet spread when ADSing, but slightly reduce the max bullet spread (when ADSing) in comparison to its hip-fire amount. This would be somewhat similar to the tuning test version.
  • Slightly reduce the speed at which the spread bloom increases when crouch firing the weapon. These spread changes should properly limit the effectiveness of the SMG to its CQC role and force players to ADS in order to improve the weapon's effectiveness at any range beyond near point blank which also contends with the de-scope aspect of game-play.
  • Increase the bullet damage and/or RoF in order to achieve an approximate 1.1 optimal TTK with a head-shot bonus.
  • Reduce the REQ cost. The exact amount likely depends on the effectiveness of the tune, but as it currently sits the regular SMG should be instantly available (aka REQ 1). I think the changes I mentioned could put the regular SMG at a REQ cost of perhaps 3. The majority of the SMG variants should see a REQ cost reduction.
The gunfighter Magnum is the pistol that could still use a slight tweak. The random spread aspect should be fully eliminated because the weapon already contends with a vertical drift dependent on its fire rate.

The DMR could still use a REQ cost reduction for Warzone modes. I believe the default DMR should cost 5 REQs, not 6, but in general I think most of the DMR variants should see a REQ cost reduction of 1.
The carbine and DMR is good. Now fix the BR please.
3. The “Nerfs” the the Storm Rifle don’t really change much and it’s still the second best automatic weaponOk, for those of you that are curious on what they changed here it is
  • The battery now takes 1% for one shot instead of fluctuating between 0.5 to 2%. So I don’t know if really a nerf per say. Still have shots taken away or refunded for some stupid reason
  • The time it takes to cool off an overheated Storm Rifle has been increased slightly
  • It has a bit less “sticky” aim at RRR but it’s big reticule means you’ll still shred at close range will little effort
Just giving it less ammo is just a band aid solution, The real problem with this gun is it’s high damage and RoF.
Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking when they were tinkering with the SR. It's like they were completely focusing on the wrong things.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
3. The “Nerfs” the the Storm Rifle don’t really change much and it’s still the second best automatic weaponOk, for those of you that are curious on what they changed here it is
  • The battery now takes 1% for one shot instead of fluctuating between 0.5 to 2%. So I don’t know if really a nerf per say. Still have shots taken away or refunded for some stupid reason
  • The time it takes to cool off an overheated Storm Rifle has been increased slightly
  • It has a bit less “sticky” aim at RRR but it’s big reticule means you’ll still shred at close range will little effort
Just giving it less ammo is just a band aid solution, The real problem with this gun is it’s high damage and RoF.
Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking when they were tinkering with the SR. It's like they were completely focusing on the wrong things.
As a map pick-up and niche weapon that has slow-ish traveling plasma bolts (relative to UNSC bullets) I never really had an issue with it being as powerful as it was/is, so I was glad they didn't really mess with the damage and rate-of-fire. I thought reducing it's reticle magnetism (aka sticky aim) so that it was less effective at ranges other than close-ish range, increasing the cool-down time after it overheated, and potentially reducing the available ammo were appropriate modifications to lessen its effectiveness. IMO, it should remain a sought-after weapon for close-ish encounter use.
eLantern wrote:
As a map pick-up and niche weapon that has slow-ish traveling plasma bolts I never really had an issue with it being as powerful as it was/is, so I was glad they didn't really mess with the damage and rate-of-fire. I thought reducing it's reticle magnetism (aka sticky aim) so that it was less effective at ranges other than close range, increasing the cool-down time after it overheated, and potentially reducing the available ammo were appropriate modifications to lessen its effectiveness. IMO, it should remain a sought-after weapon for close encounter use.
It has slow traveling bolts, but it's kill time is one of the fastest in the game. Reducing the aim assist isn't really a big issue since I think most people only use it in close range where aim assist isn't a big factor due to the huge reticule. The overheat feature is good, but it's easily bypassed and the faster battery eating isn't that big a deal either considering it doesn't have a long respawn.

They should've made it so it takes longer to strip shields, but it takes health really fast or the other way around. It shouldn't take both away at the same or similar rate.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
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Marsocke wrote:
Why does my Ammo not work last time i had a Grunt in Warzone and i shot all my Munition of the standart Rifle on him and he did not die. And allso in Arena i shot a whole Magazine and they do not die and they have three shots and i am dead.
Most likely due to a connection issue and/or you missing shots.
eLantern wrote:
Well, im pleased with the update. DMR and Carbine are better now. But BR, AR, SMG and the Magnum needs work.
The standard & tactical Magnums are perfectly fine.

I still believe the BR should have it's Hip-Fire Red-Reticle-Range (RRR) increased to match the standard & tactical Magnums and crouch firing the weapon should reduce the recoil effect ever so slightly. The Aim-Down-Sight (ADS) RRR might also be in line for a fairly small increase too.

The first bullet fired from the AR (per trigger pull and once bloom is reset) should travel approximately where the center of the reticle indicates it should travel. As it is right now the cone-of-fire for that first bullet is pretty big. The max bullet spread (aka cone-of-fire) when ADSing should be a little tighter in comparison to the hip-fire amount. And crouch firing the weapon should reduce the vertical climb effect. I also wouldn't be opposed to reworking the damange/fire-rate and headshot bonus such that it achieves an approximate 1.2 optimal Time-To-Kill (TTK) while requiring two head shots to finish an un-shielded opponent instead of just one.

The SMG needs some real reworking and this is a list of what I'd like to see:
  • A larger default bullet spread from the hip-fire position while maintaining the current max bullet spread from that firing position. Keep the current default bullet spread when ADSing, but slightly reduce the max bullet spread (when ADSing) in comparison to its hip-fire amount. This would be somewhat similar to the tuning test version.
  • Slightly reduce the speed at which the spread bloom increases when crouch firing the weapon. These spread changes should properly limit the effectiveness of the SMG to its CQC role and force players to ADS in order to improve the weapon's effectiveness at any range beyond near point blank which also contends with the de-scope aspect of game-play.
  • Increase the bullet damage and/or RoF in order to achieve an approximate 1.0-1.1 optimal TTK.
  • Reduce the REQ cost. The exact amount likely depends on the effectiveness of the tune, but as it currently sits the regular SMG should be instantly available (aka REQ 1). I think the changes I mentioned could put the regular SMG at a REQ cost of perhaps 3.
The gunfighter Magnum is the pistol that could still use a slight tweak. The random spread aspect should be fully eliminated because the weapon already contends with a vertical drift dependent on its fire rate.

The DMR could still use a REQ cost reduction for Warzone modes. I believe the default DMR should cost 5 REQs, not 6.
I agree with req level reduction for the DMR and SMG. I think what the SMG needs is a headshot damage multiplier. When they removed that the SMG became too weak. The effective range of SMG i think is 7-12m(not sure) or melee range but i'd rather double punch anyone than full auto SMG em. the Plasma Pistol is much more superior to it. the AR in my opinion just needs a little bit more RoF or base damage then i'm sure it will be good. the BR is precision weapon for close to mid range removing the recoil will do it. but the will have to reduce RRR when scoped so it will not outclass sniper rifles, dmr and carbine. it should be balanced with AR because they are both for close to mid range but both of these weapons should not be superior to the SMG in Close Quarters. Gunfighter magnum, i'd rather keep recoil and remove vertical drift. The Magnum, sorry but this needs to be nerfed, Reduce RRR Scoped and unscoped and a little reduction to base damage but still 5 shots perfect kill, same RoF, 4 shot beatdown. Some might ask why nerf their beloved magnum, well it's because a pistol should never outclass a rifle or have the same power as a rifle. If only it was up to me i'd make the magnum a 6 shot for perfect kill weapon. Anyway these are all just my opinion.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
eLantern wrote:
As a map pick-up and niche weapon that has slow-ish traveling plasma bolts I never really had an issue with it being as powerful as it was/is, so I was glad they didn't really mess with the damage and rate-of-fire. I thought reducing it's reticle magnetism (aka sticky aim) so that it was less effective at ranges other than close range, increasing the cool-down time after it overheated, and potentially reducing the available ammo were appropriate modifications to lessen its effectiveness. IMO, it should remain a sought-after weapon for close encounter use.
It has slow traveling bolts, but it's kill time is one of the fastest in the game. Reducing the aim assist isn't really a big issue since I think most people only use it in close range where aim assist isn't a big factor due to the huge reticule. The overheat feature is good, but it's easily bypassed and the faster battery eating isn't that big a deal either considering it doesn't have a long respawn.

They should've made it so it takes longer to strip shields, but it takes health really fast or the other way around. It shouldn't take both away at the same or similar rate.
Requiring one extra plasma bolt to a player's health wouldn't necessarily have been a deal breaker for me, but my point was that I think its lethality via optimal TTK is more or less perfectly fine and that the weapon was successfully designed to function well within its intended play space. When I come across one on the battlefield there's a sense of desire to pick it up for use in that play space and I'm glad that they didn't nerf it such that there's little reason to desire it. It's not as if I can use the Storm Rifle with consistent success beyond its intended play space and there are still other weapons that trump it around the borders of that play space.
I agree with req level reduction for the DMR and SMG. I think what the SMG needs is a headshot damage multiplier. When they removed that the SMG became too weak. The effective range of SMG i think is 7-12m(not sure) or melee range but i'd rather double punch anyone than full auto SMG em. the Plasma Pistol is much more superior to it. the AR in my opinion just needs a little bit more RoF or base damage then i'm sure it will be good. the BR is precision weapon for close to mid range removing the recoil will do it. but the will have to reduce RRR when scoped so it will not outclass sniper rifles, dmr and carbine. it should be balanced with AR because they are both for close to mid range but both of these weapons should not be superior to the SMG in Close Quarters. Gunfighter magnum, i'd rather keep recoil and remove vertical drift. The Magnum, sorry but this needs to be nerfed, Reduce RRR Scoped and unscoped and a little reduction to base damage but still 5 shots perfect kill, same RoF, 4 shot beatdown. Some might ask why nerf their beloved magnum, well it's because a pistol should never outclass a rifle or have the same power as a rifle. If only it was up to me i'd make the magnum a 6 shot for perfect kill weapon. Anyway these are all just my opinion.
I truly understand the point to nerf the magnum, but honestly this is the outcome of 343's disaster weapon tuning. Since launch, 343 had plenty of time to reconsider the tuning for these weapons, for more than a year to almost 2 years. I don't understand why til now they decided to nerf these weapons to a state where nobody picks them up anymore. If everyone thinks about it, the magnum fits perfectly its intended role. The reason it outclass br, dmr, ect. is simply because these weapons are completely ruined. Before the tuning, br and dmr obviously outclass the magnum, but now that's completely the opposite. Rather than nerfing the magnum, how about fixing the br and dmr and problem solved. I also don't see the point of voicing my opinion anymore, I highly doubt 343 even reads these feedback. We were complaining about the br's vertical recoil, instead, recoil was reduced to certain scoped attachments base on "player feedback". When did we asked for that? We wanted to reduce the recoil in general and instead we get this.......
PeterAK91 wrote:
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I truly understand the point to nerf the magnum, but honestly this is the outcome of 343's disaster weapon tuning. Since launch, 343 had plenty of time to reconsider the tuning for these weapons, for more than a year to almost 2 years. I don't understand why til now they decided to nerf these weapons to a state where nobody picks them up anymore. If everyone thinks about it, the magnum fits perfectly its intended role. The reason it outclass br, dmr, ect. is simply because these weapons are completely ruined. Before the tuning, br and dmr obviously outclass the magnum, but now that's completely the opposite. Rather than nerfing the magnum, how about fixing the br and dmr and problem solved. I also don't see the point of voicing my opinion anymore, I highly doubt 343 even reads these feedback. We were complaining about the br's vertical recoil, instead, recoil was reduced to certain scoped attachments base on "player feedback". When did we asked for that? We wanted to reduce the recoil in general and instead we get this.......
I have to disagree with some of your assertions.

1. There really isn't a point to nerf the magnum. The real point should be to continue curtailing and tweaking the sandbox around it because, as you've alluded to, the standard Magnum in its current state is a pretty awesome baseline utility weapon.

2. Since launch 343i likely had much higher priorities over adjusting the sandbox. They had a pretty heavy, and I'm sure hectic, schedule of big content updates to keep up with as well as critical hot fixes and content improvements that required attention (a lot of time on-the-fly). Not to mention, feedback complaints regarding the sandbox weren't at shriek levels to draw early attention; though, complaints regarding HCS competition lead to a few early modifications and the AR grew close to shriek levels eventually. However, once 343i got through their primary content updates and critical fixes they had the resources as well as the data available to consider a more robust sandbox update.

3. I would not be so sure that many of the weapons were nerfed to the point that nobody chooses them or picks them up anymore. Some people may not see much reason to pick certain ones anymore and in several cases they're probably correct in their perspective, but definitely not everybody has that same understanding or perspective. In many instances now the situation and likely would-be use of said weapon will, and should, dictate whether someone chooses or picks-up a certain weapon verses simply doing it because it's an obvious upgrade in just about every way. I'd argue that the sandbox in many ways is in a much better place now, but I agree with many who believe that there are areas that require further tuning improvements.

For example: The REQ costs of the SMG and DMR are no longer in-line with the effectiveness or usefulness of the weapons in their pre-tuned state; therefore, they most certainly should receive a cost reduction. The SMG's effective role is extremely minor and near non-existent in reference to many other similar and overlapping weapon choices; therefore, it should receive further modification and, in my personal opinion, a noticeable buff from its current state. The previous tuning change for the DMR made it much more difficult to use and be successful with in Arena matches (aka it became quite unforgiving with its skill curve) where as it still had a role and maintained a fairly decent level of usefulness in certain Warzone matches when used in its intended role, but the most recent update (3/7/18) helped improve the DMR for Arena use even if its useful role remains fairly niche. The pre-tuned AR was extremely forgiving; meaning, it had a noticeably low skill-curve, while at the same time it managed to be quite lethal and capable of excelling beyond its intended role which is why it was addressed as it was. As a primary utility weapon that's designed to be more forgiving for lower skilled players the AR still manages to fulfill that role in its current state, but now it carries a higher skill-curve and doesn't excel beyond its intended role or at least nowhere near as capable. The BR was redesigned to be more of a primary utility weapon in the vein of the standard Magnum and Assault Rifle instead of being an obvious pure upgrade over either. I personally think it could use several additional improvement modifications, but its current state isn't terribly horrible -- I mean I don't like it, but I can live with it. On the other hand, I was not a fan of the decision to grant certain BRs with specific scope attachments a dramatic performance improvement. The reasoning it was done was because of concerns relating to visual discomfort and yes that warranted change, but they should have simply adjusted the visual view-kick animation for those specific scopes instead of the weapon's performance or they should have just adopted a new performance standard across-the-board to all sighted variants of the H5BR.

4. Careful about how you use the term "we". You act as if you know you're speaking on behalf of the whole community or the majority of the community, but honestly that's an unknown.

I sure hope you're wrong about them (343i) not still caring about the feedback they receive here, but maybe you're not.
One of my friends mentioned this a little while ago and I totally agree. The original point of the tuning for the BR was to reduce cross-map kills, right? Wonder what’s going to happen now that all the long-range scopes have no recoil?? All that happens now is make the user feel annoyed by the vertical recoil at short ranges. Just another reason to only use the Magnum variants and H2BR.

Seriously 343, you guys completely wrecked the Battle Rifle. Save some face and revert it back to the way it was pre-November. The majority of the community you supposedly listen to (including pro players) hate this version of the BR. If you want some help with this because you just have to change something about it, reduce the RRR and/or stickiness. There you go, now there will be fewer cross-map kills with regular scopes.
For anyone interested, I compiled all my complaints over the past few months with the H5BR into one post on Reddit.
Unskilled players who don't want to put in practice to learn and improve are putting thoughts in the balance teams heads that shouldn't even be there. Practice and improve stop complaining about a balanced weapon because you're losing. Learn how to properly disengage/engage if you're getting mapped by Pistols constantly the problem is you not the pistol.
ske7ch wrote:
The Halo 5 weapon tuning update is coming Nov. 2! Read more HERE and share your thoughts and feedback below!
I've recently got back to playing Halo 5. The only reason i buy the the xbox is Halo. Now i really like 343 and what you guys did with the Halo franchise even with all the hate coming since Halo 4 , however, i personally thought halo 4 was a good game and Halo 5, exponentially better. This weapon tuning update though. Sad. I don't however think so for all the changes. The AR update for example i feel is good however the damage didn't dealt didn't really need any change simply because it's meant to melt spartan shields at the effective range and that's exactly what it did before the update. The battle rifle changes are utterly useless just like the gun has now become for most of the community. The pistol is more effective at all times under all circumstances which is laughable considering the battle rifle is a range specific weapon but the pistol is better at that range too. I used to look forward to charging for the BR before the update. Same goes for the DMR. Phenomenal weapon since Halo: Reach , slight hiccup in halo 4 when it became a 4 head shot kill but then all was settled until of course the weapon update on Nov 2. Again i feel the gun was puuuurrrffffect just the way it was before the update. Good job on the grenade and camouflage changes.
Basically as a long time halo community member, i think the game was near perfect before the tuning update and now is far from.
Plasma Grenades need fixed they don’t stick too nothing!
Tidal KW wrote:
Unskilled players who don't want to put in practice to learn and improve are putting thoughts in the balance teams heads that shouldn't even be there. Practice and improve stop complaining about a balanced weapon because you're losing. Learn how to properly disengage/engage if you're getting mapped by Pistols constantly the problem is you not the pistol.
Nah bro, I'm a pretty high Onyx in FFA. It's the BR. It's bad. Most pros even agree. Everyone is pretty much at a consensus. It sucks.
IRaliugaI wrote:
The carbine and DMR is good. Now fix the BR please.
Agreed. Just make the BR hipfire the same way as it currently fires when aiming through the longshot scope. No recoil. How does putting a scope on your BR magically compensate for recoil? The weapon should fire the same way regardless of which optic is mounted. No vertical recoil + 1.35's TTK= A BR we can actually use in arena.
IRaliugaI wrote:
Tidal KW wrote:
Unskilled players who don't want to put in practice to learn and improve are putting thoughts in the balance teams heads that shouldn't even be there. Practice and improve stop complaining about a balanced weapon because you're losing. Learn how to properly disengage/engage if you're getting mapped by Pistols constantly the problem is you not the pistol.
Nah bro, I'm a pretty high Onyx in FFA. It's the BR. It's bad. Most pros even agree. Everyone is pretty much at a consensus. It sucks.
I'm not saying the BR is good it is trash. I'm talking about the kids whining about the Pistol being overpowered. The fact that is even being said boggles me. Because they sit in the open challenging a gunfight they can't win and get destroyed by someone who can aim with a Pistol at long range its overpowered to them. Ridiculous.
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