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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Great article. Thanks for taking the time to explain the details of the changes and also the charts showing relative weapon performance. As an engineer, I love to see the numbers! I have a few concerns, but I'll wait until I get a chance to play some. I'm just hoping the AR has been de-tuned overall. That's been my biggest complaint since H5 released.
I hate the weapon changes. In fact I don't want to play Halo 5 anymore and it was my favorite game. So the 2 main close range weapons the assault rifle and smg now do ~25% less damage and are in good at close range combat. The pistol damage was increase 25% so everyone needs to use the pistol by default now instead of a balanced wesponized game? It pretty ridiculous to think that in real life someone wouldn't use an smg or assault rifle in a close range battle because they've been nerfed. I guess there are other games to play. If this is ever reverted I might come back to the game. These types of weapons were valuable even since Halo 1 even with the overpowered pistol. It should be that every weapon has it's place and preference now there's no reason to use those 2 guns. As it stands now I'm done with Halo 5 and won't be buying Halo 6 unless these changes are reverted. Those guns were nerfed originally anyways compared to a pistol that for some reason outguns an assault rifle. :shrug
My two cents:

-Glad the grenade blast size is decreased.
-Not so glad about the BR/Carbine/DMR nerfs. In most situations, I now find that the magnum as a starting weapon outclasses the BR especially. I understand the old BR being quite powerful, but now it is too weak. The decreased fire rate and lowered red reticle range (RRR) make it inferior to the magnum in almost any situation. I think that just having minor spread with long range shots by itself would have been a sufficient nerf. As a general rule, the BR as a picked up map weapon should have an edge over the magnum, but it no longer does.
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Well. I read quite a few of the comments. I'm a little surprised by the mostly negative reaction as I'm quite happy about most of these changes.

The big wins imo are the smg and AR changes. Wtg! Along with the splinter and frag nades changing. All 4 of these were no brainers and needed the changes, it's a better game today because of these changes. I also consider the storm rifle and brute plasma in the same category, and am a little surprised neither was altered. Perhaps these 2 weapons should just be removed from arena and left in warzone only.

The br, it's not quite right. I think u guys need to revisit this one for a bit. Right now I will not drop my magnum for a br. Not a chance. I don't think that's the desired result. And please DONT TOUCH THE MAGNUM!!!! It doesn't need any tweaking at all.

Rail gun is still good.

Carbine, same as br. Something isn't quite right.

I didn't get a chance to play ffa today but that is what I'm looking forward to playing the most with these changes. The AR mosh pit hopefully has seen its last day. Love halo 5 ffa, but the autos turned me off of it a while back.
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The BR is unusable in my opinion. Just doesn't feel right at all. I will roll with the magnum every time because of how unstable the BR has become. I hope BTB doesn't suffer to much because of this, I mean this didn't really need touched at all.
Magnum > BR = No need to pick up BR = Magnum now accounts for EVEN MORE % of total kills = less weapon variety usage = exactly the opposite of the "balancing" effect you were looking for with this update.

The solution is simple: replace the OP Magnum with BR loadouts.

All problems solved.

Send me a PM if you'd like to hire me; I'm in the hunt for better work!
I have already posted this in the goals before h6 thread... but I feel strongly enough about this that I had to post it here. My frustration towards this topic is beyond explanation.

Take the weapons tuning from the overtime update and unupdate it... the weapons feel and play awful. We play for 2 years to learn the in and outs of the weapons and how to beat another weapon with the one we have. Then you take it all away. If the first weapons tuning test didn’t get the results you wanted, you should have done another trial with the new setup you are suggesting because this setup is not fun. You’re trying to “balance weapons” that aren’t meant to be balanced imo it’s always been a part of matchmaking that If you can get to a br or other precision weapon and can use your skill and aim, you have an advantage. Mini power weapons in a sense.. This just made me want to stop playing halo. Just so happens this update happened right when the new cod came out. I’m so disappointed I’m about to go to the dark side and buy it. We are still playing the original maps from 2 years ago on competitive play. Instead of new maps you’re concentrated on tuning the weapons. And in return now the famous weapons like br and ar feel and play bad. This cannot be the right direction for this game. This should have been something addressed in the early weeks if the game if it was an area of concern. Can’t do this after 2 years. Wait until h6 at this point. Give us the game back that we have grinded out this long with.
Well. I read quite a few of the comments. I'm a little surprised by the mostly negative reaction as I'm quite happy about most of these changes.

The big wins imo are the smg and AR changes. Wtg! Along with the splinter and frag nades changing. All 4 of these were no brainers and needed the changes, it's a better game today because of these changes. I also consider the storm rifle and brute plasma in the same category, and am a little surprised neither was altered. Perhaps these 2 weapons should just be removed from arena and left in warzone only.

The br, it's not quite right. I think u guys need to revisit this one for a bit. Right now I will not drop my magnum for a br. Not a chance. I don't think that's the desired result. And please DONT TOUCH THE MAGNUM!!!! It doesn't need any tweaking at all.

Rail gun is still good.

Carbine, same as br. Something isn't quite right.

I didn't get a chance to play ffa today but that is what I'm looking forward to playing the most with these changes. The AR mosh pit hopefully has seen its last day. Love halo 5 ffa, but the autos turned me off of it a while back.
AR was never a problem, there were plenty of ways to deal with people that use them. Now the AR is useless. All other fully auto-guns outclass it by a long shot.
If there is one weapon that's long overdue to be nerfed, it's the magnum. Quite often it's so overpowered that it's beating out DMRs and BRs seven times out of ten. I think instead of changing the BR, which was fine before the patches, they should finally address the magnum.
ske7ch - Greatly enjoyed the deep dive livestream with Quinn. I'm about halfway through, but really looking forward to the next half tomorrow. Awesome look at the behind-the-scenes work that goes into the series; same kind of enjoyment I got out the Sprint. Looking forward to more like it!
Magnum > BR = No need to pick up BR = Magnum now accounts for EVEN MORE % of total kills = less weapon variety usage = exactly the opposite of the "balancing" effect you were looking for with this update.
The solution is simple: replace the OP Magnum with BR loadouts.
All problems solved.
Send me a PM if you'd like to hire me; I'm in the hunt for better work!
The magnum is too powerful compared to the other weapons. Magnum needs either nerfed or replaced by BR as starting weapon.
The simplest solution would be to swap all BRs and Magnums, both in loadouts and on-map.
The BR used to be slightly better than the loadout magnum, and you could find it on-map.
Now that the Magnum is slightly better than the BR, swapping the two would make perfect sense and be a simple, effective fix.
If the BR average kill time decreases TO ANY DEGREE, it's current, minor advantage over the magnum will disappear altogether, and it's usefulness will be all but lost in the face of the now-almighty magnum.
Magnum > BR = Magnum is used for all but extreme close and extreme long-range fights; BR (and Carbine) are useless, and considering the overall nerf (increase in avg kill times [average, NOT perfect or suboptimal]), to the AR, SMG, and DMR, they will be used less as well.
The only way to fix it all is with BR starts, NOT MAGNUM STARTS.
Pre-update BR is slightly better than Magnum, and was switched out for Magnum at every opportunity, making it the 2nd-most-used weapon aside from Magnum. There is significant risk that the updated BR will no lobger be better than (or possibly even as good as) the Magnum.
If the BR is no longer better than the Magnum, the variety of weapons utilized will plummet. The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
Even if the update succeeds in reducing role redundancy among non-Magnum weapons, all of these weapons have been nerfed equally (respective to each other), but disproportionally respective to the Magnum. The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
I CAN GUARENTEE THIS:
Pre-update BR is slightly better than Magnum, and was switched out for Magnum at every opportunity, making it the 2nd-most-used weapon aside from Magnum.
There is significant risk that the updated BR will no lobger be better than (or possibly even as good as) the Magnum.
If the BR is no longer better than the Magnum, the variety of weapons utilized will plummet.
The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
Even if the update succeeds in reducing role redundancy among non-Magnum weapons, all of these weapons have been nerfed equally (respective to each other), but disproportionally respective to the Magnum.
The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
I believe giving us 5 posts in one day, all saying relatively the same thing, has gotten your message across.

Oh, and when I was looking this up I found this and thought it was interesting:
The BR nerf is my favorite. "Perfect" medals used to be a dime a dozen. Now I'm lucky to get one per game. This is a GOOD thing. A slightly longer average kill time is a GOOD thing for Halo 5. The movement is fast enough to speed the game up drastically. We don't need both fast movement AND low kill times. That's simply TOO fast for Halo.
Granted this was back in September during the test phase, but I still find it interesting that you are now concerned about the BR not being on par with the Magnum when the test BR had even greater issues with consistency.
I can't believe they have done this it's like thay purposefully broken the game I generally play between 6 and 11 hours a day this update especially for the BR has completely ruined the game for me I guess I'll have to find something else to play
Thank you, 343, for regularly adjusting a game for us that is two years old. Greatly appreciated.
Please review the changes made to the BR, though. Thanks!
For the love of Cortana, GIVE US THE OLD BR BACK. PLEASE. I'M BEGGING YOU.
Guys how much is the update? like spacewise?
The tuning for the most parts felt good. But the BRs not right. I get re-balancing, but taking the #1 tool of destruction and reducing its usefulness to one specific distance two years into the game seems to be a mistake. I have over 20 of them to choose from in Warzone, and I’m opting to stick with the pistol.
Guys how much is the update? like spacewise?
It depends on where you are at in the update history. After the update you will total out at 106.5GB
The AR seems about the same "overall strength" as before but very, very different to use (and more difficult)...
I think a lot of people aren't used to that yet and haven't seen just how good it is when used optimally (spamming the trigger).
Meanwhile on the other side, people aren't used to the headshot multiplier and think it's way too good.
Both opinions are existing simultaneously in the community because it's such a dramatic difference from how it used to work.

I really like the overall direction (making headshots more valuable) but think it's just a bit too much -- shield damage is a tad too low and headshot bonus a tad too high.
Also, the reticle just looks a bit odd and out of place being that small.
I think something more between the current version & original version would be perfect in regards to those 3 aspects, although I think the reduced magnetism for headshots is 100% needed as-is. You shouldn't get a headshot if you're aiming at the shoulder.

But moreover, this update still doesn't address the issue that simply "spamming the trigger" was & continues to be the best way to use it.
A "short, controlled" burst doesn't mean rapidly tapping the button as fast as humanly possible, and doing so shouldn't allow you to keep all your accuracy without sacrificing kill time the way it does.

This is the main issue that's always been present with the AR, and 343 still hasn't even acknowledge it's even a thing.
It's the strength while spamming this abuse that people are concerned about when they say the AR is OP, especially at higher levels.

Increase the maximum bloom size but add a very small delay before the bloom resets, to prevent the near auto-reset we have now. The way it works now basically resembles a rapid-fire mod.
This will make the optimal usage be more in the area of 2 short bursts for shields, and a final half-burst to finish off with the headshot.

Guys how much is the update? like spacewise?
I think like 14.6 GB or around there.
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