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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Guys how much is the update? like spacewise?
The download is about 15 gig - though that can vary depending on previous updates not being installed. It won't take up that amount of space on your drive though, looks like maybe 6 or 7 gig which will be further reduced in a hotfix pretty soon
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Any prayer we get reverted to pre-update BR while it's worked on? That's assuming it's worked on?
Next change the people want: Revert Breakout back to SMGs/magnums/no shields and bring back or retune some of the other old maps!
BR is absolutely useless now, compared to a magnum and other weapons such as the AR. The BR/DMR should be better than the Magnum, and I can't believe they were nerfed. The BR in first place, I felt like it was useless if you had a magnum. Now they went and made it even more so worse. I can't understand why? Grenades seem a lot fairer now in blast radius. But this weapon tune has messed up the game for me and my friends. And I'm guessing I'm not the only one with this opinion.
To begin with, I feel like the BR tuning was pretty good. It effectively made the BR a mid-range weapon instead of a mid-long range weapon. I have, however, experienced some problems with BR/magnum confrontations. It feels like the magnum can out-duel a BR at any range, especially long range. It is definitely frustrating to face a magnum user with my BR because it feels like 8/10 encounters end in my death. It also seems like, in fewer cases, the Magnum can out-duel a DMR.I feel like an appropriate magnum tuning should go as follows:
  • Reduce damage, making it a 5 body 1 headshot kill.
  • Slightly increase fire rate to make up for that loss of damage
  • Increase spread for a slightly less consistent shot
  • Reduce red reticle range to effectively shorten the magnum's range
Out of these four suggestions, I believe the last two are the most important. In short, I want the magnum to have more of a Halo: Reach feel with a little less range and spread. What do you all think of this?
Grenades don't seem worth using much in campaign, they won't do enough damage to kill a shielded Elite, and the blast radius is so small you'll be lucky to get more than a handful of Grunts with one.

Considering grenades like the frag aren't all that common they should be more effective than that. I miss the CE frags in that regard. Now THOSE were frag grenades.

I'm liking the BR changes, it was never supposed to be a "do everything" gun, just a mid range precision rifle for specialist use. If anything the AR should be the "do everything" gun, it's the standard infantry rifle for the whole of the UNSC. Standard issue, general purpose, etc etc.

Magnum seems a little over powerful though. I mean, I get it, it's a .50 caliber handgun, it SHOULD pack a mean punch, but not at anything past mid range at best and THAT should be pushing it.
The range on the magnum should not be greater than the BR. The magnum should not be able to be more consistent and out shoot the BR at range. I feel like that makes pretty good sense. The BR right now is really inconsistent and has become a short range weapon because of how accurate the magnum is at medium to long ranges.
Edited previous rant...I'm sorry but I was about to cry over the bad matchmaking update last night. When I get sad...I get angry.

I was really enjoying playing some Halo 5 over the last couple of months. My friend has come back also. He said "I enjoyed playing Halo the last week or two but now they've broken the game." So 343 why did you have to go and change the game? The matchmaking is so bad now! It's all stupid anyways... like nothing was wrong... like why can't I have a four-shot BR across the map??? I'm too OP and too Skilled an they got no skills? I wasn't the best when I come back a couple of months ago but I set there and played and got better. I got my skills up and I was finally able to get like 20 plus kills a game. The challange makes halo fun. Now all I find is lagging Players and I can't get off... I can't get my kills because you changed the game! I'm so sick of this stuff. I want to play Halo and I don't want Halo play me!!! God... I'm done... I'm not gonna sit here and play this laggy matchmaking. I had a High KDR in slayer last season 5.0...now I have a 0.3... please fix 343 change it back...change it back now please and Thank you.
No Hunter claw Commendations! D:
cjet97 wrote:
To begin with, I feel like the BR tuning was pretty good. It effectively made the BR a mid-range weapon instead of a mid-long range weapon. I have, however, experienced some problems with BR/magnum confrontations. It feels like the magnum can out-duel a BR at any range, especially long range. It is definitely frustrating to face a magnum user with my BR because it feels like 8/10 encounters end in my death. It also seems like, in fewer cases, the Magnum can out-duel a DMR.I feel like an appropriate magnum tuning should go as follows:
  • Reduce damage, making it a 5 body 1 headshot kill.
  • Slightly increase fire rate to make up for that loss of damage
  • Increase spread for a slightly less consistent shot
  • Reduce red reticle range to effectively shorten the magnum's range
Out of these four suggestions, I believe the last two are the most important. In short, I want the magnum to have more of a Halo: Reach feel with a little less range and spread. What do you all think of this?
Absolutely no to nerfing the Magnum. It is perfect the way it is and it stands as the baseline weapon for the sandbox. The other weapons should be tailored around it. This is not to suggest that the BR, Carbine, DMR, and SMG couldn't use some further adjustments to better align their performance around the Magnum.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Magnum > BR = No need to pick up BR = Magnum now accounts for EVEN MORE % of total kills = less weapon variety usage = exactly the opposite of the "balancing" effect you were looking for with this update.
The solution is simple: replace the OP Magnum with BR loadouts.
All problems solved.
Send me a PM if you'd like to hire me; I'm in the hunt for better work!
The magnum is too powerful compared to the other weapons. Magnum needs either nerfed or replaced by BR as starting weapon.
The simplest solution would be to swap all BRs and Magnums, both in loadouts and on-map.
The BR used to be slightly better than the loadout magnum, and you could find it on-map.
Now that the Magnum is slightly better than the BR, swapping the two would make perfect sense and be a simple, effective fix.
If the BR average kill time decreases TO ANY DEGREE, it's current, minor advantage over the magnum will disappear altogether, and it's usefulness will be all but lost in the face of the now-almighty magnum.
Magnum > BR = Magnum is used for all but extreme close and extreme long-range fights; BR (and Carbine) are useless, and considering the overall nerf (increase in avg kill times [average, NOT perfect or suboptimal]), to the AR, SMG, and DMR, they will be used less as well.
The only way to fix it all is with BR starts, NOT MAGNUM STARTS.
Pre-update BR is slightly better than Magnum, and was switched out for Magnum at every opportunity, making it the 2nd-most-used weapon aside from Magnum. There is significant risk that the updated BR will no lobger be better than (or possibly even as good as) the Magnum.
If the BR is no longer better than the Magnum, the variety of weapons utilized will plummet. The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
Even if the update succeeds in reducing role redundancy among non-Magnum weapons, all of these weapons have been nerfed equally (respective to each other), but disproportionally respective to the Magnum. The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
I CAN GUARENTEE THIS:
Pre-update BR is slightly better than Magnum, and was switched out for Magnum at every opportunity, making it the 2nd-most-used weapon aside from Magnum.
There is significant risk that the updated BR will no lobger be better than (or possibly even as good as) the Magnum.
If the BR is no longer better than the Magnum, the variety of weapons utilized will plummet.
The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
Even if the update succeeds in reducing role redundancy among non-Magnum weapons, all of these weapons have been nerfed equally (respective to each other), but disproportionally respective to the Magnum.
The Magnum will dominate percent of total kills, even moreso than now.
I believe giving us 5 posts in one day, all saying relatively the same thing, has gotten your message across.

Oh, and when I was looking this up I found this and thought it was interesting:
The BR nerf is my favorite. "Perfect" medals used to be a dime a dozen. Now I'm lucky to get one per game. This is a GOOD thing. A slightly longer average kill time is a GOOD thing for Halo 5. The movement is fast enough to speed the game up drastically. We don't need both fast movement AND low kill times. That's simply TOO fast for Halo.
Granted this was back in September during the test phase, but I still find it interesting that you are now concerned about the BR
not being on par with the Magnum when the test BR had even greater issues with consistency.
I see what you mean, but there is in fact no contradiction here still. The Weapon Tuning Playlist (September) was BR starts, and so was not dominated by Magnum. I very much enjoyed it.

I am and was happy with a very nerfed (September) or slightly nerfed (overtime) BR, but ONLY if Magnums are not the default loadout, rendering any BR aside from Vanilla BR useless by comparison.
I like most of the changes to the weapons and think that its great that 343 still wants to update 5. The only complaint that I have is the BR. I think you may have missed the mark with the BR. I can't stand to use it now. I hope that you will listen to the community complaints and take another look at it.
i think that every thing in that weapon tuning test thing was really great
-I'm a big fan of making the AR less of a jack of all trades.

-The Railgun's intended role was definitely much more than it should be, but at this point, I think a Spartan Laser would be more useful. I think the charge time was fine, but to make it less of an any-range snapshot weapon and avoid making it a weaker version of the Spartan Laser, I think it would've been more effective for it NOT to be a one-shot kill and for the auto aim to go down a lot. HEAR ME OUT. If we don't want it to be such an easy, fast close range kill, it should pop shields and maybe have some kind of strong stun/flinch effect, so it would be useful over the plasma pistol. It would become hard to use in close range because of the reduced auto aim, (Like trying to snapshot someone) and it wouldn't be able to keep up with the movement speed and abilities because of this, unless you're skilled. Then, you'd have to swap to your other weapon to clean up the kill. But if it had the auto aim it does now, but only while ADS, it would be a long range suppression weapon, not a snapshot weapon like it used to be, or like it is now, a bad Splaser.

-The BR definitely needed a nerf and reducing the rof and all that helps, but one thing that's always bugged me with three round burst is how it's so inconsistent. So with that said, the BR's a bit too weak now imo with how hard it is to get a simple 4 shot, because one or two bullets of the burst won't connect so much.

Other than that, I think I agree with pretty much everything. On another note, I have the "Could not find a suitable server" error happening every time I try to launch matchmaking. Sooooo, I haven't had the chance to really try any of this. I can usually fix it by signing in/out repeatedly, and it fixes itself. Can't say that's worked this time.
eLantern wrote:
cjet97 wrote:
To begin with, I feel like the BR tuning was pretty good. It effectively made the BR a mid-range weapon instead of a mid-long range weapon. I have, however, experienced some problems with BR/magnum confrontations. It feels like the magnum can out-duel a BR at any range, especially long range. It is definitely frustrating to face a magnum user with my BR because it feels like 8/10 encounters end in my death. It also seems like, in fewer cases, the Magnum can out-duel a DMR.I feel like an appropriate magnum tuning should go as follows:
  • Reduce damage, making it a 5 body 1 headshot kill.
  • Slightly increase fire rate to make up for that loss of damage
  • Increase spread for a slightly less consistent shot
  • Reduce red reticle range to effectively shorten the magnum's range
Out of these four suggestions, I believe the last two are the most important. In short, I want the magnum to have more of a Halo: Reach feel with a little less range and spread. What do you all think of this?
Absolutely no to nerfing the Magnum. It is perfect the way it is and it stands as the baseline weapon for the sandbox. The other weapons should be tailored around it. This is not to suggest that the BR, Carbine, DMR, and SMG couldn't use some further adjustments to better align their performance around the Magnum.
I don't think the magnum is perfect the way it is. Its long range can make it out duel a DMR in some cases. When a weapon can out-duel multiple weapons in their respective ranges, it should be considered for a nerf. I typically agree with the buffing of guns rather than nerfing, but in this case, you would just have multiple multi ranged weapons, which is what this update was trying to solve.
eLantern wrote:
cjet97 wrote:
To begin with, I feel like the BR tuning was pretty good. It effectively made the BR a mid-range weapon instead of a mid-long range weapon. I have, however, experienced some problems with BR/magnum confrontations. It feels like the magnum can out-duel a BR at any range, especially long range. It is definitely frustrating to face a magnum user with my BR because it feels like 8/10 encounters end in my death. It also seems like, in fewer cases, the Magnum can out-duel a DMR.I feel like an appropriate magnum tuning should go as follows:
  • Reduce damage, making it a 5 body 1 headshot kill.
  • Slightly increase fire rate to make up for that loss of damage
  • Increase spread for a slightly less consistent shot
  • Reduce red reticle range to effectively shorten the magnum's range
Out of these four suggestions, I believe the last two are the most important. In short, I want the magnum to have more of a Halo: Reach feel with a little less range and spread. What do you all think of this?
Absolutely no to nerfing the Magnum. It is perfect the way it is and it stands as the baseline weapon for the sandbox. The other weapons should be tailored around it. This is not to suggest that the BR, Carbine, DMR, and SMG couldn't use some further adjustments to better align their performance around the Magnum.
FML, I had a nice little post going in response to you eLantern, and I accidentally erased it! I won't go into all that again, but just say this. I really don't believe that the Carbine, SMG, and DMR need to align with the Magnum. I am appreciating each weapon's role that they now play, although that DMR's RoF...damn it feels slow.

The BR, I will admit, I am still slightly on the fence about. I need more time with this. I will be picking it up whenever I can, and I encourage others to do the same. Even though we may be having trouble with the change, and don't like it. What better way to help 343 make a decision and change that RRR a bit than to give them the data that they need? Yes, posting here does the trick as well, but those guys love their numbers.

It's only been a day guys. Be patient, and keep playing.
cjet97 wrote:
eLantern wrote:
cjet97 wrote:
To begin with, I feel like the BR tuning was pretty good. It effectively made the BR a mid-range weapon instead of a mid-long range weapon. I have, however, experienced some problems with BR/magnum confrontations. It feels like the magnum can out-duel a BR at any range, especially long range. It is definitely frustrating to face a magnum user with my BR because it feels like 8/10 encounters end in my death. It also seems like, in fewer cases, the Magnum can out-duel a DMR.I feel like an appropriate magnum tuning should go as follows:
  • Reduce damage, making it a 5 body 1 headshot kill.
  • Slightly increase fire rate to make up for that loss of damage
  • Increase spread for a slightly less consistent shot
  • Reduce red reticle range to effectively shorten the magnum's range
Out of these four suggestions, I believe the last two are the most important. In short, I want the magnum to have more of a Halo: Reach feel with a little less range and spread. What do you all think of this?
Absolutely no to nerfing the Magnum. It is perfect the way it is and it stands as the baseline weapon for the sandbox. The other weapons should be tailored around it. This is not to suggest that the BR, Carbine, DMR, and SMG couldn't use some further adjustments to better align their performance around the Magnum.
I don't think the magnum is perfect the way it is. Its long range can make it out duel a DMR in some cases. When a weapon can out-duel multiple weapons in their respective ranges, it should be considered for a nerf. I typically agree with the buffing of guns rather than nerfing, but in this case, you would just have multiple multi ranged weapons, which is what this update was trying to solve.
The Magnum used to match and balance reasonable well with most other weapons. However, the Overdrive update has NEEFED most other weapons, leaving the Magnum alone. This means that the Magnum now dominates them, whereas it used to simply match them.

Retuning other weapons like BR, Carbine, DMR, AR UP to match the magnum would then leave all the other weapons that were nerfed inferior.

It is now the Magnum that is the problem - not everything else. Therefore, the simplest solution would be to NERF it and make it slightly inferior to BR (as was the case Pre-update), or simply replace it with the BR as the loadout weapon.

Either of these would solve 99% of our current "OP MAGNUM" problem.
Replacing the magnum with BR as the loadout weapon would basicall make H5 into H3 + increased mobility.

I think a slightly faster-paced, more weapon balanced H3 would be a hard game to beat, and I think we are right on the cusp of that.
I'm confused as what is meant by "tuning."

Is that something that either weakens or strengthens a weapon?
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