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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Needed This Late In The Game?

OP Wythern

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Im curious to hear everyone's opinions on the weapon tuning, do you think it's good or unnecessary. Personally I think it really isn't needed, this late changing the way weapons work isn't really necessary, people have already gotten used to the way they work over the last 2 years. Halo doesn't need to be pin point accurate with complete weapon balancing, you know. There is no need to have such a heavy focus on weapon fairness just because 343 is obsessed with the HCS pro league, but that's just my opinion, of course some weapons could use some tuning, but definitely not as many as there are. Anyways what are your opinions.
You know, not everything is because of the HCS. The second balance is mentioned anywhere on here people love to blame HCS or competitive players like it's their fault... Maybe 343 just want to make their game better. Jesus.

This weapon balance is actually long overdue and the fact that it took them almost 2 years or numerous months for the newer weapons to address these problems which they've obviously known about is very disheartening. I'd rather use a harsher word, but I'll leave it at that.
I think it is unnecessary at this point really. Also yeah I kinda blame the HCS/competitive players. Don't get me wrong I love HCS and competitive play but some seem to think every playlist needs to play like HCS. That being said this weapon balance change may not be bad. I am not afraid of change. Why not try something different at this point in time? The changes maybe good. We will have to wait to see. What I do wish they would do though is keep the changes strictly to HCS playlist. I don't understand why changes has to be across the board. Guess it is just easier that way. Or it could be them tuning and getting a better idea on weapon balance for H6 multiplayer which is probably in it's infancy right now.
Personally I see the weapon tuning update as a "test" for halo 6. The reason why they are doing this in halo 5 is to give the changes to players who are still playing halo (you can say experienced players) but they don't want to have a full blown beta for it, if the beta isn't ready.
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I bring this up due to the h4 weapon tuning update. Halo 4 had way too many weapon copies but after their weapon tuning update, all of the weapons had a slightly different change to make the weapons "more unique" from one another. Thus why we see far more (though not perfect) differences in human, covy, and promethean weapons in halo 5. And thus why I think these weapon tuning changes in h5 will be "the tip of the iceberg" for what's to come in h6.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
You know, not everything is because of the HCS. The second balance is mentioned anywhere on here people love to blame HCS or competitive players like it's their fault... Maybe 343 just want to make their game better. Jesus.

This weapon balance is actually long overdue and the fact that it took them almost 2 years or numerous months for the newer weapons to address these problems which they've obviously known about is very disheartening. I'd rather use a harsher word, but I'll leave it at that.
No one Is hating on HCS and competitive players, I clearly stated that it's 343's focus that annoys me I'm competitive to, doesn't mean I want all the weapons to change suddenly this far into the games life
I definitely like Nalla78's train of thought. How it's their way of prepping for H6, which would help cut down on those post-launch tweaks (and subsequent complaints). Hopefully putting out a more polished and refined multiplayer at release.
Nalla78 wrote:
Personally I see the weapon tuning update as a "test" for halo 6. The reason why they are doing this in halo 5 is to give the changes to players who are still playing halo (you can say experienced players) but they don't want to have a full blown beta for it, if the beta isn't ready.
Spoiler:
Show
I bring this up due to the h4 weapon tuning update. Halo 4 had way too many weapon copies but after their weapon tuning update, all of the weapons had a slightly different change to make the weapons "more unique" from one another. Thus why we see far more (though not perfect) differences in human, covy, and promethean weapons in halo 5. And thus why I think these weapon tuning changes in h5 will be "the tip of the iceberg" for what's to come in h6.
I'm kind of thinking along these lines as well.

I have no issues with them testing weapons out in a playlist and maybe some of them get changed, who knows... but what I have issue with is, if they change the radar to the "Ability tracker" one that is currently in the HCS. I don't care what the settings are in HCS playlist that's fine if they want things differently... it's always been that way at the pro level, just like back in the day with MLG.... But the rest of the game should be the same. Also there are lots of people out there who want to play ranked who don't want Pro settings, I would say the majority actually. Why you would want to change the radar that has been this way since the beginning aka Halo CE and has worked perfectly is just dumb. Not to mention, it'll just fuel the fire for people who are like "oh look, a other thing 343I has changed in Halo unnecessarily... "

The Radar isn't the problem, the Spartan abilities are. Either scape the Spartan abilities and go to a Halo 1-3 style with power ups and/or equipment on the maps as pick up items.... Or make your Spartan abilities work around the Radar. Maybe that means tweaking, changing or completely rethinking how an ability works. Obviously I don't mean this for 5 I'm talking about future Halo games. Though you could tweak the Spartan abilities in 5 if you wanted to though. For example, I've seen a pile of people complain about Spartan charge. Personally as long as Sprint is in Halo I think the idea of Spartan charge is a good one. It fixes the run in double melee hit perfectly. The problem is you made it track too much activate too easily and have no cool down time. If you changed Spartan charge with some of the ideas that people have said, I'm 100% convinced it would be much more accepted.

I know this sounds like it's just about the radar but it's not. I just want 343I to stop changing things that have been in and worked well since the beginning. Everything from iconic music (thank goodness the Halo theme is semi back now... But why you felt the need to change the master chief theme is beyond me!!! That theme that's always played when the chief goes to kick some -Yoink-!!! Name escapes me at the moment but I will find it out, I'm not home to look at my soundtracks lol) game features (lack Split screen, LAN, I know they're both supposed to be in 6) how the UI looks, particularly the pregame Lobby (Halo 1-3 and Reach, especially Reach, was perfection!) On how weapons work/feel/look... Why would you change the BR??? (When Halo 4 first came out) it was widely accepted as it was. I can understand some other weapons 100% but my god... Or waste time and resources on making a new rocket launcher??? Why?? Nothing was wrong with the old one... how many times did you hear people complain in the past about wanting a new looking rocket launcher?? LoL ya, it's funny because it's that's many lol ....Or changing how the zoom looks!?!?! Again, how many times in the past did people complain about how zoom looked?? I've been playing since CE and I can count on one hand how many. Don't make your game look like everyone else's... use what you had and upgrade that!!! And now it's sounding like the Radar is next.

If you want to add new and different stuff (which obviously we all want) then I would do it with the attitude of "will this make the game better? Why are we doing this? Is this necessary? How will this affect the core gameplay? How will this affect such and such and so on.

I know I'm semi off topic here and I apologize, I've just been in a lot of these discussions lately on here and in "real life" lol but I feel like it relates.

I had about 15 friends playing Halo 1-3 and Reach at any given time. About half of us played everything, the other half was pure multiplayer. Out of those 15 I would say 5 stopped due to things changing in their life. Out of the 10 that remain only 3 of us still play Halo, yet we all still play lots of other video games so it's not like we don't game anymore. Out of the 3 of us, only one of us really plays multiplayer... Me. I've asked my friends numerous times why they don't want to play multiplayer or anything for that matter, and I always get them all to try the newest Halo (4 and now 5, some even buy it) but they've all said stuff similar to what I've said in this post and other things. They don't like how this isn't in, or why that has changed or how that works and do. It makes no sense to them and a lot of it to me doesn't either.

I'm not a 343I hater or fanboy at all and I don't want the same game 10 years in a row. I love Halo and certain things about 5 I think are great, but holy crap!! I'm just really tired of change for the sake of change.

Again, apologies for getting off topic and the bit of a rant
Wythern wrote:
No one Is hating on HCS and competitive players, I clearly stated that it's 343's focus that annoys me I'm competitive to, doesn't mean I want all the weapons to change suddenly this far into the games life
I didn't say you were hating, but you are indirectly blaming HCS. You're basically saying if 343 wasn't so obsessed with HCS which is all about weapon fairness, we wouldn't be having this update because they wouldn't be so obsessed with weapon fairness brought upon by HCS.

I don't buy the whole life span argument. Weapons and vehicles have been added throughout the game's life and people got along just fine for the most part with some minor grievances. The sniper's aim assist was changed not to long ago and people have adapted to that change without issues as far as I can tell. This won't be much different. After a week, I'd bet most people won't even notice the changes anymore. We also have a potential of two more years with this game if it comes out in 2019 so that's plenty of time to adapt.
Love the "343 is catering to HCS" mentality lulz, people need to really look into that before claiming so cause it's naive at its best.

the weapon balance for H5 is pointless, as noted, it's two years in and the game is nothing but dwindling in numbers. At this point it's to late. It's possible that it's paving the way for H6, but we don't know how H6 is built (we do know that they've stated H6 would be built off H5 though) to really know this, just speculation for now.
I have to agree that in general the two year mark is way too late to be changing the game. Some of the weapon nerfs may not even be noticable to a hack like me, but if they are then I'll be annoyed, especially where loadout weapons are concerned. Changing the MT to an Ability Tracker is just an example of change for the sake of change, so that people who want a new challenge can have one, and people who rely on some degree of continuity be damned.
the weapon balance for H5 is pointless, as noted, it's two years in and the game is nothing but dwindling in numbers. At this point it's to late.
I personally think it's just something to fill content since they're pretty much done with REQ's. I'd rather have it done over not doing it at all, but it is disappointing that they're doing it now instead of a long time ago.

Just to add since it's being discussed, I don't really agree with the motion tracker change and if it's added to other playlists.
A lot of people are saying it's pointless, but how do we know how much longer Halo 5 has to last? We have no information on Halo 6 whatsoever, it could be another 2 years before it comes out. Wouldn't you rather the weapons be retuned sooner rather than later if we are going to be playing this game for an extended period of time after it?
I dont think this is for the benefit of H5. I reckon this is a test bed for the direction 343 want H6 to go. A sort of rough proof of concept.
I dont think this is for the benefit of H5. I reckon this is a test bed for the direction 343 want H6 to go. A sort of rough proof of concept.
This could very well be true. I am leery of the size of the update. To me there is more going on than just "tuning".
p.s. And 4k
Bionicled wrote:
I dont think this is for the benefit of H5. I reckon this is a test bed for the direction 343 want H6 to go. A sort of rough proof of concept.
This could very well be true. I am leery of the size of the update. To me there is more going on than just "tuning".
p.s. And 4k
Tossing my vote in for those musing it might be done mostly to test reactions for initial balancing for Halo 6.

Still, it's easy to say that - for Halo 5 specifically - this update is pointless or doesn't matter because it's late or 'because population'. That said, for those who do remain and do still play, I'm pretty sure this does affect them - so it matters to those who are still here. I'm pretty excited to see how these changes play out, even if I am a little miffed that the Pool of Radiance will remain a "Just sell it" item and the Twin Jewels will continue to not fulfill its alleged role as an anti-armor weapon (It does wreck infantry real quick, but it was said to have benefit against vehicles and I just don't see it)
I just thought I'd mention that ske7ch also said they're looking at the Banshee as well. The flips might get a nerf.

Link
The funny thing is that they're just addressing the exact same concerns that people had during the beta.
Those concerns were raised by players of all level -- it had nothing to do with HCS, it was based on fairness.

But now that 90% of the people who said they didn't like the game due to poor balance & pacing... guess what, they quit.
Now guess who's left to advocate for fairness? That's right, HCS.

SMH, this ridiculous "casual vs. competitive" narrative is entirely contrived and the waypoint forums are falling for it hook, line & sinker.
No other community is this naive, eg.
  • You look at even the noobiest places like gamefaqs and you hear the same balance complaints coming out of Bronze 2's who don't even know what an esport is.
  • You look at youtube and people say the game is too fast paced and complicated, but they blame 343 for inaction rather than HCS influence.
Sure you might find the occasional comment but only on waypoint do you find the overwhelming majority blaming fellow fans for the issue rather than realising that it's their beloved & omnipotent 343 that ultimately make the decisions at the end of the day.

The fact that this balance update took 2 years should tell you something.
  • They clearly aren't motivated by competitive fans or it wouldn't take this long
  • They clearly aren't motivated by casual fans or it wouldn't happen at all
Watch the "ex bungie vs 343 employees" comparison youtube to find out what their motivation is.
Bungie was all about making something fun, something they would want to play... 343 is all about "driving an artistic narrative" or whatever hipster lingo they use...
Their motivation is to pad their resumes.
  • Worked on competitive esport AAA title
  • Worked on creative new mechanics on AAA title
  • Worked on new art style on AAA title
  • Worked on new story direction on AAA title
  • Worked on maintenance and DLC updates on AAA title
  • Worked on micro-transactions on AAA title
  • Worked on weapon balancing on AAA title
Stop blaming each other for poor decisions & lack of action of the developer.
The balancing took this long because they don't care about the game, they care about crossing all things off their checklist.
The only reason they bother to do this at all is so they can put it on the resume & do free testing for H6.

Want to know the easiest way for a boss to avoid blame? By pretending to be on everyone's side.
To X: "Oh gee, I'd really like to help you out but Y is blocking me."
To Y: "Oh gee, I'd really like to help you out but X is blocking me."
The people end up liking the boss & blaming each other instead of realising who's ultimately the one not taking action.
This is exactly what 343 has done every step -- they "want" to be competitive but "can't" because of casual. They "want" to be casual but "can't" because of competitive.

Wake up. 343 does what 343 wants and instead of holding them accountable, you blame each other.

Note: I'm referring to overall management direction, not individual employees.
A lot of the guys working on these updates legitimately care about the game & the community, but it's management that ultimately decides things.

These balancing updates are a good thing regardless of which "side" you're on, at least the ground-level employees are trying to make a difference.
Please just try to test things out, give them a chance, post your honest feedback & try to be constructive because this test is going probably going to set a lot of standards for the direction of H6.
Sylxeria wrote:
Bionicled wrote:
I dont think this is for the benefit of H5. I reckon this is a test bed for the direction 343 want H6 to go. A sort of rough proof of concept.
This could very well be true. I am leery of the size of the update. To me there is more going on than just "tuning".
p.s. And 4k
Tossing my vote in for those musing it might be done mostly to test reactions for initial balancing for Halo 6.

Still, it's easy to say that - for Halo 5 specifically - this update is pointless or doesn't matter because it's late or 'because population'. That said, for those who do remain and do still play, I'm pretty sure this does affect them - so it matters to those who are still here. I'm pretty excited to see how these changes play out, even if I am a little miffed that the Pool of Radiance will remain a "Just sell it" item and the Twin Jewels will continue to not fulfill its alleged role as an anti-armor weapon (It does wreck infantry real quick, but it was said to have benefit against vehicles and I just don't see it)
Excellent points. If they are trying to kill 2 birds with one stone and it works that would be great. Whether H6 comes out in 1 or 2 years, hopefully this update will increase H5 longevity. Especially now that there are some new people due to the play pass.

I agree with the Pool and the Jewels, although it is fun to "sweep" spartans with Jewels. There are much better weapons for vehicles, i.e., Arclight.
I still play regularly, although not as often. It will not make any difference to me.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
You know, not everything is because of the HCS. The second balance is mentioned anywhere on here people love to blame HCS or competitive players like it's their fault... Maybe 343 just want to make their game better. Jesus.

This weapon balance is actually long overdue and the fact that it took them almost 2 years or numerous months for the newer weapons to address these problems which they've obviously known about is very disheartening. I'd rather use a harsher word, but I'll leave it at that.
Yeah, because a camo buff was DEFINITELY needed in global balancing. It totally doesn't worsen the problem of camo camping in WZ! /s

I do agree with some of these changes (Like the smg and beam rifle adjustments), but with a buff like that towards a powerup that's already strong and viable in terms of global balance, they've pretty much confirmed that they only care about the HCS community at this point.

You can't say that "this isn't the fault of the HCS community" when global changes like a camo buff happen in Halo 5.
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