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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase One Feedback - 9/6-9/10

OP ske7ch

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RzR J3ST3R wrote:
After playing a bit more this weekend, I'm noticing that the BR start has fundamentally changed the flow of the games, on every map. With magnum starts you used to be able to have a bit more freedom of movement around the maps, and could move around on your own a bit, and if you were smart about it, often get away even if you encountered 2 enemies.

Now you have to be FAR more careful about where you poke your head, because if 2 enemies happen to be looking your way at that moment, you're going to get instantly killed by their teamshot, because the BR has such a massive combination of range, autoaim, and damage output. It's similar to the feeling of everyone having snipers at all times, though slightly less intense. Now, I'll be coming off spawn running through blue fountain on Coli, and suddenly I'm 2-shot from a guy sitting on red elbow, scoped in watching spawns like a sniper, and i get cleaned up by a teammate pushing from sniper. Before, a team needed a sniper to exert that kind of map pressure. Now you can do it with starting loadouts. I think it's slowing the game down...

Playing TA with BR starts just makes me appreciate the magnum starts of HCS even more.
I agree I don't like it
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
After playing a bit more this weekend, I'm noticing that the BR start has fundamentally changed the flow of the games, on every map. With magnum starts you used to be able to have a bit more freedom of movement around the maps, and could move around on your own a bit, and if you were smart about it, often get away even if you encountered 2 enemies.

Now you have to be FAR more careful about where you poke your head, because if 2 enemies happen to be looking your way at that moment, you're going to get instantly killed by their teamshot, because the BR has such a massive combination of range, autoaim, and damage output. It's similar to the feeling of everyone having snipers at all times, though slightly less intense. Now, I'll be coming off spawn running through blue fountain on Coli, and suddenly I'm 2-shot from a guy sitting on red elbow, scoped in watching spawns like a sniper, and i get cleaned up by a teammate pushing from sniper. Before, a team needed a sniper to exert that kind of map pressure. Now you can do it with starting loadouts. I think it's slowing the game down...

Playing TA with BR starts just makes me appreciate the magnum starts of HCS even more.
The way I perceive this truth (BR starts) is that it creates more pressure to achieve good team positioning and more opportunity (via the BRs strengths) to challenge that positioning.
SHREYAS wrote:
Hey guys I know it sounds a little crazy but... what if the gunfighter magnum was as powerful as the regular h5 magnum. Also with better sights equal to regular one. Because if you make it fun to use it will actually make the mechanics for it a lot crazier and it wouldn't hurt to test the potential. Just as a test... see how the increased damage will playout. Back me up if you agree or disagree which ever.
so nobody is going to acknowledge a really great idea then lol
SHREYAS wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
Hey guys I know it sounds a little crazy but... what if the gunfighter magnum was as powerful as the regular h5 magnum. Also with better sights equal to regular one. Because if you make it fun to use it will actually make the mechanics for it a lot crazier and it wouldn't hurt to test the potential. Just as a test... see how the increased damage will playout. Back me up if you agree or disagree which ever.
so nobody is going to acknowledge a really great idea then lol
I think its more that nobody wants to tell you that balancing is much more complex and subtle than that, AND that your iteration if the GF mag would very likely be OP...no offense :)
RollCats wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
Hey guys I know it sounds a little crazy but... what if the gunfighter magnum was as powerful as the regular h5 magnum. Also with better sights equal to regular one. Because if you make it fun to use it will actually make the mechanics for it a lot crazier and it wouldn't hurt to test the potential. Just as a test... see how the increased damage will playout. Back me up if you agree or disagree which ever.
so nobody is going to acknowledge a really great idea then lol
I think its more that nobody wants to tell you that balancing is much more complex and subtle than that, AND that your iteration if the GF mag would very likely be OP...no offense :)
okay but thats the point, honestly the gun should have been op from the start to have fun.. to be honest they should just make a bunch of rappy weapons to just speed up the games mechanics have the gun fighter op so it balances of and you can wipe a team if you can use it right it would be so clean
It feels good, but for me it is going to take time to get use to, but it is really good and all the weapons feel like what they are built for what they are suppose to do.
The weapons, besides the starts and extended nag on GF mag, haven't yet changed. Please read the original post
Hi,

Just giving some feedback on the updated loadouts. While in short range one-on-one combat, I find that the much tanky BR outguns the Gunfighter Magnum. It could probably be a result of me matching up against a much better opponent but I felt I was not able to put up a good fight? But the updated loadout is certainly a welcome change as it provides players with sensible mid-range and short-range options before picking up a DMR or other weapons in the arena.
Man I been bummed out about the no duel wielding in halo 5.. like really i think making the smg super op wouldn't hurt it would be some amazing game play to see people just run around smacking people with relentless fire... honestly even if you guys think it's not going to be fun if people us full auto weapons... but this is ducking war man... you use every ducking advantage to win the war, they don't nerf weapons or make it harder for you to fight wars... as tech eventually evolves it makes the job of killing easier with the weapon systems. Logicly halo should have some wicked weapons to use to obliterate your opponents respectfully. Not op in like fista or nothing just, weapons actually effective enough to drop multiple people single handedly. Instilling fear, and prioritizing your teams duty maintain power weapon control. Instead of this technicality headshot only point system. Make it easier to kill. Duel wielding should have been in halo 4 and 5 really was a great game mechanic and I'm a guy saying this... who played halo 1 from lunch to the launch of halo 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 every single day i got a chance i was on ever single halo day of launch to the next.. lmao Im telling you guys halo need more weapons and new maps that are really good, weapons that can kill quickly and make it priority for the weapon control. so the game revolves around that weapon spawn like the Overshield or Camo. If you guys are going to change stuff up go hard... not semi hard. Bow chicka bow wow. 2 years of halo 5 maybe a handful of maps came out. Back in halo 2 and 3 era.. at least 8 new maps were out which was great.. diversified map rotation in que. It's unpleasant how many games I have played on mercy, molten, and pegasus 2 I hate how there is so little for such a big game.. 100gb of bs... nothing to show for it
SHREYAS wrote:
RollCats wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
Hey guys I know it sounds a little crazy but... what if the gunfighter magnum was as powerful as the regular h5 magnum. Also with better sights equal to regular one. Because if you make it fun to use it will actually make the mechanics for it a lot crazier and it wouldn't hurt to test the potential. Just as a test... see how the increased damage will playout. Back me up if you agree or disagree which ever.
so nobody is going to acknowledge a really great idea then lol
I think its more that nobody wants to tell you that balancing is much more complex and subtle than that, AND that your iteration if the GF mag would very likely be OP...no offense :)
okay but thats the point, honestly the gun should have been op from the start to have fun.. to be honest they should just make a bunch of rappy weapons to just speed up the games mechanics have the gun fighter op so it balances of and you can wipe a team if you can use it right it would be so clean
The point of the tuning test is to help balance out the sandbox not to make one weapon or another OP from the others. Besides quoting yourself and commenting on how no one commented on your idea is not a good way to get people to agree with you.

Now in regards to Phase One of the test there have not been a whole lot of people talking about how they like Strongholds on Stasis or CTF on Torque. Personally I am quite enjoying both. It is a nice change from the same maps and game types on those same maps. My favorite is Strongholds on Stasis along with the Grenade Launcher. Oh man, I am so glad they added this weapon to the test, and to the Team Arena playlist. I haven't had too much opportunity to use this weapon, and I have been recently reminded of how much fun it can be.

I am anxious to see how it changes during the test. This quote from the blog only makes me even more excited about it.
Quote:
...further establishing its role as a mid-tier weapon that’s versatile at applying indirect damage through creative use. This includes how fast the grenade travels, how it bounces, etc…
The next three weeks will be interesting, and I plan on spending every moment of my Halo time in Team Arena to savor every minute of it.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
After playing a bit more this weekend, I'm noticing that the BR start has fundamentally changed the flow of the games, on every map. With magnum starts you used to be able to have a bit more freedom of movement around the maps, and could move around on your own a bit, and if you were smart about it, often get away even if you encountered 2 enemies.

Now you have to be FAR more careful about where you poke your head, because if 2 enemies happen to be looking your way at that moment, you're going to get instantly killed by their teamshot, because the BR has such a massive combination of range, autoaim, and damage output. It's similar to the feeling of everyone having snipers at all times, though slightly less intense. Now, I'll be coming off spawn running through blue fountain on Coli, and suddenly I'm 2-shot from a guy sitting on red elbow, scoped in watching spawns like a sniper, and i get cleaned up by a teammate pushing from sniper. Before, a team needed a sniper to exert that kind of map pressure. Now you can do it with starting loadouts. I think it's slowing the game down...

Playing TA with BR starts just makes me appreciate the magnum starts of HCS even more.
I don't like the Halo 5 Magnum. It's too good. Team Arena just becomes a big Magnum fight without as much variety as there could/should be. However, I LOVE the Gunfighter Magnum as a sidearm.

I think the solution to our BR issues is not to return to Magnum starts for EVERYTHING, but to a) nerf the Battle Rifle so that you don't get ripped apart as soon as you step out of cover and b) have Battle Rifle/Gunfighter Magnum Slayer in the playlists as well as Assault Rifle/Magnum Slayer.
BR/Gunfighter Thoughts:
In my opinion, as of right now, I think the BR is too powerful, especially as a starting loadout weapon. I think the combination of the RRR, bullet magnetism, and pinpoint accuracy it has is too much for the map sizes of the Arena maps. I feel like this makes it too easy to hit/kill people all the way across the map. Also, since the BR is so good, it makes weapons like the DMR and Gunfighter feel useless (or at least very situational). If the BR was okay at hitting close range targets, great at hitting mid-range targets (like it is now), and okay at hitting long range targets, I think it would fit in perfectly into the sandbox. It would let the DMR shine at long ranges and the Gunfighter shine at close quarters. Right now, the BR just feels too powerful at all ranges. This is just my opinion though.
I almost never used the Gunfighter. The only time I felt the need to even get it out was when my BR ran out of ammo mid engagement. I will say, however, other people I fought at close range who used the Gunfighter put a lot of pressure on me because of how fast it fires.

Radar Thoughts:
I love the new ability radar. It promotes map awareness, reduces ability spam (Spartan Charge), and allows for some interesting flanks that wouldn't normally be possible with the old radar. It adds a new Risk vs. Reward element to H5 that I think Halo is all about.

I can't wait to try out the new tuned weapons tomorrow, keep up the great work!
DaxSeven09 wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
RollCats wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
SHREYAS wrote:
Hey guys I know it sounds a little crazy but... what if the gunfighter magnum was as powerful as the regular h5 magnum. Also with better sights equal to regular one. Because if you make it fun to use it will actually make the mechanics for it a lot crazier and it wouldn't hurt to test the potential. Just as a test... see how the increased damage will playout. Back me up if you agree or disagree which ever.
so nobody is going to acknowledge a really great idea then lol
I think its more that nobody wants to tell you that balancing is much more complex and subtle than that, AND that your iteration if the GF mag would very likely be OP...no offense :)
okay but thats the point, honestly the gun should have been op from the start to have fun.. to be honest they should just make a bunch of rappy weapons to just speed up the games mechanics have the gun fighter op so it balances of and you can wipe a team if you can use it right it would be so clean
The point of the tuning test is to help balance out the sandbox not to make one weapon or another OP from the others. Besides quoting yourself and commenting on how no one commented on your idea is not a good way to get people to agree with you.

Now in regards to Phase One of the test there have not been a whole lot of people talking about how they like Strongholds on Stasis or CTF on Torque. Personally I am quite enjoying both. It is a nice change from the same maps and game types on those same maps. My favorite is Strongholds on Stasis along with the Grenade Launcher. Oh man, I am so glad they added this weapon to the test, and to the Team Arena playlist. I haven't had too much opportunity to use this weapon, and I have been recently reminded of how much fun it can be.

I am anxious to see how it changes during the test. This quote from the blog only makes me even more excited about it.
Quote:
...further establishing its role as a mid-tier weapon that’s versatile at applying indirect damage through creative use. This includes how fast the grenade travels, how it bounces, etc…
The next three weeks will be interesting, and I plan on spending every moment of my Halo time in Team Arena to savor every minute of it.
I'm about to increase damage to weapons and run an octagon. Lol
Just finished a Octagon 1v1 with 80% damage resistance because damage dealt is only at 100% It was amazing in my opinion still hard to use. With the current weapon setting for the Gunfighter Magnum. If anyone wants to try a game with the gunfighter with 5 shots to kill like a regular magnum pm, Help me test it, maybe trade some thoughts on it. It's really freaking fun. I'm saving game type on my file share too if anyone trying to see. File name is Gunfighter 5 shots on GT: Shreyas
Hi there. Because we are not currently equipped to provide moderation in other languages, we must ask that all messages be posted in English. Feel free to use an online language translation service, and then create a new thread with the translated text. Sorry for the inconvenience.
La respuesta es lenta y un poco desalentador, ya que hay muchos campers. Regresen al equipamiento normal de Rifle de Batalla y Magnum.
BR start is the only way to go. I've always found it insane that there wasn't a br start playlist.

If arena isn't BR start, then there is no need for separate HCS and Arena playlists. Hell, I think they should both be BR start and merged anyway. Stop spreading the population so thin. There are too many 4 man game types.
Smackzzy wrote:
BR start is the only way to go. I've always found it insane that there wasn't a br start playlist.

If arena isn't BR start, then there is no need for separate HCS and Arena playlists. Hell, I think they should both be BR start and merged anyway. Stop spreading the population so thin. There are too many 4 man game types.
How about a 1v1 gunfighter only, with 5 shots to kill instead of 6 bringing back 1v1 ranked games and make it really interesting
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
I don't like the Halo 5 Magnum. It's too good. Team Arena just becomes a big Magnum fight without as much variety as there could/should be. However, I LOVE the Gunfighter Magnum as a sidearm.

I think the solution to our BR issues is not to return to Magnum starts for EVERYTHING, but to a) nerf the Battle Rifle so that you don't get ripped apart as soon as you step out of cover and b) have Battle Rifle/Gunfighter Magnum Slayer in the playlists as well as Assault Rifle/Magnum Slayer.
Wait... so because the magnum is too good, we should swap to a weapon that's more powerful..? That logic makes no sense. Even with a nerf, the BR would likely be at least as powerful as the H5 magnum. All the games just become BR battles rather than magnum battles.
Well after 50 games I believe I can safely say:

The BR, pre-tuning does not work well as a loadout. The map movement and strategy are stifled because of it. I look forward to the change.

I love the GF Magnum even though my performance with it varies. I believe that is on me and not the weapon itself. I don't see this working so well at long distances. I am not sure why it needs a nerf.

The Carbine is my main pick up when I can. Once again I don't see the need for the nerf here as well. I hope it's not too significant.

The DMR's ease of use warrants some changes there. I don't like it but I get why this is happening.

The SMG...well no need to comment there. We all know this one.

The Rail gun...man this is really one I'm scratching my head at. Wait and see. I will be using that as much as I can because I really don't want it to change all that much.

The Plasma Cannon, and Sword I don't and didn't use all that much, but I am definitely looking forward to that Sword change.

Please after the whole test let's not continue with CTF on Truth. There's a good reason why that was removed. Keep Stasis and Torque the way they are. As well as my beloved Grenade Launcher. I haven't made a montage yet, but my love for this weapon might inspire me to break that.

That's it for now. I'm ready guys and gals. I hope y'all are too!
Wamblewood wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
After playing a bit more this weekend, I'm noticing that the BR start has fundamentally changed the flow of the games, on every map. With magnum starts you used to be able to have a bit more freedom of movement around the maps, and could move around on your own a bit, and if you were smart about it, often get away even if you encountered 2 enemies.

Now you have to be FAR more careful about where you poke your head, because if 2 enemies happen to be looking your way at that moment, you're going to get instantly killed by their teamshot, because the BR has such a massive combination of range, autoaim, and damage output. It's similar to the feeling of everyone having snipers at all times, though slightly less intense. Now, I'll be coming off spawn running through blue fountain on Coli, and suddenly I'm 2-shot from a guy sitting on red elbow, scoped in watching spawns like a sniper, and i get cleaned up by a teammate pushing from sniper. Before, a team needed a sniper to exert that kind of map pressure. Now you can do it with starting loadouts. I think it's slowing the game down...

Playing TA with BR starts just makes me appreciate the magnum starts of HCS even more.
I agree I don't like it
that happens quite often, if that isn't better balanced BR starts will be impossible
Thank you everyone for playing in "Phase One" of the Halo 5 weapon tuning test.

"Phase Two" kicked off today (9/11) with all newly tuned versions of the affected weapons now available to play in the new "Weapon Tuning Test" playlist. Please use THIS THREAD for feedback during Phase Two.
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