Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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After playing a little more, I feel like the GF mag could be a little stronger, but not much else has changed from my last opinion.
SGO SMACK wrote:
What does the randomness of this new BR spread do to players with high latency issues? My guess is people with below average connections are screwed.
what you hit on your screen will count regardless of connection. the only thing latency really affects is movement. you know the "im behind a wall but you still shot me" scenerio. this is one reason i like p2p in halo 3. it connects you to people close to your area. sure p2p can be manipulated and abused by players but i was ok with it as i never really had any issues. think about how much you trade shots in halo 5 and end up killing each other. its because players are too far away from the servers. halo 5 could solves this by adding lots more servers in more areas.
You wrong. People like us who are far away from America will know its more than that. If you know your last shot is in the head and will kill the enemy you can thrust or change direction, Now you have to keep firing after you have killed someone and you end up trading because of it !
Not sure what peoples opinion of the changes are. I do feel that the BR is so inconsistent. I do not know what other weapons were changed but I was not crazy over the BR. For example I saw a player who was not playing anymore so I took my BR shots and hit him 4 times in the head and he did not die, took five shots. Neither one of us were moving. Then later on in another game against a player who was playing, we were both strafing and I know I missed shots on him it somehow still gave me a perfect kill.
i gotta play some more but so far the only weapon i haven't been able to make there intended jobs are DMR & AR...
I completely hate the new BR. So many shots dont count even though i don't miss. I have probably gotten 1-2 perfects with over 200 kils and 60% accuracy, Magnum is completely useless in this playlist. Also, why add a sword to maps like regret? Awful idea in my opinion. Dont even get me started about the SMG...
i havent really played much competitive halo 5. im not a fan of capture the flag. but it keeps putting me on it!
i havent really played much competitive halo 5. im not a fan of capture the flag. but it keeps putting me on it!
Oh man I love CTF! I wish I played it more often. I seem to keep getting Slayer a lot lately.

The best time are the overtime games. I had one last night where I was literally yelling and freaking my dogs out. We won. I got the last cap!

It was a 15 minute game. Awesome!
The BR is terrible.
The BR is terrible.
The BR is awesome!

Well, maybe not awesome, but I am loving it.
Not a fan of the new BR. The old BR was definitely OP but this one doesnt encourage skill as it should. I like the drop in aim assist but maybe make it projectile but keep the tight spread.

On a more general note - please keep the standard pistol for competitive play.
cant wait until they switch pistol for AR, When will they change the loadout weapons?
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cant wait until they switch pistol for AR, When will they change the loadout weapons?
The test lasts until October 2nd. We don't know if they are changing loadouts during the test. I'm going to guess that they are not.
the ablity tracker is not good in my opinion it cuts away too much awareness from any engage it promote a more elusive approach which don't fit with the "arena side" of the game
i dont now why people keep saying the GF mag is useless its fire rate is twice as fast as the normal mag and it only requires one additional shot.(head shot required)
im winning close quarter fights against the BR all the time.
Dont now how yall are trying use the new weapons...
I played 4 games last night, and got my hands on some of the items subject to tuning. Here are my thoughts, mostly on items I used/saw in action yesterday.

Battle Rifle: Overall, some good, some bad. I see what 343 is trying to do by toning down the BR at long range, but nerfing the weapon in the way they did and making it a starting weapon, in my opinion, is not the best way to go about it. I believe this could be better addressed by simply keeping the Magnum/AR starts and limiting the number of BRs on maps, especially small maps, replacing the old ones with say... tactical magnums (or something along those lines). A change like this also has unintended consequences, like the Light Rifle now becoming extremely valuable.
  • Short Range: I lost a couple gunfights (to the Gunfighter Magnum) in close-quarters I normally would have won. I think this is fair, as the BR should excel at mid and long ranges, and not be a pocket shotgun.
  • Mid Range: The bounce/spread becomes somewhat evident. This is not a good change, in my mind, but I can live with it at mid range. It feels too jumpy. I had a few enemies that required additional bursts that normally would have been dead already. If I put the crosshairs on a bad guy and pull the trigger, I should be rewarded. The more I think about this, the more this seems like a poor change. It doesn't break the weapon, but it takes the BR from the precision weapon category to something less desirable. I believe I see what 343 is trying to accomplish, but I really don't think this is the ideal way to go about it.
  • Long Range: The bounce/spread becomes excessive. If the community feels the BR needs to be toned down at long range, this is not the ideal way to go about it, in my mind. This is the standard issue rifle of a 26th century military force with faster-than-light travel being used by genetically superior super-soldiers in hella badass armor suits. I think a weapon like this would have more manageable recoil, and certainly when in the hands of a Spartan. The BR is a "precision weapon," it should perform as such, not bounce around. Keep in mind that the BR is (probably) still going to be heavily used in Warzone and BTB, so it should be reasonably effective at long range. If range is a concern in Arena, which I understand, it can be removed from some maps.
DMR: I had limited use of the DMR, but I did seem to notice a change in short/close range engagements which I think is fair. I do not think the mid-range (say 30 - 100 meters) effectiveness reduction is fair. If a weapon can nail an enemy at 100+ meters, it should also be effective at 50 meters, and remain effective up until very close range combat.

Gunfighter Magnum: This is such a fun gun to use. "Gunfighter" is a very appropriate name, too. I found myself winning gunfights up close and personal when the bad guy had the BR out, and I found myself losing gunfights when the bad guy had his Gunfighter out and I had my BR. Which, from what I understand, is what 343 wants. Did not seem overly-effective at mid range.

Active Camo: I was on the giving and receiving end of kills with the camo last night. I did not see a massive difference in the current camo and it's tuned brother. The edges of camouflaged Spartans appear a bit smoother (maybe my eyes deceive me). Not sure if duration has changed. Either way, it does not appear overpowered, and walking normal speed breaking camo is excellent, especially with the new "Ability Tracker."

Energy Sword: I did not see or use this weapon, but I 100% support any nerfs to the energy sword. Spartan Abilities and the sword's current speed increase are a very overpowered combo.

Grenade Launcher: I was shot at a few times by the tuned Grenade Launcher last night, and a couple times I thought I was dead, I survived. The tuned version seems to not have the blast radius the weapon currently does? I don't have enough experience to have an informed opinion here.

Ability Tracker: 343, I love this change. It encourages players to be more aggressive in advancing on enemy positions while still having to play smart if they wish to avoid showing up on the tracker. It adds a great dynamic. Also, who doesn't love catching enemies unaware for the double back-smack?

BR/Gunfighter Start: As has been mentioned on this thread already and I mentioned earlier, I think the changes to the BR are inappropriate and not completely fair. So assuming the BR's final version is closer to the current version than the tuned version, I prefer the Magnum/AR start. I think giving everyone a BR off the rip would make the game a big BR orgy.

It's been enjoyable seeing what other players have to say. Also, 343, it may be helpful in the future to have multiple threads for updates, so one thread could be on the BR, another on Camo, etc. One last nugget. Frequently, developers will think a gun is "way too OP," then adjust it to the point that it becomes useless. While I don't think any gun here is useless, just be wary that the game has been out for a while, and besides the usual groaning about certain weapons, players generally do not seem dissatisfied with the sandbox as it stands, er, sits? Again, keep in mind how changes to weapons will affect the value of other short (Storm Rifle, Brute Plasma) and long (Light Rifle) range weapons. Looking forward to more games in this playlist.
Another thing to consider too would be how these radical changes are going to put off a lot of people and probably make them not want to play. A lot of people are more than likely just going to stop wanting to play it all together, and that's unhealthy. If anything we need more CONTENT. Content to make things fresher, to bring people back, even now the social playlists are very meager in offering. Sure, having less populated playlists might not be the best, but also... people probably aren't going to play if the content isn't there in the first place... And with changes like this? I'm pretty sure a few of my friends wouldn't want to continue playing... That's another thing to think about too.

I'd also like to add... the changes are probably going to be a wreck even more through warzone and BTB...
erickyboo wrote:
Another thing to consider too would be how these radical changes are going to put off a lot of people and probably make them not want to play. A lot of people are more than likely just going to stop wanting to play it all together, and that's unhealthy. If anything we need more CONTENT. Content to make things fresher, to bring people back, even now the social playlists are very meager in offering. Sure, having less populated playlists might not be the best, but also... people probably aren't going to play if the content isn't there in the first place... And with changes like this? I'm pretty sure a few of my friends wouldn't want to continue playing... That's another thing to think about too.
I agree more content would be nice, but we need changes for these weapons as well. I don't see how these are that drastic of a change to make players want to leave. Sure it changes things up a bit. We have to learn something new, but isn't that refreshing things a bit as well?
  1. BR starts just doesn't seem right on Arena maps. Magnum is appropriate choice in terms of range/accuracy. It's a fun change from time to time, but when its default it wears out it's welcome fairly quickly.
  2. BR - feels bizarre and very inconsistent! Even though my accuracy hasn't really gone down the entire experience with the new BR is slow, clunky and awkward. I'd often fire the "finishing" shot and begin to turn only to realize it didn't fully connect. It may be more balanced, but it definitely isn't more fun even after extensive usage. I call it the gambling gun now, due to the inconsistent feel.
  3. Gunfighter - The standard magnum is the crown jewel of H5 why are we replacing it with the gunfighter variant? The gunfighter is great at close range, but no longer makes the magnum a complete utility weapon which was the best part. I understand then you're required to use both magnum and BR, but the BR feels so awful and inconsistent I refuse. Just feel like we're fixing a part of the game that wasn't broken with piece of the puzzle. I don't know whose asking for the gunfighter magnum?
  4. Automatics - I like these changes. AR and SMG seem to work as you would expect now. They win at close range and don't do nearly as well beyond that. Perfect.
  5. Rail Gun - I wasn't crazy about the new timing, but was probably better than the get out of jail free card that it use to be. I'd prefer if the damage done at close ranges was greatly decreased making it very hard to kill at close ranges, but the timing stayed the same as previous.
  6. Motion Tracker - I prefer the updated motion tracker. No issues here.
  7. Sword - I'm fine with the sword update. I was still able to get the close range kills, but couldn't run violently all over the map killing everyone with it.
  8. DMR - never got my hands on one to test.. yet!
I think it's really awesome that 2 years later 343 is still tuning the game and providing some upcoming updates to help keep a fresh experience, but in general after lots of matches with the new weapon tuning on a couple different accounts I was having significantly less fun. Even with the changes I don't feel like the outcomes of the match changed. I performed at my normal rate, won/lost about the same rate. I just had less fun while doing it.
NightClerk wrote:
I played 4 games last night, and got my hands on some of the items subject to tuning. Here are my thoughts, mostly on items I used/saw in action yesterday.
Battle Rifle:Overall, some good, some bad. I see what 343 is trying to do by toning down the BR at long range, but nerfing the weapon in the way they did and making it a starting weapon, in my opinion, is not the best way to go about it. I believe this could be better addressed by simply keeping the Magnum/AR starts and limiting the number of BRs on maps, especially small maps, replacing the old ones with say... tactical magnums (or something along those lines). A change like this also has unintended consequences, like the Light Rifle now becoming extremely valuable.
  • Short Range: I lost a couple gunfights (to the Gunfighter Magnum) in close-quarters I normally would have won. I think this is fair, as the BR should excel at mid and long ranges, and not be a pocket shotgun.
  • Mid Range: The bounce/spread becomes somewhat evident. This is not a good change, in my mind, but I can live with it at mid range. It feels too jumpy. I had a few enemies that required additional bursts that normally would have been dead already. If I put the crosshairs on a bad guy and pull the trigger, I should be rewarded. The more I think about this, the more this seems like a poor change. It doesn't break the weapon, but it takes the BR from the precision weapon category to something less desirable. I believe I see what 343 is trying to accomplish, but I really don't think this is the ideal way to go about it.
  • Long Range: The bounce/spread becomes excessive. If the community feels the BR needs to be toned down at long range, this is not the ideal way to go about it, in my mind. This is the standard issue rifle of a 26th century military force with faster-than-light travel being used by genetically superior super-soldiers in hella badass armor suits. I think a weapon like this would have more manageable recoil, and certainly when in the hands of a Spartan. The BR is a "precision weapon," it should perform as such, not bounce around. Keep in mind that the BR is (probably) still going to be heavily used in Warzone and BTB, so it should be reasonably effective at long range. If range is a concern in Arena, which I understand, it can be removed from some maps.
DMR: I had limited use of the DMR, but I did seem to notice a change in short/close range engagements which I think is fair. I do not think the mid-range (say 30 - 100 meters) effectiveness reduction is fair. If a weapon can nail an enemy at 100+ meters, it should also be effective at 50 meters, and remain effective up until very close range combat.

Gunfighter Magnum: This is such a fun gun to use. "Gunfighter" is a very appropriate name, too. I found myself winning gunfights up close and personal when the bad guy had the BR out, and I found myself losing gunfights when the bad guy had his Gunfighter out and I had my BR. Which, from what I understand, is what 343 wants. Did not seem overly-effective at mid range.
Active Camo: I was on the giving and receiving end of kills with the camo last night. I did not see a massive difference in the current camo and it's tuned brother. The edges of camouflaged Spartans appear a bit smoother (maybe my eyes deceive me). Not sure if duration has changed. Either way, it does not appear overpowered, and walking normal speed breaking camo is excellent, especially with the new "Ability Tracker."

Energy Sword: I did not see or use this weapon, but I 100% support any nerfs to the energy sword. Spartan Abilities and the sword's current speed increase are a very overpowered combo.
Grenade Launcher: I was shot at a few times by the tuned Grenade Launcher last night, and a couple times I thought I was dead, I survived. The tuned version seems to not have the blast radius the weapon currently does? I don't have enough experience to have an informed opinion here.Ability Tracker: 343, I love this change. It encourages players to be more aggressive in advancing on enemy positions while still having to play smart if they wish to avoid showing up on the tracker. It adds a great dynamic. Also, who doesn't love catching enemies unaware for the double back-smack?
BR/Gunfighter Start: As has been mentioned on this thread already and I mentioned earlier, I think the changes to the BR are inappropriate and not completely fair. So assuming the BR's final version is closer to the current version than the tuned version, I prefer the Magnum/AR start. I think giving everyone a BR off the rip would make the game a big BR orgy.
It's been enjoyable seeing what other players have to say. Also, 343, it may be helpful in the future to have multiple threads for updates, so one thread could be on the BR, another on Camo, etc. One last nugget. Frequently, developers will think a gun is "way too OP," then adjust it to the point that it becomes useless. While I don't think any gun here is useless, just be wary that the game has been out for a while, and besides the usual groaning about certain weapons, players generally do not seem dissatisfied with the sandbox as it stands, er, sits? Again, keep in mind how changes to weapons will affect the value of other short (Storm Rifle, Brute Plasma) and long (Light Rifle) range weapons. Looking forward to more games in this playlist.
All of this is great, one thing im wondering would be, what exactly is 343's definitions of "short,mid,long" ranges...

Maybe we could give better feedback if we actually knew the mathmatical definitions. I feel the community could more accurately assess and provide evidence of a weapon that is either on par or off with its intended function.

You mentioned the dmr remaining effective at short range, i completely agree. Thinking about reality for a moment if a weapon is for example powerful enough to kill you at 100 meters then surely it should kill you at closer range and have more damage because of it. I dont know if its possible to tweak the magnetism to require more skill to use the weapon outside its intended function? I feel depending on the weapon you use and its intended function magetism and damage should be at its maximum for its intended range. Unless your talking about a ranged weapon.

At the moment its truly anyones guess exactly what 343 really means or is trying to accomplish. But i know when developers mess around with matchmaking and weapons that upset too much this late in a games life, i can think of no other games that benefited from doing so or survived longer.

It seems to me that with each change 343 has made, had consistantly reduced the value i once had for this game...intentionality or not...
My question for 343 would be amist all these changes, what algorithm is used to measure fun?
Current changes in 12 man wz and matchmaking make it impossible for my 12 man or 8 man squad to either play together or load into a match with a combined mmr equalivent to only matching the top 3% of players in the World or no match at all...
When or at what point does this game benefit the experienced players also?

What could possibly be the point? Making it easier for a new player to kill another with 2 years experience? Im not interested in something so cheap and outside the lines of what this game should be or always has been...
I agree with everything youve said tho...
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