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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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Ok i try say this as nicely as I can.
This recent update was the ABSOLUTE WORST update in Halo History. (:
JOS5893 wrote:
like how the Railgun takes forever to shoot.
Ah yes, the railgun.
I always felt the basic version took forever to shoot, which is why I never use it.
I have always been horrible with the railgun. However, I have played probably over a hundred hours of Halo, and can count the amount of shots that have missed me on one hand. There was definitely a skill gap, but the players that could use it were just unkillable from any range. I think these changes will give players a chance to even the playing field.
Last I checked, using small arms wasn't a viable strategy against vehicles, ain't there some sort of twin tubed death dealer meant to take out vehicles or some sort of alien grenade throwing thingy meant for taking these out? What I'm saying is, unless it's a Kinetic Bolts or Knight Blade variant, why are you using a BR, a AR, a SMG or a DMR against a Banshee when there's rocket launchers, plasma casters, grenade launchers and similar weapons meant for dealing with them?
We aren't referring to noob Banshee pilots although they do apply. We're talking about the ones that spam flips and get 30+ kills with it per spawn making all those lock on weapons you listed ineffective and the grenade launcher is not in any BTB Banshee maps.
erickyboo wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
erickyboo wrote:
Another thing to consider too would be how these radical changes are going to put off a lot of people and probably make them not want to play. A lot of people are more than likely just going to stop wanting to play it all together, and that's unhealthy. If anything we need more CONTENT. Content to make things fresher, to bring people back, even now the social playlists are very meager in offering. Sure, having less populated playlists might not be the best, but also... people probably aren't going to play if the content isn't there in the first place... And with changes like this? I'm pretty sure a few of my friends wouldn't want to continue playing... That's another thing to think about too.
I agree more content would be nice, but we need changes for these weapons as well. I don't see how these are that drastic of a change to make players want to leave. Sure it changes things up a bit. We have to learn something new, but isn't that refreshing things a bit as well?
These are drastic changes, the battle rifle behaves sooo much differently, kind of like the halo 3 battle rifle, and that's not a compliment. That's a bad thing. The weapon sandbox gets torn up. Like, halo 5 weapons feel precise, exact, correct, for the most part. This just throws that out, and yes there's people who don't like this at all who wouldn't want to play this anymore. They might not voice themselves on the forums, but they are there. Not all changes are good. These changes just make the game feel so unfun... And it will for many people.
you dont understand. having op weapons makes the game boring. it means that by slightly being more coordinated than the other team, you gain a HUGE advantage as you will quickly wipe the floor with players. this made halo stagnant and very one dimensional and perhaps the main reason people stopped playing halo. i feel now kills take more effort, you have to get up close and personal, it gives AR and smg a chance to shine even though theyve been nerfed. And the radar change is the best change for me. it punishes people who rush, and rewards the patient players. In the end halo becomes a slower game, except when playing small open maps like truth.
So just used the railgun, it takes a little longer to shoot but it's not terrible specially if you time it to let go of the trigger when it's ready to shoot and not just wait a second or two for it to discharge on its own. Also don't know if I'm getting used to it or if the BR was changed at all since I played a couple of hours ago but it's feels better than the last couple of days, and more a long what it should be if they did the change if not then I'm adjusting
My thoughts, including observations (so far) on some of the re-tuned weapons.

A design philosophy that I believe ought to be inherent to the game's sandbox is that weapons should NOT be designed with artificial bullet spread, but should adopt any potential random variance deemed necessary into the recoil pattern instead. Bullets should travel right down the center of a player's reticle each and every shot unless bullet magnetism alters its flight path toward an opponent. It’s borderline idiotic in a game more or less built around the skill-curve of its precision gun-play in the hands of super soldiers (aka Spartans) to include artificial bullet spread and especially so if it's in effect on the FIRST bullets being fired.

Recoil is controlled by a weapon's assigned view-kick and center-speed which means that every time the trigger is pulled the weapon's reticle reacts by moving in a direction and then returning to that original position. 343i could choose to design a weapon's view-kick as either a fixed pattern or they could choose to introduce some random variance to it. The recoil effect doesn't necessarily mean elements of randomness would automatically be removed though it certainly posses that potential and it would at least give more control over that randomness to the player by pacing their shots.

The center-speed is how quickly a weapon's reticle is able to reset itself back to its original position after firing a shot off. If the center-speed isn't quick enough to always fully reset the reticle between shots (given the weapon's fire-rate) then the result (on a spray chart) will be bullet spread; though, the difference between this recoil effect and an artificial bullet spread effect is that each bullet is actually traveling where the weapon's reticle indicates it should travel (minus magnetism effects) verses randomly traveling in directions within a cylindrical cone outward from the reticle. A fixed recoil pattern that requires slight pacing to remain perfectly accurate instead of drifting is an ideal method to curb a weapon's effectiveness and do so without compromising the skill aspect; though, the high RoF weapons with minimal view-kick numbers (Carbine & GF Mag) may need to include a minor amount of scale-able random variance within their recoil pattern in order to provide necessary balance as well as to reflect some authenticity.

Weapons that fire multiple bullets within a trigger pull such as the 3-round burst weapons and automatics should be subjected to random variance to any bullet fired AFTER the first within a trigger pull, but the amount and type of spread must be handled extremely carefully. As indicated, the first bullet fired (per trigger pull) needs to travel exactly to where the player aimed his or her reticle unless magnetism alters its course, but afterwards these weapons should suffer some consistency and reliability issues as that's part of the trade-off for being able to fire multiple bullets under one trigger pull. Not only does this fit the authenticity of firing these types of weapons in real life, but it would help cement their roles within the game too.

Re-tuned Halo 5 Battle Rifle – (I’ve had sufficient in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I'm pretty sure that the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance of the BR has remained approximately the same (36.57 meters in game).
  • I wonder if the ADS or Linked RRR distance may have been dropped, but I'm unable to confirm this as of yet. The previous distance was around 76.44 meters.
  • I think the vertical view-kick (aka recoil) and center-speed effects are approximately the same; though, it seems they've either introduced a static artificer spread factor to the weapon or increased it to make it actually apparent; though, the loosening of the cyclic burst may also just be making it more apparent if there was some existing previously.
  • I feel as if the length of time between each bullet being fired within the 3-round burst has been increased; I'm not sure what affect this has had on the length of time between trigger pulls, but I wouldn't be surprised if in total the weapon was adjusted to be somewhat more in line with the Rate of Fire (RoF) and perfect TTK of the Halo 2 Battle Rifle which was slower.
  • It seems like the reload speed and draw time have remained the same.
  • It doesn't appear like anything has changed from the weapon requiring 10 or 11 bullets to break shields and 16 or 17-18 bullets to the body for the kill.
  • Hard to tell if the bullet magnetism and aim assist are the same. I think they might have increased the bullet magnetism by just a tiny, TINY bit while toning down the aim assist.
  • Hard to tell how much crouching reduces not only the recoil, but also the spread effect. It’s probably the best tactic to use in trying to combat a Sniper Rifle at a distance beyond it’s RRR, but doing so makes you literally a sitting duck.
  • I haven't been able to confirm whether the 6 bullets + melee is still a kill or if it's been altered to 7 bullets + melee.
Perhaps some changes were necessary to make this a decent Arena load-out option; for instance, the small amount of additional spread now affecting the Battle Rifle makes it less dependable at landing shots beyond its RRR and that isn't necessarily a bad thing because (1) it feels more authentic to a real-world burst firearm, and (2) it prevents the BR from excelling beyond its intended role as a fairly versatile mid-range weapon that can reach out to mid-long distances when scoped. The variable spread paired to the weapon's recoil more or less restricts the weapon's usefulness to within its RRR distances. The main concerns I have with it now relates to what its perfect TTK is, its RRR distances and bullet magnetism.

I have no problem with the spacing of the bullets out within the cyclic burst, but I think the gun’s perfect TTK should stay relatively similar or at least quicker than the Halo 2 BR. The pre-tuned Halo 5 BR paled in comparison to the Halo 2 BR in regards to bullet magnetism, reload time, draw time, and recoil; the only advantage it has/had over the Halo 2 BR was its slightly quicker RoF so I hope that slight advantage still remains. I thought the ADS or Linked RRR was more or less fine pre-tune since it was greater than the 2x Scoped Pistols (Tactical and CE), comparable to the LR, though noticeably less than the pre-tuned Carbine (which was around 91.41 meters) and pre-tuned DMR (which was around 110.94 meters); I hope and assume that is still the case. Overall, I think Halo should ditch the artificial bullet spread and build their weapons around the recoil effect. The Halo 5 BR should include a minor amount of random variance within it's recoil pattern, but by designing the random variance into the recoil the FIRST bullet will never be subjected to it.

(continued)
Re-tuned Gunfighter Magnum – (I’ve had sufficient in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I'm not sure if the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance was altered or not. It previously was approximately 29.24 meters.
  • Also, I can't tell if the ADS or Linked RRR distance altered. It previously was around 37.96 meters.
  • They've either added a ton of vertical view-kick or significantly reduced the weapon's center-speed or they’ve put in a good measure of both since there’s a fairly massive recoil effect now.
  • A spread factor was introduced. The artificial spread zone no longer fully resets between shots at the weapon's maximum fire rate which means that if you’re firing too fast you’re dealing with an increase of shots firing in random directions. The spread zone looks fairly sizeable too for a precision weapon.
  • I’m pretty certain the RoF is the same, but the significant recoil and artificial spread effects destroy all semblance of any effective use of that RoF at distances beyond extreme CQC.
  • It seems like the reload speed and draw time have remained the same.
  • I think the weapon still requires a minimum of 6 shots to kill and a max of 9 (no headshot), but maybe it was tweaked to 7 and 10. Having difficulty getting confirmation because of how -Yoink- the weapon is in its retuned state.
  • It’s been impossible to tell if the bullet magnetism and aim assist are the same. I think maybe they are.
  • I unfortunately haven’t thought about seeing if crouching reduces any of that massive recoil and spread. I imagine it helps and perhaps quite a bit.
  • I still don’t know if the pre-update GFM was 3-body shots + melee for a kill or if it was 4-body shots. I haven’t been able to reliably test this recently and never really attempted to previously, so perhaps someone else can let me know.
This weapon was clearly demoted to that of being a near throw-away secondary piece of equipment meant for CQC clean-up shots on wounded enemies. Personally, I think this was a horrible decision for the gun and the game’s sandbox as there didn’t need to be a substandard weapon with no practical stand-alone use thus regulating it to being an emergency back-up option only. Please, fix this weapon back to being somewhat respectable as a stand-alone choice. It may have required a nerf to tailor it into a more specific range role, but you’ve gone way, WAY too far in trying to pigeon hole it into a BS emergency secondary role only.

Generally speaking, and as I mentioned in my earlier post, I’m not a fan of artificial spread associated with single bullet precision weapons, but I can see how some spread variance might be practical to have in a high RoF weapon that doesn't have much recoil. Please tone the recoil effect way down because the up-ward drift is too great; reduce the artificial spread too. You only need a little up-ward drift to force players to be more practical and patient with shots if they want to try using the weapon outside of CQC.

This is the weapon I want to see revert more or less back towards how it was pre-tune. At least more than any of the other weapons since these changes have absolutely ruined its overall stand-alone usefulness. Just reduce aspects of the re-tune in order to bring it the balance it needed. In all honesty, I’d much rather see the Standard Pistol equipped as the secondary weapon to the BR so that there could be data on those types of encounters (Standard Pistol vs new BR) and so we players can experience that particular match-up in-game.

Re-tuned Carbine – (I’ve had decent in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I don’t think the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance was altered. It was approximately 36.56 meters previously (same as BR, Standard Pistol, Tactical Pistol, Whispered Truth, and CE Pistol).
  • The ADS RRR distance altered. It previously was 91.41 meters. I don’t know how far they’ve actually reduced it down to, but I feel like it’s now closer to that of the LR (~76.20) and pre-tuned BR (~76.44).
  • Nothing appears to have changed regarding recoil. The minor view-kick still fully re-centers before the next shot.
  • The artificial spread factor which I believe to be a static zone appears to have been increased noticeably in this re-tuned version.
  • The RoF appears to be the same, so the perfect TTK should be the same too.
  • It seems like the reload speed and draw time have remained the same.
  • The weapon appears to still require a minimum of 7 shots to kill and a max of 10 (no headshot).
  • I can’t tell if bullet magnetism and aim assist are the same, but I think they are.
The fix for this weapon seemed pretty straight forward which was to reduce its ADS or Linked RRR – nothing else really needed to change. An interesting change to pair with the ADS or Linked RRR range reduction may have been to switch the static spread zone incorporated into the weapon over to an expandable one (aka bloom) that could grow to the size of the static one (which was fairly small, but now is much greater) when fired quickly, but if fired slowly enough the weapon could be fired without suffering any random spread.

Re-tuned Designated Marksman Rifle – (I’ve had minor amounts of in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I don’t know if the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance was altered. It was approximately 39.07 meters previously, but I wonder if they reduced it to match that of the majority of Pistols, BR, and Carbine.
  • I don’t think the ADS or Linked RRR distance altered. It previously was 110.94 meters and I can’t imagine why they’d change that.
  • Nothing appears to have changed regarding recoil. The minor view-kick still fully re-centers before the next shot.
  • Despite there being a visual indication of an artificial bullet spread the weapon's bloom has always seemed to fully reset before the next shot could be taken which I’ve always taken to mean that there isn’t really a note-able spread effect. I don’t see any change regarding this.
  • The RoF appears to be the same, so the perfect TTK should still be the same too.
  • It seems like the reload speed and draw time have remained the same.
  • The weapon still requires a minimum of 5 shots to kill, but I don’t know if the max is still 6 (no headshot) or if it was increased to 7 (no headshot). I wasn’t able to confirm.
  • I had difficulty in telling whether bullet magnetism and aim assist were the same, but it felt like it got reduced.
  • I wasn’t able to confirm if whether the weapon changed from two shots + melee to three shots + melee for a kill. I suspect that it did.
The fix for this weapon also seemed pretty straight forward which was to modify the two shot + melee to a three shot + melee and perhaps to increase its body shots (max limit) to earn a kill by one (6 to 7) as that would ensure it only excelled as a long-distance weapon but could still hold its’ own against most other precision weapons. Overall, I’m quite pleased that the change hasn’t appeared to alter anything else related to this weapon.

(...to be continued once I get more experience with the other re-tuned weapons)
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
nerf the banshee please
Or just take it out altogether. ;)
The Banshee will be a colossal issue if these new tunes spread to BTB. Good Banshee pilots are already finishing games with 50+K and 0 deaths. When you are shooting tic tacs out of your BR from long range imagine the next level planet destroying upgrade it will receive. The AR was nicely effective if the Banshee flew low but it's range effectiveness is nerfed too. The WASP will also be a larger scale issue than it already is. At least before you could team shot the WASP fairly effectively but now that would be massively upgraded too.
Yeah this is one of the biggest implications, both for BTB and WZ. Using an AR or SMG to weaken close-range banshees was the most effective way to take them out. The BR was okay but not amazing.

Regardless of how you think they affect arena games, the range nerfs to the AR, SMG, and BR will make taking out flying vehicles a nightmare...
Last I checked, using small arms wasn't a viable strategy against vehicles, ain't there some sort of twin tubed death dealer meant to take out vehicles or some sort of alien grenade throwing thingy meant for taking these out? What I'm saying is, unless it's a Kinetic Bolts or Knight Blade variant, why are you using a BR, a AR, a SMG or a DMR against a Banshee when there's rocket launchers, plasma casters, grenade launchers and similar weapons meant for dealing with them?
There are whole other threads about this. here's one. And here's another. Lock-on weapons, or long-charge lasers (like the base spartan laser) aren't very good at taking down flipping banshees. teamshot, especially with autos at close or medium range, are VERY effective.
Also whatever changes they bring the BR, when they decided to employ it through out the whole game I hope they also bring those changes to the Halo 2BR, as it already has no recoil, quick switching, and a larger RRR that allows for more bullet magnetism.
Apoll0 wrote:
Skippy575 wrote:
Martin8zz wrote:
Can you guys focus on things that actually matter like maps that allow for spawn killing instead of changing how a gun shoots 2 years from launch... If people didn't like the guns they would have quit by now
Maybe you haven't noticed but the biggest portion of Halos population has quit because they didn't like how it currently functions.
Sounds like another portion might quit with these changes
You can bet your service record on that, especially with high competition with Destiny 2 and other renown titles out now
Holy COW people

R
E
L
A
X

This is the test to get stats and feedback from players. not the final build. Just give your feedback. Threatening to quit isn't going to help anything and it just makes you look petty.
Community isn't going to care if its a test or not sadly, when you put it in the retrospect of an average Halo player, or gamer that happens to play Halo 5 as part of the Xbox Game Pass one playlist, no just the thought of changing the sandbox because they feel like it is enough to switch disc in my opinion. I think it's valid for people to quit Halo but then again for those that do they probably never liked the game in the first place.
eLantern wrote:
My thoughts, including observations (so far) on some of the re-tuned weapons.

A philosophy that I believe ought to be inherent to the game's sandbox is that pretty much all of the single bullet precision weapons should NOT involve random spread affecting the trajectory of the bullets fire as an attempt to limit the weapon’s effectiveness. For the most part, these bullets should travel right down the center of a player's reticle each and every shot unless the RRR's bullet magnetism altered its flight path toward an opponent. Most of these types of weapons include a visually expanding (aka bloom) spread zone which is fine if it fully reduces to nothing between shots, so that random spread isn’t actually occurring. Some seem to involve a static spread zone, but it tends to be pretty minor. Overall, there really shouldn’t be much or any spread effect on single bullet precision weapons; it’s borderline idiotic in a game more or less built around the skill-curve of its precision gun-play in the hands of super soldiers (aka Spartans).

Now, I suppose an argument could be made for a very, VERY small amount of spread to become possible in a single bullet precision weapon that featured an abnormally high RoF and if it featured a recoil effect that was minimal to none (eg. Carbine and pre-updated Gunfighter), but the spread zone should remain small enough so that it never impacted the weapon's consistency within its RRR distances. Generally speaking, the best method to address the level of consistency and accuracy of a single bullet precision weapon at mid-range and longer distances is by stressing a slight need to pace shots by modifying the weapon's vertical view-kick and center-speed (aka the vertical recoil effect) to require a small measure of patience between trigger pulls in order to prevent the weapon’s reticle from ever-so-slightly drifting up-ward. This is a better method because it prevents bullets from traveling in directions other than where the weapon’s reticle indicated they would travel.

Weapons that fire multiple bullets within a trigger pull such as the 3-round burst weapons and all automatics should exhibit some spread and recoil to any bullet fired AFTER the first within a trigger pull, but the amount and type of spread must be handled extremely carefully. As indicated, the first bullet fired (per trigger pull) needs to travel exactly to where the player aimed his or her reticle unless magnetism alters its course; however, after the first bullet a spread effect, be that of an expanding zone (automatics) or a static zone (3-round burst), should cause the weapon to suffer some consistency and reliability issues. Not only would this fit the authenticity of firing these types of weapons in real life, but it should help in cementing their roles within the game too.

Re-tuned Halo 5 Battle Rifle – (I’ve had sufficient in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I'm pretty sure that the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance of the BR has remained approximately the same (36.57 meters in game).
  • I wonder if the ADS or Linked RRR distance may have been dropped, but I'm unable to confirm this as of yet. The previous distance was around 76.44 meters.
  • I think the vertical view-kick (aka recoil) and center-speed effects are approximately the same; though, it seems they've either introduced a static spread factor to the weapon or increased it to make it more apparent; though, the loosening of the cyclic burst may also just be making it more apparent.
  • I feel as if the length of time between each bullet being fired within the 3-round burst has been increased; I'm not sure what affect this has had on the length of time between trigger pulls, but I wouldn't be surprised if in total the weapon was adjusted it to be somewhat more in line with the Rate of Fire (RoF) and perfect TTK of the Halo 2 Battle Rifle which was slower.
  • It seems like the reload speed and draw time have remained the same.
  • It doesn't appear like anything has changed from the weapon requiring 10 or 11 bullets to break shields and 16 or 16-18 bullets to the body for the kill.
  • Hard to tell if the bullet magnetism and aim assist are the same. I think they might have increased the bullet magnetism by just a tiny, TINY bit.
  • Hard to tell how much crouching reduces not only the recoil, but also the spread effect. It’s probably the best tactic to use in trying to combat a Sniper Rifle at a distance beyond it’s RRR, but doing so makes you literally a sitting duck.
  • I haven't been able to confirm whether the 2-body shots + melee is still a kill or if it's been altered to 3-body shots + melee.
Changes were necessary to make this a decent Arena load-out option; for instance, the small amount of spread now affecting the Battle Rifle makes it less dependable at landing shots beyond its RRR and that isn't a bad thing because (1) it feels more authentic to a real-world burst firearm, and (2) it prevents the BR from excelling beyond its intended role as a fairly versatile mid-range weapon that can reach out to mid-long distances when scoped. The minor amount of spread and recoil ensures that the weapon works more or less as intended within its RRR distances, but appropriately lessens its effectiveness beyond those ranges too. The only concerns I have with it now relates to what its perfect TTK is, its RRR distances and bullet magnetism, plus whether it's a 3-shot + melee or 2-shot + melee for a kill.

I have no problem with the spacing of the bullets out within the cyclic burst, but I think the gun’s perfect TTK should stay relatively similar or at least quicker than the Halo 2 BR. The pre-tuned Halo 5 BR paled in comparison to the Halo 2 BR in regards to bullet magnetism (or it use to), reload time, draw time, and recoil; the only advantage it has/had over the Halo 2 BR was its slightly quicker RoF so I hope that slight advantage still remains. I thought the ADS or Linked RRR was more or less fine pre-tune since it was greater than the 2x Scoped Pistols (Tactical and CE), comparable to the LR, though noticeably less than the pre-tuned Carbine (which was around 91.41 meters) and pre-tuned DMR (which was around 110.94 meters); I hope and assume that is still the case. I think making the weapon require 7 bullets to hit (three trigger pulls) before a melee can kill an opponent increases the lethality and effective role of many CQC weapons and ensures that the BR is more or less limited to its designated mid-range role, so there's good reason to give consideration to that particular change if it hasn’t already been made. Overall, I’m mostly liking what they’ve done to balance this weapon and I think it could be a solid starting loadout choice, but I hope it has been able to maintain an ADS or Linked RRR that's approximate to the LR and newly tuned Carbine, greater than the Scoped Pistols, and less than the DMR; plus, takes 7 bullets to the body before a melee can kill and retains a faster perfect TTK than the Halo 2 BR’s perfect TTK.

(continued)
I just want to denote in this thread that this is the kind of material that should be posted in a feedback thread, not 353i sux or imma quit geyhlo

Hell, this post should be its own thread before it gets over saturated in needless information.
eLantern wrote:
Re-tuned Halo 5 Battle Rifle – (I’ve had sufficient in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I'm pretty sure that the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance of the BR has remained approximately the same (36.57 meters in game).
  • I wonder if the ADS or Linked RRR distance may have been dropped, but I'm unable to confirm this as of yet. The previous distance was around 76.44 meters.
  • I haven't been able to confirm whether the 2-body shots + melee is still a kill or if it's been altered to 3-body shots + melee.
It feels to me like the hipfire RRR of the new BR is noticably shorter than the original BR. The flagnum feels like it has longer hipfire RRR than the normal BR. But i can't confirm without custom game option.

The new BR ADS RRR is almost certainly substantially shorter than the original BR. Again I can't confirm, but it feels that way to me.

I can confirm that 2 body shots + melee does kill, IF all 6 shots connect. BUT it's harder to hit all 6 with the reduced bullet magnetism.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Yeah, I didn't even think of how ineffective the autos will be now against flying vehicles due to the limited range and bloom. We still have the unnerfed suppressor, but I don't think it's on a couple of the maps with Banshees in BTB.
Well the suppressor is a lock-on weapon i think, so not sure it will work well against flipping banshees, and it definitely won't work outside it's RRR, whereas the AR and SMG will. Hitscan weapons are better for dealing with the banshee flip. Also, the AR and SMG are loadouts you can get at L1 and L4 in WZ, wheras the suppressor requires REQ energy. So it's really not a viable replacement for the anti-vehicle power of the loadout autos.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
Re-tuned Halo 5 Battle Rifle – (I’ve had sufficient in-game experience with this weapon)
  • I'm pretty sure that the hip-fire Red Reticle Range (RRR) distance of the BR has remained approximately the same (36.57 meters in game).
  • I wonder if the ADS or Linked RRR distance may have been dropped, but I'm unable to confirm this as of yet. The previous distance was around 76.44 meters.
  • I haven't been able to confirm whether the 2-body shots + melee is still a kill or if it's been altered to 3-body shots + melee.
It feels to me like the hipfire RRR of the new BR is noticably shorter than the original BR. The flagnum feels like it has longer hipfire RRR than the normal BR. But i can't confirm without custom game option.

The new BR ADS RRR is almost certainly substantially shorter than the original BR. Again I can't confirm, but it feels that way to me.

I can confirm that 2 body shots + melee does kill, IF all 6 shots connect. BUT it's harder to hit all 6 with the reduced bullet magnetism.
Yeah for me it seemed like more than half of all encounters required more than 2 body shots + melee to kill, but did notice it's possible if you perfectly connect on the first two. This kind of adds a cool layer to close range fights, but still really don't enjoy the new slower more clunky feel to the BR in general.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
The fact that so many people on here are complaining about not getting perfect kills now shows how much more skill that gun takes to use now. Like 50% of my BR kills were perfect before. Since then I've got like 2 total. This is a good thing. The BR before was WAYYYYYYY too easy to use. This new one works exactly how the weapon should work.
Not necessarily. The BR isn't 'harder' to use because it takes more skill to aim; it's harder to use because it's inconsistent. Random bullet spread can't be controlled by skilled players with careful aim. It's just random. If you aim perfectly you hit 4-shots _sometimes_.
I'd never argue that the previous BR was balanced properly. You're right that it was much too easy to use, but that is because of bullet magnetism and aim assist at too wide of range gamut. It would have been much better to dial both down and keep the accuracy of the weapon (which would have made it more difficult to find and track a target but still rewarded sill) than to add random spread.
Okay, here is my main question/concern I have been having since this test started. One thing I am proud of/curious about why is my accuracy staying about the same as before the test, and in some games better. I am a mid Plat player, basically middle of the road. You are an Onyx/Champ player, but if you looked at our stats for this playlis,t even if I have played more games than you, why is my accuracy better?

Something that I have discovered is that with the drawn out 1v1's I am actually relaxing a little more. It's like I know I can out shoot them, and even though they might have the drop on me I know I have a fighting chance to turn the tide and get a Reversal. I don't know what it means. I am just a lowly Platinum, but I am still enjoying this test.
Sure I play at a higher level, but I'm not going to patronize you. Could be a lot of reasons if it's arsenal-wide—how many autos we use or don't, and how the servers behave (not sure if you're east or west coast, but I live on both and every time I come west my KD and accuracy drop hugely). Also, the hitbox at the head is smaller than the torso ... so if you tend to aim midway up the target and I aim for the head, random spread could have a larger effect for me.

Simplest explanation is, my aim is worse than yours X ) Thankfully lots of different skills go into being good at this game, heheh.
Overall, I am getting good vibes from these changes. In summary, I like how the tweaks emphasize a longer kill time and a slower pace without sacrificing mobility, and I like how precision weapons have decreased utility at close ranges, allowing automatics to reclaim that niche. It feels less run-n'-gun and more calculated, and rewards defensive playstyles more than the current meta. I like the general direction this is going, but there are a few refinements that need to be made.

I really like the lowered rate of fire on the Battle Rifle. This is a welcome change for a few reasons. 1) The longer time between shots lowers the BR's ttk, which noticeably slows down the pace of the game and prevents players from spraying with it as a high accuracy/ranged Assault Rifle. 2) It punishes players for missing shots in 1v1 encounters and makes strafing a relevant skill in fights again. 3) It indirectly buffs automatic weapons by making it harder to compete with the likes of the AR and SMG inside these two's respective optimal ranges. That isn't to say the BR is defenseless in such circumstances, it just allows for substantially less error in close range fights with automatic guns.
However, I would suggest tightening the tweaked BR's bullet spread or at least making it more predictable because one or occasionally two rounds in the burst consistently fail to hit their mark at medium and farther ranges. This will make it more reliable in its intended role and help distinguish it from the H2 BR, which has a more cursive firing pattern.

The the adjusted Gunfighter Magnum fits this environment nicely, as it can keep up with automatic weapons at closer ranges where the BR now has less utility, but it is less effective at long ranges. I’ve also found that the high rate of fire is not as overpowered as I thought it’d be and the gun rewards paced shooting instead of cranking out rounds as fast as possible. The hair trigger just enables players to get the next bullet out of the barrel faster if they have their shot lined up properly. This is how the magnum should be. It really annoyed me that the vanilla “heavy” magnum was kind of a jack-of-all-trades that had utility from close ranges all the way up to medium-long ranges.

I also like the “ability tracker” radar better than the 18m motion tracker because it encourages players to actively practice situational awareness while also being an effective tool to track people who are recklessly using their spartan abilities. I’m happy to see it return and I suggest to either make this the new standard or bring back the old school 25m motion tracker.

The only change I don’t like is the Railgun nerf. Before, it was too powerful because it could be snap discharged early by releasing the trigger as soon as the half circle gauge underneath the reticle filled up. Now players have to wait for the round to discharge on its own, which prevents it from being used reactively, but also takes control away from the player. The tuned Railgun is cumbersome and slow, and tracking actively engaged enemies with it is a nightmare. I’ve had to completely relearn how to use it, and in order to get the most mileage from it I have to target enemies who are unaware of my presence. This might seem like common sense, but using the Railgun like this makes it redundant with the Hydra, which performs this function better. I suggest retaining the “Snap Discharge” function, but delaying how soon it can fire by making the semicircle gauge fill more slowly. This way, the shooter has more control over how they use the Railgun, making it more effective in toe-to-toe combat, while also fulfilling the stated goal of "[making] the weapon require a bit more deliberate, planned usage in battle."
most of the weapons that got changed like: the Br, magnum, etc feel clunky like the maps weren't made for them after nearly two years of perfect settings it should stay the same but i like the grenade launcher changes. to be fully honest the only gun that needs real change is the plasma turret a fun gun just a little weak. please don't actually make these changes
oh but you know what there trying to make it fire like the original halo 3 battle rifle, well i don't want that
my thoughts exactly it is clunky and does not fit the meta, maps, or the 2 year history.
BR:
Slower burst is awesome, feels a lot more like what the BR is meant to do and makes it so you have to keep your aimer over the target the whole time. Fantastic addition
The random spread is just absolutely awful though, I honestly don't know what you were thinking... "let's take the most hated part of Halo 3 and bring it back?"
If you really want to nerf the range then make the bullet magnetism drop off with range, linearly, you can't just brute-force it with randomness.

SMG:
Exactly what I predicted, range was never the issue and whatever you did has done nothing to fix it, not even a little.
The issue is pure damage output, not range. The range is only a result of the damage.
I'm not saying it needs a huge change, even just try nerfing the damage by like 15% to start and see how that goes.

Storm Rifle:
Even more OP now that everything is weaker. Same thing, try like a 15% overall damage nerf...
To maintain the niche, you could even make most of that nerf be targeted towards physical damage rather than shield.

I just don't understand how this wasn't included in the original fix.. it was already OP, but now you nerf everything else.
It's literally a full-on power weapon, I'd pick it over fuel rod any day.

AR:
I need more testing but I feel like you missed the point completely.

It only feels less effective if you're fully holding down the trigger, but that was never a problem to begin with.
The problem with AR is that short controlled bursts, together with heavy magnetism, crouch, ADS and headshot bonus, allow you to melt at extremely long ranges.
It's the combination of all 5 that makes it OP, changing the max bloom does nothing to change this.

Hopefully you guys will make it the secondary again so that we can get more time with it, but at this point, I feel you need to target either the bullet magnetism or the bloom-reset duration during burst fire. The full-spam bloom is completely irrelevant to what the AR's issue has ever been.

Grenade Launcher:
Very difficult to use, but feels rewarding when you get a good shot off.
I'll have to test a bit more to see exactly what side I'm leaning towards, but for now it feels ok as a start.

Gunfighter Magnum:
I think the old version would fit way better in the new sandbox.

Railgun:
Not sure how I feel about the charge time yet. It definitely makes it less effective close up but some people think it's too much... I'm not sure I agree, it might actually be ok. Will have to test more.
I still think there should be more splash damage in the direction of the shooter though -- like no vertical/horizontal splash damage change, only in the direction it was shot, so you can't just use it like a shotgun around corners.
The charge time doesn't really do anything to address that, since you can pre-charge it before someone comes around, and then get an easy up-close kill.
I feel like the BR needs to lower the recoil just a bit. The gunfighter magnum feels clunky the railgun is now beyond useless, the charge up cycle is way too long and the fact that you cannot hold it down severely handicaps it.
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