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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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We had a discussion on Reddit about comparing the two BR's that I think would be helpful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/703kg8/the_new_br_vs_the_old_br_out_with_the_old_in_with?sort=confidence
Personally I think it would be best to make the BR have no spread, and instead making the bullets fired projectiles rather than hitscan. This will reduce the weapons effectiveness at longer ranges while also making it consistent. You guys nailed the fire rate and the aiming of the new BR. Feels much nicer to use now. A moderately quick projectile like the CE pistol would be amazing.
Thanks for posting this. Could you post your proof that the BR has random spread. When I clicked that link there was no clip. I am assuming that was your proof.

Nevermind I figured it out. Hasn't the BR always had spread?
After putting my time into the game here are my thoughts:

With automatic weapons in general, is it just me or did you guys really scale back the accuracy buff for scoping in? Because if you did I think that's a good change, since it encourages more controlled fire to land more shots. I found myself having to either get closer to opponents and melt their face or hang back and let off 3 or 4 shots at a time even when I was zooming in, which is how I think automatics should have behaved in the first place.

In terms of precision weapons I've only had time to get a good impression of BR, it felt weird at first but the more I adjusted my strategy to it's slower burst ROF and new recoil pattern I was doing great with it. I noticed in close range 1 on 1 engagements, both the enemy was fighting and I were struggling to land our BR shots effectively. When I switched to the magnum, I could clean up more close range kills while the enemy team choked on their close range BR fights.

I see what you are doing here, the BR is being solidified as a mid-range weapon and is no longer as effective at closer ranges. This update really encourages swapping weapons depending on enemy range, and I think I like that.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
We had a discussion on Reddit about comparing the two BR's that I think would be helpful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/703kg8/the_new_br_vs_the_old_br_out_with_the_old_in_with?sort=confidence
Personally I think it would be best to make the BR have no spread, and instead making the bullets fired projectiles rather than hitscan. This will reduce the weapons effectiveness at longer ranges while also making it consistent. You guys nailed the fire rate and the aiming of the new BR. Feels much nicer to use now. A moderately quick projectile like the CE pistol would be amazing.
Thanks for posting this. Could you post your proof that the BR has random spread. When I clicked that link there was no clip. I am assuming that was your proof.

Nevermind I figured it out. Hasn't the BR always had spread?
Edited my post. Added a direct link to the proof for spread. I got you fam
I have to ask, why the heck is Regret CTF in this playlist ? Like of all the map and mode combos Regret CTF got put in. I'm sure there's some sort of big picture I'm not seeing but man..
The BR shouldn't have random spread each shot. Keep it consistent. If you want to reduce its effectiveness long range through a wider spread, don't make it random.

Reducing the guns range effectiveness over the medium range should be done with lessened Bullet magnetism and reduced auto-aim over the distance curve. That means that people who develop their aiming skill with practice will be given a higher skill gap as well as making it not too over powered against longer range weapons. I feel that the BR's effectiveness should feel a bit closer to who effective the standard pistol is.
Br is too inconsistent an bloom is just horrible on gunfighter but the new zoom is nice but still don't like the hcs settings an I'd prolly quit playing if this update changed all playlists aka I don't like it 343
So I just checked and I only have 2 br Perfect kills in the tuning test. I've played 45 games and only have 2 perfs.. I have hit plenty of 4 shots and even landed the final burst on someone's head. While in RRR, but then this randomly happens: Random perfect
After playing a game, which we were forced to fight 3v4, here is what I have to say.

The BR feels stiff and slow. It's shooting rate feels slowly than it usually was and it feels stiff to me when I use the weapon and look around. It actually makes it harder for me to aim. The same goes with the magnum.

For some reason, it felt like it took more bullets to kill someone than it normally would, and it felt like I was missing half the time cause it looked like it wasn't even connecting with the opponent.
The Br is extremely inconsistent and the magnum (if you're good at the game) is too OP now. I ran the flag with my magnum and people just couldn't kill me bc the Br shoots to slow and is very inconsistent as i said before.

The DMR feels great and gets the job done at long to mis range.

The smg on the other hand is pretty inconsistent aswell.

i think for the smg and for the br it is a 50/50 when it comes to dealing damage. Sometimes the smg is OP and sometimes you recieve hitmarkers but the enemy takes little damage.
Yes the magnum is too over powered now! I've been trying to post about this and that if it goes back to regular magnum start, no one would pick up any other precision weapons and it would be all magnums and/or AR all the time, other than pickup autos and power weapons. Also lightrifle OP now due to the lightrifle and the pistol being the only precision weapons not nerfed. This is a serious problem that i want people to post about. My whole point is MAGNUM AND LIGHTRIFLE IS OP NOW. If they nerfed those two, took spread off br, bloom and random muzzle climb off the gunfighter, we would be looking at a pretty good sandbox, one with alot less BULLET MAGNETISM. Help me spread the word about this point to 343 through this thread if you agree, I feel like not too many players have thought about this specific point but its a potential weapon balance disaster if we don't say something. So like i said, help me leave posts about this specific point if you agree so its more likely to get noticed and addressed.
I overall really like the feel of the BR and all of the other weapons that you have modified. I think that it is a great improvement to all of the weapons. Although I am just speaking for myself.
I played it once and I'm honestly not a fan of BR starts. It feels like the bursts are off timed and its hard to perfect. The game got me upset, I'm not going to lie. These "tunes" are disappointing and the game was better without it.
Does anyone know if they adjusted the grenade damage for frags and plasmas? I looked for that information but was unable to locate it.

Also, the BR is trash. If I knew how to link a file share video to this thread I would to prove a point.i can't so I will describe it. Go look at my recent videos. All I could visibly see was a guys head while he was maybe 10 feet away. In the video he was no shields. There BR bursts with three hit markers on each burst did not kill the guy. Nine bullets hits a guy in the head and he walked away. Please explain how, 343?
Batchford wrote:
Apoll0 wrote:
General thoughts. The Storm Rifle and Sniper are even more of a monster now. The GF Mag is useless at any kind of range the SR still outclasses every other close range weapon in a very easy to use package. Challenging a sniper at range is a dumber thing to do now than it was before. Getting a de-scope on a sniper so you can move has been a staple sniper counter-play in Halo forever and with the new BR and piss-easy sniper, that strategy is basically dead. Your spawn utility weapon needs to accomplish this at least at the limits of its range.

Here is my take on the BR:

Good:Toned down AA and bullet magnetism - Very happy with these changes. Gun was piss-easy before

Don't care:Recoil - A lot of complaining about this but the gun returns to center before you can fire again so the only compensation you need to make is to aim a little lower the farther out the target. The bigger issue with the recoil is how it screw with your line of sight.

Bad:Random spread - The spread is a fairly tight circle, tighter than H3, but its still random and -Yoinks!- you at longer ranges. wtf stop it. make it short and linear or get rid of it.
Fire rate - I can't tell if the base fire rate is slower or if its just the spacing between the 3 rounds of the burst (or both) but its definitely slow. I was an advocate for spacing out the 3 rounds a little more but keeping the total TTK the same, and this feels like total overkill.
Close Range - fighting up close with this weapon feels artificially difficult. Cant tell if its the aiming, the Aim Assist changes or a combination.
TLDR; The problem with the BR was that it would aim for you and bend bullets around corners. Those issues have been resolved, but then a bunch of other unnecessary -Yoink- was done on top of that. KISS.

SMG: I like the changes to this actually. It melts close range, but simply thrusting backwards takes you out of that range to get a kill with a more skillful weapon.
AR: This still feels like it can destroy too easily. a slow tap-fire (release every 4 or 5 bullets) keeps the spread under control and still extends the range significantly.
DMR: AA and Magnetism toned down so this sits in a good place now imo. My only complaint is that like the BR, this feels artificially difficult to aim with up close.
GF Mag: Still undecided. Can't tell if i'm not used to the fire rate or if getting headshots is (again) artificially difficult.

Hitboxes general: Either the hitboxes have been made tighter, or this is a consequence of the bullet magnetism reduction, but you actually have to aim for the head to get a headshot now, which is a welcome change!!! (except for the sniper of course)

I have not had enough reps with the other weapons to provide any kind of educated opinion.
My general sentiment is positive. The AA and magnetism reductions across the board are welcome but... if those don't get extended to at least the sniper, it will become even more of a monster than it already is. ALL close-range battles just feel awkward. Hard to pin down why.

Phase 3 of this needs to re-tweak the BR, and try default magnum and AR starts.

EDIT: One thing i do not understand.... why does it seem like the BR is the new weapon that everything else is getting balanced around?? The original magnum was probably the most well-conceived weapon in the game. Why are we not testing a slight tweaked version of that with all the other items being pick ups?

Hopefully the BR is the starting weapon because it is the most drastically changed weapon and you want to get as many reps as possible on it, not because its actually going to become the default start weapon.
This post is quite excellent and well written.

I think the mag on the BR is still a bit insane at times but a lot better than before that is for sure. I just wish it was the Magnum getting changes then the rest of the game being balanced around it, much like you said.
I would be happy if they would balance out the magnum in this update too so its not too over powered if they remain the starting weapon, although they already have low magnetism. SO THE MAGNUM, LIGHTRIFLE, BOTH SNIPERS, AND STORM RIFLE NEED TO BE NERFED AS WELL! As far as bullet magnetism goes for those 4 precision weapons and maybe accuracy or something for storm rifle? Idk. I encourage everyone that wants to see the game remain balanced against these weapons, to help me post about the now over powered nature of these 5 weapons that now outclass any of the updated weapons in most ways. In my opinion. 343 needs our feedback and ive found alot of people havent been talking about this specific point so im trying to spread the word.
A serious question for 343 responses only.

Is this retuning of weapons for the casual majority or the competitive minority?

If the answer is the majority then I will stop wasting my time playing this playlist and with leaving feedback.

Thank you for your time and consideration in answering this question.
Alright Phase 2 took me some time to get used to, but I've gathered my thoughts and here are my solutions to the weapons. Since you guys haven't released specific details on the weapons, I'm going to be assuming a lot of what you guys did and give suggestions on how I feel these weapons should be changed.

Assault Rifle- Seems like you guys increased the spread, reduced its aim assist and reduced the recoil. These changes can stay, its RRR (Red Reticle Range) should be 24m. which I believe the H5 AR is. However Smart Link kind of breaks this weapon's range and shouldn't be a thing on automatic weapons in future Halo games. Maybe have the hip fire range be 21m and Smart Link can bring it up to 24m. I'm not sure if you guys can do this, but it would help if you guys can decrease the Mag. capacity from 36 to 32. Lastly headshot bonuses on automatic weapons shouldn't be a thing, they should be removed from H5 and shouldn't be included in future Halo games.

Battle Rifle- Seems like you guys decreased its ROF (Rate of Fire) both overall and its burst, Increased its burst spread and increased its recoil even when using Smart Link. I think you guys should keep the slow burst ROF as I believe that's the main aspect of the weapon that's keeping it from killing players across the map. But its overall ROF needs to go back to the pacing of H5 because the tuned overall ROF players get away a bit too easily and gun fights last a bit too long. The spread of the weapon shouldn't be random, but instead should be a vertical spread. Since the BR has increased recoil and moves up with every pull of the trigger, the spread should follow it like a straight vertical line. kind of like what you guys did in H4. The recoil of the BR both from the hip and Smart Link can stay. Lastly reduce its range, which should be 33m from the hip, 66m Smart Link. Current H5 BR is 36m from the hip, 72m Smart Link.

Carbine- Seems like you guys reduced its range a bit and increased its aim assist a bit. These changes can stay, but the reticle size I believe should be increased. Make the reticle size like H3 or H4 to further decrease its range. I believe its range should be decreased to 30m from the hip, 60m Smart Link.

DMR- Seems like you guys reduced its hip fire RRR and reduced its aim assist. The aim assist reduction can kind of stay, maybe bring it back up a notch but its hip fire RRR should be 39m, 78m Smart Link. If you have the hip fire RRR too short then we have a similar situation to the H4 Light Rifle where using the scope is the only useful thing about it. Also make the DMR a 3 shot melee as it would help not make it too useful at close range.

Gunfighter Magnum- Seems like you guys increased the size of the inner reticle, increased its aim assist and gave it an extended Mag. These changes can stay, but I believe the inner reticle should be increased even further like in H3, Reach and H4 to further accomplish its close range roll. For future Halo games we need only 1 normal Magnum that can work as a secondary for both AR/Mag. starts for standard play and BR/Mag. starts for competitive play.

SMG- Seems like you guys increased its reticle size, spread and reduced its aim assist. These changes can stay, but like I said with the AR headshot bonuses shouldn't be on any automatic weapon and should be removed. Range should be 15m from the hip, 18m Smart Link. A recoil increase should also be considered, kind of like in H2 and H3. Also it should take more shots to kill then the AR considering it has a faster ROF then the AR. Currently in H5 both the AR and SMG are 15 shot kills to the body. The SMG should be a 21 shot kill while the AR should a 14 shot kill.

Active Camo.- I don't know what you guys did with it and I don't feel a difference. But I believe Camo. should last up to 1min. from 45sec. and the subtle flickering or the very little visibility on your Spartan should be non existent like in H3 unless the player uses any abilities.

Energy Sword- Seems like you guys removed its subtle speed boost and reduced its RRR when using Smart Link. These changes can stay but Smart Link shouldn't be on melee weapons nor Shotguns as well for future Halo games.

Beam Rifle- Seems like you guys gave the same treatment that the normal Sniper got with its hip fire aim assist and BM (Bullet Magnetism) has been reduced. These changes can stay.

Fuel Rod Cannon- Seems like you guys slightly reduced its blast radius and slightly increased its projectile speed. These changes can stay.

Grenade Launcher- Seems like you reduced its projectile speed. Its fine where it is.

Railgun- Seems like you guys increased its charge time. I believe you guys should just keep the H5 Railgun as is except just reduce its overall RRR. I think the Railgun should be a snapshot weapon, not a sniper because... that's the Sniper's job. The H4 Railgun is a good example on how the Railgun should function for future Halo games as well as not giving it Smart Link.

These are all the changes I believe should happen. Not sure if BR starts can work even after this test but I'm glad you guys are trying. As always thank you for your time and good luck on tuning these weapons.
Played some more games. One thing i have noticed is that after a game i have not seen one person with the GFmagnum have it as the weapon of destruction. Its always Br
DbnpoiZN wrote:
Played some more games. One thing i have noticed is that after a game i have not seen one person with the GFmagnum have it as the weapon of destruction. Its always Br
That's no surprise. The BR has more range than the Gunfighter Magnum, so under normal circumstances on most maps, you're gonna be gunning down someone with the BR before you're in range to effectively pistol them to death. As for myself, I usually take out the Magnum in close-to-midrange circumstances. Other than that, the BR is still an effective Swiss Army Rifle for me, even with the tweaks that I think aren't nearly as bad as people are making them out to be. Then again, I haven't really been focusing a whole lot on the tweaks themselves. Just playing the game.
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
DbnpoiZN wrote:
Played some more games. One thing i have noticed is that after a game i have not seen one person with the GFmagnum have it as the weapon of destruction. Its always Br
That's no surprise. The BR has more range than the Gunfighter Magnum, so under normal circumstances on most maps, you're gonna be gunning down someone with the BR before you're in range to effectively pistol them to death. As for myself, I usually take out the Magnum in close-to-midrange circumstances. Other than that, the BR is still an effective Swiss Army Rifle for me, even with the tweaks that I think aren't nearly as bad as people are making them out to be. Then again, I haven't really been focusing a whole lot on the tweaks themselves. Just playing the game.
You right. Point im making is you dont see it get used alot. Been watching some good youtubers and they swop it for other
weapons as soon as they run in to another weapon. The GF mangun that is and they keep the BR. I personally think the GF fires to quick
the dmr, battle rifle,and pistol need to tuned a bit more the accuracy when im moving fast feels like it is lacking.
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