Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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I'm not sure what has been done to the BR but it does feel a little harder to use, I'm rarely seeing people getting perfects in the killfeed now including myself which feels good to me, the BR was far to easy to use and was everybody's instant go to weapon and made matches very dull and unvaried.

The BR actually needs some skill now and I can tell as I lost a 1v4 but still got the most kills by 7 despite them using all the power weapons and tea-bagging me to get me to leave like my teammates and I just fought back with the BR.

Also I've noticed a lot of players leaving in matches and I feel like that might be to do with it being ranked, nothing is saltier than a losing ranked player (I'm social so losing has never bothered me). If the gametype was moved to social I think more people would play and more feedback would be recieved otherwise their would be a bias of ranked opinions. That's just how it feels to me.

I don't know if anything has been done to the gunfighter magnum but I can use it now (I was never good with it until now). I also like how to SMG has a much wider starting reticle, makes it feel a lot better. Haven't had the chance to use the AR or railgun yet and I don't feel like there's anything different with the Beam rifle or the Grenade launcher atm
I definitely agree with the updates (this doesn't mean I like them, simply that I agree with the reasoning)--but to address moving it to social: Why? It's meant as a reward for the brave and mature. If people don't have the chops to test the weapon updates, so be it. Making it social would make it rather unrewarding.
Arena is sort of unrewarding as it is, you don't get many req points of much exp and the rank often means very little as it doesn't truly represent skill. By moving it to social more people (probably I don't know how the masses think) will try it out, people leaving the game mid match means they don't test the weapons and just get frustrated, meaning they can't test the weapons fully and leave unreliable feedback. In social players often don't care about winning or losing as much as ranked players and so will play and test the update through to the end of the match. allowing more reliable feedback. Ranked in general can also deter players as they feel they'll only meet people who'll dominate them and so they wont play reducing the potential testers whereas in social everyone can kinda feel welcome
From that perspective...yes. not sure why Arena hands out such crap REQ and XP, though....

As this isn't related to weapon tuning, however, I'll drop that subject and add this.

I resent the DMR changes somewhat, the least 343i could have done was added a bigger magazine.
I'm yet to try out the DMR, what maps does it occur on and where? I want to help with this feedback as much as I can
I think I grabbed it on Exile; but I've slept since then, so I apologize if that's wrong.
Ark Vaun wrote:
The weapon tuning seems fair so far. My main complaint has to be grenades. With dual precision weapons, the amount of grenade spam has seemed to greatly increase. I've recorded clips of where I see both teams doing nothing but throwing grenades in order to get that head shot.
Personal recommendation: Reduce the amount of grenades the player spawns with to one. This could make players have to think twice before using grenades. They would have to be more tactical with how they use it as they spawn.
This I disagree with. If players aren't thinking when they use grenades then what does it matter to you or anyone else? You did not say they weren't thinking but that's the feel I got from your post. The grenade spam has been high since H3 (when I really started to play Halo). Nadeshot has always been a skill, I'm glad there's a medal for it in H5.
I would consider myself very good at throwing grenades, defensively and offensively. I am always thinking when using one.

It is annoying when someone or a team throws 10 grenades in one area and you die on the 10th, but it says something about your team or your unlucky circumstance that you ended up in that situation that they had the time to throw that many grenades without any support for you.

Anyhow, grenades are not part of this tuning update.
Question for the BR experts: Is this the base BR? Would this mean that there would be a more tangible benefit to equipping a higher-level modified BR that decreases recoil, etc.? Or have the devs not addressed this?
Question for the BR experts: Is this the base BR? Would this mean that there would be a more tangible benefit to equipping a higher-level modified BR that decreases recoil, etc.? Or have the devs not addressed this?
It hasn't really been mentioned, but I'd assume yes.
Battel riffle feels like it dosent have the accuracy or kill box it used to have hard to get use to this !
I liked the BR the way it was before, this one shoots to slow and feels clunky from all the recoil.

Leave the BR the way it was but reduce how far it can shoot. When arena got a BR start I absolutely loved the playlist way more then pistol starts.
Thanks for the early feedback everyone - keep it coming! And keep in mind, this is VERY FRESH - it's going to take a little time to adjust and I'm sure some things might feel jarring at first, change can be tough regardless of "good" or "bad." :)

1. Re the request for custom games: We don't really have any way to do this unfortunately. The Weapon Tuning Test will be up until the end of the month so hopefully folks will have time to check it out there in the Ranked Arena.

2. I've mentioned this in the blogs and elsewhere but the team is planning on some grenade tweaks but the way the game is setup we're unable to do that on a per-playlist basis. I'd expect to get more details about this in the coming weeks and anticipate some grenade updates rolling out in the November game update.

3. We've covered this a lot already but we're NOT going to be telling everyone exactly what's being changed/tested on each weapon. Play the game, see how it feels to you and let us know. (play more games if possible, I'm sure your POV will change as you get more acclimated) When this test concludes and the team has had a chance to analyze data and feedback then we will share specifics for the final tunings that will be released in the November update.
I don't post here often but I just had to mention that i've played halo for years and years and I'm not sure now is the right time to implement BR starts in general. Maybe put more of them on the map but starting with such an effective weapon (regardless of the current tune) has changed the game play for the worse. Movement doesn't need to occur to seek out a better weapon in most situations.
My intial reaction after a few games with the BR is that it feels awful to use. Yeah before it was the easiest gun in the game to get kills with, but now the burst feels awful. Gimme my magnum back
Ooochay wrote:
Ark Vaun wrote:
The weapon tuning seems fair so far. My main complaint has to be grenades. With dual precision weapons, the amount of grenade spam has seemed to greatly increase. I've recorded clips of where I see both teams doing nothing but throwing grenades in order to get that head shot.
Personal recommendation: Reduce the amount of grenades the player spawns with to one. This could make players have to think twice before using grenades. They would have to be more tactical with how they use it as they spawn.
This I disagree with. If players aren't thinking when they use grenades then what does it matter to you or anyone else? You did not say they weren't thinking but that's the feel I got from your post. The grenade spam has been high since H3 (when I really started to play Halo). Nadeshot has always been a skill, I'm glad there's a medal for it in H5.
I would consider myself very good at throwing grenades, defensively and offensively. I am always thinking when using one.

It is annoying when someone or a team throws 10 grenades in one area and you die on the 10th, but it says something about your team or your unlucky circumstance that you ended up in that situation that they had the time to throw that many grenades without any support for you.

Anyhow, grenades are not part of this tuning update.
No worries :)
My post was targeted towards those who spam grenades and then get lucky when they are able to get a kill. Not those who are precise and tactical.

It was just a personal view on it, not meant to specifically put anyone down. Mostly because not many people considers themselves nade spammers.

I have to add that after I posted that post, I had edited it to clarify my view. I copied it and I add it here for ya':

This is only a personal recommendation/opinion. Even without making the above recommended change, the game play is manage able. Just a preference ^_^
Absolutely despise the new BR, feels so much worse now with this update. And whats the goal of nerfing the BR in the first place? Less exciting gameplay? If you and the enemy both have a un-nerfed BR then you have the same advantage no matter how OP the BR is. The loadout weapons should be left alone considering its the primary weapon most players have already been practicing with, and changing how loadout weapons fire this late in the game is just absurd, your making all players adjust for absolutely no reason. @ske7ch
Ark Vaun wrote:
Ooochay wrote:
Ark Vaun wrote:
The weapon tuning seems fair so far. My main complaint has to be grenades. With dual precision weapons, the amount of grenade spam has seemed to greatly increase. I've recorded clips of where I see both teams doing nothing but throwing grenades in order to get that head shot.
Personal recommendation: Reduce the amount of grenades the player spawns with to one. This could make players have to think twice before using grenades. They would have to be more tactical with how they use it as they spawn.
This I disagree with. If players aren't thinking when they use grenades then what does it matter to you or anyone else? You did not say they weren't thinking but that's the feel I got from your post. The grenade spam has been high since H3 (when I really started to play Halo). Nadeshot has always been a skill, I'm glad there's a medal for it in H5.
I would consider myself very good at throwing grenades, defensively and offensively. I am always thinking when using one.

It is annoying when someone or a team throws 10 grenades in one area and you die on the 10th, but it says something about your team or your unlucky circumstance that you ended up in that situation that they had the time to throw that many grenades without any support for you.

Anyhow, grenades are not part of this tuning update.
No worries :)
My post was targeted towards those who spam grenades and then get lucky when they are able to get a kill. Not those who are precise and tactical.

It was just a personal view on it, not meant to specifically put anyone down. Mostly because not many people considers themselves nade spammers.

I have to add that after I posted that post, I had edited it to clarify my view. I copied it and I add it here for ya':

This is only a personal recommendation/opinion. Even without making the above recommended change, the game play is manage able. Just a preference ^_^
Sorry didn't catch that after you edited it haha. I wouldn't consider myself a grenade spammer tho. Just good with nades. Honestly I won't mind any changes that happen to grenades unless the flight pattern / throwing mechanics are changed. That would take some getting used to. Blast radius, number of grenades, cook time (what is this actually called lol?), overall damage reduction I'm all for, as long as it makes it more skill based. :)
343 had to be doing all this to gather data for the next title right?
Seems like alot of time and money to spend "tweeking" on a game thats been out for what 2 years.
Just wondering, but do you guys have a backup plan in case the weapon changes are overly disliked? So for example, maybe in a couple weeks you would change up one of the weapons to another setting and see how people like that version.
I really like the changes so far, except for a few things.
1. The maps have very little weapon variety. I think the AR, Carbine, SMG, regular Magnum, and DMR should be much more common.

2. The Carbine feels a bit weird. It always felt a harder to aim than the other weapons, but it's rapid rate of fire and range made up for that. I have a pretty good aim, but I found myself always losing to BRs. I think it should either get a bit more aim assist, or just revert back to how it was, preferably the later.

3. I think there should be a Warzone version of this test as well. This will allow players to spawn in a speicifc weapon that they want to test. I found it a bit hard to see how certain weapons feel, due to there being a lack of variety.

Other than what I said above, I really like the changes. Especially with the BR.
The BR is terrible now. It is super shakey. Shots don't hit and it is extremely inconsistent. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we DO NOT want these changes to take effect for the BR. Please put the BR back to normal. Do not put your own mix into the guns. We have been playing with the same BR for 2 years and these changes are random and not even needed. Please put the BR back to normal.
I agree completely and I also think that BR starts are not a good idea because it makes the magnum pointless and I prefer starting with an AR and normal magnum.
ske7ch wrote:
2. I've mentioned this in the blogs and elsewhere but the team is planning on some grenade tweaks but the way the game is setup we're unable to do that on a per-playlist basis. I'd expect to get more details about this in the coming weeks and anticipate some grenade updates rolling out in the November game update.
Can we please get starting grenades dropped to one instead of two? This was a huge improvement to warzone assault and is much needed in arena, they're too much of a crutch and radar extender than anything else.
My buddy ChiefOregano117 and I were super excited to finally dive into the tuning playlist, but right away in the first three games or so of playing, I see some major problems and some other nicer feedback I'd like to add here. I hope everyone can agree or see where I'm coming from.

The Carbine is where I'd like to start. Why is it being tuned to be more effective when spamming and less with range? The carbine is supposed to be like the covenants version of the DMR and it's already quite effective when spamming, so if you wanna drop the range, please don't help and encourage people to spam them please? Especially if all the other weapons are being tuned to actually be their correct effective distances.

Next is The Assault Rifle. Everything looks good, but in the tuning list it says it's more effective for players if used right.. I haven't really used the AR as much but I hope you guys mean effectiveness comes from burst control instead of just shooting with smart link. The AR has never needed a scope so it's best that it just works effectively with or without smart link in my opinion.

OH GOODNESS. The Battle rifle. Something seems way off about it. I think there was a nice change in animation to make it really look like it's shooting a three round burst, but I could be crazy. The main problem with it is kinda hard to determine. The whole entire time I've played this playlist, I've never made a single perfect 4 shot kill. It doesn't matter what engagement range I'm at, I just can't. It seems to be like 5-6 perfect headshots gets me the kill, but that shouldn't be a thing! Maybe the range is too short? Maybe the damage was lowered? I have no idea but it's definitely not performing right.

Next up: The Gunfighter Magnum. All magnums are supposed to work well at all distances, right? Most of the past ones anyway, but anyway, my point is that it doesn't need it's effective range changed. People already don't like that it takes something like 6 shots to the head to kill someone with a gunfighter, and now it's only going to be effective close range? This should be a weapon that people get excited for seeing on the field! Like a faster and better M6H! That's the fun of the gunfighter is being able to spam if you want, but still having to control your shots and now I feel people won't touch it.

Speaking of things people won't touch, the SMG is my next target. I love that the range is being changed, but at the same time I feel it's too close range. I was already in a very short range engagement and somehow didn't kill someone with my SMG when I normally would've. My aim was fine, everyone else's seems to be fine, but I'm not sure what went wrong. I honestly thought the damage was actually being nerfed when I used it, but I'm sure it's just too close range now. Maybe that's just me...?

DMR looks good, but why make it less effective at short range? I see everyone wants to force players to use weapons at the appropriate ranges, but In Halo Reach and 4 it was just like a magnum that could shoot far and players will continue to try doing so. If it's best to make it less effective at short range, whatever.

Energy Sword seems ok. You might move around the map faster normally, but when you're getting shot by people, it's rare you actually get to them in time before you die so I don't see this speed nerf useful. I find it OP however when on maps where it spawns, it spawns too frequently. That's a problem because the same people hog the sword. It's not that they are on a spree with it (that's just my experience seeing others with it, could be different for others, idk).

Camo is great.

Fuel Rod Cannon works great, I just wish it spawned less with less ammo.

The railgun seems a little too slow, but it's alright I guess.

The Grenade Launcher works great.

Motion sensors aren't picking up movement now, is that right? My friends were talking something about that, but I'm not too sure. I hope motion sensors arent messed around like that because a motion sensor needs to sense motion...

I think the last thing to cover is the Beam rifle! I did get a snapshot with it earlier, but I did notice the changes put into it. I like it.

That's everything I have to say! I hope my voice is heard because I really am passionate about Halo and I wanna help everyone have the best experience possible!
Alright so after playing a few games, here are my thoughts:

Aim Assist has been decreased across the board. You'll notice that if someone is strafing/thrustering, you're going to miss shots much more often. The BR is still a 4sk and I don't know if they lowered the fire rate, but the aim assist decrease alone is enough to lower the TTK in the overall game a lot with a lot less perfects being hit.

I've found the BR so inconsistent that I'm opting to just pick up a DMR whenever I see it. which brings me to the notable changes here. The range at which the reticule shows as red has been decreased. This makes it's medium range much weaker, which was intended. Overall though, I still find that hitting 5 shots with this weapon is easier than the BR now at mid-close range.

The pistol is an interesting concept. There is bloom that forces timing of shots or being really close range. I haven't used it enough to really comment, but I like the concept. That being said, if they are going to have this pistol with bloom, I don't think they should have any other type of pistol on the map.

Overall, the BR was nerfed too hard, the DMR is fine, the pistol is fine as long as there are no other variations on the map.
The Aim assist is hard but if every weapon remains hard, then it will be something to just get used to. (I typically average 60% accuracy and am only hitting 50% with these settings, but we'll see if I get used to it). If they had all of these new weapons and then one of the old pistols with the old aim assist, it would be a no brainer of where I'd be rushing every time, which brings me back to my old comment of not having any other pistols on the map. Mixing these weapons with any of the old weapons will cause a weapon break just as bad as the initial one where the changes aren't even used*

*I don't think the weapons are that broken right now, but clearly these changes said otherwise
Ugh, just as I was about to be happy to play this update, lots of those weapon changes make the game less suited for competitive in a lot of ways.
Let me break down what has happened to the weapons that in my opinion make them worse overall and not able to establish roles.

Battle Rifle:
  • Now has more bullet spread making it impossible to consistency hit targets outside of its RRR
  • jerky recoil that makes a "perfect" kill harder even when the BR has the target fully in the reticule.
If the goal was to make this weapon the premier starting weapon, it would be immediately laughed out of the HCS settings and dumped for the pistol. I did agree that is was too powerful at all ranges. But the methods to retune it to a more balanced state are so off the mark. The random spread aspect while not tuning down the power makes gunfights less consistent and more luck based. Especially at long range. Oh BTW just won't get crossed map and killed off spawn anymore doesn't mean map movement won't grind to a halt. The hit scan nature means it's still possible to pin down players and clog up the map. This should not be the starting weapon on these characteristics alone.

SMG
  • Bloom increased and intical reticle size increased.
  • No longer has the ability to headshot. So instead of 4 headshots vs 6 bodyshots it's now just 6 shots total.
  • Smart link reticle bloom increased as well.
Off talk about a weakened weapon. For starters, I find little incentive to use this weapon. The gunfighter magnum is punished less for firing at max RoF while the SMG can only be used as a last resort weapon. The loss of the extra damage and inabilty to pulse for better accuracy makes it very unreliable and turns it into a poor man's shotgun. It also puts it at a disadvantage against Melee first and Spartan chargers since they will win trades with the pistol and BR being one headshot only needed while the SMG can't win it. No reason to pick it up and isn't gonna improve the gun play.

Assault Rifle
  • Bloom has been increased all across the board. It also resets slower and blooms out quicker.
  • smart link no longer gives a slight reduction in bloom.
  • Recoil has been slightly increased.
The worst weapon right now in the tuning. Can't do anything at mid range because burst firing is too slow compared to the precision weapons and will not be able to be accurate enough to sustain engagements outside of close range. By increasing the bloom, you've now increased the luck gone into the gunfights and have made it to inconsistent to do anything skillful with. This ain't a "power weapon" this is just junk. The gunfighter magnum is better in every way. Way over nerfed and no reason to shot smarter except full auto and hope bloom doesn't screw you over.

so theses weapon shoul be changed. Adding random spread and more bloom and recoil without any benefits for bursting firing just render them uncompetitive based on underpoweredness and randomness. The Assualt Rifle being the most redundant weapons. SMG beats it, Gunfighter beats it, BR beats it, DMR beats it and it excellls at nothing. If this version stays, I would be less enthusiastic to play H5.
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