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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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Batchford wrote:
I also haven't really notice a huge change in the AR/SMG, AR especially. It still shreds especially if you get the first couple of bullets on the enemy. Smart Scoping with the AR especially still has really good range.
Apoll0 wrote:
AR: This still feels like it can destroy too easily. a slow tap-fire (release every 4 or 5 bullets) keeps the spread under control and still extends the range significantly.
I really disagree with this: Firstly, the fact that 4-5 round bursts extends the range and that it does better if you get the first shots off on the enemy is the entire point of the gun: It's an automatic weapon that is capable of enaging at medium-close or even medium range if you use accurate bursts, and is especially good at getting kills on enemies you have the drop on, that's why there's a silencer on it.

You guys just seem to want it to only be good up close, which is what the SMG exists for.

All of that being said, The AR isn't even worth using right now. Before, full auto spraying was absolutely too good, to the point where you were better off spraying then using accurate bursts, but now even though you need to use bursts to use it past point blank range, it's not even worth it due to how low the DPS is relative to the BR even at closer ranges. It's still better then the BR/Magnum at point blank range, but then you don't need to burst anyways, so there goes trying to reward skill with it, which is what the point of it's changes were; and at that range you are better off with an SMG anyways.

Right now the AR is stuck at a place where the SMG is better then it up close and the BR is better then it at medium range, and it's not good enough at the distances in between relative to either of them to be worth picking up relative to sticking with the BR or picking up the SMG instead.

Apoll0 wrote:
Close Range - fighting up close with this weapon feels artificially difficult. Cant tell if its the aiming, the Aim Assist changes or a combination.
TLDR; The problem with the BR was that it would aim for you and bend bullets around corners. Those issues have been resolved, but then a bunch of other unnecessary -Yoink- was done on top of that. KISS.
This is a good thing, as is, the BR is still too good up close relative to the AR.
Yeah i can't disagree with this more. I got multiple "Longshot" metals with the AR. Against players that still had shields, so it took multiple bursts but wasn't that difficult. I'm sorry but a non-precision, bullet-hose (ANY weapon where you just have to hold the trigger and it keeps firing for you) weapon should be almost impossible to get that medal. Not totally impossible mind you, if you see someone with no shields then you shoot a couple bursts and your accuracy is really really good, sure. But in my experience, as an average player, its still "not that hard". Personally, i find it insulting to the players with how much this gun still "holds your hand". And i am not sure what you are talking about with it being outclassed up close by the BR? You can still just spray-away up close and kill with it against anything other than an SMG or SR.

And in what world is "Artificially difficult" a GOOD thing, regardless of range? Artificially difficult means that the weapon is literally wonky and harder to look around with on your screen when you are in a close range engagement. Even without firing, just aiming an AR at a player up close is easier than it is with the BR. If 2 weapons are within their RRR, they should't "feel" different just to aim with. That means you are artificially handicapping a player. The AR, but the nature of the way it fires, is already an easier weapon to use up close than the BR. If i'm skilled enough to keep the BR trained on you and get a kill in 4 or 5 shots, i should be able to do so without an extra handicap in the way. The -Yoink- of it is, i think some of this "Artificial difficulty" has more to do with the aiming system itself than the weapon designs. There may not be anything they can do about that until Halo 6. grrrr

"Range recommendations" are basically there to say, "ok, compared to other weapons being shot with equal accuracy, this one really shines in [insert arbitrary and non-specific range here]". If i am skilled enough to use a more difficult weapon (like the tuned BR) with better accuracy than a player using an easier weapons (the AR) even within the AR's "ideal range" I should be rewarded with the kill. The burst-rate and random spread really jacked this up with the BR atm, but thats a topic for another post lol.

The goal of weapon balancing to a large degree isn't to just make it Rock/Paper/Scissors. That's incredibly boring and frustrating to play. The AR shouldn't always win up close just because its up close. By the same token, the AR shouldn't always lose mid-range battles against a BR just because that's supposed to be the BR's "intended range". If you have an AR and are firing it at mid range against a player with a BR, the "easier" weapon in that scenario, you should still be able to get a kill provided a couple conditions are met. 1) the machanics of the weapon (NOT the aiming aiming system or AA variance provided you're still within scoped RRR range) makes the AR require equal or more skillful shooting at that range and 2) You're accuracy given those conditions is better than the other player. If i were to make a specific recommendation, it would be that instead of being able to fire 4 or 5 rounds in a burst and maintain very good accuracy at range, the AR should only be able to for 2 or 3 rounds in a burst to maintain that accuracy.

Right now, its hard for me to make a final judgement on the AR like I have on the BR because i have only been able to use it maybe once per game on average. I think it needs a little faster expansion on its spray still BUT i also think its loads better than it was previously. I they didn't make any more changes to it i think i could live with that. 343 needs to run this playlist with a re-retuned BR (no random spread, tighten the burst a teeny teeny bit, leave the AA and Magnetism reductions in place) and run magnum/AR starts.
As a whole. I find that when I play the " weapon tuning " playlist, my aiming goes out the window. For me, the BR has become unuseable.

I really didn't like the change. DMR also is now weird to use. It's like I have to re start all over again. 😞
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
Smackzzy wrote:
What happens on btb maps like Viking if these changes are pushed though? Good luck killing the gauss gunner. Kids can barely kill me now.

what happens with br battles in all that open space? People will run out of bullets before dropping someone to half shields.

this whole idea is nonsense. By fixing one imaginary problem, you are going to create a bunch of new real problems.
Vehicle balance could be a real issue in BTB, but long range engagements always felt terrible IMO. I'm actually looking forward to being able to move on BTB maps without getting cross-mapped.
me too, maybe just because of this fact, taking out vechicles will be easier in different ways.
Oh yeah, not a fan of the DMR changes, either.
So basically I hate the BR and DMR changes, but the rest are tolerable.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
Lol the old days. You mean the old days of H5?

A lot of people on commenting feel like this, but then again a lot of others feel the opposite. And -Yoink- was broke that's why they're fixing it.
I feel like the BR does need to be changed, but not so drastically.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
if by broke you mean poor gameplay mechanics, just ask the community what they think, oh wait.. they've moved on a long time ago because halo is too horrible/boring/stale to play. this weapon tuning is honestly a step in the right direction. its makes teamwork take alot more work and thats how it should be, and most of the people upset are the ones that have been abusing halo 5's poor game mechanics.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
Ok, done a quick check, you've only played 2 games, that's not a good number of games to get a good idea of how the retuned weapons work
Some notable feedback.

GF Magnum is great for close range. I found that I was switching to it during close quarters and swapping out for longer distances. I like this change a lot.
BR sometimes feels inconsistent . The gun also feels less oppressive at all ranges, which makes it a fair starting weapon. The range has changed how I play, so I would love to play with AR-Magnum starts to compare the changes.
The DMR and Carbine feel similar to the older version, with the exception of close range fights with the DMR. It feels overly difficult.
The Railgun is a weird change. It's difficult to judge because I have to undo an entire year of learning the timing to shoot it. I loved the previous Railgun, but I understand the nerf to prevent it from being used as a "shotgun."
The new motion sensor is amazing. It has to stay.

I didn't use the other guns enough to have an opinion, but I would love to see a Plasma Caster buff. That gun is still useless. It was great pre-nerf.
Pacer wrote:
Some notable feedback.

GF Magnum is great for close range. I found that I was switching to it during close quarters and swapping out for longer distances. I like this change a lot.
BR sometimes feels inconsistent . The gun also feels less oppressive at all ranges, which makes it a fair starting weapon. The range has changed how I play, so I would love to play with AR-Magnum starts to compare the changes.
The DMR and Carbine feel similar to the older version, with the exception of close range fights with the DMR. It feels overly difficult.
The Railgun is a weird change. It's difficult to judge because I have to undo an entire year of learning the timing to shoot it. I loved the previous Railgun, but I understand the nerf to prevent it from being used as a "shotgun."

I didn't use the other guns enough to have an opinion, but I would love to see a Plasma Caster buff. That gun is still useless. It was great pre-nerf.
I completely agree about the Railgun, it was a weapon that everyone had gotten used to the timing of, now with the longer charge time. I keep letting go of the trigger before it's ready to fire, which, while annoying, is ultimately something they had to do, everyone was using it as an alternative to the Shotgun, that's not the intended job they wanted it for, it's meant more as a mid to long range weapon that deals lots of damage. That being said, I do want to see how these changes affect Whiplash, hopefully we'll see used less in Warzone when these changes go through
one thing ive had an issue with in the new halo's. plasma grenade was alot more effective in halo 3. now when i get a kill with a stickie, im genuinely surprised. i feel a slightly faster grenade throw with the plasma grenade would actually make it fun again.
one thing ive had an issue with in the new halo's. plasma grenade was alot more effectice in halo 3. now when i get a kill with a stickie, im genually surprised. i feel a slightly faster grenade throw with the plasma grenade would actually make it fun again.
Personally, I like the stickies, but they could do with a faster throw.
I have played quite a few matches in this playlist now, and my two main take-aways were this.

  1. I am in love with the Halo 5 pistol, and to me it's the bread and butter of the Halo 5 experience. Spawning with the BR, and gunfighter magnum seemed exciting at first, but proved to be a profoundly unsatisfying experience for me.
  2. I was fine with the BR nerf as I feel that the gun is still really strong and it just takes more skill to use now. However, I did not like the nerfs to the Rail gun, Carbine, and DMR. Those guns feel considerably weaker now, and not worth picking up anymore. Please consider not nerfing these guns especially the DMR.
343, thank you for giving the community a chance to play with these changes, and test them out before they go live in the sandbox. I am glad that we are able to give each of our two cents on the subject. However, I want to make sure I reiterate my main point of concern so that you realize how much this one aspect in particular affected my experience as a player. The nerfs/buffs are an important aspect to look at, but my main area of concern was not spawning with the Halo 5 Magnum. I did not enjoy the BR/Gunfighter Magnum starts, and I find myself gravitating towards playlists which let me spawn with the Halo 5 Magnum.

Best,
-master X 117
Here is my feedback:
Assault Rifle: The reticle is larger now. I found it to be more effective in bursts. Good change.
Battle Rifle: I do not like the slower rate of fire and random spread. However, the range nerf is good.
Carbine: Didn't notice anything significant with it.
DMR: It is kind of pointless now, since most of the maps are close quarters anyway. Can't really test it in arena.
Gunfighter Magnum: I like all the changes to this weapon.
SMG: Still very effective, but the range was nerfed. Good change.
Energy Sword: I disagree with the removal of the 10% speed boost.
Fuel Rod: Revert all the changes here. It was horrible before and now it's even worse.

I also do not like BR/Gunfighter starts. The game just becomes BR spam. It should be Assault Rifle/Magnum starts in arena.
Smackzzy wrote:
What happens on btb maps like Viking if these changes are pushed though? Good luck killing the gauss gunner. Kids can barely kill me now.

what happens with br battles in all that open space? People will run out of bullets before dropping someone to half shields.

this whole idea is nonsense. By fixing one imaginary problem, you are going to create a bunch of new real problems.
Vehicle balance could be a real issue in BTB, but long range engagements always felt terrible IMO. I'm actually looking forward to being able to move on BTB maps without getting cross-mapped.
I don't think 343I had BTB in mind at all when doing these changes. Heck, BTB as a whole has been an after thought in this game I feel.

Let's be honest, these changes are mainly geared towards the HCS. Not trying to say 343I don't care how the changes will impact other playlists/modes but it's pretty obvious why they're experimenting with a lot of these changes.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
if by broke you mean poor gameplay mechanics, just ask the community what they think, oh wait.. they've moved on a long time ago because halo is too horrible/boring/stale to play. this weapon tuning is honestly a step in the right direction. its makes teamwork take alot more work and thats how it should be, and most of the people upset are the ones that have been abusing halo 5's poor game mechanics.
You're an SR47..... it seems like you might not have played enough to qualify the history of Halo 5 mechanics. The Community crapped on the Campaign story WAY WAY more than MP mechanics. Once the Pistol registration issues and customized dead zones were intro'd the Halo 5 weaponry as a whole was arguably the finest of all Halo versions to date. You are going to start to learn quickly when you nerf a dozen weapons others will quickly replace them as debatable OP weapons. The Storm rifle already owned short range...now it will absolute wreck planets enough to where people will want to see it on a public timer. Effective Snipers seemed to be having a great time before the changes. Now they will have the pink slip to maps. Light Rifle also gets a massive promotion because all of the combative counter weaponry are nerfed.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
if by broke you mean poor gameplay mechanics, just ask the community what they think, oh wait.. they've moved on a long time ago because halo is too horrible/boring/stale to play. this weapon tuning is honestly a step in the right direction. its makes teamwork take alot more work and thats how it should be, and most of the people upset are the ones that have been abusing halo 5's poor game mechanics.
You're an SR47..... it seems like you might not have played enough to qualify the history of Halo 5 mechanics. The Community crapped on the Campaign story WAY WAY more than MP mechanics. Once the Pistol registration issues and customized dead zones were intro'd the Halo 5 weaponry as a whole was arguably the finest of all Halo versions to date. You are going to start to learn quickly when you nerf a dozen weapons others will quickly replace them as debatable OP weapons. The Storm rifle already owned short range...now it will absolute wreck planets enough to where people will want to see it on a public timer. Effective Snipers seemed to be having a great time before the changes. Now they will have the pink slip to maps. Light Rifle also gets a massive promotion because all of the combative counter weaponry are nerfed.
And you have only played 6 games of the update. I'm an SR 148, played 80-some games, and have had no trouble shutting down a Sniper...but the Storm Rifle is a bit troublesome.

What I think is great about this is the new emphasis on team shooting. I still think a lot of this angst is players who haven't played through the bad to find the good. But so far, in my experience, there's very little bad.
Hazefu26 wrote:
Absolutly hate all the new weapon changes, game feels slow especially with the new radar. If it aint broke dont fix it 343
Finally, someone who agrees with me. Please, come back to the old days!!
if by broke you mean poor gameplay mechanics, just ask the community what they think, oh wait.. they've moved on a long time ago because halo is too horrible/boring/stale to play. this weapon tuning is honestly a step in the right direction. its makes teamwork take alot more work and thats how it should be, and most of the people upset are the ones that have been abusing halo 5's poor game mechanics.
You're an SR47..... it seems like you might not have played enough to qualify the history of Halo 5 mechanics. The Community crapped on the Campaign story WAY WAY more than MP mechanics. Once the Pistol registration issues and customized dead zones were intro'd the Halo 5 weaponry as a whole was arguably the finest of all Halo versions to date. You are going to start to learn quickly when you nerf a dozen weapons others will quickly replace them as debatable OP weapons. The Storm rifle already owned short range...now it will absolute wreck planets enough to where people will want to see it on a public timer. Effective Snipers seemed to be having a great time before the changes. Now they will have the pink slip to maps. Light Rifle also gets a massive promotion because all of the combative counter weaponry are nerfed.
i stopped playing a long time ago. i occasionally popped on to see how things are. sure its improved but i still could not be bothered playing more than one or 2 games. what im playing now is a vast improvement. its fun as a solo player. its the only reason i continue playing the weapon tuning playlist. the only issue ive had so far is the matchmaking, but thats understandable since halo 5 has a low population. i care very little about ranks, k/d. If what you said is true then they should be nerfed too
NightClerk wrote:
I played 4 games last night, and got my hands on some of the items subject to tuning. Here are my thoughts, mostly on items I used/saw in action yesterday.
Battle Rifle:Overall, some good, some bad. I see what 343 is trying to do by toning down the BR at long range, but nerfing the weapon in the way they did and making it a starting weapon, in my opinion, is not the best way to go about it. I believe this could be better addressed by simply keeping the Magnum/AR starts and limiting the number of BRs on maps, especially small maps, replacing the old ones with say... tactical magnums (or something along those lines). A change like this also has unintended consequences, like the Light Rifle now becoming extremely valuable.
  • Short Range: I lost a couple gunfights (to the Gunfighter Magnum) in close-quarters I normally would have won. I think this is fair, as the BR should excel at mid and long ranges, and not be a pocket shotgun.
  • Mid Range: The bounce/spread becomes somewhat evident. This is not a good change, in my mind, but I can live with it at mid range. It feels too jumpy. I had a few enemies that required additional bursts that normally would have been dead already. If I put the crosshairs on a bad guy and pull the trigger, I should be rewarded. The more I think about this, the more this seems like a poor change. It doesn't break the weapon, but it takes the BR from the precision weapon category to something less desirable. I believe I see what 343 is trying to accomplish, but I really don't think this is the ideal way to go about it.
  • Long Range: The bounce/spread becomes excessive. If the community feels the BR needs to be toned down at long range, this is not the ideal way to go about it, in my mind. This is the standard issue rifle of a 26th century military force with faster-than-light travel being used by genetically superior super-soldiers in hella badass armor suits. I think a weapon like this would have more manageable recoil, and certainly when in the hands of a Spartan. The BR is a "precision weapon," it should perform as such, not bounce around. Keep in mind that the BR is (probably) still going to be heavily used in Warzone and BTB, so it should be reasonably effective at long range. If range is a concern in Arena, which I understand, it can be removed from some maps.
DMR: I had limited use of the DMR, but I did seem to notice a change in short/close range engagements which I think is fair. I do not think the mid-range (say 30 - 100 meters) effectiveness reduction is fair. If a weapon can nail an enemy at 100+ meters, it should also be effective at 50 meters, and remain effective up until very close range combat.

Gunfighter Magnum: This is such a fun gun to use. "Gunfighter" is a very appropriate name, too. I found myself winning gunfights up close and personal when the bad guy had the BR out, and I found myself losing gunfights when the bad guy had his Gunfighter out and I had my BR. Which, from what I understand, is what 343 wants. Did not seem overly-effective at mid range.
Active Camo: I was on the giving and receiving end of kills with the camo last night. I did not see a massive difference in the current camo and it's tuned brother. The edges of camouflaged Spartans appear a bit smoother (maybe my eyes deceive me). Not sure if duration has changed. Either way, it does not appear overpowered, and walking normal speed breaking camo is excellent, especially with the new "Ability Tracker."

Energy Sword: I did not see or use this weapon, but I 100% support any nerfs to the energy sword. Spartan Abilities and the sword's current speed increase are a very overpowered combo.
Grenade Launcher: I was shot at a few times by the tuned Grenade Launcher last night, and a couple times I thought I was dead, I survived. The tuned version seems to not have the blast radius the weapon currently does? I don't have enough experience to have an informed opinion here.Ability Tracker: 343, I love this change. It encourages players to be more aggressive in advancing on enemy positions while still having to play smart if they wish to avoid showing up on the tracker. It adds a great dynamic. Also, who doesn't love catching enemies unaware for the double back-smack?
BR/Gunfighter Start: As has been mentioned on this thread already and I mentioned earlier, I think the changes to the BR are inappropriate and not completely fair. So assuming the BR's final version is closer to the current version than the tuned version, I prefer the Magnum/AR start. I think giving everyone a BR off the rip would make the game a big BR orgy.
It's been enjoyable seeing what other players have to say. Also, 343, it may be helpful in the future to have multiple threads for updates, so one thread could be on the BR, another on Camo, etc. One last nugget. Frequently, developers will think a gun is "way too OP," then adjust it to the point that it becomes useless. While I don't think any gun here is useless, just be wary that the game has been out for a while, and besides the usual groaning about certain weapons, players generally do not seem dissatisfied with the sandbox as it stands, er, sits? Again, keep in mind how changes to weapons will affect the value of other short (Storm Rifle, Brute Plasma) and long (Light Rifle) range weapons. Looking forward to more games in this playlist.
I have to amend what I said about the BR. Something is wrong.

I played a game of Slayer on Truth last night. I was on the red side of carbine two, looking into the top of red base. A bad guy was AFK in top red, I SmartLink to shoot him. I'm not sure of the exact distance, but the reticle at that range covers about 2/3 of a Spartan (I think we can agree that the BR, heck, even the magnum, should be effective at that range). I put 3 shots into his body (hitmarker with each burst), then aim at the chin. I did not move the reticle from here on out. I fire a 4th time, hitmarker, I fire a 5th time, hitmarker, I fire 6th time, it's a kill and a headshot.

Let's think about this, 3 body shots (hitmarker on each shot), then 3 additional shots to the head, eventually registering a headshot and a kill. The BR should be consistent (and certainly at that medium range), as it is a "precision weapon." So how is the 4th burst not a kill but the 6th burst is (keep in mind, the reticle did not move)? Three shots to pop shields, then a 4th shot to the head to finish it off. The BR needs to be re-tuned (or not tuned at all), before the final update is made. I don't think gunfights should be determined by a seemingly random dice roll. I put the reticle on his head, what more do you want from me?
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