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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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v Krypt v wrote:
I like all of the tunes except for the BR.
Try playing more than one game, learn how to use the retuned BR
The Boltshot is actually usable now lmao
Dear 343,

I rarely post in the forums; however, I feel compelled to post a reply.

Halo 5: Guardians will be nearing its two year anniversary on October 27, 2017. Why is there suddenly an urge to tune weapons now? It seems to me that this is not necessary.

If the weapons are altered to what is presented in the playlist, then I will no longer be playing Halo 5. Studios (including yourselves) seem to think that they know what their fans would like.

I shall provide an example. Where is Big Team Battle ranked? Moreover, little investment went into one of the best playlists of all-time. The maps that were released on launch were awful, and it is only through the community (fans) that we now have some decent maps.

Anyhow, make the changes as you see fit, 343. But I think that I will be moving on from the Halo franchise soon.

Please focus on what the actual players want, and not what 343 thinks the players want.

Cheers,

Mike
are you a writer?
The regular railgun is too slow when it comes to charge up time, so I don't understand why it needs to be slowed down even more. You will just turn it into another vanilla spartan laser. Almost useless. Also, when you take a weapon out of Forge or Custom Games, you take away a good reason for people to play in Forge or Custom Games.

The SMG is fine the way it is. A close quarters bullet hose. It doesn't need tweaking at all.

The Gunfighter Magnum needs more bullet magnetism.

The DMR isn't that effective at close range. It has a slow rate of fire compared to other weapons. No need to change it.

The Assault Rifle is almost useless anyway, so it would be better to make it more effective by increasing bullet damage.

Also, you failed to put rockets into your tuning test. Rockets are an area denial weapon. There have been too many times when I have shot it at an opponent and merely knocked down there shields when it should have been a kill. Make regular SPNKRs and rockets to be like the Halo 2 SPNKRs.
Dear 343,
HOW THE HELL DID YOU MAKE THE BR SO FREAKING BAD?
It feels inconsistent and frustrating to use please bring back the old one.
The regular railgun is too slow when it comes to charge up time, so I don't understand why it needs to be slowed down even more. You will just turn it into another vanilla spartan laser. Almost useless. Also, when you take a weapon out of Forge or Custom Games, you take away a good reason for people to play in Forge or Custom Games.

The SMG is fine the way it is. A close quarters bullet hose. It doesn't need tweaking at all.

The Gunfighter Magnum needs more bullet magnetism.

The DMR isn't that effective at close range. It has a slow rate of fire compared to other weapons. No need to change it.

The Assault Rifle is almost useless anyway, so it would be better to make it more effective by increasing bullet damage.

Also, you failed to put rockets into your tuning test. Rockets are an area denial weapon. There have been too many times when I have shot it at an opponent and merely knocked down there shields when it should have been a kill. Make regular SPNKRs and rockets to be like the Halo 2 SPNKRs.
My advice, try to understand what they're trying to do by playing more than two games, many people would disagree with you on the railgun and rockets as well, the railgun charge time was never too slow and the rockets have been performing how they are intended, you don't need to kill to deny area
Nickphoria wrote:
I played some more today and i am a person that readily excepts change. These changes are garbage. I fell like I'm playing call of duty. Let me explain why. The BR feels like I'm running and gunning with an m16 from modern warfare. I'm not going to go thru every weapon. I thought this was the year 2550 something and my character was a 1 ton super cyborg killing machine. Tell me how he can't control recoil of a freaking pistol. Also, I have a serious question I would like a serious answer too.

IRL (in real life) a side arm is accurate at ranges around 15 yards and a battle rifle (M4 for this example) is accurate up to 600 yards.

How are you guys measuring distance in halo because if a BR can't shoot across coliseum? There is no way you can tell me from one corner of coliseum to the other is 600 meters.

Close Pistol range should be no more than 15 yards.
smg range 15 yards to about 50 yards
ar range 30 yards to about 75 yard
A mid range fight in my mind is 75 yards to about 150 yards or so give or take.
So on and so forth. But whatever.
You're comparing realism to gameplay which wouldn't be balanced.
I think the BR is to weak, feels like it takes 5 shots for a perfect now, very disheartening.. I like the beam rifle and gun fighter pistol. But please fix the BR/Carbine/DMR I feel like they all got nerfed and now will stand no chance when faced with a assault rifle in your face. Please fix it so that they're not so weak that it feels like it takes a extra shot now to kill someone, by the time we finish a firefight the team is fully spawned making game modes like CTF and strongholds very difficult to succeed if you're playing evenly skilled players.

Thanks from BOSTONSBEST - MGE ECLIPSE!!
Perhaps 343i will listen to customer feedback? I sure hope so, because these changes SUCK.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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I absolutely disagree that utlity weapons should be grouped into "high lethality, high skill" and "low lethality, low skill": Making ANY weapon inherently be less good but just require less skill is bad: The goal should be for all guns to be proportionally as useful (aside from power weapons) balancing their verstality and effecitveness inside a given range. High level AR usage and high level BR usage should be just as effecitve, overall: The AR should just have have it's usable ranges focused around close medium range, and the BR should be centered around medium range.

Designing any weapon to just be "for lower skill players, and therefore not as good" is bad balance.
  1. When I use "utility" here I'm only talking about the starting weapons; I'm not trying to group any weapons together - I see it as a sliding scale.
  2. Replace "low skill" with "low skill floor" in my post and I think it more accurately reflects what my goal would be. Like I wrote previously, I think if the all autos had a defined, consistent spray/recoil pattern then the skill ceiling for using those weapons would undoubtedly be much greater. For the starting weapon, I'd want an auto that has very little recoil/spray but does less damage per shot than an auto that has more recoil/spray.
  3. I think you absolutely need a utility weapon for newer or less skilled players. Why is the average player in the HCS playlist better than the average player in Arena, for example? Some people are intimidated by the name "HCS", some are uncomfortable with the different radar - but I would bet a decent amount just like having autos to use. Those people are frustrated by shooting 25% with the pistol and not finishing any kills, so I can see why spraying an AR would be more satisfactory for them. I don't know why anyone who wants Halo to grow would be against that idea.
  4. Using range to differentiate the weapons seems to be the direction 343 wants to take the sandbox, so you're not alone in that thinking. And I'm not completely opposed to that either, but doesn't it seem a little "artificial"? IMO it's kind of like using lore to determine how the sandbox works. What exactly is gained by moving more towards range-specific weapons? Is the game more fun? Is the game more skillful? Does it bring in new players? I'm just not sure what it accomplishes other than "it should be this way". It's an artificial thing that adds another level of complexity to balancing weapons. There are so many other things to address first.
  • Railgun....ok I know most people don't like it and I 100% understand why BUT I think the big issue with this weapon isn't how it works, it's the map that it's on. I think it should be on maps that have long sightlines, corridors... like Torque for example I wouldn't mind trying it instead of the sniper. I do think it does take a tad too long to charge up, but I'm fine with it taking longer then before though.
Yeah, this is exactly what I've been thinking.
The maps its on make are all ones that you can get jumped on pretty easily, I think it really needs to be tried out on Torque before people jump to conclusions.
That being said, I'm going to predict it's still just a tad too slow even accounting for that.
I think of the tuned railgun as a spartan laser type weapon - it can be good in Warzone/BTB but I don't think it fits on the 4x4 maps.
  • Railgun....ok I know most people don't like it and I 100% understand why BUT I think the big issue with this weapon isn't how it works, it's the map that it's on. I think it should be on maps that have long sightlines, corridors... like Torque for example I wouldn't mind trying it instead of the sniper. I do think it does take a tad too long to charge up, but I'm fine with it taking longer then before though.
Yeah, this is exactly what I've been thinking.
The maps its on make are all ones that you can get jumped on pretty easily, I think it really needs to be tried out on Torque before people jump to conclusions.
That being said, I'm going to predict it's still just a tad too slow even accounting for that.
I think of the tuned railgun as a spartan laser type weapon - it can be good in Warzone/BTB but I don't think it fits on the 4x4 maps.
I may have to try using the retuned Railgun like that, that being said, the splaser isn't meant for anti infantry, maybe they want the railgun to be the anti infantry version of the splaser or something like that
I'm going to focus on the BR tune here. While I give you credit for trying to fine tuning weapons the BR is no longer what I would call reliable or predictable. Hit registration is definitely off. And as a starting weapon it by no means fits the category for a starting weapon. Your starting weapon should always be the reliable one or your go to weapon. It no longer fits that as a starter and to be honest if it wasn't a starting weapon and just a weapon one could pick up in a map. You would find that the weapon would be rarely picked up at all. Another issue also is H5 maps and everything else were built around what you already had originally set for your weapon tune. So just by tuning weapons around what you have makes things out of tune as a whole. I think moving forward I would just keep what you have and focus more on your map quality and performance as a game as a whole. If this weapon tune was to go permanent tomorrow I'm sure there would be a big back lash by a large amount of players. You have to take in consideration also that when you tune a weapon you have to tune them around players various pings at a particular server level. In other words a weapon should be usable for a wider range of players at different pings or latency. For some reason this is one of your weak points. As other developers seem to do a better job at that H5 seems to be lacking in that department. There is no reason weapons shouldn't perform in a more equal fashion for players across the board even with slightly higher pings or latency. Testing your weapon tunes in house may seem great but once you launch them into the lovely wide web world that seems to fall apart quickly.. Good luck!
I'm going to focus on the BR tune here. While I give you credit for trying to fine tuning weapons the BR is no longer what I would call reliable or predictable. Hit registration is definitely off. And as a starting weapon it by no means fits the category for a starting weapon. Your starting weapon should always be the reliable one or your go to weapon. It no longer fits that as a starter and to be honest if it wasn't a starting weapon and just a weapon one could pick up in a map. You would find that the weapon would be rarely picked up at all. Another issue also is H5 maps and everything else were built around what you already had originally set for your weapon tune. So just by tuning weapons around what you have makes things out of tune as a whole. I think moving forward I would just keep what you have and focus more on your map quality and performance as a game as a whole. If this weapon tune was to go permanent tomorrow I'm sure there would be a big back lash by a large amount of players. You have to take in consideration also that when you tune a weapon you have to tune them around players various pings at a particular server level. In other words a weapon should be usable for a wider range of players at different pings or latency. For some reason this is one of your weak points. As other developers seem to do a better job at that H5 seems to be lacking in that department. There is no reason weapons shouldn't perform in a more equal fashion for players across the board even with slightly higher pings or latency. Testing your weapon tunes in house may seem great but once you launch them into the lovely wide web world that seems to fall apart quickly.. Good luck!
According to your Service Record, you've not played a single game of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist. My advice is to play games to get a feel for how the retuned weapons work, rather than just reading what others have said or watching footage
According to your Service Record, you've not played a single game of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist. My advice is to play games to get a feel for how the retuned weapons work, rather than just reading what others have said or watching footage
He might've been using an alt account while playing. That's what I used for a lot of my testing games.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
According to your Service Record, you've not played a single game of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist. My advice is to play games to get a feel for how the retuned weapons work, rather than just reading what others have said or watching footage
He might've been using an alt account while playing. That's what I used for a lot of my testing games.
That is quite possible
I'm pretty confident in my position now so here it goes

Currently I either want dmr starts or gfm starts if the gfm is buffed to a 4sk-5sk.Nerf the sniper rifle and storm rifle just by reducing bullet magnetism.If there's any magnetism left on the gl, remove it.Cut the br's random spread and instead reduce bullet magnetism.I'd also like to see the AR tweaked in a way that gives it more of a skillgap.

Have the amount of spread gained for the first 3-5 shots be really low, and then have it expoentially increase to what you see here after that.

Have shots fired under a certain spread threshold deal 1.25x damage

Have locational damage: have headshots work even on shields, but also have shots to the arms or legs do only 75% damage. Make the headshot bonus scale inveresly with spreads, so you'll only actually get the full bonus for your first few shots.

Decrease aim assist and bullet magnetism the longer you fire.

Not my ideas for the AR, all credit to jabborwock on Reddit.
I'm going to focus on the BR tune here. While I give you credit for trying to fine tuning weapons the BR is no longer what I would call reliable or predictable. Hit registration is definitely off. And as a starting weapon it by no means fits the category for a starting weapon. Your starting weapon should always be the reliable one or your go to weapon. It no longer fits that as a starter and to be honest if it wasn't a starting weapon and just a weapon one could pick up in a map. You would find that the weapon would be rarely picked up at all. Another issue also is H5 maps and everything else were built around what you already had originally set for your weapon tune. So just by tuning weapons around what you have makes things out of tune as a whole. I think moving forward I would just keep what you have and focus more on your map quality and performance as a game as a whole. If this weapon tune was to go permanent tomorrow I'm sure there would be a big back lash by a large amount of players. You have to take in consideration also that when you tune a weapon you have to tune them around players various pings at a particular server level. In other words a weapon should be usable for a wider range of players at different pings or latency. For some reason this is one of your weak points. As other developers seem to do a better job at that H5 seems to be lacking in that department. There is no reason weapons shouldn't perform in a more equal fashion for players across the board even with slightly higher pings or latency. Testing your weapon tunes in house may seem great but once you launch them into the lovely wide web world that seems to fall apart quickly.. Good luck!
According to your Service Record, you've not played a single game of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist. My advice is to play games to get a feel for how the retuned weapons work, rather than just reading what others have said or watching footage
I never use my main account when it comes to any weapon tuning test. And if you read closely to what I wrote you will find no one else has defined or outlined what I have stated. Or for that matter go into detail on specifics like I have. Focus more on the weapon tuning and not so much as to try and create something out of nothing and assume something to try and fit what you think. It was a good try but lets just stay on topic of the weapon tuning so that H6 will be better. That is my goal and it should be yours also.. I think...
Carnage NB wrote:
Carnage NB wrote:
the nerfed ar takes skill. you have to get really close but because of the new motion tracker, players are able to smartly move their way towards players undetected. I want AR starts just for variety. I dont like starting with 2 precision weapons. and i have to say im enjoying the BR more than the gunfighter magnum.
The AR will never take skill
i read your previous comment, you sound very ignorant and have no idea about game design
You're defending AR's. You're a joke to me.
Well sure there is skill to using the AR properly not just holding down the trigger.
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