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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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just got here from Vetoeds video....everything he says in it is completely true and i share the very same thoughts, seen the majority of people here saying the same things too about the random bullet spread etc etc.....I just hope 343 listens and can come up with reasons behind their changes.
I've played several games of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist and have tried long and hard to come up with a way to describe the feedback I want to give. The one thing that I kept coming back to: I consistently felt like I was getting "blank" shots from precision weapons or just bullets period that would disappear into thin air. I used my Elgato HD 60 capture card to slow down frame-by-frame several clips of gameplay where I felt like I was getting these "blank" shots. What I found astounded me: The bullet spread of most precision weapons is now random. No wonder I'm getting "blank" shots.....because the bullets I'm firing aren't even going where my targeting reticle is placed.

Don't believe me? Want to see proof? I don't even need to make a video about it because a very well-known player already has and he's said everything that I wanted to say, if not more. Please watch Vetoed's "Halo 5 - Weapon Tuning Test Feedback" video on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs1u5MtR5gI

Bottom Line: Weapon tuning for precision headshot-capable weapons should never resort to introducing a random bullet-spread to lessen the effectiveness of the weapons at range. This makes these weapons less skillful to use by making their results on the online battlefield far more random and less predictable. If you're going to nerf most precision headshot-capable weapons in the game please go about it by tweaking aim-assist and bullet magnetism, NOT introducing a random spread. We've already been through that nightmare in Halo 3. We're not trying to backtrack to that era of bullet-spread horrors again.

As far as the automatics go......they still kill you too fast (the SMG being the biggest culprit with the AR and Storm following close behind). I strongly think an individual damage nerf needs to be introduced which increases the number of bullets needed to take down a player's shields (not health) by one bullet.

Regarding the Railgun specifically I feel that the charge time is now too long in order to fire a shot off. Due to the very noticeable charging "sound" the gun makes as well as the bright blue "orb" that appears visually while charging, it makes it very easy for enemy players to simply thrust-dodge your Railgun shot completely. I do agree that lengthening the charge-time of the Railgun is a good change, but not as much as it is currently in the playlist.

Thank you guys for reading my feedback and for trying to make Halo 5 a better game. I look forward to you listening to the community and more specifically: To those of us providing feedback with more educated and precise descriptions of the changes we want to see take place and with solid reasoning behind what we say.
Please removed the random spread on the BR, while I've gotten used to the new tuning it makes the game less skillful and more random chance. Also 343 if you haven't already please watch Vetoed's video on youtube for some ideas on how to proceed, even if you decide not to do something different his ideas sound like they could be very beneficial.
Ok, even if it sucks i gave the playlist another go and here's my thoughts:
  1. This BR is the worst ever seen on Halo. Even a box of kittens is more consistent.
  2. The gunfighter mag is just as useful as a...can't find a comparison, it's just a useless weapon.
  3. "The railgun will require more skill and tactic to use" they said, so they turned the charging time up to 15 minutes. If you're under pressure and you have a railgun it's pretty much like trying to turn off hell with a glass of water.
  4. The grenade launcher is the best weapon in the whole playlist. It's like throwing remote controlled bouncing rockets at your enemies.
  5. So..uhm...you really think that Torque CTF or Stasis Strongholds are good gametypes? Personally I just quit the game every time i see them.
  6. The AR and SMG changes are fine but at mid/close range those weapons are just devastating as f***.
  7. I like the fact that players holding a sword are no more moving 100 km/h.
  8. Breaking news, THE ACTIVE CAMO ACTUALLY MAKES PLAYERS INVISIBLE NOW. That's a big progress 343. I just felt like enemy players were able to see me anyways with the previous camo.
Overall i think this test is just useless. Even if you change something people will complain about the changes so it's just no-sense.
1. So what if it's not the God gun from the last 13 years. I'm so glad it's ordinary now.

2. I kick -Yoink- with the gunfighter. It kills faster than the br if you can land your shots but takes more skill. Excellent tradeoff.

3. Most guns got a nerf so the rail gun is in line with the other weapons. It's not a free kill like it is normally.

4. Yeah I would be for removing its OSK ability but increasing its blast radius to be more like an ultra powered plasma Pistol.

5. CTF is fun though.

6.they should be amazing up close. No precision weapon should ever beat an automatic at close range. Ever. Unless grenades are involved.

7. Yep

8. Not sure how I feel about this
I've played several games of the Weapon Tuning Test playlist and have tried long and hard to come up with a way to describe the feedback I want to give. The one thing that I kept coming back to: I consistently felt like I was getting "blank" shots from precision weapons or just bullets period that would disappear into thin air. I used my Elgato HD 60 capture card to slow down frame-by-frame several clips of gameplay where I felt like I was getting these "blank" shots. What I found astounded me: The bullet spread of most precision weapons is now random. No wonder I'm getting "blank" shots.....because the bullets I'm firing aren't even going where my targeting reticle is placed.

Don't believe me? Want to see proof? I don't even need to make a video about it because a very well-known player already has and he's said everything that I wanted to say, if not more. Please watch Vetoed's "Halo 5 - Weapon Tuning Test Feedback" video on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs1u5MtR5gI

Bottom Line: Weapon tuning for precision headshot-capable weapons should never resort to introducing a random bullet-spread to lessen the effectiveness of the weapons at range. This makes these weapons less skillful to use by making their results on the online battlefield far more random and less predictable. If you're going to nerf most precision headshot-capable weapons in the game please go about it by tweaking aim-assist and bullet magnetism, NOT introducing a random spread. We've already been through that nightmare in Halo 3. We're not trying to backtrack to that era of bullet-spread horrors again.

As far as the automatics go......they still kill you too fast (the SMG being the biggest culprit with the AR following close behind). I strongly thing an individualt damage nerf needs to be introduced vs player shields alone (not health).

Regarding the Railgun specifically I feel that the charge time is now too long in order to fire a shot off. Due to the very noticeable charging "sound" the gun makes as well as the bright blue "orb" that appears visually while charging, it makes it very easy for enemy players to simply thrust-dodge your Railgun shot completely. I do agree that lengthening the charge-time of the Railgun is a good change, but not as much as it is currently in the playlist.

Thank you guys for reading my feedback and for trying to make Halo 5 a better game. I look forward to you listening to the community and more specifically: To those of us providing feedback with more educated and precise descriptions of the changes we want to see take place and with solid reasoning behind what we say.
I think there should just be damage drop off more than random spread.

Automatics are fine though. I hate it that you guys want those guns to be utterly useless. Autos have never been overpowered in the history of Halo. It's just a struggle to keep them from being unusable. Nerf the smg and AR as they are now and nobody in their right mind sold use them.
Shartemis wrote:
I think there should just be damage drop off more than random spread.

Automatics are fine though. I hate it that you guys want those guns to be utterly useless. Autos have never been overpowered in the history of Halo. It's just a struggle to keep them from being unusable. Nerf the smg and AR as they are now and nobody in their right mind sold use them.
Damage drop-off? You want to further distinguish range differences between precision weapons by reducing damage for the players that are good enough to hit long range shots? No thanks. We don't need to make the sniper more powerful than what it already is with the excessive bullet magnetism.

Have you forgotten the current iteration of autos in H5? They are absolutely overpowered in their usage with the insane damage at close range. Don't even bother bringing up the rock-paper-scissors argument in which "It's a CQC weapon. It should always win in close range against precision weapons," because all you're asking is for a dull sandbox with no chance for counterplay. The ratio between ease of use and damage is way off-balanced in the casuals' favor, allowing you to kill quickly without requiring the necessary aim for that kill. We're looking to allevaiate that by still allowing a chance for good precision weapon players to completely outclass auto users.

If 343 really wants useful autos that don't compromise the skill gap, then they should look toward CE and experiment with stun effects for the storm rifle and different melee properties per weapon. We didn't need so many autos anyway.
Shartemis wrote:
Ok, even if it sucks i gave the playlist another go and here's my thoughts:
  1. This BR is the worst ever seen on Halo. Even a box of kittens is more consistent.
  2. The gunfighter mag is just as useful as a...can't find a comparison, it's just a useless weapon.
  3. "The railgun will require more skill and tactic to use" they said, so they turned the charging time up to 15 minutes. If you're under pressure and you have a railgun it's pretty much like trying to turn off hell with a glass of water.
  4. The grenade launcher is the best weapon in the whole playlist. It's like throwing remote controlled bouncing rockets at your enemies.
  5. So..uhm...you really think that Torque CTF or Stasis Strongholds are good gametypes? Personally I just quit the game every time i see them.
  6. The AR and SMG changes are fine but at mid/close range those weapons are just devastating as f***.
  7. I like the fact that players holding a sword are no more moving 100 km/h.
  8. Breaking news, THE ACTIVE CAMO ACTUALLY MAKES PLAYERS INVISIBLE NOW. That's a big progress 343. I just felt like enemy players were able to see me anyways with the previous camo.
Overall i think this test is just useless. Even if you change something people will complain about the changes so it's just no-sense.
1. So what if it's not the God gun from the last 13 years. I'm so glad it's ordinary now.

2. I kick -Yoink- with the gunfighter. It kills faster than the br if you can land your shots but takes more skill. Excellent tradeoff.

3. Most guns got a nerf so the rail gun is in line with the other weapons. It's not a free kill like it is normally.

4. Yeah I would be for removing its OSK ability but increasing its blast radius to be more like an ultra powered plasma Pistol.

5. CTF is fun though.

6.they should be amazing up close. No precision weapon should ever beat an automatic at close range. Ever. Unless grenades are involved.

7. Yep

8. Not sure how I feel about this
Well if you play against higher level players, when every shot counts the BR is just not reliable.
Played a few more games trying to use the gunfighter and think it is actually more useful than the BR.
The railgun is just no more a power weapon. And i noticed that nobody even tries to pick it up. Just played a diamond/onyx tier game on stronghold stasis, not a single railgun kill in the whole game...
I know that automatics should be amazing at close distance but if you use it at mid range it still works too good.
I haven't played the playlist personally but I've seen/read enough to formulate an opinion. I don't agree with adding a random bullet spread to precision weapons. It makes your shot more "luck-based" than "skill-based." Precision weapons are named so because they're supposed to be accurate. They can't be accurate if they have a random bullet spread. It'll be nigh impossible---and in fact is---to hit headshots like that. I'm in favor of tweaking the aim assist and bullet magnetism. Vetoed's video pretty much sums up my thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs1u5MtR5gI
keep the normal BR not the tweaked one. there was an afk and even when I was zoomed in it took about 6 triggers to finish him off at medium range. and some of the BR shots don't even hit. The changes on the Gunfighter Magnum are great so far, it was a much better improvement than the normal one non tweaked, I can actually land shots now :).
TryHardFan wrote:
Shartemis wrote:
I think there should just be damage drop off more than random spread.

Automatics are fine though. I hate it that you guys want those guns to be utterly useless. Autos have never been overpowered in the history of Halo. It's just a struggle to keep them from being unusable. Nerf the smg and AR as they are now and nobody in their right mind sold use them.
Damage drop-off? You want to further distinguish range differences between precision weapons by reducing damage for the players that are good enough to hit long range shots? No thanks. We don't need to make the sniper more powerful than what it already is with the excessive bullet magnetism.

Have you forgotten the current iteration of autos in H5? They are absolutely overpowered in their usage with the insane damage at close range. Don't even bother bringing up the rock-paper-scissors argument in which "It's a CQC weapon. It should always win in close range against precision weapons," because all you're asking is for a dull sandbox with no chance for counterplay. The ratio between ease of use and damage is way off-balanced in the casuals' favor, allowing you to kill quickly without requiring the necessary aim for that kill. We're looking to allevaiate that by still allowing a chance for good precision weapon players to completely outclass auto users.

If 343 really wants useful autos that don't compromise the skill gap, then they should look toward CE and experiment with stun effects for the storm rifle and different melee properties per weapon. We didn't need so many autos anyway.
Solution for the sniper: nerf aim assist and magnetism to make it less powerful. This game is 10x more fun when only certain weapons can hit targets across the map. I love the choice. Br is only good at med range? Get a dmr if you want to cross map people. Me? I love using the smg but it's easy to get killed because once they are out of bounds, that's it.

It doesn't matter what weapon you use. If you are more skilled, you will win the match.
Shartemis wrote:
Ok, even if it sucks i gave the playlist another go and here's my thoughts:
  1. This BR is the worst ever seen on Halo. Even a box of kittens is more consistent.
  2. The gunfighter mag is just as useful as a...can't find a comparison, it's just a useless weapon.
  3. "The railgun will require more skill and tactic to use" they said, so they turned the charging time up to 15 minutes. If you're under pressure and you have a railgun it's pretty much like trying to turn off hell with a glass of water.
  4. The grenade launcher is the best weapon in the whole playlist. It's like throwing remote controlled bouncing rockets at your enemies.
  5. So..uhm...you really think that Torque CTF or Stasis Strongholds are good gametypes? Personally I just quit the game every time i see them.
  6. The AR and SMG changes are fine but at mid/close range those weapons are just devastating as f***.
  7. I like the fact that players holding a sword are no more moving 100 km/h.
  8. Breaking news, THE ACTIVE CAMO ACTUALLY MAKES PLAYERS INVISIBLE NOW. That's a big progress 343. I just felt like enemy players were able to see me anyways with the previous camo.
Overall i think this test is just useless. Even if you change something people will complain about the changes so it's just no-sense.
1. So what if it's not the God gun from the last 13 years. I'm so glad it's ordinary now.

2. I kick -Yoink- with the gunfighter. It kills faster than the br if you can land your shots but takes more skill. Excellent tradeoff.

3. Most guns got a nerf so the rail gun is in line with the other weapons. It's not a free kill like it is normally.

4. Yeah I would be for removing its OSK ability but increasing its blast radius to be more like an ultra powered plasma Pistol.

5. CTF is fun though.

6.they should be amazing up close. No precision weapon should ever beat an automatic at close range. Ever. Unless grenades are involved.

7. Yep

8. Not sure how I feel about this
Well if you play against higher level players, when every shot counts the BR is just not reliable.
Played a few more games trying to use the gunfighter and think it is actually more useful than the BR.
The railgun is just no more a power weapon. And i noticed that nobody even tries to pick it up. Just played a diamond/onyx tier game on stronghold stasis, not a single railgun kill in the whole game...
I know that automatics should be amazing at close distance but if you use it at mid range it still works too good.
That hasn't happened with me. Burst firing the AR is a difficult thing to since it has way less sun assist now so if it killed you a med range, you deserve it.
I've only got 10 games in so far but the BR is completely broken now. I haven't even touched the GF magnum out of principal. Req/silenced weapons have no place in Arena period. 8 out of 10 games were CTF on either Coliseum or Torque so not exactly a diverse test thus far. Seems kind of pointless to me! I wish 343 would pick a weapon and map layout and just stick with it instead of changing -Yoink- up all the time!!!
I have played 30 or 40 weapon tuning playlist games including the one Vetoed featured at the end of his video. Everything he says is on point. I think this update is a step backwards for a number of reasons. First the BR is just not good whether it's the spread or whatever it is not good I have 4 or 5 videos where it should have been an easy perfect and wasn't for an unknown reason. Second as he and other people have said it makes things like storm rifle and sniper even more god like. I can't imagine playing WZ or WZA with this BR it would be maddening. I get that the BR now feels like a Halo 3 BR but given the movement of H5 i.e. sprint, thrust, spartan charge and ground pound you can't have a weapon that misses for no good reason. I check the stats alot after each game and in many of my games teammates and opponents were as low as 30-35% in accuracy. Is that what people want a gun that only hits one-third of the time. if the game had launched with this BR I think it would be o.k. but to change to it now seems to me like a bad idea.
Yes the BR feels weird. Everything is ok besides that
The BR is extremely weak against autos. The autos were hardly touched in the test and they are still too over powered. The BR is very inconsistent and not accurate anymore. It used to be called the 'easy gun' now it's impossible to use correctly.
I feel like the recoil on the gunfighter magnum and BR are too much. I love the new spread of the BR and I think it will make BTB actually fun.

My experience with the Fuel Rod canon has been way worse now after the updates. I don't know what changed but it seems like the blast radius is even bigger than before. I have died in one shot without getting a direct hit, but before the update, the only way to get a one shot kill was a direct hit.

I absolutely love the changes to Torque. This is how the map should have been from the beginning. This map has been my second least favorite map in the whole game, only after Orion. There weren't enough ways to get from the bottom level to the upper level. Opening up the pistons up to the sides of the map and from bottom mid to top mid solves this issue. Now it is a very enjoyable map.

I can't figure out what the difference is with Active Camo but I have had more people see me now than would see me before the update. Call me crazy but if they were trying to buff Camo, then that seems like the opposite of what they were going for.
since i hadnt played matchmaking in like over a year, ive only just learnt the ability tracker radar was added months ago. doh! i really love the new radar, it makes sprint make sense among other benefits. i really want them to add the radar to all modes.
The BR feels so inconsistent. Sometimes I got a four shot, other times it took 8-12 shots, almost like this new BR doesn't work properly. I've heard talks of them trying to make it like the H3 BR. That's fine and all, I loved that game, but let's make it as consistent as possible.
First i would like to say halo's been a very consistent game until this playlist which basically shows how much u guys can screw up a game in one instance. The br now has a shake feature that shoots random shots which completely ruins the gun itself. I also believe u reduced damage as if others player can no longer get perfect. The perfect system was a reward for player with pristine aim and accuracy. Taking that away ruins every playlist and will reduce amount of ppl who play halo. I thought the weapons tuning test playlist would have a change as to wear the brs left untouched but diffrent smart link mechanics. The rate u get hit and able to smart link back into a snap is too fast so reversals our easy 2 overcome. I thought u guys would change the sniper rifle neck shot mechanics when a spartan is shot between the body and head. Another bad idea u guys had was the gunfighter magnum. The recoil is increased and is also random spread just like the br. Also the Keypoint u guys founded on in halo 5 was accuracy. A game based on headshots. With a weaker gun headshots no longer matter. There was multiple accounts where ppl said 2 nerf autos. U guys havent touched them at all. Nerfed the precisions. What are u guys doing ? The carbine also has a random spread and decreased range accuracy. The railgun now has no shot cancel and takes way to long to charge up and shoot. It now has to fully charge to shoot. Their is no inbetween cancel to shoot faster. The rail gun was my favorite weapon until what u guys did with it. I hope none of these changes are applied to the game or it will severely die. Including my perspectives. I will no longer play halo if this update is applied. The weapons we asked 2 be nerfed werent nerfed and u did ur own thing and nerfed precisons. The only precision that needed a nerf was the carbine and that was for shot speed and damage. Not making everything a random spread in the game. Hopefully u guys get this message and understand u guys aren't doing what the community asked for. Why ruin a game that was fine. Think about ur decision. Later
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