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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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Ok before I tell my opinions about the modifications, I wanna do a question, Why 343 did this? because this is not for improve Halo 5, I think all the players was fine with the weapons, then the only reason for do this is for TEST new things for Halo 6, Because that changes have a lot of work for 343, then If you wanna improve Halo 5, you would put new gametypes or arms, but no, you Dont wanna improve Halo 5, 343 just want to do experiments with Halo 5 for Halo 6, but Well that is not bad, the bad thing is that they no longer want to dedicate time to Halo 5.

Well about the modifications:
BR: Is slower and weaker
Gunfighter: is better now, I think is more accurate
SMG: is a little weaker, no much difference
DMR: a little imprecise in close battle
A few things:
The Battle Rifle is just a tad too weak. It's supposed to be more accurate and powerful than the magnum, but comparing the new BR to the Magnum in the Slayer playlist, I'm not sure I would want to pick up a BR if given the opportunity anymore. Maybe if the bullet magnetism was a bit more powerful, it would make it just enough better than the two people in an AR/Magnum starts arena game would definitely have an advantage. Also, please return the Team Arena starts to AR/Magnum after the tuning update. Even though the BR is weaker, having 8 of them on the map at the same time is rediculous.

The gunfighter magnum is tricky. If you can aim well at very short range, it is a great weapon with the 18 bullet magazine. Granted I like the Assault Rifle more, but I have had moderate success with it. Still make it a weapon to pick up, not standard starts.

The radar is awful. It's criminal to make walking at full speed undetectable. One of my favorite strategies, playing ring-around-the-rosie (hiding behind a tall, thin obstacle and running around so my enemy can't see me until my shield is up) is completely useless. Now it only takes sprinting and firing to alert the radar, and with the 18m range, someone can sprint at you from behind and spartan charge you before you know what hit you. Every Halo game has made walking set off the radar. Why change now?

The Railgun is great. The longer charge time makes it harder to keep the reticule on your opponent at close range, so it feels just about right at long range. I wouldn't mind it if the zoom brought you in a bit closer though.

The sword is a bit harder to use now, but with it only on two maps and the tendency for someone to get a spree with it doesn't really give me enough time to really get the feel for it. Honestly if the zoomed lunge was just a foot or two closer than it was before the test it'd be good.

Active Camo is definitely a more effective, and I have noticed a significant advantage of someone with it. I was able to sneak from immediately in front of someone to behind and beat them down much more often. It was much more difficult to kill a player with camo up close, because if they showed themselves it was hard to consistently aim at them. I'd say to keep it how it is in the test.

I have noticed that the DMR is less effective the closer it gets, but it is still good at long range. If I were to make one suggestion, it would to be lessen the ttk to make it equal to the BR (if it isn't already) because if I'm firing at long range my target can't usually get behind a wall before I can get the kill.

Any other weapons that I haven't mentioned that got tuned were either not available enough on the maps to get a feel for or not tuned enough that I can tell a difference.

One more thing about the sandbox in general. The overshield is great. You get two extra shields worth of protection, so it is very effective when you are only facing one or two people. However, it think that every single map that has an overshield should have at least one plasma weapon to pick up. Because as it is, someone with OS can walk up and kill anybody easily. But if they happened to attack someone with a plasma weapon, they can suddenly die quite quickly. Puts a bit more balancing on it. The power up itself is good. Don't change it. Just add more plasma weapons.

Thanks 343 for letting us help you tune the sandbox so hopefully we can all enjoy it!
Haven't played H5 for a while, but decided I ought to try this out and weigh in. Just finished all my placement matches for the weapon test (Plat 4 for those who care), so I have some initial thoughts for the starting weapons and radar:

BR: Can definitely feel the range nerf - the range at which I feel comfortable in securing a kill with it has reduced noticeably, to the point where I don't bother using it outside of hipfire RRR unless I'm cleaning up oneshot targets. While this isn't a drastic change from how I personally play with the original BR, I can understand many of the complaints made here. Personally, it feels a little too unreliable at range, but so far I don't have many complaints about its close range performance. Again, though, only did my placement matches so this is subject to change.

GFM: Having used the Gunfighter fairly frequently in Warzone before, the tuned Gunfighter seems a little all over the place. The increased magazine size is welcome, and the bloom is certainly doing its job to curb its range, but I'm finding it a bit weird to use. Might just simply be due to my shot deteriorating or the increased lag I've been feeling in these matches. Will need to use more to get a more complete impression.

Radar: The increased stealth capability has definitely changed how I play. Before I would just sprint everywhere since normal movement gets me detected anyway - now I walk most of the time to maintain stealth and improve awareness, slowing my gameplay pace significantly. As someone that enjoys trying to flank and outmaneuver the opponent, I enjoy this change - it provides a different sort of experience. Would I want it in every playlist? Maybe not - variety is nice.

I did go into these matches having read many responses on here, so these assessments may have a slight bit of prior bias. That said, I seem to share the opinion most have regarding the BR - too unreliable at longer ranges. I'm not too fussed about its short range performance, but it is definitely worth evaluating how it compares to other elements of the sandbox that didn't get changed e.g. the Magnum - too much of an imbalance at close range between the Magnum and BR might make the BR feel obsolete, given the short range nature of H5 Arena, and reducing its longer range capability to the degree seen here definitely won't help.

Will log maybe another twenty or so games before giving a more comprehensive verdict.
AMillz44 wrote:
I think this is something a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and band wagon opinions. I'd like to see people take more time to play and adapt to the new weapon tuning instead of trying to play the same way they've played in the past.

If a room full of people are thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking. As someone who's played the playlist a bit, I can say I disagree with any notion that weapons are "broken."

There are things that can be tweaked for sure though. But it has to start with open and honest gameplay.
I played over 100 games with the tuned weapons. I tried to like them, I really really did. But they just feel awful to shoot, even after getting used to them. If H5 had played like this in the beta, I wouldn't have even thought about buying the game. And I feel halo 6 play solo like this I won't buy it. It feels awful to me with these tunes precision weapons.

Please please at at least keep the H5 magnum as the centerpiece, and consider making it the same for H6, but focus on new maps and game types. You guys totally nailed that gun, It just feels amazing to shoot. , and satisfying to PK someone.
Love it except for the BR.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not repost content a moderator has removed, repost a topic that has been locked, or post about forum moderation decisions. If you have a question or concern about a forum moderation decision, please private message the applicable moderator.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
What I don't like about fan feedback on things like this is they are inherently bias. Most players don't understand game balance or really even care if a game is balanced as long as it's benefiting them. That's why so many people liked the AR before, and it's why so many people dislike the BR changes now. Try and look at this as objectively as possible.

The BR is not supposed to be as good as it was before after these changes. It needs a nerf if it is going to move into a starting weapon spot. Lowering auto-aim wouldn't really do anything to affect it's long range potential. Good players would still be able to cross map. Spread is a perfect tool for limiting a weapons long range effectiveness at all skill levels. That's the primary goal of the nerf, to reduce the BR's effectiveness outside of its intended ranges. Changing auto-aim and bullet magnetism would only have an effect on lower skill players. That's not the goal. High level play would just be cross mapping people with the BR.
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
AMillz44 wrote:
I think this is something a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and band wagon opinions. I'd like to see people take more time to play and adapt to the new weapon tuning instead of trying to play the same way they've played in the past.

If a room full of people are thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking. As someone who's played the playlist a bit, I can say I disagree with any notion that weapons are "broken."

There are things that can be tweaked for sure though. But it has to start with open and honest gameplay.
I played over 100 games with the tuned weapons. I tried to like them, I really really did. But they just feel awful to shoot, even after getting used to them. If H5 had played like this in the beta, I wouldn't have even thought about buying the game. And I feel halo 6 play solo like this I won't buy it. It feels awful to me with these tunes precision weapons.

Please please at at least keep the H5 magnum as the centerpiece, and consider making it the same for H6, but focus on new maps and game types. You guys totally nailed that gun, It just feels amazing to shoot. , and satisfying to PK someone.
So you're saying the BR doesn't suck now? Because it does.
Haven't played H5 for a while, but decided I ought to try this out and weigh in. Just finished all my placement matches for the weapon test (Plat 4 for those who care), so I have some initial thoughts for the starting weapons and radar:

BR: Can definitely feel the range nerf - the range at which I feel comfortable in securing a kill with it has reduced noticeably, to the point where I don't bother using it outside of hipfire RRR unless I'm cleaning up oneshot targets. While this isn't a drastic change from how I personally play with the original BR, I can understand many of the complaints made here. Personally, it feels a little too unreliable at range, but so far I don't have many complaints about its close range performance. Again, though, only did my placement matches so this is subject to change.

GFM: Having used the Gunfighter fairly frequently in Warzone before, the tuned Gunfighter seems a little all over the place. The increased magazine size is welcome, and the bloom is certainly doing its job to curb its range, but I'm finding it a bit weird to use. Might just simply be due to my shot deteriorating or the increased lag I've been feeling in these matches. Will need to use more to get a more complete impression.

Radar: The increased stealth capability has definitely changed how I play. Before I would just sprint everywhere since normal movement gets me detected anyway - now I walk most of the time to maintain stealth and improve awareness, slowing my gameplay pace significantly. As someone that enjoys trying to flank and outmaneuver the opponent, I enjoy this change - it provides a different sort of experience. Would I want it in every playlist? Maybe not - variety is nice.

I did go into these matches having read many responses on here, so these assessments may have a slight bit of prior bias. That said, I seem to share the opinion most have regarding the BR - too unreliable at longer ranges. I'm not too fussed about its short range performance, but it is definitely worth evaluating how it compares to other elements of the sandbox that didn't get changed e.g. the Magnum - too much of an imbalance at close range between the Magnum and BR might make the BR feel obsolete, given the short range nature of H5 Arena, and reducing its longer range capability to the degree seen here definitely won't help.

Will log maybe another twenty or so games before giving a more comprehensive verdict.
As people learn the new weapons they will stop trying to use the BR outside of its new intended range. It's just a learning thing. So many people are used to the BR being a pseudo-power weapon in this game that bringing it down to where it should be is going to make the weapon feel worse (because it is) and leave a bad taste in their mouths, even if the game is better off for it.
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
......... that's what I thought, but then I played a Slayer match and I swear I hit this guy 6 times and he got away. Even 6 body shots should have killed him. I'm gonna shrug and say "lag". Or maybe the spread caused part of a burst to miss or something leaving a smidge of health remaining, I don't know.

I do like the feel of the BR now. It feels like the H2 BR (has that slower rhythmic chug to it instead of those sharp staccato punctuated blats). I've gotten pretty solid with the Gunfighter Magnum, but the Halo 5 Magnum is one of the best guns 343 ever made ... I think they should go back. Kills with the SMG don't feel cheap now, I feel like I have to earn them: strafing, a sideways thrust or two ... I do like the SMG nerf. I don't like what they did to the Grenade Launcher or Railgun. There are a couple improvements, but overall, I think I prefer how things were.
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
......... that's what I thought, but then I played a Slayer match and I swear I hit this guy 6 times and he got away. Even 6 body shots should have killed him. I'm gonna shrug and say "lag". Or maybe the spread caused part of a burst to miss or something leaving a smidge of health remaining, I don't know.

I do like the feel of the BR now. It feels like the H2 BR. I've gotten pretty solid with the Gunfighter Magnum, but the Halo 5 Magnum is one of the best guns 343 ever made ... I think they should go back. Kills with the SMG don't feel cheap now, I feel like I have to earn them: strafing, a sideways thrust or two ... I do like the SMG nerf. I don't like what they did to the Grenade Launcher or Railgun. So overall, I think I prefer how things were.
The increased burst time means that you have to keep your reticle on people longer to hit all 3 bullets. If you were in RRR the spread shouldn't have been an issue. Steady aim is more important now. This is something that people are blaming the spread for, but isn't the spreads fault.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
AMillz44 wrote:
I think this is something a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and band wagon opinions. I'd like to see people take more time to play and adapt to the new weapon tuning instead of trying to play the same way they've played in the past.

If a room full of people are thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking. As someone who's played the playlist a bit, I can say I disagree with any notion that weapons are "broken."

There are things that can be tweaked for sure though. But it has to start with open and honest gameplay.
I played over 100 games with the tuned weapons. I tried to like them, I really really did. But they just feel awful to shoot, even after getting used to them. If H5 had played like this in the beta, I wouldn't have even thought about buying the game. And I feel halo 6 play solo like this I won't buy it. It feels awful to me with these tunes precision weapons.

Please please at at least keep the H5 magnum as the centerpiece, and consider making it the same for H6, but focus on new maps and game types. You guys totally nailed that gun, It just feels amazing to shoot. , and satisfying to PK someone.
Ok So first off i hope you don't mind but i looked at your service record. I personally think these changes are far too much. I just wanted to use someones decently ranked service record instead of my own bias record. You actually played 152 games in the new playlist, You have 974 Br kills and only 35 magnum out of 1533 in total. Your total kills is 62229 and your weapon of destruction is the magnum with 18900 kills in all playlists. So it shows how drastically 343 has changed this playlist. You played 21 games in slayer this season with 48 magnum and 27 br kills. So if 343 was concerned with the br previously been overpowered its now been used exclusively?? We all have grown to love br and magnum and now its changed completely. With most peoples record it shows how Most people hate the GF magnum or how useless it is. Like i have said after a game its basically the br with the most kills. Its now more of a destruction weapon than ever not that its better now. Bring back the old magnum start with this new Br so we can compare the 2 only for the testing because people are hardly using the GF.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
Spoiler:
Show
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
......... that's what I thought, but then I played a Slayer match and I swear I hit this guy 6 times and he got away. Even 6 body shots should have killed him. I'm gonna shrug and say "lag". Or maybe the spread caused part of a burst to miss or something leaving a smidge of health remaining, I don't know.

I do like the feel of the BR now. It feels like the H2 BR. I've gotten pretty solid with the Gunfighter Magnum, but the Halo 5 Magnum is one of the best guns 343 ever made ... I think they should go back. Kills with the SMG don't feel cheap now, I feel like I have to earn them: strafing, a sideways thrust or two ... I do like the SMG nerf. I don't like what they did to the Grenade Launcher or Railgun. So overall, I think I prefer how things were.
The increased burst time means that you have to keep your reticle on people longer to hit all 3 bullets. If you were in RRR the spread shouldn't have been an issue. Steady aim is more important now. This is something that people are blaming the spread for, but isn't the spreads fault.
Oh, so that's what it is. Ok. That makes sense. So kinda like Halo 3 (minus the projectile aspect) where you need to pay a lot more attention to where your reticle is. No more of this firing aimlessly and getting headshots by surprise ... so we should definitely not be hearing people complaining about how this makes the game less skillful. If anything, making the BR more challenging by requiring you to to focus and aim carefully does the opposite. No more running around like your helmet is a magnet sucking in BR rounds from across the map. I wonder if they should test this in a few BTB maps. Maybe it'll make large maps more tolerable traversing on foot without KD padding campers picking you off from the other side of place with a BR. Leave a DMR or Lightrifle on the map for that.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
AMillz44 wrote:
I think this is something a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and band wagon opinions. I'd like to see people take more time to play and adapt to the new weapon tuning instead of trying to play the same way they've played in the past.

If a room full of people are thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking. As someone who's played the playlist a bit, I can say I disagree with any notion that weapons are "broken."

There are things that can be tweaked for sure though. But it has to start with open and honest gameplay.
I played over 100 games with the tuned weapons. I tried to like them, I really really did. But they just feel awful to shoot, even after getting used to them. If H5 had played like this in the beta, I wouldn't have even thought about buying the game. And I feel halo 6 play solo like this I won't buy it. It feels awful to me with these tunes precision weapons.

Please please at at least keep the H5 magnum as the centerpiece, and consider making it the same for H6, but focus on new maps and game types. You guys totally nailed that gun, It just feels amazing to shoot. , and satisfying to PK someone.
H5 Magnum was overpowered, as was the BR. You see it in competitive and casual play. I'd like for it's range to be reduced by a lot, BR for mid range, and DMR for long range. Instead of having them all blend together and thus make the choice of weapon less impactful.
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
......... that's what I thought, but then I played a Slayer match and I swear I hit this guy 6 times and he got away. Even 6 body shots should have killed him. I'm gonna shrug and say "lag". Or maybe the spread caused part of a burst to miss or something leaving a smidge of health remaining, I don't know.

I do like the feel of the BR now. It feels like the H2 BR. I've gotten pretty solid with the Gunfighter Magnum, but the Halo 5 Magnum is one of the best guns 343 ever made ... I think they should go back. Kills with the SMG don't feel cheap now, I feel like I have to earn them: strafing, a sideways thrust or two ... I do like the SMG nerf. I don't like what they did to the Grenade Launcher or Railgun. So overall, I think I prefer how things were.
The increased burst time means that you have to keep your reticle on people longer to hit all 3 bullets. If you were in RRR the spread shouldn't have been an issue. Steady aim is more important now. This is something that people are blaming the spread for, but isn't the spreads fault.
Oh, so that's what it is. Ok. That makes sense. So kinda like Halo 3 (minus the projectile aspect) where you need to pay a lot more attention to where your reticle is. No more of this firing aimlessly and getting headshots by surprise ... so we should definitely not be hearing people complaining about how this makes the game less skillful. If anything, making the BR more challenging by requiring you to to focus and aim carefully. No more running around like your helmet is a magnet sucking in BR rounds from across the map. I wonder if they should test this in a few BTB maps. Maybe it'll make large maps more tolerable traversing on foot without KD padding campers picking you off from the other side of place with a BR. Leave a DMR or Lightrifle on the map for that.
EXACTLY! I really do think that pushing the changes through right now would help the game a lot. People are just too used to being able to dominate with the BR that any nerf is going to make the weapon feel bad to them. BTB should feel a lot better with these changes, and it adds more weapon depth by segmenting the ranges more. The effectiveness of the BR never really had a drop off before. These changes make it a threat at close-mid range, but significantly lower its power at long, giving a reason to pick up other weapons.
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still 4.
......... that's what I thought, but then I played a Slayer match and I swear I hit this guy 6 times and he got away. Even 6 body shots should have killed him. I'm gonna shrug and say "lag". Or maybe the spread caused part of a burst to miss or something leaving a smidge of health remaining, I don't know.

I do like the feel of the BR now. It feels like the H2 BR (has that slower rhythmic chug to it instead of those sharp staccato punctuated blats). I've gotten pretty solid with the Gunfighter Magnum, but the Halo 5 Magnum is one of the best guns 343 ever made ... I think they should go back. Kills with the SMG don't feel cheap now, I feel like I have to earn them: strafing, a sideways thrust or two ... I do like the SMG nerf. I don't like what they did to the Grenade Launcher or Railgun. There are a couple improvements, but overall, I think I prefer how things were.
You will shoot a guy 5-6 times to kill and that's due to individual bullets missing due to the addition of random spread. Basically like the H3 BR and its spread
DbnpoiZN wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
AMillz44 wrote:
I think this is something a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of knee jerk reactions and band wagon opinions. I'd like to see people take more time to play and adapt to the new weapon tuning instead of trying to play the same way they've played in the past.

If a room full of people are thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking. As someone who's played the playlist a bit, I can say I disagree with any notion that weapons are "broken."

There are things that can be tweaked for sure though. But it has to start with open and honest gameplay.
I played over 100 games with the tuned weapons. I tried to like them, I really really did. But they just feel awful to shoot, even after getting used to them. If H5 had played like this in the beta, I wouldn't have even thought about buying the game. And I feel halo 6 play solo like this I won't buy it. It feels awful to me with these tunes precision weapons.

Please please at at least keep the H5 magnum as the centerpiece, and consider making it the same for H6, but focus on new maps and game types. You guys totally nailed that gun, It just feels amazing to shoot. , and satisfying to PK someone.
Ok So first off i hope you don't mind but i looked at your service record. I personally think these changes are far too much. I just wanted to use someones decently ranked service record instead of my own bias record. You actually played 152 games in the new playlist, You have 974 Br kills and only 35 magnum out of 1533 in total. Your total kills is 62229 and your weapon of destruction is the magnum with 18900 kills in all playlists. So it shows how drastically 343 has changed this playlist. You played 21 games in slayer this season with 48 magnum and 27 br kills. So if 343 was concerned with the br previously been overpowered its now been used exclusively?? We all have grown to love br and magnum and now its changed completely. With most peoples record it shows how Most people hate the GF magnum or how useless it is. Like i have said after a game its basically the br with the most kills. Its now more of a destruction weapon than ever not that its better now. Bring back the old magnum start with this new Br so we can compare the 2 only for the testing because people are hardly using the GF.
Ok so i had a look at my own season, Arena with 43 games, 136 Br kills and 13 magnum, Slayer with 107 games and 107 br kills and 99 magnum kills, I have 3939 Br kills in total and 3818 magnum in total. I love both guns the way they were. I always seek out the Br in games because i like the fact that it takes less shots to kill and my record shows. So in the new arena the Gf just does not fit for me. I also like to constantly pick up different guns and use different guns in all games, mostly arena games, sometimes having 16 kills and most used weapon of destruction 3 because i dont just use 1 gun, but with the new playlist i see most people using only a couple of guns. Very big change
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