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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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The smg didn't feel right. I found the gunfighter pistol and AR to be more reliable to getting a kill than using it.
After playing 20 plus games on the weapon tuning playlist, I feel the changes are good and bad. imo the autos are good, (although I think the bloom should have been added at the end off a long burst, not initial burst) but the precision weapons (battle rifle) just feel off. Why not just adjust the red reticle ranges, and bullet magnetism for changing the accuracy at distances close and far? I feel 2 years into the game everyone is conditioned to the weapons characteristics already. the changes are really just late imo. I would say in my 20 games, about 11 of them ended with more than 2 or 3 players quitting out early. idk like I said I like the fact that 343 is looking into this information and trying to implement there loads and loads of data over the years, but I think adjusting the red reticle range and bullet magnetism for precision weapons would have sufficed.
The BR Is starting to feel like the classic gun it is from halo 3. The changes are very welcomed.
Yeah, who doesn't love -Yoink- random spread that prevents you from getting a kill you deserved.
So personaly ive come to the conclusion that overall i prefer the changes. Prehaps its due to the BR being easier to use than the magnum or that the AR no longer dominates CQB. What ever it is ive found that for the first time in quite a while ive started to enjoy H5 again. Ive had some extremely close and thrilling CTF games and the ranking system seemes to be actualy working as intended for once.
All in all im happy with most of the changes, especially the radar that has for the most part ruined spartan charge which is the sweetest change of all.
I 100% hear what your saying and agree the AR was OP, at range I thought mostly, but now the AR is just such garbage it's not worth even picking up lol

Again, I hear what your saying about Spartan Charge too, and though I don't hate it as much as others, I definitely think it needs tweaks if it's going to be back in future Halo titles... But now with this new radar, tracker ability one (which I don't super hate but don't super love either) I feel it all but makes Spartan abilities useless!!

I've said this before but I'll say it again... if 343I are trying to make Spartan abilities less visible (which clearly I think they are) then why even have them in the game at all you know.... go back to more of a Halo 2/3 style then (which I'm fine with it) I wish 343I would acknowledge more things that people liked with the original series. It seems like they have to make an entire game, hear the community ..."suggest" for lack of a better word lol to them that we want this or that for years, then they finally seem to acknowledge this and either put it back in the current game or in a future title (wanna bet oddball is back in Halo 6 ;)

I feel like it's like pulling teeth with 343 sometimes. I just don't get why so many decisions are made about so many things, in so many areas when we all know what the majority of Halo fans like and dislike.
Yea with the AR i think the nerf was a bit much. To be honest if they left it alone and just made it a map pickup that'd be fine.

I really like the fact that the radar makes you seriously consider whether or not to use SAs but i get what your saying, i barley ever sprint now, makes no tactical sense most of the time.

But I think it allows much more map movement and awards good mobility. I love tricking players into thinking im coming in one way before flanking round and getting the drop on them.
I've seen so many players focused in one entrance thinking I'm going to go the way I originally intended... as I stroll in the other side. Really starting to dig the new radar. Took me a while, but I'm coming around :0
So personaly ive come to the conclusion that overall i prefer the changes. Prehaps its due to the BR being easier to use than the magnum or that the AR no longer dominates CQB. What ever it is ive found that for the first time in quite a while ive started to enjoy H5 again. Ive had some extremely close and thrilling CTF games and the ranking system seemes to be actualy working as intended for once.
All in all im happy with most of the changes, especially the radar that has for the most part ruined spartan charge which is the sweetest change of all.
I 100% hear what your saying and agree the AR was OP, at range I thought mostly, but now the AR is just such garbage it's not worth even picking up lol

Again, I hear what your saying about Spartan Charge too, and though I don't hate it as much as others, I definitely think it needs tweaks if it's going to be back in future Halo titles... But now with this new radar, tracker ability one (which I don't super hate but don't super love either) I feel it all but makes Spartan abilities useless!!

I've said this before but I'll say it again... if 343I are trying to make Spartan abilities less visible (which clearly I think they are) then why even have them in the game at all you know.... go back to more of a Halo 2/3 style then (which I'm fine with it) I wish 343I would acknowledge more things that people liked with the original series. It seems like they have to make an entire game, hear the community ..."suggest" for lack of a better word lol to them that we want this or that for years, then they finally seem to acknowledge this and either put it back in the current game or in a future title (wanna bet oddball is back in Halo 6 ;)

I feel like it's like pulling teeth with 343 sometimes. I just don't get why so many decisions are made about so many things, in so many areas when we all know what the majority of Halo fans like and dislike.
Yea with the AR i think the nerf was a bit much. To be honest if they left it alone and just made it a map pickup that'd be fine.

I really like the fact that the radar makes you seriously consider whether or not to use SAs but i get what your saying, i barley ever sprint now, makes no tactical sense most of the time.

But I think it allows much more map movement and awards good mobility. I love tricking players into thinking im coming in one way before flanking round and getting the drop on them.
I've seen so many players focused in one entrance thinking I'm going to go the way I originally intended... as I stroll in the other side. Really starting to dig the new radar. Took me a while, but I'm coming around :0
I really need to pay more attention to the new radar.
So personaly ive come to the conclusion that overall i prefer the changes. Prehaps its due to the BR being easier to use than the magnum or that the AR no longer dominates CQB. What ever it is ive found that for the first time in quite a while ive started to enjoy H5 again. Ive had some extremely close and thrilling CTF games and the ranking system seemes to be actualy working as intended for once.
All in all im happy with most of the changes, especially the radar that has for the most part ruined spartan charge which is the sweetest change of all.
I 100% hear what your saying and agree the AR was OP, at range I thought mostly, but now the AR is just such garbage it's not worth even picking up lol

Again, I hear what your saying about Spartan Charge too, and though I don't hate it as much as others, I definitely think it needs tweaks if it's going to be back in future Halo titles... But now with this new radar, tracker ability one (which I don't super hate but don't super love either) I feel it all but makes Spartan abilities useless!!

I've said this before but I'll say it again... if 343I are trying to make Spartan abilities less visible (which clearly I think they are) then why even have them in the game at all you know.... go back to more of a Halo 2/3 style then (which I'm fine with it) I wish 343I would acknowledge more things that people liked with the original series. It seems like they have to make an entire game, hear the community ..."suggest" for lack of a better word lol to them that we want this or that for years, then they finally seem to acknowledge this and either put it back in the current game or in a future title (wanna bet oddball is back in Halo 6 ;)

I feel like it's like pulling teeth with 343 sometimes. I just don't get why so many decisions are made about so many things, in so many areas when we all know what the majority of Halo fans like and dislike.
Yea with the AR i think the nerf was a bit much. To be honest if they left it alone and just made it a map pickup that'd be fine.

I really like the fact that the radar makes you seriously consider whether or not to use SAs but i get what your saying, i barley ever sprint now, makes no tactical sense most of the time.

But I think it allows much more map movement and awards good mobility. I love tricking players into thinking im coming in one way before flanking round and getting the drop on them.
I've seen so many players focused in one entrance thinking I'm going to go the way I originally intended... as I stroll in the other side. Really starting to dig the new radar. Took me a while, but I'm coming around :0
Yes. You can actually make plays faster than a snails pace.

People don't like it because they are so used to having their hand held and have no awareness as a consequence. You can pick that up pretty quick as long as you pay attention and from there it is SOOOOO much better. I will never understand how crouching, waiting for a blip to show up on your screen and knowing EXACTLY where someone is can be fun for either party. Its certainly not for me.
Apoll0 wrote:
So personaly ive come to the conclusion that overall i prefer the changes. Prehaps its due to the BR being easier to use than the magnum or that the AR no longer dominates CQB. What ever it is ive found that for the first time in quite a while ive started to enjoy H5 again. Ive had some extremely close and thrilling CTF games and the ranking system seemes to be actualy working as intended for once.
All in all im happy with most of the changes, especially the radar that has for the most part ruined spartan charge which is the sweetest change of all.
I 100% hear what your saying and agree the AR was OP, at range I thought mostly, but now the AR is just such garbage it's not worth even picking up lol

Again, I hear what your saying about Spartan Charge too, and though I don't hate it as much as others, I definitely think it needs tweaks if it's going to be back in future Halo titles... But now with this new radar, tracker ability one (which I don't super hate but don't super love either) I feel it all but makes Spartan abilities useless!!

I've said this before but I'll say it again... if 343I are trying to make Spartan abilities less visible (which clearly I think they are) then why even have them in the game at all you know.... go back to more of a Halo 2/3 style then (which I'm fine with it) I wish 343I would acknowledge more things that people liked with the original series. It seems like they have to make an entire game, hear the community ..."suggest" for lack of a better word lol to them that we want this or that for years, then they finally seem to acknowledge this and either put it back in the current game or in a future title (wanna bet oddball is back in Halo 6 ;)

I feel like it's like pulling teeth with 343 sometimes. I just don't get why so many decisions are made about so many things, in so many areas when we all know what the majority of Halo fans like and dislike.
Yea with the AR i think the nerf was a bit much. To be honest if they left it alone and just made it a map pickup that'd be fine.

I really like the fact that the radar makes you seriously consider whether or not to use SAs but i get what your saying, i barley ever sprint now, makes no tactical sense most of the time.

But I think it allows much more map movement and awards good mobility. I love tricking players into thinking im coming in one way before flanking round and getting the drop on them.
I've seen so many players focused in one entrance thinking I'm going to go the way I originally intended... as I stroll in the other side. Really starting to dig the new radar. Took me a while, but I'm coming around :0
Yes. You can actually make plays faster than a snails pace.

People don't like it because they are so used to having their hand held and have no awareness as a consequence. You can pick that up pretty quick as long as you pay attention and from there it is SOOOOO much better. I will never understand how crouching, waiting for a blip to show up on your screen and knowing EXACTLY where someone is can fun for either party. Its certainly not for me.
I'll admit to having that crouching playstyle, I still do it sometimes due to instincts but this new radar does encourage more active hunting of players, negating that crouching playstyle quite a bit. It has also made me realise how much I relied on the motion tracker as well, so once I'm fully used to this new one, I feel that my awareness will be better, not only in Halo, but in other games as well, something which I welcome.
RollCats wrote:
RollCats wrote:
Hold on, so how many shots to kill is the BR now?
It's still a 4-burst kill.
That's not true.
There's random spread now so it can take from 4 to 6 shots if not even more.

Check out vetoed's video:

Here
It's certainly true that a perfect is still a 4-shot. The mechanics change just make it much harder to achieve.

It seems the power has been decreased, so it requires all 12 bullets to connect to get a perfect. With the decreased magnetism and increased spread, players are more likely to miss a bullet or 2 per burst, leading to longer kill times.
I agree. I was looking it from the perspective that it is "harder" to get a perfect not because you miss shots but because the weapon randomly decides to miss. I guess my argument was that when "luck" is involved the numbers won't be consistent. So a 4 shot may not be a perfect, even though it was perfectly aligned to the opponent's head just because one bullet decided to go out of the head shot area and hit somewhere else.
This is just how I personally feel:

Since the release of this game, I've begged for a battle rifle starts playlist. To me and many others, when you think of Halo, you immediately think of the Battle Rifle. The magnum in this game is my least favorite in all the Halo games. Which is shocking, because I loved the Halo 4 magnum. The H5 magnum is just unforgiving in every way, and overall not fun to play with. Most of my Halo loving friends feel the same, to the point where they abandoned the game. Therefore, I am left playing alone or forging. Like it or not, the BR is a main staple of the franchise.

The battle rifle feels a little inconsistent now. I preferred it before the tuning, but it could have done with a little less bullet magnetism. Still, with the tuning, I am having a ton more fun than I ever did with the magnum in Arena. If left like this, I'd still prefer it than the AR/mag starts in the other playlists.

Gunfighter is better than the standard mag, but it's so weak. Once again, would love to see it perform more like the Halo 4 magnum.

If I had one major complaint about this playlist, it'd be that the radar is bad. Either do radar the regular way, or don't have it.
This is just how I personally feel:

Since the release of this game, I've begged for a battle rifle starts playlist. To me and many others, when you think of Halo, you immediately think of the Battle Rifle. The magnum in this game is my least favorite in all the Halo games. Which is shocking, because I loved the Halo 4 magnum. The H5 magnum is just unforgiving in every way, and overall not fun to play with. Most of my Halo loving friends feel the same, to the point where they abandoned the game. Therefore, I am left playing alone or forging. Like it or not, the BR is a main staple of the franchise.

The battle rifle feels a little inconsistent now. I preferred it before the tuning, but it could have done with a little less bullet magnetism. Still, with the tuning, I am having a ton more fun than I ever did with the magnum in Arena. If left like this, I'd still prefer it than the AR/mag starts in the other playlists.

Gunfighter is better than the standard mag, but it's so weak. Once again, would love to see it perform more like the Halo 4 magnum.

If I had one major complaint about this playlist, it'd be that the radar is bad. Either do radar the regular way, or don't have it.
I don't quite see why the magnum is unforgiving, I find it pretty easy to use, and personally, fun.
This is just how I personally feel:

Since the release of this game, I've begged for a battle rifle starts playlist. To me and many others, when you think of Halo, you immediately think of the Battle Rifle. The magnum in this game is my least favorite in all the Halo games. Which is shocking, because I loved the Halo 4 magnum. The H5 magnum is just unforgiving in every way, and overall not fun to play with. Most of my Halo loving friends feel the same, to the point where they abandoned the game. Therefore, I am left playing alone or forging. Like it or not, the BR is a main staple of the franchise.

The battle rifle feels a little inconsistent now. I preferred it before the tuning, but it could have done with a little less bullet magnetism. Still, with the tuning, I am having a ton more fun than I ever did with the magnum in Arena. If left like this, I'd still prefer it than the AR/mag starts in the other playlists.

Gunfighter is better than the standard mag, but it's so weak. Once again, would love to see it perform more like the Halo 4 magnum.

If I had one major complaint about this playlist, it'd be that the radar is bad. Either do radar the regular way, or don't have it.
I don't quite see why the magnum is unforgiving, I find it pretty easy to use, and personally, fun.
Maybe this is what 343i is going for with the new br. Objectively, it is harder to use than the magnum, harder to get a perfect and it's minimum ttk is longer. So it increases the skill gap. But it's burst nature and slight spread might feel more forgiving to some compared to the magnum, making the weapon more attractive to beginners and intermediates (although the ar will still be king for noobs).

This is what they are trying to accomplish, imo -- raise the skill gap while still attracting casuals and newbies and fans who left.

Now, the debate is whether they've accomplished this yet, and whether it is appropriate this far into H5 lifecycle.

My take is that I appreciate where they are going, but they went overboard a little bit with the br and carbine, maybe dmr. I am consistently ranked high plat to mid diamond -- it took me 50-100 games to really get used to the weapons, and I can still barely manage at most 1 perfect per game.

I also think changing the utility weapon from the magnum to br should be saved for a fresh take with halo 6. Keep the magnum the utility weapon for h5, turn down the magnetism some, and adjust the rest of the precision around that.
Apoll0 wrote:
So personaly ive come to the conclusion that overall i prefer the changes. Prehaps its due to the BR being easier to use than the magnum or that the AR no longer dominates CQB. What ever it is ive found that for the first time in quite a while ive started to enjoy H5 again. Ive had some extremely close and thrilling CTF games and the ranking system seemes to be actualy working as intended for once.
All in all im happy with most of the changes, especially the radar that has for the most part ruined spartan charge which is the sweetest change of all.
I 100% hear what your saying and agree the AR was OP, at range I thought mostly, but now the AR is just such garbage it's not worth even picking up lol

Again, I hear what your saying about Spartan Charge too, and though I don't hate it as much as others, I definitely think it needs tweaks if it's going to be back in future Halo titles... But now with this new radar, tracker ability one (which I don't super hate but don't super love either) I feel it all but makes Spartan abilities useless!!

I've said this before but I'll say it again... if 343I are trying to make Spartan abilities less visible (which clearly I think they are) then why even have them in the game at all you know.... go back to more of a Halo 2/3 style then (which I'm fine with it) I wish 343I would acknowledge more things that people liked with the original series. It seems like they have to make an entire game, hear the community ..."suggest" for lack of a better word lol to them that we want this or that for years, then they finally seem to acknowledge this and either put it back in the current game or in a future title (wanna bet oddball is back in Halo 6 ;)

I feel like it's like pulling teeth with 343 sometimes. I just don't get why so many decisions are made about so many things, in so many areas when we all know what the majority of Halo fans like and dislike.
Yea with the AR i think the nerf was a bit much. To be honest if they left it alone and just made it a map pickup that'd be fine.

I really like the fact that the radar makes you seriously consider whether or not to use SAs but i get what your saying, i barley ever sprint now, makes no tactical sense most of the time.

But I think it allows much more map movement and awards good mobility. I love tricking players into thinking im coming in one way before flanking round and getting the drop on them.
I've seen so many players focused in one entrance thinking I'm going to go the way I originally intended... as I stroll in the other side. Really starting to dig the new radar. Took me a while, but I'm coming around :0
Yes. You can actually make plays faster than a snails pace.

People don't like it because they are so used to having their hand held and have no awareness as a consequence. You can pick that up pretty quick as long as you pay attention and from there it is SOOOOO much better. I will never understand how crouching, waiting for a blip to show up on your screen and knowing EXACTLY where someone is can fun for either party. Its certainly not for me.
I'll admit to having that crouching playstyle, I still do it sometimes due to instincts but this new radar does encourage more active hunting of players, negating that crouching playstyle quite a bit. It has also made me realise how much I relied on the motion tracker as well, so once I'm fully used to this new one, I feel that my awareness will be better, not only in Halo, but in other games as well, something which I welcome.
100% agree, the lack of full radar has really forced me to concentrate harder on map flow and layout. Definitely rate the radar changes.
RollCats wrote:
[stuff]
Maybe this is what 343i is going for with the new br. Objectively, it is harder to use than the magnum, harder to get a perfect and it's minimum ttk is longer. So it increases the skill gap. But it's burst nature and slight spread might feel more forgiving to some compared to the magnum, making the weapon more attractive to beginners and intermediates (although the ar will still be king for noobs).

This is what they are trying to accomplish, imo -- raise the skill gap while still attracting casuals and newbies and fans who left.
If they switch to this new tuned BR as a starting weapon, but leave the current H5 magnum as a secondary (instead of the GF magnum), I guess I could live with that in Arena. I'd just use the magnum.

But I do think that the tuned BR will be a huge (and unwelcome) change to WZ. The problem is that the current BR is the only loadout strong enough to even slightly compete with the L3 and L4 REQs that the enemy pulls out, like a Blood of Suban, barbed lance, void's tear, railguns, etc. If you nerf the L3 BR, it will be impossible to even slightly counter a team's L4 REQs with your loadouts, so if you only have L3 you are screwed.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
RollCats wrote:
[stuff]
Maybe this is what 343i is going for with the new br. Objectively, it is harder to use than the magnum, harder to get a perfect and it's minimum ttk is longer. So it increases the skill gap. But it's burst nature and slight spread might feel more forgiving to some compared to the magnum, making the weapon more attractive to beginners and intermediates (although the ar will still be king for noobs).

This is what they are trying to accomplish, imo -- raise the skill gap while still attracting casuals and newbies and fans who left.
If they switch to this new tuned BR as a starting weapon, but leave the current H5 magnum as a secondary (instead of the GF magnum), I guess I could live with that in Arena. I'd just use the magnum.

But I do think that the tuned BR will be a huge (and unwelcome) change to WZ. The problem is that the current BR is the only loadout strong enough to even slightly compete with the L3 and L4 REQs that the enemy pulls out, like a Blood of Suban, barbed lance, void's tear, railguns, etc. If you nerf the L3 BR, it will be impossible to even slightly counter a team's L4 REQs with your loadouts, so if you only have L3 you are screwed.
I agree, i dont play warzome alot, but that would definitely make it more challenging. The game was built around magnum for arena, br for war zone.

So if they want br starts, wait until h6 when you can balance other maps weapons and modes around the br once you get the br, ar, pistol and mechanics desired
Is there a way to balance de BR without increasing the bullet spread?
The BR feels random and uneffective. I would prefer a decrease in aim assist and red reticle range,
Im also going to miss Magnum starts. I love how in Halo 5 you can use the magnum effectivly, in any other Halo the magnum can't compete against a BR or DMR, but in H5 that isn't the case. AR and Magnum startups is (in my opinion) balanced because you got a strong close-mid range loadout but it isn't the best, so map control still gives you an advantage.
Bullet spread on BR feels slightly too wide/random. Also prefer having radar but can live without it. Otherwise really liking the changes.
in any other Halo the magnum can't compete
You've clearly never played CE. :-) Of course this was before the BR was created...
I don't like the new radar being the default radar. It's fun for some gamemodes, but the old radar gave the chance for intense mindgames, now is much easier putting yourself behind the opponent and punching him in the back
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
Is there a way to balance de BR without increasing the bullet spread?
The BR feels random and uneffective. I would prefer a decrease in aim assist and red reticle range,
Im also going to miss Magnum starts. I love how in Halo 5 you can use the magnum effectivly, in any other Halo the magnum can't compete against a BR or DMR, but in H5 that isn't the case. AR and Magnum startups is (in my opinion) balanced because you got a strong close-mid range loadout but it isn't the best, so map control still gives you an advantage.
You've clearly never played CE. :-) Of course this was before the BR was created...
I totally forgot about CE and that 3 shot kills :)
I would like to use the AR more.
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