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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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I played a little bit more after a weekly break(almost a week)

My new impressions are that it isn't as bad as initially though because I wasn't stressing about it. Bit something has to be done about the be. I've dull on shot a no shield enemy 2x before they died in the head. Still a lot better overall when I paced everything bit it feels to wrong with how fast everything is.
i often shoot unshielded Spartans in the head with the BR but it doesn't kill them it only happens with the BR.

also will the energy sword variants receive the same thing the normal one did?
I was kind of hoping they'd balance the automatics a different way. Rather than just making them terrible with automatic fire (kind of ironic tbh), I was thinking they should make them really precise like the magnum with more recoil to prolonged fire so it can reward pacing shots instead of just waiting for the reticle to return to normal which doesn't take that much skill at all to do. Sure, the ar and smg do pretty good still in the weapon tuning playlist, but I'd say thats only because the br was nerfed so bad. If we had these ars or smgs with the normal magnum as a start, they'd be pretty much useless compared to what they used to be. I guess that's why you only see the gunfighter and flagnum, which I can appreciate
I think I can sum up whether this is a good update to apply regarding the BR with one question. If you were playing on an arena map not BTB and it was a normal magnum/AR start when you walk over the BR would you pick it? I don't think I would. Maybe for the AR because I loathe autos but, I certainly wouldn't drop my magnum for the new BR.
the br is terrible :c u need much bullets for kill
I think I can sum up whether this is a good update to apply regarding the BR with one question. If you were playing on an arena map not BTB and it was a normal magnum/AR start when you walk over the BR would you pick it? I don't think I would. Maybe for the AR because I loathe autos but, I certainly wouldn't drop my magnum for the new BR.
I'd pick the BR up.
Halo 5 Weapon Tuning Phase 2 Feedback:

First, let me preface that there are two huge problems with this update that are not related to the tuned weapons themselves, but to decisions made by 343 Industries:
  • Making the Battle Rifle the starting weapon instead of the Magnum is not a good idea. Yes the BR was the competitive mascot during Halo 2 and 3 and many people still associate the BR with fond memories of playing Team Hardcore and MLG and going to events. However, a burst-fire weapon will always be easier to get the final headshot with, unless you make it so that it requires all three bullets being a headshot to guarantee a kill on an unshielded player, in which case the weapon becomes inconsistent in the eyes of the user.
  • Not including the Sniper Rifle, Storm Rifle as part of the update is a huge oversight by 343. These are the most obviously broken weapons in the entire sandbox, with the Storm Rifle doing too much health damage and the Sniper Rifle having way too much bullet magnetism, to the point where you can literally miss a player’s head by a foot and still get a “headshot”. Other weapons that would definitely require tweaking are the SAW, Brute Plasma Rifle and Spartan Charge.

With that out of the way, let’s get into the individual weapons:

Active Camo
Nothing to complain about here. A much-needed buff and makes this powerup an actual threat again.

Assault Rifle
The best way to fix this weapon would have been removal of ADS bonuses and a slight increase to base spread and spread increase per shot. It’s definitely in a better place now than before, as it requires a certain amount of trigger discipline to be used effectively. But the fact that zooming in still gives it more range and that the effective range is still overall too long and the weapon steps on the toes of precision weapons is problematic.

SMG
Good changes, I would actually go even further and give it some more recoil. More spread is a good way to nerf the range, but overall not much has changed and the weapon still melts people too quickly and is more effective than a Shotgun or Sword in many situations. Please also look into a damage-reduction as the weapon is a bit too dominant at close range. If you want to keep its raw damage output, consider making it an actual power weapon and reducing the amount of SMGs on maps.



Sword
Removing the speed boost is a good change, but please also remove the increased range that ADS gives. Zooming in with a Sword just feels so wrong and silly, it also makes the game even more clunky than it is to begin with.

Fuel Rod Gun
I’m not even sure what actually changed here. It feels like the RoF has been lowered and the explosion radius might be a tad smaller, but as a whole, the weapon is still just a spammy version of the Rocket Launcher. I would have welcomed stronger gravity on the projectiles and a smaller clip to make it harder to use and less spammy.

Grenade Launcher
Nothing really changed on this weapon. It only takes a few minutes to get adjusted to the new arc and the actual problem still remains: The blast radius and kill radius are way too large. The Reach version actually took skill to be effective with, this new GL is just a more forgiving Rocket Launcher with a smaller clip.

Beam Rifle
This change should have been made when the Sniper was changed, as it is essentially the same thing and puts the Beam Rifle in line with the UNSC Sniper again. But this weapon and the Sniper Rifle should be looked at in a second weapon tuning update as they are both way too easy to use for how much damage they deliver and also when compared to other Halo games’ sniper rifles.

Rail Gun
This weapon was nerfed in the wrong way. It was too effective up close because of the insane magnetism and strong splash damage. Making it take forever to charge might achieve the goal of nerfing the weapon’s overall power, but it’s still too easy to use and now handles very similar to the Spartan Laser, so why does it even need to exist? Put the charge timer back to what it was and cut down on magnetism and aim assist and we’re golden.
Okay Let’s get to the nitty gritty: The precision weapon changes

Gunfighter Magnum
This nerf is totally unnecessary. I understand the intention behind it: 343 feels like Halo needs a “sidearm” or secondary weapon, similar to the Magnum’s role in Halo 2,3,4 and Reach. I have to ask, why? All this does is clutter up the sandbox with garbage. Please turn the gunfighter into a useful weapon again and put it on the maps instead of spawning players with it.

DMR
The weapon is now very hard to use up close, but still an easy-mode mini-sniper when scoped in. Generating such a huge gap between unzoomed and zoomed weapon behavior is – dare I used that word - jarring and makes long range combat more of a “who can descope the other guy first” rather than a skillful back-and-forth of zoomed and unzoomed shooting. Overall, I still prefer this new DMR to the vanilla DMR though, but please consider an aim assist and bullet magnetism nerf in zoomed behavior as well.

Carbine
Here we go. Bullet magnetism and aim assist reductions are welcomed, as well as the reduced Red Reticle Range. However, any sort of random spread has to go. This is a terrible way of reducing a weapon’s range, if you feel the Carbine is still too effective at range, further reduce the magnetism and RRR, but please stay away from random spread. Halo 3 and Reach have already taught us this lesson. Every 1v1 encounter turns into a coin toss with this amount of random spread. It shrinks the skill gap, it makes the game frustrating to play and there are much better ways to keep a weapon’s range in check.

Battle Rifle
Again we have the issue of random bullet spread. See above why this is terrible for gameplay. But please keep the lower bullet magnetism and aim assist, 1v1’s are actually skillful now, whereas the vanilla BR is one of the easiest weapons in Halo history.
I’m not a fan of the lower rate of fire. Spreading the three bullets in the burst further apart only makes the gun more inconsistent and frustrating to use. We also do not need slower times to kill, Halo 5 already has enough problems with players escaping gunfights via Sprint, Clamber and Thruster, we do not need to make matters worse by nerfing the TTK of the starting weapon. I would much prefer the rate of fire of the vanilla BR or even the H5 Beta’s BR.
I think I can sum up whether this is a good update to apply regarding the BR with one question. If you were playing on an arena map not BTB and it was a normal magnum/AR start when you walk over the BR would you pick it? I don't think I would. Maybe for the AR because I loathe autos but, I certainly wouldn't drop my magnum for the new BR.
It truly comes down to distance and yes once you reach a certain distance from your opponent, the BR becomes more effective than the magnum. For that I would and have strategically chosen to go with a BR pickup. Now my secondary will prob be the new magnum vs the new assault rifle. Mostly because with the right shots, you can headshot and kill an enemy pretty quickly up close with new magnum. Id say faster than ar. Don't get me wrong, I'm I have no beef with the AR changes. I just think the gunfighter magnum holds its own very well. I've put enemies to sleep with the magnum before they even know I'm there
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I just want to say thank you too ske7ch for giving us an "update" on things. It's good to hear something from you (343I) in threads like these. At least we know our comments are being read and taken into consideration.Thanks again
I agree, thank you ske7ch for giving us updates on everything with halo. Glad to see that all that hard works has really payed off.
I think I can sum up whether this is a good update to apply regarding the BR with one question. If you were playing on an arena map not BTB and it was a normal magnum/AR start when you walk over the BR would you pick it? I don't think I would. Maybe for the AR because I loathe autos but, I certainly wouldn't drop my magnum for the new BR.
I would personally still pick up the BR since its a hell of a lot easier to use than the Magnum for me.

But the BR has gone from a pick up to a starting weapon which means it has to get a nerf otherwise the game will turn into a cross map BR fest. I agree that spray may not be the best way of doing this but i do believe 343 have somewhat succeeded at creating a jack of all trades, master of none BR. In my experience most times at mid-range the BR holds its own as it should. But now at CQC switching to the gunfighter makes more sense for me since i find the BR hard as hell to use effectively at this range. Same with long range, the DMR now has a reason to exist in arena, dominating the BR at range and being crushed up close. So while i don't like the way 343 have introduced spread to limit the BR i think overall the changes are necessary if BR starts are to become standard. Otherwise 70% of the sandbox would become redundant and map movement would be severely limited.
I take back what I said, the BR does still feel good to shoot, but the spread is very bad, please if anything just use the new look for how it shoots, the BR sucks to use now.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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ske7ch wrote:
2. HCFP surveys were sent out last week to some participants. Not everyone will get one - I'm not sure what qualifiers they used but people were likely selected based on things like how many games they played, their history with Halo 5 (and prior Halo games), their general play habits and styles, etc... The user research team needs to get a thorough but representative sample.
  • What about the type of feedback you were getting leading up to this update? Did It come from players of a wide variety of play styles and skill levels or from people who didn't play anymore and/or didn't understand how the game functions?
I wouldn't be surprised if they have some kind of algorithm to help them determine this. I am still hopeful, and am glad to have participated in this test from beginning to end. I may be a little too optimistic and naive for some, given the track record, but I really think that this test is about helping Halo get back to where it should be.
Cyanara BK wrote:
AnnihilAda wrote:
Cyanara BK wrote:
AnnihilAda wrote:
Cyanara BK wrote:
I have stopped playing this playlist as much and i realisted how much i like having my bullets go where they should be plz no spread at all, reduce reticle and zoom maybe but no spread loss
Who cares if you personally like having your bullets go where they should be? As a player you only have control over where to point the barrel to release the bullets, you're literally whining about something that was never deterministic (from your perspective) in the the first place. The new BR actually behaves closer to the way an actual battle rifle (burst fire, full cartridge) would behave in real life. The old BR was so effective at all ranges because it basically performed kinda like a 3round bullet laser gun. The weapon had a single consistent burst of recoil after what is supposed to be 3 consecutive strikes of the firing pin. The old BR performed as though 3 bullets were loaded simultaneously in the chamber, and all were fired simultaneously with perfect mechanics from a single pull of the trigger. Were that to happen in a real firearm the gun would JAM.

The way 3 round burst fire works in real life is something like trying to control multiple explosions that happen inside the rifle faster than you can blink. NO -Yoink- your rounds are going to go in random places, thats -Yoinking!- PHYSICS.

If you play Halo simply to avoid reality why not stick to the completely fictional weapons (All of the Covenant and Forerunner plasma weapons). If in the 26th century we still are using firearms that were perfected in the 20th century I'm betting we are doing so because they are still effective and the basic mechanics haven't changed.
So your argument is that it is ok to remove the skill from the game and make people feustrated about the lack of the accuracy and escaping a 4 shot perfect, play the playlist for awhile and once you u have some 4 shots stolen from you at the correct range (mid range). You tell me how you feel about it. P.s. the bullet spread has always historicaly angered people.
What do you mean "shots were stolen from you"? The game doesn't owe you a kill just because you think you're better than you actually are. That's like whining about not getting a raise at work, or not scoring a shot in basketball. If you don't have the skill, then you just don't get the kill. Why not adapt instead of whinging like a spoiled toddler, so that 343 can actually get good data about whether or not the modified BR does what it's there to do, i.e. be a medium to mid-long range weapon? Personally I've been doing a lot better now that people can't spam the old "BR laser" and take you down whether you're across the map or right in someone's face. It actually forces me to take the extra few milliseconds to think about how I should approach an engagement once I make contact. Should I attempt to go for a BR kill? Only if the parameters are right. Should I take out my handgun? Only if the parameters are right. Should I forget about shooting and try to close with the enemy and outmaneuver him for a beatdown? ONLY IF THE PARAMETERS ARE RIGHT. Slowing down the BR's fire rate has had the dramatic effect of slowing down the pace of battle just enough for me to actually think tactically instead of running in and relying only on my brain-stem and reflexes to get kills. I've actually discovered that I'm quite a bit worse at shooting than I previously thought I was, however I'm the type of player that prefers to maneuver rather than shoot. It has helped my gameplay tremendously now that the game actually penalizes people for using the wrong weapon out of its optimal range, and I now feel like every 1v1 encounter in a match is practically a game of fire/maneuver chess, where the right tactical decision actually beats people just relying on their targeting and trigger reflexes. I now play the Weapon Tuning Test almost exclusively these days, and when I do play the other playlists I simply refuse to use the old BR, because now actually enjoy the challenge.
While I hear that you're a higher rank than him, I actually cant disagree with that guy. The new playlist does allow for more of a maneuverability tactic to come into play, instead of relying on perfect BR shots. It's a step in the right direction. But to your point yes, perhaps they need to further tune the BR to find a happy medium for everybody.
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How is this even constructive feedback? It's not and does nothing to help 343 decide if/how they might change things. You have played a good amount before and during the test. We need better feedback than this for the community.

This test/tuning is a big deal. Take some time to be constructive instead of just throwing insults and profanities. You help no one and it's not helping Halo.
The changes have been nothing but fresh for me. Instead of the game growing stale with older mechanics, we have something new to master
So the more i played the more i noticed things i made a post before but this will be a little more detailed.
AR and SMG: I like the changes except that i think the spread should be more at the end not at the beginning as you hold down the weapons.
However you left out two weapons i believe that were more OP then these which are the Storm and Brute rifles. These need to be nerfed especially now that the other Automatics were nerfed.
Carbine: i think that this weapon should not have spread on it either. Maybe reduce the damage and magnetism a little on it instead.
DMR: i think it was good before i would of just added something similar to the light rifle has when you zoom in it takes less shots to kill.
BR: i noticed that ROF was reduced which i thought it was fine before. However the biggest issue with this is the bullet spread. Its too inconsistent i landed 6 headshot and person's shield did not even come off. There was a time that i land a body shot and counted as a headshot. Maybe reduce it because i think its too high or get rid of it. Just reduce the magnetism so that the strafe be more effective maybe begin to incorporate bullet spread at long distance. How the BR feels now it just feels very slow and inconsistent too long to kill someone which does not flow right with the pace of the game.
Sword: I like the changes still deadly but give someone at a distance a fighting chance and not allowing someone to just run around the map swording people makes you be more tactical with it. I like it
Grenade launcher: i like the changes
Fuel Rod: I like the changes
Railgun: i think it did need a nerf but now its ineffective and useless. It takes way to long to charge. Reminds me of the Spartan laser. I feel the charge time on these weapons need to be increased a little. I see people not even bothering to pick it up no more. Increase the charge time a little and i think it will be good
Gunfighter MAG: i dont think this really need to be nerfed but hey its my opinion. I think the recoil on this weapon is a little extreme maybe reduce it a little or get rid of it also i think the addition of the smart link was not a good choice. I think the weapon fuctioned better without it. I feel it gets in the way and dont think its a good fit for the gun.
Camo: The changes to this was a little better but still believe it could be better. Its a power up and you put alot of effort and risk your life trying to grab it still being able to be seen is not rewarding. I'm not saying that it should remain invisible with everything you do. Here is where i believe it should be visible.
1. Sprinting
2. Firing your weapon or melee someone.
3. Using your thrust
4. Throwing grenades
5. Getting hit.
However if you are just walking/moving your character it should remain invisible. I know is not visible when standing still or crouch walking but camo would be more effective with the pace of the game if allowed to remain invisible as you walk. I believe thats all it needs to be perfect.
Beam: i have not had the chance to use it. Its always gone or someone grabbed before me. I agree and it fairly easy to get no scopes with it. If the changes could be similar to the sniper then thats all it needs.
Grenades: I personally dont have a issue except when it becomes a grenade fest lol. Maybe reduce the amount provided to you or on the map or don't put them in pairs make people use them more wisely to me this is all that really needs to be done to resolve the grenade issue. If not maybe reduce the damage on the frag. Stickys are fine and nerf the pulse/splinter grenades a little but not too much. We dont want them to be a useless as they were in Halo 4.

I see a lot of people have issues with the start up weapons why not make random start up weapons similar that to swat maybe MAG/AR, BR/MAG, DMR/AR, and BR/AR. Something to look into and consider. Now and/or future. Maybe bring back veto option as well.
I appreciate the efforts to make the game more balance. I know you won't satisfy everyone but i know you are trying. I strongly believe bullet spread should not be in the game. It was in previous games and that was people's biggest issue. I would just reduce the magnetism in the game it would allow strafe to be more effective and not interfere with the pace of the game making it flow better. I believe that you did a fairly good job with the balancing of the game prior to this weapon tunning. It was not perfect but good with small tweaks to be made. Over all i thought it was good I hope that i helped and i hope you take my input into consideration. Please dont do anything to the regular magnum i believe it be perfect as it is. I believe it to be fun and great to use. Something i have not felt about the magnum in awhile. Hope you put out a forum for Halo 6 I got some ideas that i wanna share and things i want to see return for it.

Thank you for your time and good luck!!
The BR is the worst iteration ive played with. Random and unusable, the weapon doesnt need crazy spread, just tune down the aim assist. Also if you are trying to balance MP you should reduce melee magnetism, its the worst! This is Halo not Mortal Kombat...
the br has too much gun kick
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