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[Locked] Weapon Tuning Test - Phase Two Feedback - 9/11

OP ske7ch

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DaxSeven09 wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
DoubIe A wrote:
I haven't been able to play Halo for a little over a month so I have not actually tried out the settings. But I am a very experienced player and I can give my perspective based off of what I have learned from the descriptions of others.

{stuff}

In short, the changes to the BR sound good. The new role given to the gunfighter magnum is genius and I can't wait to try it when I get back to playing Halo. Everything else, I trust that the community and 343 will make it work.
Please please don't advocate for (or against) these weapon changes unless you've actually spent some time in this tuned weapon sandbox trying them out. It's impossible to generate an informed opinion unless you actually spend time using them.
Strongly agree with this right here. How do you really think that sharing an opinion on something that you have no first hand knowledge of helps in any way? This is then not an opinion it just becomes a regurgitation of what others have previously said, and thereby a waste of everyone's time.
How is it a waste of time if the fact that I haven't played is disclosed in the first sentence? You wasted your own time. Not my fault.

Also, you chose to ignore my argument on how the br spread does not lower the skill gap. You just went straight for ad hominem.
DoubIe A wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
DoubIe A wrote:
I haven't been able to play Halo for a little over a month so I have not actually tried out the settings. But I am a very experienced player and I can give my perspective based off of what I have learned from the descriptions of others.

{stuff}

In short, the changes to the BR sound good. The new role given to the gunfighter magnum is genius and I can't wait to try it when I get back to playing Halo. Everything else, I trust that the community and 343 will make it work.
Please please don't advocate for (or against) these weapon changes unless you've actually spent some time in this tuned weapon sandbox trying them out. It's impossible to generate an informed opinion unless you actually spend time using them.
Strongly agree with this right here. How do you really think that sharing an opinion on something that you have no first hand knowledge of helps in any way? This is then not an opinion it just becomes a regurgitation of what others have previously said, and thereby a waste of everyone's time.
How is it a waste of time if the fact that I haven't played is disclosed in the first sentence? You wasted your own time. Not my fault.

Also, you chose to ignore my argument on how the br spread does not lower the skill gap. You just went straight for ad hominem.
I chose not to read past that first sentence, as I am sure many people who are following this thread will do, when they read that you have not even played the tuning playlist.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
[Suggestion to make damage variable according to distance]
The problem with this IMO is that it becomes too hard to know (and communicate) how weak enemies are. Commonly now you can cross map an enemy then make callouts like "pink 1, two shot", and have that mean something, because you know exactly how much damage your shots did when you got hit-markers. If the damage is variable, it breaks that awesome dynamic in the game, or makes it overly complex to the point that it's simply impossible to communicate in a fast-paced game.
The most important form of communication revolving damage is the "one shot" callout which would not be impacted by this change because of the visual indication of an opponent's shields breaking. While I suppose communication beyond the "one shot" call-out could get a little murky when outside a weapon's RRR I think it still presents a very favorable trade-off given the benefits that would be realized.
Little more damage to the magnum.
But evething more is ok!
eLantern wrote:
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
eLantern wrote:
[Suggestion to make damage variable according to distance]
The problem with this IMO is that it becomes too hard to know (and communicate) how weak enemies are. Commonly now you can cross map an enemy then make callouts like "pink 1, two shot", and have that mean something, because you know exactly how much damage your shots did when you got hit-markers. If the damage is variable, it breaks that awesome dynamic in the game, or makes it overly complex to the point that it's simply impossible to communicate in a fast-paced game.
The most important form of communication revolving damage is the "one shot" callout which would not be impacted by this change because of the visual indication of an opponent's shields breaking. While I suppose communication beyond the "one shot" call-out could get a little murky when outside a weapon's RRR I think it still presents a very favorable trade-off given the benefits that would be realized.
Well certainly at the pro player level, callouts like "two-shot" and "got one on him" are very common. You hear them all the time in their twitch streams. And I'd like to know if I shoot a guy 4 times with my magnum that he will actually be 1-shot, rather than be unsure if he's 2-shot or 1-shot. A lot of the split second decisions you make about challenging or not challenging rely upon knowing how many shots up you'll be in the fight if you challenge.

Right now it's worth peeking cross-map to try and get a hit on a guy your teammate is fighting, because it will mean 1 fewer shot they have to hit. if your shot from cross map isn't worth a full hit, it becomes too complicated to figure out whether it's worth trying to get that cross map hit, cause it might not help your teammate enough to matter, if your shots are weaker.
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Anjumara wrote:
This is not the way to fix the BR, the weapon is shaky and extremely inconsistent. It has been turned from a little OP to completely useless. If you play on a high ping connection like myself, achieving a hit marker is almost impossible. Also if you look at peoples post stats, consistently average accuracies have shot through the floor. The gun is no longer a precision weapon in this condition. I would rather not have the gun in the game if it is going to preform in this manner.
The reason they changed the BR the way they did was to pander to the handful of HCS elitists who actually like the weapon that way.
This is complete misrepresentation of the competitive communities view at large. Go to teambeyond.net and read their forums. Not only do the "HCS elitists" want a gun that shoots straight, they prefer a single fire gun.

If I was to try and consolidate there opinion into one unifying thought, it would most likely be they are confused why BR starts are being implemented at all, when a buff to the magnum (damage or rof) would solve a lot of the problems in the sandbox.

If the only way to make the BR not easy (unskillful) is to make it inaccurate (unskillful) the HCS community isn't interested. The magnum is an accurate weapon which takes some amount of skill to land perfect shots, the big problem is it's perfect kill-time isn't rewarding vs other weapons in the sandbox.
The thing about the old BR was that it was a good overall precision weapon that wasn't hyper-selective with who could use it effectively. The way it is now it's only effective in the hands of a select few and that's a drastic step down from the accessibility that Halo is supposed to be known for. I personally can still get kills with it, but it's become next to useless in my hands and don't say it's because I'm not good at the game because that's a cop out. The fact is that they've made the H5 BR too selective with who can use it effectively where it used to be a good bridging point for players of different skill levels. Before the tuning test, the BR was a weapon that a less skilled player could pick up and have a fighting chance against someone of a higher skill bracket. Otherwise, if you're of a lower skill level you might as well just stick with the starting weapons and be satisfied with constantly getting their skulls caved in every five seconds, or is that what you're going for?
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Just so you know...the testing is actually over. That is why the playlist no longer is titled Weapon Tuning, and returned to Team Arena.

And choosing which rifle you spawn with was removed after Halo 4. Everyone spawning with the same weapons is more balanced, and how Halo has always been and should be.
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
DaxSeven09 wrote:
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Just so you know...the testing is actually over. That is why the playlist no longer is titled Weapon Tuning, and returned to Team Arena.

And choosing which rifle you spawn with was removed after Halo 4. Everyone spawning with the same weapons is more balanced, and how Halo has always been and should be.
It's seems more regressive though, in direct contrast to 343's efforts to "modernize" the franchise and make players feel more individual as Spartans.
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
It's not about making your Spartan more personal it is about the more skillful players winning in a 1v1. This is what Halo should be. I don't see why you would want it any other way.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
You can edit your posts if you need to add something...fyi.

It's not about making your Spartan more personal it is about the more skillful players winning in a 1v1. This is what Halo should be. I don't see why you would want it any other way.
You've confused Spartan2068 (Me) and Spartan4894 (The other guy) for the same person
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
so why re-tune weapons if everyone is supposed to be more equal. I'll admit i did pretty bad in WTT, 3/7 out of qualifying rounds. but shouldn't weapons function as they always have?
Anjumara wrote:
The thing about the old BR was that it was a good overall precision weapon that wasn't hyper-selective with who could use it effectively. The way it is now it's only effective in the hands of a select few and that's a drastic step down from the accessibility that Halo is supposed to be known for.

I personally can still get kills with it, but it's become next to useless in my hands and don't say it's because I'm not good at the game because that's a cop out. The fact is that they've made the H5 BR too selective with who can use it effectively where it used to be a good bridging point for players of different skill levels.

Before the tuning test, the BR was a weapon that a less skilled player could pick up and have a fighting chance against someone of a higher skill bracket. Otherwise, if you're of a lower skill level you might as well just stick with the starting weapons and be satisfied with constantly getting their skulls caved in every five seconds, or is that what you're going for?
I disagree. There is still a fighting chance since with the adjustments the random spread actually helped the 1v1's become more about who outmanuever, and a little bit of luck. Before it is more about who saw/shot who first. Unfortunately the random spread of the BR made things too unpredictable and not always necessarily about skill.

The hope, and the overall consensus seems to be that they don't make the full changes to the BR that we tested. We will have to wait and see.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
You can edit your posts if you need to add something...fyi.
It's not about making your Spartan more personal it is about the more skillful players winning in a 1v1. This is what Halo should be. I don't see why you would want it any other way.
You've confused Spartan2068 (Me) and Spartan4894 (The other guy) for the same person
Yeah, sorry about that. I edited my post and took it out. Your name are so similar that's all I was looking at.

BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
so why re-tune weapons if everyone is supposed to be more equal. I'll admit i did pretty bad in WTT, 3/7 out of qualifying rounds. but shouldn't weapons function as they always have?
Did you read up on their reasoning here? There was a lot of information leading up to the testing, and why they decided to do it. They explained how they wanted each weapon to function more in its role. I have been fine with them messing around with how the weapons function. I don't mind a little change to things after the game has been out for two years now. It gives new life into the game.

It is unfortunate that you didn't give yourself more of a chance to play the testing. Three games was definitely not enough in my opinion. It was a big change and frustrating at times, but I enjoyed the playlist. I played over 100 games I think. Even though in the end I didn't agree with all the changes I appreciated being able to participate, and I stay hopeful that the changes we will see in November will be positive for Halo in the end.
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
so why re-tune weapons if everyone is supposed to be more equal. I'll admit i did pretty bad in WTT, 3/7 out of qualifying rounds. but shouldn't weapons function as they always have?
Balance has never been an easy thing, the BR for example, for the most part, has been a little too powerful, it was way too easy to land all shots and get perfects. The retune was designed to make the weapon more akin to its older incarnations, getting perfects is meant to be a reward for good aim. Other weapons, like the SMG, were too effective outside their intended range, this needed to be toned down. I believe someone from 343i would be infinitely better at explaining this than me though
DaxSeven09 wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
BR's def off possibly shorter range/less accurate burst spread. also why can't Spartan's choose which primary Rifle we spawn with in Slayer playlists?
Not being able to choose what we spawn with is a design decision made by 343i after people reacted negatively to Halo 4's system. It messed with the balance of the game as anyone could just spawn in with a BR or DMR and destroy anyone who had other weapons. I understand why you want this, it makes your Spartan feel more personal, but ultimately, the way they went with Arena in Halo 5 favours skill over spawning with the best weapons
You can edit your posts if you need to add something...fyi.

It's not about making your Spartan more personal it is about the more skillful players winning in a 1v1. This is what Halo should be. I don't see why you would want it any other way.
You've confused Spartan2068 (Me) and Spartan4894 (The other guy) for the same person
Yeah, sorry about that. I edited my post and took it out. Your name are so similar that's all I was looking at.
Aye, no worries, it happens sometimes, reminds me I still need to change it
Rail gun is now useless imo
Rail gun is now useless imo
Tuning test is over. Rail gun is back to normal.

And the majority seemed to like the changes to the Rail gun. It just took a little more planning when using it. It is too easy to use in its current form.
Yea I know test is over, just wanted to give that last little feedback you know. Well I also know a few who don’t really like it but I can respect what you’re saying
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