Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Update - Early Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Since feedback on this will be mainly handled through the Halo Community Feedback Program, a concern I have with that is I have more then once ran into technical issues with surveys (due to the fact that there's an NDA with them, I can;t clarify right here), and thus far I have not been able to get in contact with anybody for years to try to get them resolved. Really hoping somebody from 343i or MS's user research division will see this and let me know how I can resolve these ahead of time before surveys go out for this.

Anyways, I'm very interested and happy to read (at least based on how I am interpreting it) that the AR isn't being nerfed, just made to reward skilled usage more (something I wish happened with ALL automatics, please don't impose artificial skillcaps and give all of them a way to reward skilled usage and have skillgaps), and that the BR, DMR, and Carbine are being made less "good at everything" and more specialized.

Halo has always struggled to give it's automatics relevance outside of very niche ranges and situations where they weren't even effective enough inside of to justify keeping them on your player over the much more versatile precision weapons. Halo 5 to begin with was a step in the right direction towards correcting this, and this change seems like it will fix it even further. I'm iffy on the SMG range nerf, but given that it's pretty much exclusively a spraying gun I suppose it's justified, but it can't be too much of a range reduction or else, again, the loss of versatility will be too much to make it worth using.
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
The brute shot AND brute spiker should have never been replaced. They were iconic, but eh, I'm not a game dev.
Personally I am a little concerned about the future state of the DMR, BR, and Railgun, (hopefully I really am wrong) I know it's pretty subjective, but I hope the DMR doesn't become similar to that of Halo: Reach, honestly that was one of the least weapons in that game, BR is mostly for the shot stability, and the Railgun is mostly because by this point I have the image of it being a ¨Panic Weapon¨ so I really don't know how the weapon will perform in regards to the update...
Fishy HCS wrote:
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
The brute shot AND brute spiker should have never been replaced. They were iconic, but eh, I'm not a game dev.
I'm hoping to be surprised by an official one-sided objective custom game setting, so that the forge and custom community can properly create 1-Flag and Single Bomb Assault games and maps.

Not to mention, I'd love to be surprised by an official Gun Game mode brought to Halo 5 too; especially, with this game's REQ system. It'd be great to see it appear with the Action Sack playlist.
Anyone have a comment on RoF between SAWs and SMGs? Their dmg is about the same.
I honestly just want the Answer nerfed, it's way too over powered.
Fishy HCS wrote:
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
The brute shot AND brute spiker should have never been replaced. They were iconic, but eh, I'm not a game dev.
Spiker, I was never really fond of it, but I'd like to see it back regardless, because the more weapons the better, at least for me. But the Brute Shot's role hasn't been properly covered by any other weapon so far, plus they could make variants for it which are even cooler. I swear, if they don't bring it in Halo 6 with the Banished and all I'm gonna be REALLY pissed off, I just want to see that back, everything else to me is optional but welcome nonetheless, but the Brute Shot is a must.
Also, no matter what PLEASE don't ruin my precious DMR for the sake of more competitive bs. I'm happy with the way the sandbox is right now, and I personally wouldn't want it to be altered if it's not for adding more stuff to it, less if it is for competitive purposes when Halo is a game that should be built first and foremost for its Campaign as it's a game mostly for fun, hence why other FPS games lack the amazing Custom Games Halo does. Fuel Rod needs a buff, not a nerf, Railgun wasn't intended to be a Sniper, you just made that one up, hell, originally is wasn't even hitscan, Gunfighter Magnum is gonna be worthless if it's for close range only because just about everything else for CQC beats it, Sword needs a better hit detection instead of a speed nerf, Grenade Launcher is ok, and Active Camo is already tough to see at it is unless you run around with it or you step right in front of the enemy. While we're at it, why not do some vehicle tuning too? Oh, right, they're not in HCS so they don't matter. Halo should stay unique and stay away from the bloody ESports, it's really pissing me off beyond anything, ESports are turning Halo into a tryhard fest in where people only aims to win, get kills and get better every time. I remember back on the day where most of the people I met didn't care about winning or losing or didn't aim to get better, they just hopped in and had fun, now THAT was Halo at its finest.
Sorry if the rant felt long and off-topic but I felt it necessary for clean my mind. It's not like 343 are gonna bother hearing me anyways even when it's their thread, probably it's just gonna be considered off-topic and dismissed, if not moderated.
Interesting...can't wait to test out the implementation.
I'm really not looking forward to the BR starts. Please I don't want to go back to that nightmare, I mean the magnum is already (In my opinion) a little to powerful for a starting weapon but the BR would just ruin the games fun factor. It would be just like the other games with many weapons being completely forgotten and left being unused. I just don't want to go back to BR's only that got stale fast.
Fishy HCS wrote:
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
The brute shot AND brute spiker should have never been replaced. They were iconic, but eh, I'm not a game dev.
Spiker, I was never really fond of it, but I'd like to see it back regardless, because the more weapons the better, at least for me. But the Brute Shot's role hasn't been properly covered by any other weapon so far, plus they could make variants for it which are even cooler. I swear, if they don't bring it in Halo 6 with the Banished and all I'm gonna be REALLY pissed off, I just want to see that back, everything else to me is optional but welcome nonetheless, but the Brute Shot is a must.
Also, no matter what PLEASE don't ruin my precious DMR for the sake of more competitive bulls***. I'm happy with the way the sandbox is right now, and I personally wouldn't want it to be altered if it's not for adding more stuff to it, less if it is for competitive purposes when Halo is a game that should be built first and foremost for its Campaign as it's a game mostly for fun, hence why other FPS games lack the amazing Custom Games Halo does. Fuel Rod needs a buff, not a nerf, Railgun wasn't intended to be a Sniper, you just made that one up, hell, originally is wasn't even hitscan, Gunfighter Magnum is gonna be worthless if it's for close range only because just about everything else for CQC beats it, Sword needs a better hit detection instead of a speed nerf, Grenade Launcher is ok, and Active Camo is already tough to see at it is unless you run around with it or you step right in front of the enemy. While we're at it, why not do some vehicle tuning too? Oh, right, they're not in HCS so they don't matter. Halo should stay unique and stay away from the bloody ESports, it's really pissing me off beyond anything, ESports are turning Halo into a tryhard fest in where people only aims to win, get kills and get better every time. I remember back on the day where most of the people I met didn't care about winning or losing or didn't aim to get better, they just hopped in and had fun, now THAT was Halo at its finest.
Sorry if the rant felt long and off-topic but I felt it necessary for clean my mind. It's not like 343 are gonna bother hearing me anyways even when it's their thread, probably it's just gonna be considered off-topic and dismissed, if not moderated.
You echo what I've said from the start about the individual weapons, especially as concerns the railgun. We don't need another sniper when we already have three that are virtually identical, especially when the Railgun has such a charge and one round in it at a time.
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im like this but i don't
The railgun is my favorite power weapon to use in H5. It's just so different from all the other weapons, really fun to use, and requires some degree of skill (albeit not as much as a sniper). And the Whiplash is Warzone is SUPER fun, but also requires skill to use well.

Please don't turn the rail into yet another sniper variant. You finally came up with a good design for a power weapon in the railgun, don't turn it into something else. If it's too OP for arena, remove it from the HCS maps or give it less starting ammo in HCS gametypes. But don't totally rework it now that the population has come to love it. IMO it's GOOD that it has some utility at both shorter and longer ranges. Unlike the sniper, you can actually walk around maps with it and stay in motion. The sniper, you need to be an ultra-skilled player to reliably hit no-scopes walking around with the sniper. The rail at least is accessible to folks at the platinum Team Arena ranks, whereas the sniper is purely a camping weapon at those ranks.
Egan Bar wrote:
So that means that there will be a coming update for H5 sandbox? Like new guns/emblems/armors etc...
I hope
It wasn't really made clear in the blogs so I thought I'd ask...will a new rank season be starting across all playlists this month? Or is the current season going to remain in place until the weapon test is over?
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
The railgun is my favorite power weapon to use in H5. It's just so different from all the other weapons, really fun to use, and requires some degree of skill (albeit not as much as a sniper). And the Whiplash is Warzone is SUPER fun, but also requires skill to use well.
Please don't turn the rail into yet another sniper variant. You finally came up with a good design for a power weapon in the railgun, don't turn it into something else. If it's too OP for arena, remove it from the HCS maps or give it less starting ammo in HCS gametypes. But don't totally rework it now that the population has come to love it. IMO it's GOOD that it has some utility at both shorter and longer ranges. Unlike the sniper, you can actually walk around maps with it and stay in motion. The sniper, you need to be an ultra-skilled player to reliably hit no-scopes walking around with the sniper. The rail at least is accessible to folks at the platinum Team Arena ranks, whereas the sniper is purely a camping weapon at those ranks.
This quote I have read a couple of times, and have been trying to understand:
Quote:
...intended role of the Rail Gun is a “sniper” style of weapon...
This seems like a new thing. I never thought of it as this type of weapon. Now that doesn't mean I haven't been playing under a misconception this whole time. However, when I started looking around for a description of this weapon that described it in these terms I found this.

Railgun description from Waypoint This was the most significant statement:
Quote:
Semi-portable electromagnetic launchers have a long lineage in UNSC service, though their weight and bulk limited their use to highly specialized long-range precision sniping roles (cf. M99 Stanchion). However, post-war breakthroughs have shrunk combat-effective electromagnetic launcher systems to the size of bulky rifles, with further refinement and weight savings expected in the near future.
If I undersand this correctly the Rail gun was the answer to weapons like the M99 being limited to sniping, and that there is a suggestion this will be "refined" even further. So does that mean they want to go back on that? This whole "sniper" style weapon claim is kind of baffling.

Finally, they whole it will be changed to require a bit more planning to use. I don't know about y'all but I have been using it that way already. In fact I feel pretty badass when I am able to kill a guy who is hiding around a corner, because I time my charge just right.
Egan Bar wrote:
So that means that there will be a coming update for H5 sandbox? Like new guns/emblems/armors etc...
I hope
All you had to do was scroll down a little farther and you would have seen this was not a possibility. This is about weapon tuning, and patches. There will be no more new for Halo 5 it looks like.

Also, no matter what PLEASE don't ruin my precious DMR for the sake of more competitive -Yoink-. I'm happy with the way the sandbox is right now, and I personally wouldn't want it to be altered if it's not for adding more stuff to it, less if it is for competitive purposes when Halo is a game that should be built first and foremost for its Campaign as it's a game mostly for fun, hence why other FPS games lack the amazing Custom Games Halo does.

Oh, right, they're not in HCS so they don't matter. Halo should stay unique and stay away from the bloody ESports, it's really pissing me off beyond anything, ESports are turning Halo into a tryhard fest in where people only aims to win, get kills and get better every time. I remember back on the day where most of the people I met didn't care about winning or losing or didn't aim to get better, they just hopped in and had fun, now THAT was Halo at its finest.
I never understand this whole idea that competitive cannot be fun as well. That's cool that you and your friends didn't care about winning and losing, because than it wouldn't matter if there were changes made anyway. From what I remember, and Halo still is this way, Customs is a great place for this.

HCS only takes up one playlist. The game is not made around HCS, just like it is not made solely around the campaign, customs, or any of the many modes that are included. They are making sure these changes doesn't affect the game too drastically. I am glad they are doing this test. Next week cannot get here soon enough.
A few things I'd like to ask ske7ch; I'm sure some of this can't be responded to and as I'm writing I realize it's super long, sorry:
1. Why aren't the specs for each weapon readily made available by 343? I'm not just talking about the weapons in the update, but when the game shipped? Things like red reticle range, rate of fire, reload times, perfect kill times, damage per shot, etc. Community members make videos about this but why wouldn't this info be in-game somewhere? Is there a reason to keep this information "hidden" generally? And specifically for this update I'm not sure what "hiding" the information about the weapon changes actually accomplishes - is the belief that the community won't do their own testing and figure out the differences? Again, that's what we do now - so will this be different? Will anyone who wants to know the differences in the weapons not be able to find that information by the end of the first week? I'm just not sure what obfuscating it actually accomplishes. Actually I believe it's a detriment to the new player experience to not have the information readily available. Should I pick up this gun? Why? These things should be clearly stated in a in-game tutorial, 343 produced video, community update - really anything IMO. (And this extends to any functionality in the game that isn't expressly stated - things like flag return times for 1 person vs two people, strongholds capture times for 1 person vs 2/3, etc.)

2. IMO the standard magnum is the most "satisfying" weapon in the game - so it worries me that it is apparently not in the plan for the update. Can you go into the thought process behind making the BR the utility weapon? Was it easier to balance the other weapons around the BR vs the magnum? Or was it more simply just to freshen things up (and the nostalgia doesn't hurt)? I'm not against the change assuming the BR sort of works like the magnum does now, just wondering. And was there any thought given to making the magnum a four shot kill and then balance around that? IMO the starting/utility weapons should be a high lethality/high skill level weapon usable at most ranges and a low lethality/low skill level weapon usable at most ranges - and the pickups should be somewhere in the middle of those extremes with different ranges, creating the "balance". The stated goal of the update is only for competitive playlists, but I feel like not having a low skill level type weapon as a starting weapon (which I doubt either the new gunfighter or BR are) will not be satisfactory for some people. Competitive or casual the point should still to be to have fun and be inclusive of everyone.
A few things I'd like to ask ske7ch; I'm sure some of this can't be responded to and as I'm writing I realize it's super long, sorry:
1. Why aren't the specs for each weapon readily made available by 343? I'm not just talking about the weapons in the update, but when the game shipped? Things like red reticle range, rate of fire, reload times, perfect kill times, damage per shot, etc. Community members make videos about this but why wouldn't this info be in-game somewhere? Is there a reason to keep this information "hidden" generally? And specifically for this update I'm not sure what "hiding" the information about the weapon changes actually accomplishes - is the belief that the community won't do their own testing and figure out the differences? Again, that's what we do now - so will this be different? Will anyone who wants to know the differences in the weapons not be able to find that information by the end of the first week? I'm just not sure what obfuscating it actually accomplishes. Actually I believe it's a detriment to the new player experience to not have the information readily available. Should I pick up this gun? Why? These things should be clearly stated in a in-game tutorial, 343 produced video, community update - really anything IMO. (And this extends to any functionality in the game that isn't expressly stated - things like flag return times for 1 person vs two people, strongholds capture times for 1 person vs 2/3, etc.)

2. IMO the standard magnum is the most "satisfying" weapon in the game - so it worries me that it is apparently not in the plan for the update. Can you go into the thought process behind making the BR the utility weapon? Was it easier to balance the other weapons around the BR vs the magnum? Or was it more simply just to freshen things up (and the nostalgia doesn't hurt)? I'm not against the change assuming the BR sort of works like the magnum does now, just wondering. And was there any thought given to making the magnum a four shot kill and then balance around that? IMO the starting/utility weapons should be a high lethality/high skill level weapon usable at most ranges and a low lethality/low skill level weapon usable at most ranges - and the pickups should be somewhere in the middle of those extremes with different ranges, creating the "balance". The stated goal of the update is only for competitive playlists, but I feel like not having a low skill level type weapon as a starting weapon (which I doubt either the new gunfighter or BR are) will not be satisfactory for some people. Competitive or casual the point should still to be to have fun and be inclusive of everyone.
if they gave the magnum the same damage as the DMR (still 5-shot, but can also 2-shot + melee), that might help a lot to balance out the power of the BR. And nerf the AR damage at medium ranges a bit so you don't get wrecked by an AR if you miss 1 magnum shot.
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