Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Update - Early Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 18
ok, so we've got some people pointing out that adjusting the weapons based on feedback for PvP multiplayer could have unintended consequences for campaign speedrunners. But are you going to take into account any unintended consequences for PvE (i.e. Warzone Firefight)? Or is this update only going to done with PvP in mind? Let me re-post what I said in another thread:
Quote:
Whatever they do, I hope they keep Warzone Firefight in mind. The fact that power weapons are virtually useless in that mode is due to the fact that weapons and vehicles, and their respective req energy requirements, are balanced for PvP Warzone. However, Warzone Firefight seems to be one of the most popular modes, and is the only thing I play in Halo 5 anymore. It would be nice to see them address this issue of power weapons being relatively useless, or at least kept in mind.

They're saying they want "unique roles" for each weapon, but in Warzone Firefight, there is basically no role for any weapon, because vehicles outperform them at every req level, to a ridiculous degree. And if they don't address this issue, then I would at least appreciate an easier way for me to trade my power weapons for vehicles...
As for unintended consequences, imagine this scenario: the assault rifle gets nerfed in some way, due to balancing reasons for PvP. Players therefore have a more difficult time gaining points in round 1 of Warzone Firefight. With less people able to reach req level 3 by the time round 2 starts, they will have a more difficult time with later rounds, and so on. In other words, nerfing the loadout weapons needed for round 1, when everyone is at req level 1, could potentially start a snowball effect that changes the rest of the match.

So I'd really like to know if the team is only focusing on PvP, or if they will keep PvE in mind as well (and campaign, as others have pointed out). I'm looking forward to getting more details on this.
This^ its so annoying if bosses(for example 3 warden eternals) spawn in the back of a homebase bacause almost no vehicles can get there and there spawn way to many "minions" for power weapons to be effective, but i think i have a "solution"(if you can call it that) to that, if you nerve the health and/or shield of enemies and make the less bullet spongy then weapons itself dont have to be nerved(so it doesnt interfere with PvP) but ff becaomes alot more possible, now that i.m talking about firefight..could you PLEASE make firefight like it used to be? Like no time limit, no objectives, just endless rounds and waves, but lives instead of a time limit, like in halo 3 or reach? FF might be the most casual gamemode but it is pretty unbalanced if (for example) knights can survive a all you rocket launcher ammo while you get killed by a few supressor shots, or you need to face 2 legendary knight bosses and 2 mythic warden eternals and there you can in a scorpion and suddenly there spawn like 7 knights with incineration cannons on top of you.

I might.ve said more then i was planning and sound like i.k complaining about everything but it want my intention and i didnt mean to hate or something😅😁 but i would (and probably many others) really appreciate it if you at least pay attention to some of the wz ff stuff(doesnt matter if it is enemy health/dmg/numbers or whatever) 😉😉
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
Also might wanna add some more vehicles like the hornet, spectre, falcon, chopper, prowlers maybe some more forerunner vehicles instead of only the phaeton and let prometheans use warthogs..... As for weapons the brute shot, but the pistol should really be chamged to the h4 pistol(mechanic wise) because now its just a scopeless dmr
Why wouldn't you use your magnum in firefight ? A lot of the early enemies die to a single headshot like crawlers, jackals and grunts
Indeed, I love using my Magnum in round 1 of firefight. So for the sake of my argument, suppose the Magnum gets nerfed. My point remains the same. All I'm trying to say is that I hope they keep PvE in mind when they adjust the sandbox for PvP.
Yea I get what your saying, I just wanted to make sure because I have seen some players using their assault rifle only in firefight. I'm not sure they would nerf the magnum since they call it a utility weapon but who knows. Unfortunately though it seems PvE is an after thought. They probably dont want to use an extra resource for PvE. Firefight needs an update
- Make the whiplash Req 5
- Make Vehicles that are REQ 7 and above (excluding ONI Gauss Hog, Phaetons, and banshees) unable to be boarded. It's silly that a req 8 hannibal tank can be camo jacked, along with hannibal manti, and oni tank/ mantis
- make the pool of radiance shoot slightly faster
- make the level 1 damage boost REQ 4
- Make the Sword Needler warthog level 2 REQ (nobody used it anyway, so it won't do any harm)
- give the oathsworn more range/ or more ammo in the clip (otherwise it's just a lawgiver that lets you run fast)
- Make the standard binary REQ 5 (only 6 shots, no point calling it in ever)
I'm sure there's other weapons which are rendered entirely redundant which I've missed :)
now that i.m talking about firefight..could you PLEASE make firefight like it used to be? Like no time limit, no objectives, just endless rounds and waves, but lives instead of a time limit, like in halo 3 or reach?
Personally, I prefer firefight with infinite lives against a time limit, instead of classic survival firefight with limited lives. If they're going to add that, I'd prefer it to be a separate playlist.
Yea I get what your saying, I just wanted to make sure because I have seen some players using their assault rifle only in firefight. I'm not sure they would nerf the magnum since they call it a utility weapon but who knows. Unfortunately though it seems PvE is an after thought. They probably dont want to use an extra resource for PvE. Firefight needs an update
I completely agree
ske7ch wrote:
Currently we are looking at a plan that will entail a special "walled off" playlist similar to the Proving Grounds that will serve as the test bed.

We have game data and metrics that will be used to assess the changes and compare them to the 'control' version of the weapons. Each tuning adjustment has some specific underlying goas and then they've identified specific metrics/game data to refute or validate those changes. We don't want to specify that "X weapon has changed by Y% in Z way" because communicating that up front doesn't impact how the weapons are used/actually played - we want untainted data and we don't want to introduce player bias into the results. Play as you normally will, see how things feel, we will gather a ton of data and then also offer an official forum for gathering anecdotal feedback.

So yes, I suppose you could call it a "road trip to spot the difference puzzle" but we aren't asking players to spot the difference - we're asking players to play as they normally would to give us pure data and then share some thoughts around if anything felt better/worse/etc... Hope that makes some sense - it's a bit different approach and the Sandbox Team and our 'business intelligence' teams are being very scientific about this as it's not something anyone takes lightly. We'll see how it goes - either way it'll be a great learning experience for the future for the Halo team and the community itself.
Wow, 14 weapons and a power up to work with in one playlist! I can't wait to see how that will work. I wasn't able to play too much of Proving Grounds so I hope to make up for that here by giving you guys a lot of data to look at. I hope it is sooner rather than later.

I am fine with not knowing every little detail before hand, and it sounds like a good start so far. I am all for a little better camo and a little less lunge. The Beam rifle I don't have much stock in. No matter what y'all do to it I won't be a hip shotter anyway.

I am glad you guys contiue to be working on this game almost 2 years later, and look forward to helping out with the changes.

One question: On Monday when you guys are playing, is it in a full party or are y'all searching individually? I want to give myself the best chance of matchging up with you. Gotta get that Ice skin!

P.S. "...underlying goas..." had me scratching my head since Goa is a place in India then I realized you meant goals....well at least I hope so, otherwise I am understand this post all wrong. :)
I am super psyched about this.
Well, so far they have mentioned 3 items for tuning (update here) https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/haze-of-glory. My thoughts are,

  • Sword - Honestly, I'm fine with how the Energy Sword is minus the increase in lung range when you zoom. That should go!
  • Active Camo - Be Interesting to see how it would be if you were invisible completely unless you used a Spartan Ability (Sprint, Thrust, Ground Pound, etc) I would like trying this.
  • Beam Rifle - I like there (343I) suggestion with the beam. Sounds good.
Look forward to hearing more weapon tuning but to me, the biggest epic fail weapon is the scattershot. It's the most inconsistent and frustrating weapon in Halo 5 by a country mile!!! In its current form, I honestly think it should be removed from Ranked play completely.
Does it also include custom games/forge as well or just everything else?
Does it also include custom games/forge as well or just everything else?
The update will be applied across the board

Quote:
Is this only for matchmaking or multiplayer?No - The final outcome of this test will result in tuning adjustments applying to weapons across the entire game (MP, Campaign, & WZ).
If they don't bring anything new to the game, I really don't care a lot. When I read about a Fall Update I instantly jumped at the idea of new weapons and vehicles being added, but if it's just gonna be to tune the currently existing sandbox that's kind of a bummer. I'm not getting the XOneX so idc about the 4K. I'm not competitive at all, I'm casual and happy with the way the weapons work now I'll probably not even notice the tweaks. I wanted to see new stuff added that really refreshes the game and makes me want to play, cause now it's just boring to me. So unless you people give me a nice surprise (still hoping for a Brute Shot) I don't really care. I'll be happy for the bug fixes but that's about it.
Also might wanna add some more vehicles like the hornet, spectre, falcon, chopper, prowlers maybe some more forerunner vehicles instead of only the phaeton and let prometheans use warthogs..... As for weapons the brute shot, but the pistol should really be chamged to the h4 pistol(mechanic wise) because now its just a scopeless dmr
Yeah, but personally if I was to add one single thing, that'd be the Brute Shot (plus variants). There are other things which I'd love to see, but that's the Number 1 to me. But it doesn't look like they'll add anything else to H5. I'd say the actual content updates are over since Monitor's Bounty, and that's what bugs me. Gotta wait for H6!
Hi there. Because we are not currently equipped to provide moderation in other languages, we must ask that all messages be posted in English. Feel free to use an online language translation service, and then create a new thread with the translated text. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Esto esta bien
I really like the sound of this whole idea, and the proposed changes are already really good in my books.

Please do consider giving all automatic weapons a bit more recoil, it wouldn't affect them in their intended function, but it would make them a little bit less effective at range.

Congrats to 343 for the more communicative approach, this is exactly what the community needs.

Oh and one last thing, please consider making the Gravity Hammer have a lot less lunge and more explosion damage/range/force. It doesn't behave all that differently from the Energy Sword with it's current lunge range and it used to be a lot better at displacing actors and vehicles.
I would like a higher chance for the DMR to appear in Requisitions and for its level to be lower in Warzone Firefight. I've owned Halo 5 for sometime now and have never got the DMR as a Req option till now.

Could the railgun and Hydra get ammo refills at Req stations in Warzone Firefight and in the Campaign?
hey folks - Love the feedback and conversation in here, keep it coming!
re: The impact of weapon tuning on other game modes (WZ, Campaign) - There isn't a viable path in Halo 5 to facilitate large scale public testing of these tuning changes in those modes. However, the team is absolutely very aware and paying very close attention to how these changes impact the game outside of standard MP play. There have been many ongoing internal tests with the re-tuned weapons across every game mode and ongoing playtests are still underway. With WZ specifically, the team is also monitoring closely and has other levels to adjust if a particular weapon(s) change ends up having an undesired effect. Lastly, the WZ team is testing some of their own adjustments in parallel - experimenting with some tweaks to the mode itself with a goal if reducing the frequency of lop-sided blow-out matches. Once that comes into better focus we'll share more details!

I can tell you that in regards to the Sword and impact to speed running in particular - the approach the team is taking with the sword specifically will make this a non-issue. I know this is a vague assurance but they've asked that we not divulge weapon-specific adjustments until after the test is rolled out. The sword is somewhat unique in the way it's being addressed in this tuning update though and if you want to rely on the default sword to function exactly as it does now for something like a speed run, you'll be able to do that.
MonkOfWar4 wrote:
I would like a higher chance for the DMR to appear in Requisitions and for its level to be lower in Warzone Firefight. I've owned Halo 5 for sometime now and have never got the DMR as a Req option till now.

Could the railgun and Hydra get ammo refills at Req stations in Warzone Firefight and in the Campaign?
I hate to tell you but SR31 is a drop in the bucket. You may have owned it for a long time, but you haven't been playing it.

Just to give you an idea of where you're at: Max SR Total XP Needed and Its RewardsThe Req level is fine they have lowered it once they don't need to lower it again. Plus the Rail gun and the Hydra are power weapons it make things too easy if we have infinite power weapon ammo. That's no fun.
ske7ch wrote:
hey folks - Love the feedback and conversation in here, keep it coming!
re: The impact of weapon tuning on other game modes (WZ, Campaign) - There isn't a viable path in Halo 5 to facilitate large scale public testing of these tuning changes in those modes. However, the team is absolutely very aware and paying very close attention to how these changes impact the game outside of standard MP play. There have been many ongoing internal tests with the re-tuned weapons across every game mode and ongoing playtests are still underway. With WZ specifically, the team is also monitoring closely and has other levels to adjust if a particular weapon(s) change ends up having an undesired effect. Lastly, the WZ team is testing some of their own adjustments in parallel - experimenting with some tweaks to the mode itself with a goal if reducing the frequency of lop-sided blow-out matches. Once that comes into better focus we'll share more details!

I can tell you that in regards to the Sword and impact to speed running in particular - the approach the team is taking with the sword specifically will make this a non-issue. I know this is a vague assurance but they've asked that we not divulge weapon-specific adjustments until after the test is rolled out. The sword is somewhat unique in the way it's being addressed in this tuning update though and if you want to rely on the default sword to function exactly as it does now for something like a speed run, you'll be able to do that.
Thank you for giving us even more clarification, but if I am understanding correctly it almost sounds like the weapons will behave differently in different modes. Maybe I am reading into what you're saying, since originally it has been stated these changes are being made for all modes.
DaxSeven09 wrote:
ske7ch wrote:
hey folks - Love the feedback and conversation in here, keep it coming!
re: The impact of weapon tuning on other game modes (WZ, Campaign) - There isn't a viable path in Halo 5 to facilitate large scale public testing of these tuning changes in those modes. However, the team is absolutely very aware and paying very close attention to how these changes impact the game outside of standard MP play. There have been many ongoing internal tests with the re-tuned weapons across every game mode and ongoing playtests are still underway. With WZ specifically, the team is also monitoring closely and has other levels to adjust if a particular weapon(s) change ends up having an undesired effect. Lastly, the WZ team is testing some of their own adjustments in parallel - experimenting with some tweaks to the mode itself with a goal if reducing the frequency of lop-sided blow-out matches. Once that comes into better focus we'll share more details!

I can tell you that in regards to the Sword and impact to speed running in particular - the approach the team is taking with the sword specifically will make this a non-issue. I know this is a vague assurance but they've asked that we not divulge weapon-specific adjustments until after the test is rolled out. The sword is somewhat unique in the way it's being addressed in this tuning update though and if you want to rely on the default sword to function exactly as it does now for something like a speed run, you'll be able to do that.
Thank you for giving us even more clarification, but if I am understanding correctly it almost sounds like the weapons will behave differently in different modes. Maybe I am reading into what you're saying, since originally it has been stated these changes are being made for all modes.
Alright well let me just clarify specifically for the sword - which is the only weapon of the bunch that's getting a special treatment. The tuning changes themselves will be globally applied to across every mode in Halo 5. In almost every case, the final updated "re-tuned" version of the weapons after all the testing and iteration is done will "overwrite" their original default settings. The one exception to this is the energy sword - think of it as basically a slightly adjusted "new" version of the sword itself being added to the game for specific needs (i.e. PVP multiplayer). The team definitely doesn't intend for weapons to behave differently in different modes though - a default AR should perform/feel the same in campaign as it does in WZ as it does in PVP. (obviously there are all sorts of variations of the AR that are unique to some modes, etc.. but the base weapon is consistently the same) I think the sword is somewhat unique in that if, for example, the movement speed aspect of it were to be adjusted, it would specifically have repercussions outside of PVP that the team wants to avoid. Make sense?
ske7ch wrote:
DaxSeven09 wrote:
Thank you for giving us even more clarification, but if I am understanding correctly it almost sounds like the weapons will behave differently in different modes. Maybe I am reading into what you're saying, since originally it has been stated these changes are being made for all modes.
Alright well let me just clarify specifically for the sword - which is the only weapon of the bunch that's getting a special treatment. The tuning changes themselves will be globally applied to across every mode in Halo 5. In almost every case, the final updated "re-tuned" version of the weapons after all the testing and iteration is done will "overwrite" their original default settings. The one exception to this is the energy sword - think of it as basically a slightly adjusted "new" version of the sword itself being added to the game for specific needs (i.e. PVP multiplayer). The team definitely doesn't intend for weapons to behave differently in different modes though - a default AR should perform/feel the same in campaign as it does in WZ as it does in PVP. (obviously there are all sorts of variations of the AR that are unique to some modes, etc.. but the base weapon is consistently the same) I think the sword is somewhat unique in that if, for example, the movement speed aspect of it were to be adjusted, it would specifically have repercussions outside of PVP that the team wants to avoid. Make sense?
Thank you, yes, that does make sense. I apologize for needing clarification, and I appreciate the time you took to reply. I think it's great that the speed running guys will not be affected with this. It's a good example of how you guys take the community into consideration.
Aside from weapons, are you guys planning on ever doing some more playlist tuning in the future like changing Oddball so it actually has a skull and the proper announcements for example? Also, adding more gametypes like 1 flag, 1 bomb and KOTH.
  1. 1
  2. ...
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. ...
  7. 18