Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Update - Early Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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RollCats wrote:
Please remove the song of peace from arena and replace with a buffed standard suppressor.

Make storm rifle take more skill to use. All the autos really.
Why, the song of peace takes 3 shots more to kill then an ar, it is not hitscan unlike the ar, and since you descope when aiming down sights, the ar is way more usefull at longer ranges so and the storm rifle is almost useless if used at anything but close range since it doesnt home in like the suppressor does, automatics take more skill to use then you think

PS: in fact i.d like the suppressor to do some more dmg, because the rof(at max speed)and clip size are the only things that ate better then the ar and for forerunner weapons i.d expected alot more
Song of peace is op in areana. And takes very little skill to use.

I've played this game alot, mostly all arena. My opinions are will informed, but I just disagree with you.
Also drasticaly reduce req level of loadout weapons, as its just insane that dmr variants are higher level req then any mythic weapon(any weapon in the game), and make the knight blade more effective because no1 uses it and even for its purpose its almost useless, i mean.....knockback and damage against vehicles? You get splattered or shot down if you even try to get close to a vehicle especialy since the splatter mechanic is sensitive af
Also drasticaly reduce req level of loadout weapons, as its just insane that dmr variants are higher level req then any mythic weapon(any weapon in the game), and make the knight blade more effective because no1 uses it and even for its purpose its almost useless, i mean.....knockback and damage against vehicles? You get splattered or shot down if you even try to get close to a vehicle especialy since the splatter mechanic is sensitive af
on topic of the Knight Blade. its 100%useless. ive always said this.

"if you're close enough to Melee it, Your close enough to Board it"
TryHardFan wrote:
you're going to nerf the sword, NERF THE FRIGGEN SWORD??? what are you guys thinking? it's not overpowered at all unless a guy who knows what he is doing but that's quite rare. a speed nerf i guess that's ok but a lunge nerf no just no perhaps just one would be fine like nerf the lunge and have the speed remain the same to compensate for the lack of range please don't make it useless like H3's sword .
The sword does not need a ridiculously forgiving and long lunge alongside a speed buff in a game filled with Spartan abilities. Forward aggression is so much easier than previous Halos because your speed with the combination of sprint and thrust is more than enough to close the distance for enemies further away. By default, the sword in H5 is already more powerful than any classic halo without all the buffs made to it in CQC. So why would it then be logical to further increase the movement speed or the lunge range of the sword in H5? There are no reasons to do this unless the developers have absolutely no faith in the skill level of Halo's player base.
s for that bolded part, you probably never played arena in maps featuring the sword. It's easy to look like you know what you're doing with the sword when the game holds your hand in that fashion.
really? so you expect every one to decimate everyone on the enemy team with a sword? ha you can't be serious it does take skill to do that, stealth and of course luck. and well I agree to some extent that the sword can be pain as I said only with people who know what they're doing which is rare. and as I said again nerf the speed but keep the lunge the same this wont make it somewhat underpowered. now i don't know if these changes will make the sword underpowered or it's going to make it be in an ok state.
Logged in today to play its just no fun at all. The only weapon I can get a kill with is the SMG. Im relegated to noob combos and the sniper rifle.
really? so you expect every one to decimate everyone on the enemy team with a sword? ha you can't be serious it does take skill to do that, stealth and of course luck. and well I agree to some extent that the sword can be pain as I said only with people who know what they're doing which is rare. and as I said again nerf the speed but keep the lunge the same this wont make it somewhat underpowered. now i don't know if these changes will make the sword underpowered or it's going to make it be in an ok state.
In an arena setting, there will always be at least one person who utilizes the sword to either run away from a losing battle or charge the enemy like a maniac with little consequence. Stealth is almost never a factor when the weapon is more useful for aggression with its speed, so take that out of the picture in terms of skill. As for luck, I'd say it's more so the mechanics put in place that forgive a player for decisions that would otherwise be punishable in older halo games, such as Spartan abilities. The Spartan charge is a crazy example of this in terms of just sprinting at an enemy and getting the kill because the charge prevented him from meleeing you in the process (due to its knockback).

Why shouldn't the lunge be nerfed? The smart-scoped lunge, in particular, is absolutely BS and unnecessary for the game, while serving as an example of 343 trying to make previously niche weapons more versatile in the worst fashion possible. There is already the lunge from simply sprinting and pulling the trigger or spartan-charging (which is also a 1 hit kill), so why does the lunge from aiming have to increase the range even further? I'm sorry that weapons like the sword should only excel in the range that they were designed for (CQC) and never reward players from mindless aggression like Halo 3, but that's impossible with the spartan abilities put in place.

Besides, there is a way to maintain the lunge of the sword without resorting to the lock-on that it always has. All 343 would need to do is create a static lunge that functions independently from the RRR by pressing the trigger, while the melee button gives the regular melee. This static lunge would deplete energy from each use, regardless of whether you hit the enemy or not, and it doesn't lock on to players, forcing you to aim properly and sometimes lead your reticule to actually hit the enemy. Now the sword can actually require more skill as a tier 2 weapon by increasing the aiming skill gap for players, whether it is utilizing the melee button for quicker swipes in CQC or the static lunge to close the distance while maintaining your sword energy levels.
I just hope the Twin Jewels of Maethrillian gets addressed because the hit registration is broken for headshots (see video).
I personally request that Spartan Charge gets nerfed. I know it isn't a weapon, but it is part of the sandbox, and should be looked at. It is far too effective at killing an opponent, mainly because they have almost NO time to react to the attacker, especially if they are already engaged in a gun battle.

Don't believe me, check out the video below.

https://youtu.be/AnfMVE4py0A
I personally request that Spartan Charge gets nerfed. I know it isn't a weapon, but it is part of the sandbox, and should be looked at. It is far too effective at killing an opponent, mainly because they have almost NO time to react to the attacker, especially if they are already engaged in a gun battle.

Don't believe me, check out the video below.

https://youtu.be/AnfMVE4py0A
I agree that this would be a fantastic opportunity to address the Spartan Charge which I do enjoy and believe belongs in the game, but I acknowledge that adjustments are needed.

The tweaking concepts I'd like to pass-on to 343i personally for this mechanic would be these:
  1. Tweak the damage output via a range to damage ratio that focuses on when contact is made within the ability's strike or contact range. This would make the ability's contact damage variable by having it go from a max amount at its initial engagement to a lower amount at its' furthest range; it should tailor down from around it's current damage to a regular melee strike amount.
  2. Link the Spartan Charge (and Ground Pound + Thrust Evade) to some level or amount of impact damage given an impactful contact is made in their use; therefore, causing some damage to the charger.
  3. Lessen its range and aim assist a bit. Perhaps reduce its range by approximately 2 meters and make it a bit more skillful to use by reducing the magnetism related to the aim assist.
  4. Link any use of the Thruster Pack via the Thrust Evade, Spartan Charge, Ground Pound, and Stabilizer to a consistent minor cooldown (~4 sec ?) before being able to make use of it again regardless to the specific ability.
  5. Make the Abilities Tracker that's used for the HCS as a standard Tracker for all Arena (aka Ranked) playlists that include a tracker. SWAT would be the exception.
I personally request that Spartan Charge gets nerfed. I know it isn't a weapon, but it is part of the sandbox, and should be looked at. It is far too effective at killing an opponent, mainly because they have almost NO time to react to the attacker, especially if they are already engaged in a gun battle.

Don't believe me, check out the video below.

http://youtu.be/AnfMVE4py0A
Yes, please I second this. I am in the lower tier of mm, and sometimes all it is are kids running around charging with the AR. It is very frustrating. Especially when you even have the wherewithal to dodge, but the magnetism of the charge still gets ya.

I added a link for you, and it's nice to see you on these forums.
TryHardFan wrote:
really? so you expect every one to decimate everyone on the enemy team with a sword? ha you can't be serious it does take skill to do that, stealth and of course luck. and well I agree to some extent that the sword can be pain as I said only with people who know what they're doing which is rare. and as I said again nerf the speed but keep the lunge the same this wont make it somewhat underpowered. now i don't know if these changes will make the sword underpowered or it's going to make it be in an ok state.
In an arena setting, there will always be at least one person who utilizes the sword to either run away from a losing battle or charge the enemy like a maniac with little consequence. Stealth is almost never a factor when the weapon is more useful for aggression with its speed, so take that out of the picture in terms of skill. As for luck, I'd say it's more so the mechanics put in place that forgive a player for decisions that would otherwise be punishable in older halo games, such as Spartan abilities. The Spartan charge is a crazy example of this in terms of just sprinting at an enemy and getting the kill because the charge prevented him from meleeing you in the process (due to its knockback).

Why shouldn't the lunge be nerfed? The smart-scoped lunge, in particular, is absolutely BS and unnecessary for the game, while serving as an example of 343 trying to make previously niche weapons more versatile in the worst fashion possible. There is already the lunge from simply sprinting and pulling the trigger or spartan-charging (which is also a 1 hit kill), so why does the lunge from aiming have to increase the range even further? I'm sorry that weapons like the sword should only excel in the range that they were designed for (CQC) and never reward players from mindless aggression like Halo 3, but that's impossible with the spartan abilities put in place.

Besides, there is a way to maintain the lunge of the sword without resorting to the lock-on that it always has. All 343 would need to do is create a static lunge that functions independently from the RRR by pressing the trigger, while the melee button gives the regular melee. This static lunge would deplete energy from each use, regardless of whether you hit the enemy or not, and it doesn't lock on to players, forcing you to aim properly and sometimes lead your reticule to actually hit the enemy. Now the sword can actually require more skill as a tier 2 weapon by increasing the aiming skill gap for players, whether it is utilizing the melee button for quicker swipes in CQC or the static lunge to close the distance while maintaining your sword energy levels.
Bold - 100% agree. All melee weapons should not have a range increase when zooming. It's one of (along with the ADS style zooming) worst things in Halo 5.
Also drasticaly reduce req level of loadout weapons, as its just insane that dmr variants are higher level req then any mythic weapon(any weapon in the game), and make the knight blade more effective because no1 uses it and even for its purpose its almost useless, i mean.....knockback and damage against vehicles? You get splattered or shot down if you even try to get close to a vehicle especialy since the splatter mechanic is sensitive af
on topic of the Knight Blade. its 100%useless. ive always said this.

"if you're close enough to Melee it, Your close enough to Board it"
True but if you dont have grenades and need to melee it u might as well use knight blade, also in wzff u cant hijack vehicles and when timed right you can even prevent a splatter from a vehicle when combined with a backward thrust
My favorite thing in the game is the wasp. I was quite sad when I heard it was bumping up a req level. I instantly thought, "Why not lower the rail gun to req 3?" I mean think about it. Regular rail is 4. Whiplash is also 4, and why pull out a slow charging, slow reload variant when you can have one with all the bells and whistles. I make you this proposal, 343. Lower all the wasps down a level, and put the base rail gun to 3, so that way the rail guns go with their corresponding wasp. 3,4,5 all the way!
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Woohoo! It is finally Thursday, Community Update Day, and I can't wait to see what weapon changes will be revealed to us today! Here's to hoping for that AR change, and maybe a little SMG, but please please leave my Carbine alone.
I always wonder though...
If a weapon is tweaked, does it effect the campaign weapons?
I always wonder though...
If a weapon is tweaked, does it effect the campaign weapons?
The answer to that question is in the OP:

ske7ch wrote:
Is this only for matchmaking or multiplayer? No - The final outcome of this test will result in tuning adjustments applying to weapons across the entire game (MP, Campaign, & WZ).
Also we were told on page 2:
ske7ch wrote:
hey folks - Love the feedback and conversation in here, keep it coming!
re: The impact of weapon tuning on other game modes (WZ, Campaign) - There isn't a viable path in Halo 5 to facilitate large scale public testing of these tuning changes in those modes. However, the team is absolutely very aware and paying very close attention to how these changes impact the game outside of standard MP play. There have been many ongoing internal tests with the re-tuned weapons across every game mode and ongoing playtests are still underway. With WZ specifically, the team is also monitoring closely and has other levels to adjust if a particular weapon(s) change ends up having an undesired effect. Lastly, the WZ team is testing some of their own adjustments in parallel - experimenting with some tweaks to the mode itself with a goal if reducing the frequency of lop-sided blow-out matches. Once that comes into better focus we'll share more details!

I can tell you that in regards to the Sword and impact to speed running in particular - the approach the team is taking with the sword specifically will make this a non-issue. I know this is a vague assurance but they've asked that we not divulge weapon-specific adjustments until after the test is rolled out. The sword is somewhat unique in the way it's being addressed in this tuning update though and if you want to rely on the default sword to function exactly as it does now for something like a speed run, you'll be able to do that.
So, in answer to your question it looks like that would be a yes. But they are making sure it doesn't change them to the point where it has a negative affect on campaign. I encourage you to stay up to date on what is happening with this so that when the opportunity arrives you will be able to participate in the playlist. The more we play there the more data they have to help them finalize the changes.
Railgun getting nerfed; fuel rod (already nearly useless in this iteration) is getting a nerf.
Since when is the railgun meant to be a sniper weapon? Since when is the fuel rod too rapid-fire? Someone tell me what's wrong with this situation. I certainly hope SOMETHING is getting a boost beyond the camo.
"Last week, 343’s handsome herald of community concerns – ske7ch, obviously – paid our humble pages a visit to talk about the opening salvo of upcoming sandbox adjustments being planned for Halo 5 in the near future. We know we could just dump all these obviously-completely-done-and-just-sitting-there tuning details all at one time, but we wouldn't want to deprive the world of any politely-postulated forum posts, would we? If you're excited to read up on the next set of weapons getting some friendly tune-ups, our man ske7ch has got you covered... take it away, Brian!"

If that isn't a blatant jab on the Team Beyond forums, then idk what is.
Railgun getting nerfed; fuel rod (already nearly useless in this iteration) is getting a nerf.
Since when is the railgun meant to be a sniper weapon? Since when is the fuel rod too rapid-fire? Someone tell me what's wrong with this situation. I certainly hope SOMETHING is getting a boost beyond the camo.
I'm guessing there gonna tone down the aim assist and increase the charge time to make it less effective at close range. Just taking away ammo from it was just a short term fix to a long term problem I'd imagine.

As for the Fuel Rod, it was too overbearing and forgiving when on the giving end. Especially in the first year of H5 when power weapons were a plenty to go around on those maps. At least there's some planning with the rockets.
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