Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] Weapon Tuning Update - Early Discussion Thread

OP ske7ch

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Honestly, if it came down to the two, I would hands-down ditch the sniper. However, I would rather not ditch either and have a railgun that serves in its current form, rather than forcing it into contention with the sniper weapons.
Why would you ditch the sniper that can be designed to be more skillful and versatile than something as dull as the rail gun?

How would you suggest the rail gun to be designed without contending the snipers?
ske7ch wrote:
This whole thing makes me wonder if 343's people are making decisions by playing a few matches and saying, 'aw, bull, I should have had that kill' and 'some noob killed me; nerf that!' rather than taking into account how the weapons function and the enjoyment gained by using a power weapon.
No.
Heh, just checking; no need to get defensive. It's how the rest of the world looks at games while playing them, so I would be surprised if sometimes people have to fight to suppress that urge on the creative side. I'm just not sure that kill stats are the best indicator if how to improve a game is all.
Keep up the good work! Despite how it may sound, I do generally have faith in 343 and the great job you all do with games.
TryHardFan wrote:
Honestly, if it came down to the two, I would hands-down ditch the sniper. However, I would rather not ditch either and have a railgun that serves in its current form, rather than forcing it into contention with the sniper weapons.
Why would you ditch the sniper that can be designed to be more skillful and versatile than something as dull as the rail gun?

How would you suggest the rail gun to be designed without contending the snipers?
To your first question, I simply find it more fun to play with. To the second, I would leave it as is, perhaps turn down the zoom so it may focus its efforts on the mid-range.
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Hey guys ! How do I check when the next weekly 343 play date will be on? How do I know when the 343 team is playing? Where do I have to go to on halowaypoint to check?
Adolince wrote:
Hey guys ! How do I check when the next weekly 343 play date will be on? How do I know when the 343 team is playing? Where do I have to go to on halowaypoint to check?
Check the Community Update that we get every week on Thursday. It is located in the News section. Keep in mind 343 works on Pacific time. So depending on the time zone you are in it will be posted anywhere from mid afternoon to early evening PST. For instance I am in the Eastern time zone, and it was not until around 10pm that the update was posted.

Finally, if you have a Twitter account I would suggest following Halo as well as some of the main employees since they are the ones who play, and they will tweet before starting.

Good luck, they only play for an hour and in a team. I would suggest teaming up to have a better chance of matching them.
You know I was just browsing through the topic and I had to reread part of it. Campaign? The balancing will affect campaign too? Will reserve ammo be addressed? Can I finally carry enough ammo to last through at least one firefight?

CE had the best system, ten spare mags worth for the AR and Magnum, six for the Sniper. Rarely ever ran out unless I was careless.

Would be nice if you guys just patched in an unlockable bandana skull too and make it a standard feature in all future Halo shooters...
I like the update, 343 great job :)
Maybe there should be a game mode testing the weapon changes before they come out so that players can give feedback.
mike02511 wrote:
I like the update, 343 great job :)
What do you like about the update? Can you be more specific? That is such a broad statement that could mean anything.

They are asking for feedback, and putting a lot of time and energy into this weapon tuning for us. The least we can do is make an effort to give more than we like it or not.

Omar O88 wrote:
Maybe there should be a game mode testing the weapon changes before they come out so that players can give feedback.
There is going to be. We just don't know when.

ske7ch wrote:
And remember - all of these weapon tuning changes will first be released in a test-capacity, so all players across the community will have an opportunity to help playtest and share feedback (along with lots of gameplay data) with the Sandbox Team. Ultimately, after testing has concluded and the data and feedback is digested, the final adjustments will be made, and will be added globally to Halo 5 in a game update targeted for later this fall.
Thoughts on 8/17 blog update:

ske7ch wrote:
Last week we kicked off a conversation to let players know that the Halo Sandbox Team has been working on some tuning tweaks to a variety of weapons across Halo 5. Many details and specifics for this test program are still being finalized but in the coming weeks we'll be providing more insight into which weapons are being adjusted and some high level context behind it.

If you haven't already, check out the following resources for additional info (more to be added in the days/weeks ahead):
  • Read about the overall impetus for the tuning change and how the team is approaching it in this blog post.
  • Read more about the first few weapons being included in this tuning test in this blog post. (Active Camo, Energy Sword, and Beam Rifle)
  • More weapon info in the 8/17 community update blog (Fuel Rod Cannon, Grenade Launcher, and Rail Gun)
Very interesting read, I like this "few at a time" approach.

Suggestion:
I think that we can provide much better & more useful feedback if we know what exactly you're looking to fix?...

For example:
The rail gun part makes a ton of sense and it's really cool to see what, in particular, is the design philosophy behind it and where the issue lies...
But fuel rod?
Very sparse info here, I'm not sure what kind of feedback you're looking for here.
Could you be more specific?

Or is it more of a case that, the overall "role" is fine, but the "overall strength" is not?
Would be really useful if we had some kind of a "starting point" as to what is dis-satisfactory about its current form.

Also, is there some point later on in these updates that you guys will go into "possible solutions" that you are currently considering?
How can we offer any insight for or against a particular type of fix, if we don't even know what the current considerations are?
... or is the point, right now, just to get the most general of feedback, without the potential bias of letting us know too much about current considerations?

Either assumption to either of the 2 above points would be fine I think, but it would be nice to have a more "explicit" & straight-forward guide to the process here
-- what, exactly, are you looking to get out of this thread?
I know, I know: "early discussion" -- but what particular type of feedback will be taken away?
General suggestions?
Possible problems?
Or are you just looking to tell us about weapon balancing, rather than actually looking for feedback?

There's only so much we can do without a clear direction... :/
Some more explicit clarity would be greatly appreciated.

-----

As for this week's items:

Rail gun:
I think this one's pretty easy: less aim assist.
Since day 1 of launch, 9/10 complaints I've heard about rail gun is simply that it's too easy to aim.

Lowering the aim assist would make it more difficult at close range, while preserving the "sniper" functionality (since you're mostly using left stick/walking to aim at longer ranges anyway, so aim assist matters much less).
That being said, I don't recall ever seeing discussion around this "sniper" aspect.. I mean it might be capable of longer ranges, but I don't think that's really where it tends to get used anyway, and I think people are kind of fine with the med-long range capability that it currently has (other than the magnetism issues of course, though lowering this would also create just as many increased complaints about its inconsistency).
Beyond that, I think just a general reduction in ammo is fine.

If you really want to go one step further, I guess you could add a sort of "cone-shaped" splash damage, where the splash area is "longer" in the direction that it was shot from.
This lets you make it less effective at short range by raising the risk of suicide, but does not increase its overall area of effect that would happen as a result of a uniform change to the radius.
So basically: keep the side-to-side radius, but add a bit of a "cone" radius towards the direction that it was shot from.

Fuel Rod:
The unfortunate part about this one is that it's highly dependant upon the context.

At high level play such as HCS, I see what the pros are saying -- you get a lot of kills for only a little bit of risk.
But at more "normal" levels of gameplay, it's pretty difficult to use. The effective range is really situation-specific, and a rifle can usually out-gun it from a lot of angles.
And against AI (campaign+warzone), it's pretty much trash due to limited "total damage" for the amount of REQ points it costs.

I think the biggest thing here is just to lower the ammo in Arena gametypes and raise it in warzone firefight.
Beyond that, I'm not too sure where to go with things because I don't know what 343's intended purpose for it is, other than as a weaker-but-faster rocket launcher...
Certainly, letting it "bounce" super easy is an obvious one -- this makes it so you need to pretty much dead-hit in Arena, but yet it's not a huge additional hurdle against the larger/more crowded AI in other situations. However, this may require a slight increase to the projectile speed to compensate for more low-mid tier gameplay.

Grenade launcher:
Love this weapon but I haven't gotten much use with it so I can't say too confidently what the issue is.
And again, there's not too much detail in the blog about what issues you're finding with it, so finding a starting point would be difficult anyway.
But overall, I guess just keep Halo: Reach in mind because it was loved both competitively & casually there.
Not sure what I'm looking for but I don't notice any changes as of last night
Just played CTF on Halo 4 earlier, the Mantis Stomp in that was soooo good. Too good maybe. But it made me realize just how pathetically weak the Halo 5 stomp is. If the tuning isn't already complete, please please pleeeaaase consider buffing the damage the stomp does, and perhaps its AoE just slightly? T__T
Not sure what I'm looking for but I don't notice any changes as of last night
These changes have not happened yet. So there is nothing to notice. In fact there was something about some of the changes being so slight they might not be all that noticeable.

Read the full post again and follow the links as well. That way you will get all information. I apologize that I am not adding quick links for you, but that stuff is all there for you to read.
Warzone weapons I find under powered:
Fuel rod - projectiles travel too slow
Pool of radiance - same as above
All binaries - worse than snipers in every way
Incineration cannon - don't see any benefit over rockets
River of light - even worse than standard
CE pistol - why not just get an answer/sniper? Better as level 5.
Dying star - not great for the req level. Could use damage buff too
Plasma turret - absolutely horrible. Needs buffs in all areas.
Rocket turrets - same as above.
Oathsworn - worse than blaze in every way. Needs something.

Weapons over powered
Whiplash - reduce aim assist
Answer - ttk way too low
Spitfire - should reduce vehicle stun. Completely suppresses even with wheelman.
Warzone weapons I find under powered:
Fuel rod - projectiles travel too slow
Pool of radiance - same as above
All binaries - worse than snipers in every way
Incineration cannon - don't see any benefit over rockets
River of light - even worse than standard
CE pistol - why not just get an answer/sniper? Better as level 5.
Dying star - not great for the req level. Could use damage buff too
Plasma turret - absolutely horrible. Needs buffs in all areas.
Rocket turrets - same as above.
Oathsworn - worse than blaze in every way. Needs something.

Weapons over powered
Whiplash - reduce aim assist
Answer - ttk way too low
Spitfire - should reduce vehicle stun. Completely suppresses even with wheelman.
The rocket pod turrets would almost be worth calling in if they had more ammo. The "ultra rare" base one runs out so darn quickly, and don't offer much benefit for the level they're at - even in WZA. The ONI rocket pod turret is marginally better, since it can actually lock-on and has more ammunition AND fires more missiles per round, but still a hefty REQ cost for what little it does. I get more usage out of the Splinter Turret than I do the rocket pod ones.

I don't see the Plasma Turret ever being made useful, and I somewhat doubt the Pool of Radiance can ever be better than the Light of Urs. The slow rate of fire on the Radiance is just one of many problems the thing has.
Of course they will be decreasing weapons to make them less powerful and efficient but will they be making other weapons more powerful and efficient? And will they be hot fixing vehicles?
NMAurora wrote:
Of course they will be decreasing weapons to make them less powerful and efficient but will they be making other weapons more powerful and efficient? And will they be hot fixing vehicles?
Far as I can tell, it's weapons (and Active Camo) only this time around. Which means the mantis-stomp will continue to be underpowered and probably will continue to do so until Halo 6. Whether or not it's laughably weak there too we'll just have to see. I feel it should be a middle ground between the underpowered Halo 5 version and the "Terribly overpowered" Halo 4 version. I've stomped unshielded spartans before only for it to do nothing. I've stomped with the Hannibal and it didn't EMP the vehicle (Since it wasn't directly on top of me...). The strength seems to be far too low, and the radius of the stomp seems to be just as low.
Yeah, I've gotten a few kills with it. But it just seems not worth using most of the time. Instead of trying to stomp someone charging at you, just back off instead.
I'm intrigued on how they're going to tune the weapons and what weapons they are tuning
Sylxeria wrote:
NMAurora wrote:
Of course they will be decreasing weapons to make them less powerful and efficient but will they be making other weapons more powerful and efficient? And will they be hot fixing vehicles?
Far as I can tell, it's weapons (and Active Camo) only this time around. Which means the mantis-stomp will continue to be underpowered and probably will continue to do so until Halo 6. Whether or not it's laughably weak there too we'll just have to see. I feel it should be a middle ground between the underpowered Halo 5 version and the "Terribly overpowered" Halo 4 version. I've stomped unshielded spartans before only for it to do nothing. I've stomped with the Hannibal and it didn't EMP the vehicle (Since it wasn't directly on top of me...). The strength seems to be far too low, and the radius of the stomp seems to be just as low.
Yeah, I've gotten a few kills with it. But it just seems not worth using most of the time. Instead of trying to stomp someone charging at you, just back off instead.
Understood
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