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Why Did Everyone Hate Advanced Movement In Halo?

OP Tresor564

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So, I've been a fan of Halo since halo reach and I've played and enjoyed the older halo's a lot.

-Halo 5 has been my favorite shooter that I've ever played because I felt like the advanced movement gave Halo a new level of depth and really increased the games skill gap and made strafing a more important element as well as how the game can change from a slow paced slower game to a fast paced game in less than half a second and how challenging the fast or slow the combat can be a higher levels.

- Honestly It perplexes me how much the halo fan base hates advanced movement and some even sprint

- So if you do love advanced movement or hate is please comment it below and why?

Edit: If you have some disagreements w people in the comments please do your best to keep things professional and civil
I'm not sure if we really need another "advanced" movement thread
Because it is fundamentally just not what I want out of a Halo game. If you love that style, great I'm happy for you, but it just isn't what I pick up a mainline Halo for.

Everything you said regarding pacing, speed, and skill gap can just as easily apply to CE which still has a large skill gap. In fact I would argue it still has the largest skillgap and is the fastest paced Halo game with needed to front-load the game new abilities.

"Advanced Mobility" isn't really addition or improvement as much as it is just change and not everyone is going to enjoy that change in this particular context. It shouldn't be at all surprising that some players are going to dislike changes to core gameplay like sprint and friends.
WerepyreND wrote:
Because it is fundamentally just not what I want out of a Halo game. If you love that style, great I'm happy for you, but it just isn't what I pick up a mainline Halo for.

Everything you said regarding pacing, speed, and skill gap can just as easily apply to CE which still has a large skill gap. In fact I would argue it still has the largest skillgap and is the fastest paced Halo game with needed to front-load the game new abilities.

"Advanced Mobility" isn't really addition or improvement as much as it is just change and not everyone is going to enjoy that change in this particular context. It shouldn't be at all surprising that some players are going to dislike changes to core gameplay like sprint and friends.
I feel you I see what you mean the changes that advanced movement made is a large change from the traditional formula, on the CE point though it does have a large skill gap with having to lead your shots but the terrible spawns and the bad maps sort of ruined the experience for me to be honest.
I'm not sure if we really need another "advanced" movement thread
more of a curiosity thread tbh
Tresor564 wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Because it is fundamentally just not what I want out of a Halo game. If you love that style, great I'm happy for you, but it just isn't what I pick up a mainline Halo for.

Everything you said regarding pacing, speed, and skill gap can just as easily apply to CE which still has a large skill gap. In fact I would argue it still has the largest skillgap and is the fastest paced Halo game with needed to front-load the game new abilities.

"Advanced Mobility" isn't really addition or improvement as much as it is just change and not everyone is going to enjoy that change in this particular context. It shouldn't be at all surprising that some players are going to dislike changes to core gameplay like sprint and friends.
I feel you I see what you mean the changed that advanced movement made is a large change from the traditional formula, on the CE point though it does have a large skill gap with having to lead your shots but the terrible spawns and the bad maps sort of ruined the experience for me to be honest.
I'm referring to 2v2 which the game was obviously built for, neither spawns and maps are fine. But that isn't really the point because each Halo game has its own flaws we could point out. The point was that CE has depth that goes far beyond simply needing to lead your shots, the depth is woven into every part of the game and are not limited just layering on more core mechanics.

Being simple to pick up and play doesn't keep the game from having an enormous skill gap or keep it from being an incredibly fast-paced game.
Just watch the dozens of videos on YouTube. They explain it down to a tee.
For me, the advanced movements fundamentally change the way Halo is designed and plays. It's not a bad thing, but it's not what I look for when I play Halo. I play Halo for the modularity and accesibility that the Bungie games brought. Besides, Titanfall did movement much better, imo.

With sprint and thrusters, we were introduced to an abundance of lanes in the 4v4 map design, which isn't what most 4v4 maps were like before. Before, many of the maps were open in nature and allowed cross-map kills, which isn't really possible in a vast majority of the new maps. Compare the transitions between rooms/areas in any Halo map with the old and new design. With the new map design, holding an angle and gaining control of an area is given stronger priority than controlling where the enemy spawns. There is more of a Counter-Strike and Call of Duty influence in their design, even though the movement isn't completely dissimilar to either game. Players are forced to follow a set path between rooms/areas and aren't allowed much leeway in explosive or Mario jumps.

As for the pace of the game, the only thing that's faster is open-area combat. When people are fighting each other across a room or on opposite sides of a transition area, the combat resorts to a peek-a-boo shootout because of health and shield regeneration being disabled when sprinting. You're unable to move in a manner that allows you to fight closer to each other without being at a disadvantage. The downtime between combat rounds is increased due to the increase in map size and enclosed nature of the maps. You might be doing more when in combat, but when you're out of combat, the game turns into a hide-and-seek scenario.

I could go on all day, but that's the main gist of why I don't like mandatory advanced movement in Halo. I actually don't mind it, but advanced movement must be map pickup Armor Abilities to allow Custom Game, Forge, and multiplayer creators more options in how they want Halo to play. Reach was a step in the right direction for evolving Halo, but 343 looked at what Reach did in the wrong way. Because of it's modularity, MLG and the MCC Team Hardcore playlist used map pickups as a way to incorporate advanced movement. We could have had dual wielding, equipment, and Armor Abilities in one game if 343 was actually focused on giving players control. If Halo Reach's gameplay isn't a template for Infinite, I'm not sure if I'll ever come back to Halo.

tl;dr I don't like it because of how it changed map design and the out-of-combat pacing, but if advanced movement has to be included, do it like Reach Hardcore where it can be a map pickup. The more modular Halo is, the better it'll be in the long run for both Classic and Enhanced movement fans.
People dislike the enhanced movement mechanics because they fundamentally changed how the game play worked.

In the original games, you never really lost the ability to shoot, melee, or throw grenades at any time. You performed skill jumps to get into areas of the map but you could still shoot, melee and throw grenades at any time. You could also freely spin in 360 degrees without any pause in movement.

With the enhanced movement mechanics, you lose those abilities in order to sprint, or clamber, or thrust, etc. It sounds like an enhancement to the movement sandbox, but the maps were also changed to accommodate the new abilities.

For example, the map Midship was stretched in Halo 5 so "sprinting" from one location to another takes just as long in Halo 5 as it did in Halo 2. The difference is that in Halo 2 you could also shoot, melee and throw grenades during that movement across the map. In Halo 5, you could not or it will drop you out of sprinting before allowing you to engage an enemy player in any way.

So it begs the question, "Is this really an enhancement?"
People dislike the enhanced movement mechanics because they fundamentally changed how the game play worked.

In the original games, you never really lost the ability to shoot, melee, or throw grenades at any time. You performed skill jumps to get into areas of the map but you could still shoot, melee and throw grenades at any time. You could also freely spin in 360 degrees without any pause in movement.

With the enhanced movement mechanics, you lose those abilities in order to sprint, or clamber, or thrust, etc. It sounds like an enhancement to the movement sandbox, but the maps were also changed to accommodate the new abilities.

For example, the map Midship was stretched in Halo 5 so "sprinting" from one location to another takes just as long in Halo 5 as it did in Halo 2. The difference is that in Halo 2 you could also shoot, melee and throw grenades during that movement across the map. In Halo 5, you could not or it will drop you out of sprinting before allowing you to engage an enemy player in any way.

So it begs the question, "Is this really an enhancement?"
You made some good points there but on the midship thing what people don’t understand is that u r supposed to combine the movements together in a combo to go faster which would get you there faster. With clamber most people opt to do it only when they have to most people crouch h jump on platforms when they can. And if you look deeply into the designs of the maps there are a lot of skill jumps you could do with advanced movement.

Overall though I think I catch ur drift though
Tbh I feel like advanced movement , if nerfed a bit in some areas and expanded on in other areas could be quite a welcome addition to the sandbox and even pay dues to the lore and roles of a spartan.

So essentially, what comes to mind is when would master chief need to use such an option... and what comes to mind is: breaking a fall from high heights, moving in zero g scenarios, and perhaps giving that extra few feet/meters when leaping a gap. Or maybe like to jump just a little higher.

When I think about it , when the thrusters were used in cutscenes and trailers they were always toned down and used in those scenarios. Halo 4 teaser trailer showcases master chief using it to navigate the rubble. Halo 4 intro showcases a bunch of Spartans using it to break the fall. Halo 5 guardians trailers showcase master cheif using it to leap a gap. Halo 5 guardians show both blue team and Osiris using it to navigate space and air. Fitting roles imo.

You know how some games allow you to move mid air ? Like you can jump initially in one direction but then change the direction of the jump mid air ? Yea .
But smooth transition and not so sudden.

I think using advanced mobility to traverse the map faster, or dodge projectiles doesn’t seem like a practical or particularly useful mechanic. Maps just get wider. Weaponry gets more tedious.

Tedious, and not challenging .
moving on... sliding I don’t really see a problem with. Clamber ... hmm... I think more better used in machinimas... but idk ... you have seen ai use I think since halo 2? It’s been in the game but not usable by player.
Sprint isn’t a feature that I believe can be done right .... however I do believe the ability to fire your weapon always isn’t important . So ... hip fire while sprinting I think would be cool. Also... we could just have it’s limitation that you can’t change the direction of motion as fast as you look and turn. (Imagines a spartan drifting while running XD)
That way it won’t be much use in close quarters and tight spaces, while In larger open space space helps you traverse without a vehicle.
Maybe instead of sprint as a button toggle feature it’s just something you naturally accelerate into over time if traveling in a straight line (still can shoot while sprinting)
i think that’s a way to enhance gameplay.
Controls can be self intuitive. Like holding “a” to stay a little longer in the air. Or just holding the thumb stick in the forward position to accelerate into sprint over time. Or using thumbstick in air to guide motion in air. I think with self intuitive features like those that don’t break the pace , have their limitations as to not be game breaking (like the time to get to a Max Speed Be elongated... ) it probably can work out pretty well
Tresor564 wrote:
So, I've been a fan of Halo since halo reach and I've played and enjoyed the older halo's a lot.

-Halo 5 has been my favorite shooter that I've ever played because I felt like the advanced movement gave Halo a new level of depth and really increased the games skill gap and made strafing a more important element as well as how the game can change from a slow paced slower game to a fast paced game in less than half a second and how challenging the fast or slow the combat can be a higher levels.

- Honestly It perplexes me how much the halo fan base hates advanced movement and some even sprint

- So if you do love advanced movement or hate is please comment it below and why?
love it i have been playing halo since 2003, it was great but upgrade is welcome and Halo 5 improved the game play style.
Tresor564 wrote:
what people don’t understand is that u r supposed to combine the movements together in a combo to go faster which would get you there faster.
It doesn't what you're supposed to do if it's something you don't enjoy...I play Halo because I enjoyed the simplistic yet skillfull gameplay of older Halos, I don't like the over-the-top, button mashing, ADHD-style gameplay of H5. It's that simple.
In HCE you're supposed to manipulate spawns, which you either don't understand or don't like. Either way it's reason enough for to dismiss it as "terrible" and no amount of explaining how you're playing the game wrong will convince you otherwise.
I like some of H5's like thrust and clamber. I think people just wanted a prettier H3 with new maps and H5 was basically the opposite lol
Clamber takes away the skill of timing your jumps and crouching at the right time mid jump to reach certain platforms. Sprint is what caused Halo maps to become overly large compared to old Halo maps. It also makes it so that your gun isn't at ready so if you're sprinting and someone starts shooting you you've basically lost if they're good. Sprint also allows players to more easily avoid being punished if they peak out too far. Spartan bash is just something I'm personally not a fan of with the way it pushes the enemy back and pretty much guarantees you an easy headshot unless you wiff it. The ground pound made it too easy to kill enemies in one hit from above. Thrusters made it too easy for players to avoid being punished for their misakes when they peak out too much or push too far.

The only advanced feature I don't mind is the hover because it doesn't really take anything away from traditional Halo gameplay.

I respect anyone's opinion who disagress, but I got the MCC a month or so ago and honestly Halo 2 and 3 have held up far better than Halo 5 did in my opinion. Now I know this is just my personal experience, but everything about advanced movement takes away from what made Halo truly be Halo. Halo 5 just feels like every other shooter where you can sprint, climb and boost around. It's not near as unique as the old games were.
Because they did changed the game, in my opinion 343 should keep clamber, truster and a limited sprint ability
Halo's simplicity is a defining characteristic of the franchise. Basic movement mechanics with weapons, grenades, and melee create a shooter that's easy to learn but difficult to master. The more you move away from that, the more you abandon what made the franchise more than just another shooter. Combine an abandoned identity with strict design limitations on maps and weapons because of advanced movement, and you get a game that may as well be an entirely different franchise.

Just as people don't watch Star Wars for psychological horror, people don't play Halo for Titanfall's pilot gameplay. Unless they can ignore the title on the game's case and judge it strictly as a video game, identity-compromising changes are difficult to accept.
"Everyone" seems like a bit of a stretch really. From what I've gathered during my time around Waypoint, watching Streams, and talking to people online, is that it's really more of a mixed bag and it's just the people that hate X or Y or Z feature simply speak up the loudest while people who are neutral or actually like them are more muted or totally drowned out under the "I HATE THIS!" talk. Not even just in Halo either, but in general. The loudest opinion is almost always one that's negative, while positive ones somehow feel the need to keep the opinion to themselves.

I can totally imagine this being the reason why there's no gameplay shown yet - they haven't fully given up on the "Advanced" movement and don't want people judging it early because of that. I honestly feel people are getting too worked up over the movement topic really and making way too big a deal out of it, but that's just me.
Beating a dead horse.
To sum it all up its pretty much this.

Enhanced mobility brings consequences to the other core mechanics of the game, while previously there weren't consequences. I.e. You can't shoot while you sprint in halo 5.
I would say 1/2 the players( the vocal kind) and clout chasing youtubers(who legit flip flop opinions from release then 2 years from launch as they are not popular anymore) say that these consequences defeat the purpose of what halo multiplayer was to begin with. I.e. should be no restrictions in combat.

Also many of the "OG" Halo fans are much older and did not grow up playing the twitch shooters which are overdone today. Which means they are not adapted to the fast pace gameplay of 5. Therefore the gameplay which can be fun at time for them is mostly not enjoyable.

Personally i loved 5 multiplayer, and would rather them just remove ground pound and spartan charge as they are just cheating mechanics. Sprint i would be happy being removed if base player speed was increased as compensation so we could justify having the other abilities, such as slide, clamber, and thrust stabilizers. They are good mechanics with little to no restrictions and are 100% player controlled.
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