Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

Why is Magnum so meta in competitive play?

OP TheRevengfulOne

I tend to lose most gun fights unless i use my pistol it seems a little ridiculous
Not really... Halo has always had a main utility weapon. HCE it's the pistol, H2/3 it was the BR, Reach/H4 pretty much the DMR. H5 has excellent weapon balance over all still as most weapons are actually useful when used in the right time and place compared to other Halo games.
Used to be you could use other precision weapons to great effect, especially the BR. Those were some incredibly fun and challenging engagements, when your weapons worked properly and all you had to focus on was your personal skill, SA’s not withstanding.

For some illogical reason, 343i decided to have those weapon tuning updates in late 2017 to basically force the Magnum to be the workhorse and be better than nearly every other precision weapon, save for the H2BR. Maybe to try and place another stamp that says, “This is our game now,” who knows. But yeah, no way to avoid using Magnums in every engagement. It’s the main reason I stopped playing the core modes like Slayer in H5 and began to find Firefight boring and annoying also.
tuhin94 wrote:
For some illogical reason, 343i decided to have those weapon tuning updates in late 2017 to basically force the Magnum to be the workhorse and be better than nearly every other precision weapon, save for the H2BR. Maybe to try and place another stamp that says, “This is our game now,” who knows. But yeah, no way to avoid using Magnums in every engagement. It’s the main reason I stopped playing the core modes like Slayer in H5 and began to find Firefight boring and annoying also.
I would argue that the Carbine and DMR still hold up well against the magnum in their respective roles, but the BR and AR have fallen to the wayside.

In response to OP each Halo title has had their utility weapon, Halo 5 is no different.
tuhin94 wrote:
For some illogical reason, 343i decided to have those weapon tuning updates in late 2017 to basically force the Magnum to be the workhorse and be better than nearly every other precision weapon, save for the H2BR. Maybe to try and place another stamp that says, “This is our game now,” who knows. But yeah, no way to avoid using Magnums in every engagement. It’s the main reason I stopped playing the core modes like Slayer in H5 and began to find Firefight boring and annoying also.
I would argue that the Carbine and DMR still hold up well against the magnum in their respective roles, but the BR and AR have fallen to the wayside.

In response to OP each Halo title has had their utility weapon, Halo 5 is no different.
Oh yeah, totally agreed. Only issue is that they're pickups in Arena and either consumable or high level REQs in Warzone, so they don't have too strong of a presence.
LethalQ wrote:
Not really... Halo has always had a main utility weapon. HCE it's the pistol, H2/3 it was the BR, Reach/H4 pretty much the DMR. H5 has excellent weapon balance over all still as most weapons are actually useful when used in the right time and place compared to other Halo games.
Halo 4 DMR? Go play Halo 4 on the MCC and come back. I used to use the DMR all the time in Halo 4 but I tend to miss shots with it. The BR is easier to use and takes one less shot. And you're right. Halo has always been that way.
LethalQ wrote:
Not really... Halo has always had a main utility weapon. HCE it's the pistol, H2/3 it was the BR, Reach/H4 pretty much the DMR. H5 has excellent weapon balance over all still as most weapons are actually useful when used in the right time and place compared to other Halo games.
Halo 4 DMR? Go play Halo 4 on the MCC and come back. I used to use the DMR all the time in Halo 4 but I tend to miss shots with it. The BR is easier to use and takes one less shot. And you're right. Halo has always been that way.
Actually for H4 I was going to say the needle rifle that has what I would always pwn people with. The BR in h4 was good as well but I would always go with the dmr.
tuhin94 wrote:
For some illogical reason, 343i decided to have those weapon tuning updates in late 2017 to basically force the Magnum to be the workhorse and be better than nearly every other precision weapon, save for the H2BR. Maybe to try and place another stamp that says, “This is our game now,” who knows. But yeah, no way to avoid using Magnums in every engagement. It’s the main reason I stopped playing the core modes like Slayer in H5 and began to find Firefight boring and annoying also.
I know this is more pedantic and nitpicking than anything else, but they didn't make the Magnum better, they made everything else worse.

Back then, they were trying to phase out the Magnum and have the starting weapon be the BR and the Gunfighter Magnum, so those two weapons were given tunings (nerfs) to compensate for their new role. Once people complained because they overdid it and people actually liked the Magnum, so they had to semi-undo those nerfs so they can be balanced anyway.

So the BR has this weird window of being great but you can't be too close or too far away with it, and the Gunfighter Magnum hasn't been the same ever since - and it's just a Warzone weapon again. Then some other weapons like the Carbine and DMR got their own tunings.

The Pistol never got anything, because the Gunfighter Magnum took it's place for a little while and got all the nerfs instead. So being one of the few weapons that didn't get an update, it just became the Ol' Reliable of the sandbox.
tuhin94 wrote:
For some illogical reason, 343i decided to have those weapon tuning updates in late 2017 to basically force the Magnum to be the workhorse and be better than nearly every other precision weapon, save for the H2BR. Maybe to try and place another stamp that says, “This is our game now,” who knows. But yeah, no way to avoid using Magnums in every engagement. It’s the main reason I stopped playing the core modes like Slayer in H5 and began to find Firefight boring and annoying also.
I know this is more pedantic and nitpicking than anything else, but they didn't make the Magnum better, they made everything else worse.

Back then, they were trying to phase out the Magnum and have the starting weapon be the BR and the Gunfighter Magnum, so those two weapons were given tunings (nerfs) to compensate for their new role. Once people complained because they overdid it and people actually liked the Magnum, so they had to semi-undo those nerfs so they can be balanced anyway.

So the BR has this weird window of being great but you can't be too close or too far away with it, and the Gunfighter Magnum hasn't been the same ever since - and it's just a Warzone weapon again. Then some other weapons like the Carbine and DMR got their own tunings.

The Pistol never got anything, because the Gunfighter Magnum took it's place for a little while and got all the nerfs instead. So being one of the few weapons that didn't get an update, it just became the Ol' Reliable of the sandbox.
True, this is a good point and I should have worded my post better. I hope the current sandbox’s balance doesn’t continue in Infinite.
I hope the irony isn't lost on the 343 balancing team that the best standard weapon in the game (other than the H2BR) got that distinction because it's the only one they didn't try to fix.
I hope BR will be the meta in Infinite...
I hope BR will be the meta in Infinite...
Snap. If only for that beautiful sound it makes, dumdumdum, dumdumdum, dumdumdum haha
I do love a pistol though :)
I absolutely hate the Magnum! I miss the weapon balancing in the Beta. It should be a 6 shot kill.

"Spartans never die, they're just missing in action or they get killed by some overpowered pistol."
What are you going to use, an AR?
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
Not really... Halo has always had a main utility weapon. HCE it's the pistol, H2/3 it was the BR, Reach/H4 pretty much the DMR. H5 has excellent weapon balance over all still as most weapons are actually useful when used in the right time and place compared to other Halo games.
Halo 4 DMR? Go play Halo 4 on the MCC and come back. I used to use the DMR all the time in Halo 4 but I tend to miss shots with it. The BR is easier to use and takes one less shot. And you're right. Halo has always been that way.
Actually for H4 I was going to say the needle rifle that has what I would always pwn people with. The BR in h4 was good as well but I would always go with the dmr.
The needle rifle is only in Halo Reach....
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
Not really... Halo has always had a main utility weapon. HCE it's the pistol, H2/3 it was the BR, Reach/H4 pretty much the DMR. H5 has excellent weapon balance over all still as most weapons are actually useful when used in the right time and place compared to other Halo games.
Halo 4 DMR? Go play Halo 4 on the MCC and come back. I used to use the DMR all the time in Halo 4 but I tend to miss shots with it. The BR is easier to use and takes one less shot. And you're right. Halo has always been that way.
Actually for H4 I was going to say the needle rifle that has what I would always pwn people with. The BR in h4 was good as well but I would always go with the dmr.
The needle rifle is only in Halo Reach....
Right.... Haha.. I don't remember or think to well sometimes from this medication I am on.
They nerf AR, BR and Carbine, it’s a joke to see Magnums everywhere. What’s the point to make the changes? H5 AR at launch is the best AR in multiplayer and we finally have an AR useful, then they killed it.
Magnum is a fun weapon and really skillful due to the small crosshair, however in H5 its accuracy and rate of fire just outclasses the rest of the sandbox that's placed on the map (besides power weapons, obviously), making picking them up pointless unless you're lucky or are using it in the right situation (given that you know the functionality of most weapons, which was recently changed).

To begin with, I've never understood that concept. Sure, a utility starting weapon is important, but it being even better than most of the actual equipment in the map (not to mention the disparity with the AR, which was pretty good and then saw its efectiveness extremely decreased, even with headshots) and the only one that gets used is detrimental, sad and makes the weapons balance speak for itself. I know older Halos were like that, but does that necessarily mean they were accurately balanced? I don't think so as a BR, CE Magnum or DMR could do the majority of the tasks and outperform the rest of guns quite easily (not in a skillfull way, a BR can just kill a SMG in H2C standing still and static... and the same applies to CE Pistol vs AR).

That said, as some people pointed out in this thread and older ones, H4 got some automatic weapons and Covenant/Forerunner buffs here and there, achieveing an overall more or less right balance, taking into account armor abilities, the possibilities of loadouts and the number of weapons and grenades (the Forerunner one being useless, though). Halo 5 carried over those right decisions and improved them by removing that concept of "take the BR/DMR/Magnum and kill everything quickly and easily", also buffing map pickups slightly so that there was a point to take them and to control the correct spots and gun spawn places. In addition, this didn't mean the starting weapons were bad; nothing is further away from reality, AR was the best version in close to mid encounters, and Magnum could compete with the BR (denying the old complains, as if you were quick and you strafed you could easily win the fight).

Finally, I'd like to state that the last H5 update tweaked the balance and RUINED it, at least in my opinion, as the whole sandbox got nerfs everywhere, except the Magnum to return to those old roots of "take the current utility weapon and outperform everything quite easily and without worrying about getting or fighting for anything". The most notable parts are the SMG, the new AR, the nerfed Carbine or the Gunfighter Magnum. Furthermore, eventually Ranked playlists and balance screwed up as Objective got overweighted Slayer and HCS only settings, paired with a huge imbalance in ranks/skill matching, no actual H5 identity (no spartan charge, no thrusters, no ground pound and so on) and Magnum only starts (just got rid of the AR, it was useless anyways nowadays). Personally, I think it's time to get rid of those changes and go back to a beautifully and carefully balanced sandbox. Or at least in Halo Infinite. Come on, the game is begging for some support since MCC got the lead... Personal skill must be the main objective and not the current OP weapon.

Link --> "Old thoughts and possible fixes"