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[Locked] Why the Halo 5 Radar is Virtually Useless

OP Farsight 360

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iRaiseHell wrote:
This is my biggest gripe about MP. Well besides map count. The Radar is completely useless in this game. Faster game play yet shorter display distance? Seriously what is the logic in that?

So many things right with this game.... Yet so many things equally wrong.

Fix this or at least creat a playlist with a actual useful radar.
i know BTB does
alebottix wrote:
Guys,
The radar has been modified for competitive gameplay. I know, as a player who started con HCE, I hate it too, but I have to live with it. I can still enlarge it on custom and use advance sensors in warzone. Nobody is going to change its reach in Arena due to the basis of competitive gameplay for H5 already being build around it. Get over it.
No. From the looks of this thread, a great deal of people don't like the changes to the motion tracker in Halo 5. We're going to make it known until 343i does something about it.
At the very least, they should make all Social playlists have the 25m to 30m motion tracker range, and give us more Social playlists like Social FFA, Social Team Slayer, Social Objective; not everyone wants to play competitively. I stuck mostly to the Social playlists in Halo 3; there were more maps, more game modes, more players, and it was just overall more fun than Ranked.
That. I really don't get why they are not making a social slayer playlist with 25m radar. Many people have been asking.
They really should do that for all social playlists if they don't want to increase it in the ranked playlists. There's only three social playlists as of now and five ranked playlists, they need to equal it out by adding a social slayer playlist and a team objectives playlist both with a 25m radar. I'm tired of just wanting to have fun and play some slayer but everyone is really competitive cause there's only ranked slayer. Social playlists also shouldn't count towards your overall stats cause people don't like to lose their precious k/d. Making these changes will make the game better for all the lay back casual players who want to have fun and not be forced to play competitively.
JAKES7777 wrote:
radar could be improved a little
Or it could be improved a lot. We really need the 30m range back...
JAKES7777 wrote:
radar could be improved a little
Or it could be improved a lot. We really need the 30m range back...
Sorry, UNSC budget cutbacks won't allow for radar range upgrades.
Just want to remind everyone that energy swords have almost equal range to motion trackers. Super fun in infection.
I'll use hyperbole and sarcasm to make my point clearer: I think 18m is way too long. Let's drop it down to 5m. Or better yet 1m. That'll guarantee that no one uses the radar as a radar is meant to be used, which is seeing a symbolic representation of what you (the player) cannot see firsthand with your own two eyes, to anticipate something happening in the battlefield before it happens.

The 18m range is often times showing an enemy who is right in the same room. It gives you a split second at best of seeing something happen before it happens. By the time your eye goes down from the lower left, back up to the crosshair again--it can be too late with 18m. I play with a pretty high sensitivity and my reflexes are fine. The point is the HUD is displaying redundant information at 18m, whereas 25-30m would give everyone a tactical advantage, regardless of skill. Right now the radar may as well be turned off.

And no, campers aren't the only ones who want a larger range. I move around the map constantly. 18m may increase movement, but it won't be informed movement. It's haphazard movement, likely in the wrong direction, reducing Halo to "who shoots first."
Don't hate on the radar mate, its done me more good than I can count
Halo 1,2,3,4 and reach would like to have a word with you lol
18 is really to small because Halo 5 is so fast
This article is so spot on. Why the hell does 343 force Halo into a direction they "know" players wouldn't be happy? They said themselves that it was "their" thinking of why they should dumb down the radar when you can tell they clearly knew no one would agree. Not even the noob players appreciate 343's decision, because how are new players supposed to learn and get good at Halo?
As others have said I also agree with the speed of halo 5 the radar definitely needs to be bumped up. Theres one thing 343i has wrong when making a game competitive.. They are introducing things to make it that way.. Which is all wrong.. Its not the game that makes it competitive its the players and skills one has that makes it competitive.. I think by them dropping the range of the radar is just foolish on 343i part..thinking this will make the game more competitive.. Lets be honest here 343 listens to the Pros on advice..and that is there biggest downfall/mistake...
Radar, I think should be changed to the way it use to be, but I barely even look at my radar, unless I'm being flanked or attacked from my sides. In Halo 5, radar is a little useless.
As any proficient Halo player knows, the radar is essential to exercising skill on the field of combat. It allows players to anticipate their opponent's moves in order to adjust their own. There have been many posts about this, but I felt the need to elaborate in a single post why the current reduction from 30m to 18m is a terrible idea for all players, of any skill set. I also believe more posts overall will help get the point across, and hopefully promote positive change.

Currently, the 18m range is virtually useless for the type of fast paced gameplay Halo 5 delivers. By the time you see a red dot on the radar, more often than not your enemy is already gunning at you or in visual range. In other words you might as well not be looking at the radar at all. If you're like me and used the radar a ton in Halo 1-4, it seems that 9 times out of 10, using the Halo 5 radar the same way you used Halo 1-4's radar will likely get you killed.

The dots / blips are way too small, and the colors (light green and light red) are so pale that they end up washing together. You really have to look and pay close attention to find a tiny pale red dot, which the speed of Halo 5's gameplay doesn't allow.

I want to take time to quickly address 343's reasoning behind the change, because it bothers me even more that this was their thinking. I believe none of the following points made by 343 are valid for keeping it at 18m:

Quote:
"We felt that this negatively affected the game for a few reasons, but the big one was that players of all skill levels relied too heavily on the big radar range. Lesser skilled players never looked at it, the higher skilled players always looked at it, and the top level players did both as they quickly learned the maps and understood where everyone was by a quick glance at the radar. So we’ve decided to drastically reduce the range of the radar down to 18 meters. The radar has now become less of a motion tracker that sees through multiple rooms and is now more of a combat tracker that promotes engagement.If someone shows up on your radar, they are REALLY close and a fight is about to go down. This is something that we feel is in line with our equal starts philosophy where everyone at all skill levels and competition will be playing the same game."
For starters, there's a contradiction within the first two sentences. You say "players of all skill levels relied too heavily on it", then in the following sentence you say "lesser skilled players never looked at it." Which is it? And what does "whether or not they looked at it" have anything to do with the range itself? Maybe lesser skilled players hate all radars, regardless of the range. Maybe lesser skilled players hate concentric circles of all kinds. Either way, this is not a great starting point to change things.

Second problem--as I'm sure any military tactician would tell you, radars aren't built to "promote engagement." They're built as a tool to help the user make a calculated decision on whether or not they want to retreat or engage, based on the speed and direction of other objects. If the radar can't anticipate the speed and direction of an enemy before they're in visual range, give the player a few seconds to think about it, then engagement could be (and often is) happening regardless.

Right now the radar isn't a tool at all, it's just a distraction.

My third and final problem. The final sentence makes absolutely no sense. Players are playing the same game, regardless of how long the radar is. If you gave one player an 18m radar and another a 30m, arbitrarily, players would obviously be playing a "different game". But they aren't. The only thing you've made equal is now NO ONE looks at the radar, either because 1) they don't know to, or 2) because they know doing so is both useless and dangerous.

To conclude, I've played Halo competitively from the CE days it was only available over LAN. The radar has always been one of the essential tools one uses to defeat their opponents--and it should be. Whether or not your average player is smart enough to use it is just as much indicative of the skill set as whether or not they choose to boost in-game to avoid weapon's fire. The more advanced players shouldn't have to suffer to give the less advanced a better chance at winning.

This is another way of saying that how players use the tools you provide them shouldn't really be up to you, 343, because the liberty at which tools you use at which time in Halo is part of what has made Halo diverse and fun, regardless of skill. Everyone has an equal shot at that, and that's what establishes skill! Instead, the game has gone from tactful to tactless. From intelligent, to dumbed down. From Halo, to Call of Duty-esque. And that's not the philosophy behind Halo.

Halo started as "Combat Evolved." This is combat regressed.
If I weren't at work, I would cry at how beautiful this post is. You have hit the nail on the head, and it's not just the radar issue. Its a laundry list of issues that 343i has subsequently hit the "-Yoink- it" button on and just blatantly ignored the fans.

Is it pride? Is it knowing that the first two titles to be released by the Studio is only comparable to today's shooters and would be laughed out the room if Halo 1 and 2 were still relevant?

I think a major reason why the studios insist on "level" playing fields and almost silence in response to the criticism is essentially the generation, or age gap among players now.

The amount of under 18 year old players is growing in the community and with that, the demand for high quality is replaced with "now, now, now." Well now you have it, a piece of -Yoink- that will be here for another 2 years. If they killed off Master Chief it would make leaving this series so much more easier, the only incentive to actual play Halo anymore is to "finish the fight" or "finish 343i creative-less team's image of what that fight should be."

I forget I'm just a consumer, I have no value.
As others have said I also agree with the speed of halo 5 the radar definitely needs to be bumped up. Theres one thing 343i has wrong when making a game competitive.. They are introducing things to make it that way.. Which is all wrong.. Its not the game that makes it competitive its the players and skills one has that makes it competitive.. I think by them dropping the range of the radar is just foolish on 343i part..thinking this will make the game more competitive.. Lets be honest here 343 listens to the Pros on advice..and that is there biggest downfall/mistake...
I like what you said here. It's not the tools that are added to the game that make it competitive, it should be the players ability using those tools for an advantage that makes it competitive. Everything 343i has introduced in this game either felt forced or just horribly executed with maybe less than 5% of the community in mind.

Was the Halo Championship Series and a few TV spots really worth an entire franchise's legacy? Microsoft, not showing their smarts by letting this "in-house" studio butcher their main franchise.
I'm pretty sure 343 doesn't even look here anymore, but I agree with OP. If they insist on having sprint in the game, then they have to have an adequate motion tracker range. 18m paired with sprint and worse, Spartan charge, makes it nigh on worthless. By the time you see a combatant on tracker, you've already been charged/shot/killed.
Reader is fine with this extra speed of the game pace if you try to run and recover people will pin point your exact location. Plus the maps are small now I'm happy with the radar it's fine
JAKES7777 wrote:
radar could be improved a little
Or it could be improved a lot. We really need the 30m range back...
Yes we do, currently the game makes the game feel even more unbalanced without it. It's got to a point where I don't trust using it since 3/4 of the time it gives out false information and practically useless in small team based games.
As others have said I also agree with the speed of halo 5 the radar definitely needs to be bumped up. Theres one thing 343i has wrong when making a game competitive.. They are introducing things to make it that way.. Which is all wrong.. Its not the game that makes it competitive its the players and skills one has that makes it competitive.. I think by them dropping the range of the radar is just foolish on 343i part..thinking this will make the game more competitive.. Lets be honest here 343 listens to the Pros on advice..and that is there biggest downfall/mistake...
I like what you said here. It's not the tools that are added to the game that make it competitive, it should be the players ability using those tools for an advantage that makes it competitive. Everything 343i has introduced in this game either felt forced or just horribly executed with maybe less than 5% of the community in mind.

Was the Halo Championship Series and a few TV spots really worth an entire franchise's legacy? Microsoft, not showing their smarts by letting this "in-house" studio butcher their main franchise.
Exactly my friend! Its how one uses the tools available to them that should make the game competitive. By them adding or forcing things into the game to achieve this is the wrong way to go about it.. If you watch the monthly live streams on upcoming updates pay attention to how many times they say we are taking advice by our "Pro Teams" input. Every time I hear that I cringe!! They need to start taking more advice by your average players as well. It doesn't take long playing the game to see who they have been listening too.. The game has Pro written all over it.. :-/
As any proficient Halo player knows, the radar is essential to exercising skill on the field of combat. It allows players to anticipate their opponent's moves in order to adjust their own. There have been many posts about this, but I felt the need to elaborate in a single post why the current reduction from 30m to 18m is a terrible idea for all players, of any skill set. I also believe more posts overall will help get the point across, and hopefully promote positive change.

Currently, the 18m range is virtually useless for the type of fast paced gameplay Halo 5 delivers. By the time you see a red dot on the radar, more often than not your enemy is already gunning at you or in visual range. In other words you might as well not be looking at the radar at all. If you're like me and used the radar a ton in Halo 1-4, it seems that 9 times out of 10, using the Halo 5 radar the same way you used Halo 1-4's radar will likely get you killed.

The dots / blips are way too small, and the colors (light green and light red) are so pale that they end up washing together. You really have to look and pay close attention to find a tiny pale red dot, which the speed of Halo 5's gameplay doesn't allow.

I want to take time to quickly address 343's reasoning behind the change, because it bothers me even more that this was their thinking. I believe none of the following points made by 343 are valid for keeping it at 18m:

Quote:
"We felt that this negatively affected the game for a few reasons, but the big one was that players of all skill levels relied too heavily on the big radar range. Lesser skilled players never looked at it, the higher skilled players always looked at it, and the top level players did both as they quickly learned the maps and understood where everyone was by a quick glance at the radar. So we’ve decided to drastically reduce the range of the radar down to 18 meters. The radar has now become less of a motion tracker that sees through multiple rooms and is now more of a combat tracker that promotes engagement.If someone shows up on your radar, they are REALLY close and a fight is about to go down. This is something that we feel is in line with our equal starts philosophy where everyone at all skill levels and competition will be playing the same game."
For starters, there's a contradiction within the first two sentences. You say "players of all skill levels relied too heavily on it", then in the following sentence you say "lesser skilled players never looked at it." Which is it? And what does "whether or not they looked at it" have anything to do with the range itself? Maybe lesser skilled players hate all radars, regardless of the range. Maybe lesser skilled players hate concentric circles of all kinds. Either way, this is not a great starting point to change things.

Second problem--as I'm sure any military tactician would tell you, radars aren't built to "promote engagement." They're built as a tool to help the user make a calculated decision on whether or not they want to retreat or engage, based on the speed and direction of other objects. If the radar can't anticipate the speed and direction of an enemy before they're in visual range, give the player a few seconds to think about it, then engagement could be (and often is) happening regardless.

Right now the radar isn't a tool at all, it's just a distraction.

My third and final problem. The final sentence makes absolutely no sense. Players are playing the same game, regardless of how long the radar is. If you gave one player an 18m radar and another a 30m, arbitrarily, players would obviously be playing a "different game". But they aren't. The only thing you've made equal is now NO ONE looks at the radar, either because 1) they don't know to, or 2) because they know doing so is both useless and dangerous.

To conclude, I've played Halo competitively from the CE days it was only available over LAN. The radar has always been one of the essential tools one uses to defeat their opponents--and it should be. Whether or not your average player is smart enough to use it is just as much indicative of the skill set as whether or not they choose to boost in-game to avoid weapon's fire. The more advanced players shouldn't have to suffer to give the less advanced a better chance at winning.

This is another way of saying that how players use the tools you provide them shouldn't really be up to you, 343, because the liberty at which tools you use at which time in Halo is part of what has made Halo diverse and fun, regardless of skill. Everyone has an equal shot at that, and that's what establishes skill! Instead, the game has gone from tactful to tactless. From intelligent, to dumbed down. From Halo, to Call of Duty-esque. And that's not the philosophy behind Halo.

Halo started as "Combat Evolved." This is combat regressed.
A million times this.
Am I the only one that thinks it pretty decant. I can see some one sneaking up on me even in the middle of a fight.

Only thing I'd say is if any one is generating a lot of noise they should at least show up on the rim of the radar. I'm always anoyed that I can hear an enemy vehicle but I have no sence of its direction.
The radar is good but i think they should buff it up for warzone though.
i think the radar is ok and it works fine.
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