Forums / Games / Halo 5: Guardians

[Locked] WZ Update - August 24th

OP ske7ch

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BadDogg55 wrote:
Exactly... feedback for the new system not arguing back and forth endlessly.. They can message each other and fight back and forth.
Whether or not their argument constitutes legitimate feedback for the Warzone changes is a decision for the moderators. And I have no intention of getting into a meta-argument about arguments, so that's all I have to say 😬
BadDogg55 wrote:
Exactly... feedback for the new system not arguing back and forth endlessly.. They can message each other and fight back and forth.
Whether or not their argument constitutes legitimate feedback for the Warzone changes is a decision for the moderators. And I have no intention of getting into a meta-argument about arguments, so that's all I have to say 😬
Good for you... That's exactly my feelings. I would like to hear feedback from players like you instead of endless innuendo.. Thanks.
Please make it so that when I kill a boss, the whole team will gain some energy from it. It feels pointless going for them if I'm not helping my team much. I don't really want to have to wait for my teammates to get a shot on a boss either because I could die and not get credit or the enemy can just steal it.

I also think that making the home base clearance give all players level 2 again would be great.

Other than that though, I am enjoying the new update so far.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel very strongly that you can contribute substantially to helping your team secure bosses without actually getting shots on the boss right before it's killed. Whether by counter-slaying, distracting, etc. I won't clutter the thread further, I've made my case and provided justification.
Eevium wrote:
I also think that making the home base clearance give all players level 2 again would be great.
After playing a lot more, this really is the most fun-ruining change. It obliterates so many fun opening strategies and forces everyone to do the same boring thing every game. Carbines top garage on Arc - nope. Double warthogs for Stormbreak and Noctus, Speed boosts for Apex - all impossible now. The boss credit system should be changed as well, but please please please bring back REQ 2 at the start!
Eevium wrote:
I also think that making the home base clearance give all players level 2 again would be great.
After playing a lot more, this really is the most fun-ruining change. It obliterates so many fun opening strategies and forces everyone to do the same boring thing every game. Carbines top garage on Arc - nope! Double warthogs for Stormbreak and Noctus, Speed boosts for Apex - all impossible now. The boss credit system should be changed, but please please please bring back REQ 2 at the start!
req 2 at the start needs to come back and so doe the boss credit. But req 2 is most important, no req 2 at the start makes it so boring
I'm gonna answer these in random order, lel.
RzR J3ST3R wrote:
1.) You've completely missed his point in him saying "SR12 noobs," there are players who are just brand new to this game who don't know the mechanics on how WZ is played competitively. It wasn't a personal attack toward them, and you're just reading too far into it and taking it personally. I agree that SR rank is irrelevant, but he has a point in saying some players just do not know how to play WZ, so there IS a need for support players to slay enemy players to keep them from taking over the area and stealing bosses. I also find your sarcastic remarks rude and distasteful on a thread made to improve WZ for fanatic Halo fans, we really want this to work. If you find the whole game boring why are you commenting to begin with? Stop trolling.
2.) It's a naive and ignorant position to believe that NO one deserves credit for the boss kill if they didn't shoot the boss at least once. You've compared this to arena CTF in a previous argument, but it's not even sound. Arena is a completely different dynamic than WZ, if you do not rack up the points, you fall behind. Plain and simple. I cannot express to you how hard it is to catch up when everyone else is L5+ and you're stuck at L2 REQs. Every person fulfills a different role in WZ. If every single person left the base or a power position to teamshot a legendary boss, to simply not get left behind with req levels, the team is going to be predictable and lose those positions, armories, monument, spire, etc. The easiest way to get Jul M'Dama is to splatter it with a banshee, are you saying that the teammate that killed an enemy laser to prevent him from splasering your banshee teammate deserves NO credit for that legendary kill? Come on dude. It's a team game, that takes team effort for minute decisions (such as protecting your teammates), and tactics (like securing an area that gives your team tactical advantages). There are plenty of times where my team did not have the middle base in Sanctum and we managed to splatter M'Dama with a banshee or secure the top and kill him with needlers (granted we NEEDED someone to stay behind to prevent the enemy from lifting up or foiling our strategy).
3.) Again, you've missed the underlying point. Please tell me why I should send Teammate A who is better at slaying to kill a boss, when Teammate B and C who are boss killing machines can handle it insofar that Teammate A can protect them? I want Teammate A to kill enemy spartans, and keep his eye out for MORE incoming spartans because as soon as he turns his back they're coming. It is UNFAIR to prevent Teammate A from gaining REQ levels simply because he is tasked with keeping enemy spartans AWAY. Sometimes being tasked with keeping enemy spartans away involves locking them down in their armory, or being in a power position and preventing them from passing down a corridor where the boss isn't easily accessible, so realistically and practically speaking your argument doesn't hold especially if they can't do that 1% damage to the boss.
Here is a game where we got triple capped and farmed for 9 minutes (we couldn't get one base, from the beginning we got triple capped). They killed almost ALL the bosses and almost every member of their team had credit for at least one boss. How did they do this? Well, we were stuck at the core and they had every relevant power position. At the end of the game they were spawning hanibals, snipers, arclights, L6+ reqs; and at the end of the game we didn't even reach L4....... All we can do at this point is slay and try to break out of our core, slays were so undervalued to this system that we didn't even stand a chance, and if the other team wanted to they could have just kept slaying bosses no problem and continued to farm us (they ended up coring us at the end because so many of our team quit). We need slays to have more weight in WZ, we're not asking for the equivalent as a boss kill, but we need SOMETHING. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/warzone/matches/ef123f31-5e85-4e95-a00c-fea795ba6ea5/players/oddler?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Warzone
4.) Yes, there is a difference in skill in Halo 5, it's not as subjective as you think it is. If you don't believe me, please do yourself a favor and get a Team of 4 and enter into the HCS pro leagues and get yourself half a million dollars for getting 1st place. And just because you have laser sights, it doesn't guarantee a headshot, otherwise I'd just give my controller to my 2 year old niece who has NO eye hand coordination and have her farm Perfect Kills while I eat my spaghetti next to her. As for the latter part of your argument, what if you're about to get triple capped while your teammates are going for a legendary boss kill? Stopping that triple cap is probably more important than the 100 points early in the game. But while they reap the benefits of REQ boosts for boss killing, you don't get squat for preventing a game from going haywire because at the end of the day it's just a slay. And Pseudobutterfly effect? Most good WZ players would agree that power positions on maps are sometimes just as valuable as legendary bosses if not more valuable in some scenarios. It can shift the entire momentum of the game. Just stop. That argument isn't even thought out, there are so many other scenarios that can poke holes in that deflated and delicate dispute. This is why he brought up the 20 games logged in the past 2 months, most of which you quit out of..... You just really don't understand what you're talking about.
Here's something else to consider, if I get more REQ points for killing bosses and NO points for slays and defending bases what incentive do I have to watch back caps? I have don't have any motivation at that point to be a team player and lose out on boss kills. In fact, a system like this encourages a more chaotic team dynamic because no one wants to miss out on a boss kill that boosts REQ levels, no one wants to be the player at L4 REQs watching the back cap while everyone else is L8+ spawning awesome vehicles and weapons of mass destruction. There is ZERO fun in that and just encourages players to play more selfishly.
5.) The current version is NOT an improvement to the previous version. It just created different problems. Warzone is Halo's LARGEST multiplayer gametype in the history of the game... "Halo multiplayer has never been bigger." As such it should be treated as such, with the previous version we at least got to see everyone more opportunities to spend their biggest and baddest REQs and combinations. In the drip system, it's so slowly paced sometimes we don't even see L4+ Reqs..... Is this really the vision we want for the LARGEST multiplayer EVER in the history of Halo? My answer is no. Was the old system the best system without its flaws? Absolutely no, but we're going backwards with the drip system.
BadDogg55 wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
Would you two just quit it....!!!!! Good God enough is enough....
Leave them alone. They're just having a discussion. This is a feedback thread, after all
Exactly... feedback for the new system not arguing back and forth endlessly.. They can message each other and fight back and forth.
How is 343 ever going to get feedback to this extent to balance the game if not for players with very opinionated ideas? Their discussion highlights deferring points of views that 343 can look into. If you're so bothered by it, just ignore it.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
Would you two just quit it....!!!!! Good God enough is enough....
Leave them alone. They're just having a discussion. This is a feedback thread, after all
Exactly... feedback for the new system not arguing back and forth endlessly.. They can message each other and fight back and forth.
How is 343 ever going to get feedback to this extent to balance the game if not for players with very opinionated ideas? Their discussion highlights deferring points of views that 343 can look into. If you're so bothered by it, just ignore it.
Then...why are you reporting the posts? :|
Im just going to drop my overall experience and feedback.

First of, the game feels REALLY SLOW. Not getting lvl 2 at the start of a match might be a big deal for those who get their upgraded magnum, speed boost, ect. No matter how many kills you get, makes it really long to get to lvl 9 reqs, on one side its a good addition to prevent those who rush to lvl 7 and call banshees or other legendary vehicles at the early start of the game (8-12 min after starting).

Balancing the req energy for everyone is good, but its quite too slow. Since everyone's req energy now automatically lvls up, boss kills, regular kills or base cap kills should give a little more energy than what it gives now. It makes it really hard to reach lvl 9 after the score is already around 600-700 in some scenarios.

As im always been a warzone player, with these changes makes my experience very unpleasant, it feels boring, sometimes frustrating seeing that req energy rise very slowly. I would only suggest to give everyone back their lvl 2 reqs at the beginning of the game like it used to be. Slightly increased more the req energy for kills, boss, base cap since everyone's req energy automatically lvls up, that will no longer leave those stuck at a req level.

With these changes it makes games longer, for one side is a positive approach to stop the blowout scores like 1000-250 for example. Players will have the opportunity to stand out and make a comeback. Thas why i only suggest to slightly increase the req energy rewarded for kills, ect.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
BadDogg55 wrote:
Would you two just quit it....!!!!! Good God enough is enough....
Leave them alone. They're just having a discussion. This is a feedback thread, after all
Exactly... feedback for the new system not arguing back and forth endlessly.. They can message each other and fight back and forth.
How is 343 ever going to get feedback to this extent to balance the game if not for players with very opinionated ideas? Their discussion highlights deferring points of views that 343 can look into. If you're so bothered by it, just ignore it.
Then...why are you reporting the posts? :|
Correction: I'm reporting nonconstructive criticism. It seems to me that he's arguing for arguments sake, and is attempting to troll these posts. Do you not see his sarcastic remarks and snide comments? Did I not put the report under the correct category?
I'm not gonna argue about things that are very much "agree to disagree" moments, honestly. Butting heads is fine, but in the end gets us nowhere given we simply don't see each other's side. It's essentially wasting page space. However, I need to respond to some things, specifically, because they do relate to this REQ system in general.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
4.) Here is a game where we got triple capped and farmed for 9 minutes (we couldn't get one base, from the beginning we got triple capped). They killed almost ALL the bosses and almost every member of their team had credit for at least one boss. How did they do this? Well, we were stuck at the core and they had every relevant power position. At the end of the game they were spawning hanibals, snipers, arclights, L6+ reqs; and at the end of the game we didn't even reach L4....... All we can do at this point is slay and try to break out of our core, slays were so undervalued to this system that we didn't even stand a chance, and if the other team wanted to they could have just kept slaying bosses no problem and continued to farm us (they ended up coring us at the end because so many of our team quit). We need slays to have more weight in WZ, we're not asking for the equivalent as a boss kill, but we need SOMETHING. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/games/halo-5-guardians/xbox-one/mode/warzone/matches/ef123f31-5e85-4e95-a00c-fea795ba6ea5/players/oddler?gameHistoryMatchIndex=0&gameHistoryGameModeFilter=Warzone

5.) The current version is NOT an improvement to the previous version. It just created different problems. Warzone is Halo's LARGEST multiplayer gametype in the history of the game... "Halo multiplayer has never been bigger." As such it should be treated as such, with the previous version we at least got to see everyone more opportunities to spend their biggest and baddest REQs and combinations. In the drip system, it's so slowly paced sometimes we don't even see L4+ Reqs..... Is this really the vision we want for the LARGEST multiplayer EVER in the history of Halo? My answer is no. Was the old system the best system without its flaws? Absolutely no, but we're going backwards with the drip system.
Okay, so, you have a game where you get farmed and triple capped for 9 minutes. People are spawning in multiple vehicles, weapons, etc to keep you in your base to just farm the game out. You're saying that slays being undervalued is the issue, when the gametype again isn't centered around slaying, it never was. The real issue is how snowbally the REQ system is in its current state. Well, it's "current" state being that of late 2015 to now. It enables farming since you're able to call in vehicles as long as you just have a card. Recharge rates are pretty high in spite of this. Same goes for weapons. You can literally have just chains upon chains of weapons, vehicles, etc. And stack that with a squad of people who're sweaty. It becomes a snowball pretty quickly.

Now, with that said, why in the world are you wanting slays to have added weight so they add counter REQs to an already REQ filled mode for the chance of being able to counter a farming situation? Why not have a limited system where REQ use is balanced by a point system akin to buying REQ packs, per game. You get enough per game to buy a vehicle or two, maybe a few weapons, a powerup or two, and that's it. Once you run out, you're on your loadout weapons, only. A band aid fix to the issue of farming and snowballing games is giving you more REQs to try and counter a farming situation. However, allowing players to run out of REQs by properly balancing and limiting them stops the ability for teams to just farm the game out. It punishes reckless REQ use and in turn, rewards proper use of them, incentivizes more basic gunplay, over gameplay with just overpowered clip garnering weapons (lol) and vehicles, on top of stopping farming because people can't just mass spam REQs over and over. In this system, people will run out of points, and eventually be shoved back into basic gunplay alone. You could also put in caps on weapons and vehicles to avoid an out of the box weapon/vehicle spam fest. However, it allows people who get the itch of calling in the biggest baddest weapons and vehicles to do so at least once, without them just being able to stat on teams in an unbalanced fashion.

You don't need slays to have more weight, you need to have a proper rebalance of the REQ system because it's inherently flawed for allowing these things to happen in the first place. As long as the drip system/level system exists, farming will. It won't be fixed by giving slays, or ANYTHING else more weight. It won't even be countered. It'll at best, be potentially, slightly mitigated and just turned into more chaos because more REQs are being brought in. And adding more chaos in an already chaotic gamemode is like adding gasoline to a fire connected to a gas pump. It's not good.

Also, no disrespect, but don't use a multiplayer trailer tagline as a justification for more REQ use. It's not a good justification. "It's supposed to be bigger, the trailer said so, give us more REQ opportunities". Yeah, no, that isn't how it should work. Delicate tinkering with balance should be it. Not trying to come off as aggressive, but this is a really poor point to use.
Well first I'd like to say thanks for taking this seriously.

To address your first point, I was speaking to relativity between the most previous REQ system and the Drip REQ system. I'm not really sure if the recharging system is the issue, I've never really paid attention to it. WZ is advertised as the largest multiplayer experience in Halo and REQs are a huge part of it. Wouldn't we want the opportunities to actually use our REQs rather than a full on loadouts match? If it becomes a loadout match, whats the difference between BTB and WZ? There really isn't one. If we had the same REQ levels as they did there wouldn't have been as big of a blowout, and they wouldn't have manipulated the map to the extent as they had if we could counter their REQs. The only source available for increasing our REQ levels in our core was slays, and now that is gone, so with the Drip system were basically just stuck in our core while they're farming bosses to increase their REQs while we are increasing at a much slower pace because we don't have ANY resources to increase our REQ levels.

Also, our previous REQ system DID encourage players to use their REQs properly. If you called the wrong REQs at the wrong time you sincerely got punished for it. You either lost out on a game winning boss kill, lost your nornfang to a sneaky camo player, lost a power position because you called a banshee to counter 3 banshees instead of an endgame to kill them all. There was such a thing as using REQ levels properly in the previous system, in the Drip system, you can only call in particular REQs pertaining to higher or lower REQs depending on the scenarios which give some players distinct advantages and leaving others at severe disadvantages. I can't keep calling in L5-L7 REQs because my teammates are stuck at L3 for covering icecaves while I killed a 10 minute boss, and the entire other team is at L5-L7 because momentum from the first 3-4 bosses pushed them there (ie they get L3s while were stuck at L1-2 theyre going to be able to efficiently and effectively kill later bosses, that snowballs into them getting higher level REQs repeating boss kills and I happen to be in the right place in the right time and get a boost from that boss while my entire team is left behind). In the Drip system "reckless" use of REQs isn't even a concern because it's so slow paced for people missing out on boss kills (base captures aren't as relevant as there are only 3 bases...). It just overemphasizes boss kills, which is the core of the issue. AGAIN, just speaking from a position of relativity from our most previous system to the Drip system, we've went backwards. I don't think we're even in the position to give suggestions for a "perfect" REQ system until we address the new problems that arise from the new system. And WZ is all pretty much about the REQ system and getting the biggest and baddest guns.... otherwise its just a bigger BTB... no one wants the smaller gun.

This chaotic game mode as some measure of organization. There are plenty of Spartan companies who broke to down to a science on how to get the most efficient boss kills, power positions, and base caps and all of that really just rests on communication. The problem these days with ANY mass player game isn't necessarily the system itself but rather the player base the system attracts. Some players like playing as lone wolves and getting 360 no scopes or unfriggs, and as a result if any one player tries to communicate and organize pushes, that ONE player gets muted, ignored, or even betrayed. Then you have players willing to play as a team who will get together with a To6, communicate effectively, create efficient strats and just are all around good players. The latter players end up becoming the WZ "gods" and are causing the steamrolling. Should we really punish them for playing the system efficiently and playing as a good teammate? It just doesn't make much sense. I get that the Drip system is designed to make a more even playing field, but for those playing support roles in their units its more of a punishment because they don't have the same opportunities as the players getting those boss kills. Again, not saying slay points should be worth as much as boss kills, but they shouldn't be worth next to nothing either. If I just wanted to kill bosses over and over again I'd queue for firefight.... if I want to kill just spartans over and over again without AI, there's WZ Assault... WZ should be a hybrid of both, meaning AI kills and Spartan kills are BOTH important.

Again, how then should the biggest multiplayer experience be if not for REQs? I'm not really interested in a BIGGER BTB with a little REQs here and there. REQs make WZ, people LIKE REQs. Otherwise no one would bat an eye for WZ Turbo weekends.
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Esta perfecto ahora si sera mejor
so i sure most have seen the next list of weapons that will be receiving tuning adjustments and the gunfighter magnum is one of them so from what is said in the post the gunfight magnum has too much range and 343 aims to shorten it to better have it fill the roll of a close range weapon. now lets compare our magnum Treo.

firstly the standard magnum. 5 shots mid ranged pistol ... standard good utility weapon with flexible use between close the mid range.

secondly the tac mag. 5 shot mid to long range magnum with a silencer. that quite a good buff it extends the usability of the magnums range and allows for good use at the ranges that the normal magnum become ineffective without crippling its close range usability.

thirdly the gunfighter magnum 6 shot magnum with slightly increased fire rate and drastically dropped range (which they intend to drop more) and magnetism with a kill speed that is only slightly faster. crippling any use out side its main range with more Nerf's then buffs from the standard magnum (more shots to kill, less range, less magnetism, and a less effective zoom compared to (ruffly 15 or 20% fire rate increase and slightly higher kill speed to the standard magnum) overall not a great buff if you want to call it one.

okay so in actual game play the gunfighter is highly limited and can only just out gun a standard magnum in a gunfight in its preferred range but they seek to lower its viability fever. the gun fighter already struggles enough to barely out preform its standard variant in its only usable range of cqc.all in all i think the gunfight needs a buff. now this could be something small like increasing its magnetism to better and more consistently land shots. or increases the fire rate by 5 to 10%. 343 if you really our set on shorting its range unneededly then at least improve some other aspect of it so it doesn't lose all viability. its already has little reason if any to be picked up over the stranded magnum don't make it worse.
Just lost a solo Q game with me getting 6/7 bosses that had spawned by the end of the match and going 23-6 K/D, but without shared energy from the bosses my awful teammates could not keep up with the slays. This is the most game breaking part of the update in my opinion, especially if the whole point is to stop "blowout" games. If the req energy had been shared then the 7 sub Level 50 players on my team (I'm SR 150) MIGHT have been able to pull out useful reqs rather than being slaughtered.

Blowout games are caused by bad players, not good ones.
Finally it might make warzone games fair
It was jarring at first, but now I like the non-Req level 2 at home base capture. I was surprised and disappointed at suddenly having to abandon the default strategies of carbines on Arc garage or speed boost to Noctus monument, but I do see how the Universal Level 1 at the start of the game really levels the playing field between players and map-trick exploiters (of whom I was one, admittedly, with a few early-game Noctus noob combos to my name). I've played many fun Darkstar matches and it's not automatically Req Level 2 at the start anyway.

Now, the early game is really a full-on traditional assault between two big teams rather than the rock-scissors-paper with positioning and weapons that the mid-to-late game already is. I will miss you, Early-Game Carbine: we had some grand times, but I understand why you had to go.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
To address your first point, I was speaking to relativity between the most previous REQ system and the Drip REQ system. I'm not really sure if the recharging system is the issue, I've never really paid attention to it. WZ is advertised as the largest multiplayer experience in Halo and REQs are a huge part of it. Wouldn't we want the opportunities to actually use our REQs rather than a full on loadouts match? If it becomes a loadout match, whats the difference between BTB and WZ? There really isn't one. If we had the same REQ levels as they did there wouldn't have been as big of a blowout, and they wouldn't have manipulated the map to the extent as they had if we could counter their REQs.
It's entirely the issue. I've paid attention to it, how it affects the game, and it's a big reason as to why I stopped playing. When I destroy a guy's Phaeton and he's able to just come back at me with another, while his other teammates spam vehicles due to recharging rates being super high in comparison to the time spent in vehicles (generally) and how one destroys them, that's when you realize the issue is entirely the recharge and level system. I've been able to do it myself, too. And it's one of the most subtly infuriating things to abuse. All this system does is put people on different playing fields, rather than properly balancing out said playing fields and the REQs in general.

I'd want an opportunity to use my REQ, sure. But I'd rather have it not become a steamroll blowout since I can call in six Phaetons after my first dies. I'm not saying "just have loadouts", I'm saying mitigate and punish the improper use of REQs, balance stuff out more, allow everyone to have an equal footing in the door to use their REQs so they don't just get shafted off the bat, while putting more of an emphasis on normal gunplay. I don't get why people would argue against more normal gunplay, either. Not like it's the core of the game or anything.

However, you know what'd ALSO fix blowouts and map manipulation? Legitimately limiting and balancing REQs out. Again, countering REQs by adding more just adds more fuel to the fire. It doesn't actually address the issue that started the look for a fix in the first place.

Also, you're sorely mistaken if you think making it a loadout match makes it not at all different to BTB. If you removed REQs, you'd still have base capping, bosses and cores to defend. Making it solely loadouts even doesn't change that, and differentiates it from BTB by a huge margin. Loadouts alone make it different since you can spawn with 67,000,000 (sarcasm) different weapons and variants.

Again, stop using advertisements as justifications.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
Also, our previous REQ system DID encourage players to use their REQs properly. If you called the wrong REQs at the wrong time you sincerely got punished for it. You either lost out on a game winning boss kill, lost your nornfang to a sneaky camo player, lost a power position because you called a banshee to counter 3 banshees instead of an endgame to kill them all. There was such a thing as using REQ levels properly in the previous system. In the Drip system "reckless" use of REQs isn't even a concern because it's so slow paced for people missing out on boss kills (base captures aren't as relevant as there are only 3 bases...). It just overemphasizes boss kills, which is the core of the issue. AGAIN, just speaking from a position of relativity from our most previous system to the Drip system, we've went backwards. I don't think we're even in the position to give suggestions for a "perfect" REQ system until we address the new problems that arise from the new system. And WZ is all pretty much about the REQ system and getting the biggest and baddest guns.... otherwise its just a bigger BTB... no one wants the smaller gun.
You didn't get punished, though. There was a game I had on Noctus at one point, where I was able to just keep calling in Nornfangs after either emptying them, or being killed with them. And another where I got killed in a Phaeton, and then proceeded to just call in another, fully healed Phaeton. I wasn't punished for losing them. So what if I lose my Nornfang to a camo player? I can just wait and call in another one in a short period because recharge rates are high. And that alone isn't hard when I can just camp in my base away from combat, essentially suffering nothing for losing it in the first place.

(No joke, but who ACTUALLY calls in one Banshees to take on three? That's just ridiculous, lol.)

And yes, Warzone's "all about the REQ system", because the current systems enforce on overeliance on them. Where they're commonly used, and not properly punished for.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
This chaotic game mode as some measure of organization. There are plenty of Spartan companies who broke to down to a science on how to get the most efficient boss kills, power positions, and base caps and all of that really just rests on communication. The problem these days with ANY mass player game isn't necessarily the system itself but rather the player base the system attracts. Some players like playing as lone wolves and getting 360 no scopes or unfriggs, and as a result if any one player tries to communicate and organize pushes, that ONE player gets muted, ignored, or even betrayed. Then you have players willing to play as a team who will get together with a To6, communicate effectively, create efficient strats and just are all around good players. The latter players end up becoming the WZ "gods" and are causing the steamrolling. Should we really punish them for playing the system efficiently and playing as a good teammate? It just doesn't make much sense. I get that the Drip system is designed to make a more even playing field, but for those playing support roles in their units its more of a punishment because they don't have the same opportunities as the players getting those boss kills. Again, not saying slay points should be worth as much as boss kills, but they shouldn't be worth next to nothing either. If I just wanted to kill bosses over and over again I'd queue for firefight.... if I want to kill just spartans over and over again without AI, there's WZ Assault... WZ should be a hybrid of both, meaning AI kills and Spartan kills are BOTH important.
Yeah, you don't understand what I'm talking about at all. I'm not talking about teamwork. I'm talking about chaotic map flow, pacing, how you die, how many REQs are on the map, etc. It has nothing to do with teams themselves. My initial point was, when you introduce more REQs into the system, it just fosters much more of an unpredictable and overall frustrating experience, on top of lopsiding the game for the people who can just start stacking REQs, resulting in farm outs. It has nothing to do with rewarding or punishing random players on the team. It has to do with REQ balancing and mitigation.
BeeeeeDoe wrote:
Again, how then should the biggest multiplayer experience be if not for REQs? I'm not really interested in a BIGGER BTB with a little REQs here and there. REQs make WZ, people LIKE REQs. Otherwise no one would bat an eye for WZ Turbo weekends.
You're still treating your point like a multiplayer trailer pitch. You know what BTB doesn't have? Bases. Bosses. A basic base defense objective. REQs. These change the game in radically different ways than BTB's static spawning weapons, loadouts, vehicles and powerups. Just because it's bigger doesn't mean it needs to be sheer, unfun chaos. It's still subject to balance factors.
Again got 9 boss kills, but the rest of the team DID NOT benefit from it whatsoever and because they are awful slayers they were out Req'd.
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