Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Cheating is now a promblem, Somthing must be done.

OP MrGiggleButts

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AshamanND wrote:
LethalQ,
I hear what you're saying, and I don't disbelieve what you've seen.

However, I am talking more generally in the overall KBM vs controller world.
Halo has a very limited sample size to compare top players that play on PC (because Halo isn't really on PC essentially) and top players that play on console.

Need to pick a game where it's available on both, and then compare.
Then realize that the differences noted would also be present in a Halo setting.

I'll link some Doom videos and Destiny videos later and lmk what you think.
Yeah one player who had a bad game because some one was making some good snipes with a mouse and keyboard isn't anything to worry about just yet IMO. At the end of the day whether you had a bad game or good game there is no way to really tell what input device other players are using. I will stick to my good ol controller. You can snipe just fine with them.
Just because an issue isn't rampant now, doesn't mean it shouldn't be at least looked at.

But I understand your sentiment.
Yes, people can be really good with a controller, and I know you are =).
But there is a 'glass ceiling' to the skill level with a controller, one that a KBM can break through.

That's all I really wanted to say about it.
LethalQ wrote:
Actually it's not cheating IMO. It's no more cheating than some one using an elite controller vs a regular controller. I don't think the mouse and keyboard gives any advantage in accuracy as they have to use the same program that you use. The difference in hard ware is negligible. It maybe more comfortable for some users who are more used to it than controllers and that can lead to better performance. I played better when I had my elite controller because of the paddles under the controller made things easier to do.

Edit: I was accused of cheating by some one a long time ago because I sniped them out of the hornet in a H2A match. I got a message saying I was a "hacker" and they reported me blah blah blah.... When all it was was a lucky shot by me.
button preference doesn't give an advantage. Analog sticks verses the precision of the mouse is the issue.

by what your saying anyone that used Bumper Jumper over Default setting should have been considered a cheater back in the day right? Obviously no
LethalQ wrote:
Actually it's not cheating IMO. It's no more cheating than some one using an elite controller vs a regular controller. I don't think the mouse and keyboard gives any advantage in accuracy as they have to use the same program that you use. The difference in hard ware is negligible. It maybe more comfortable for some users who are more used to it than controllers and that can lead to better performance. I played better when I had my elite controller because of the paddles under the controller made things easier to do.

Edit: I was accused of cheating by some one a long time ago because I sniped them out of the hornet in a H2A match. I got a message saying I was a "hacker" and they reported me blah blah blah.... When all it was was a lucky shot by me.
button preference doesn't give an advantage. Analog sticks verses the precision of the mouse is the issue.

by what your saying anyone that used Bumper Jumper over Default setting should have been considered a cheater back in the day right? Obviously no
No that isn't what I am saying at all actually.
As promised, some Doom links.

This guy is so good, that if you didn't know the game, or gaming in general, you probably wouldn't think it's a big deal, because he makes it look effortless.
Ultra Nightmare - NO UPGRADES
World's First Ultra Nightmare Completion

I contend that beating this game on console on Ultra Nightmare is [basically] impossible.

Some of the turns he makes, doing a 180 virtually instantly, simply cannot be done with a controller. The ability to turn that quickly, while also making infinitesimally small aim adjustments are only really possible with a mouse.
Using XIM with the mouse is a advantage on console because not only is using a mouse to aim is more precise but when you include the strong auto aim that console shooters have it makes aiming extremely easy.
LethalQ wrote:
Actually it's not cheating IMO. It's no more cheating than some one using an elite controller vs a regular controller. I don't think the mouse and keyboard gives any advantage in accuracy as they have to use the same program that you use. The difference in hard ware is negligible. It maybe more comfortable for some users who are more used to it than controllers and that can lead to better performance. I played better when I had my elite controller because of the paddles under the controller made things easier to do.

Edit: I was accused of cheating by some one a long time ago because I sniped them out of the hornet in a H2A match. I got a message saying I was a "hacker" and they reported me blah blah blah.... When all it was was a lucky shot by me.
Hello LethalQ. I believe you and I played against each other in FFA last night. I was the purple dino in aesthetic armor who kept getting his kills stolen, and I believe you were the grey spartan? Anyway, I don't really think mouse and keyboard is "cheating" either, but I do believe that it's just an unfair advantage given the capabilities a mouse has over an analog stick. Like OP I have seen more and more people pulling off ridiculous shots with the sniper and just having overall amazing aim with the BR. Not that they can't do these with controllers, it's just a bit fishy that even when I was a lvl 43 in OG Halo 3, I still never saw people pulling off shots this good. Example being the people who no scope with a perfect shot to the head from Medium/long distance while being shot at. Yeah, sure there are people who can do this with controllers too, but I feel like it happened way less often when mouse and keyboard wasn't a thing in Halo 3. Also, the paddles on an elite controller are not really comparable to the advantage a mouse gives over an analog stick.

Think about it from a logical perspective. What does a mouse have to do to get a headshot? All you gotta do is hold the cursor over the dude's head which is as simple as selecting a thumbnail or file on a comp. So what do you have to do to get a headshot with a controller? Well pretty much the same thing, but the steadiness is far less reliable than a mouse, especially at high sensitivities. The "elite" mouses are also far more useful than the elite controllers also. The Razer mouses have buttons that you can push that make the reticule accelerate faster or slower as you please, which just adds to the unfairness of it all.

I've played against people in Gears of War 4 who were using mouse and keyboard and I didn't see much of an advantage for them at all, mainly because a game like GOW doesn't benefit from a mouse and keyboard nearly as much as Halo, especially Halo 3. The sniper has pretty much zero auto aim, so using a mouse is going to give you a huge advantage over others, and the main weapon being the BR and also being the most inconsistent and unreliable BR of all time, having a mouse that guarantees steady aim is going to let you out-BR many other people.

Halo 3 was originally a game where the only way to play it was with a controller, so why accept the change now?
Hot Chili Fries
Great post, but just one thing.
MKB is supported on XB1 by MS - but it must be endorsed by the devs of each game to function (without an after market adapter).
343i does not endorse/support this feature.
Until they do officially, I consider it cheating to use those adapters.
LethalQ wrote:
Actually it's not cheating IMO. It's no more cheating than some one using an elite controller vs a regular controller. I don't think the mouse and keyboard gives any advantage in accuracy as they have to use the same program that you use. The difference in hard ware is negligible. It maybe more comfortable for some users who are more used to it than controllers and that can lead to better performance. I played better when I had my elite controller because of the paddles under the controller made things easier to do.

Edit: I was accused of cheating by some one a long time ago because I sniped them out of the hornet in a H2A match. I got a message saying I was a "hacker" and they reported me blah blah blah.... When all it was was a lucky shot by me.
You are very wrong. Mouse and keyboard give a huge advantage as it is much more responsive and accurate. This is common knowledge among fps junkies across the internet. Try and use a controller against people in any game on the computer and you will be dominated, including h2 via project cartographer.
Yes, it is far more accurate and has a faster response, but with it comes a drawback you have to be prepared for. A Mouse can not compensate for the aim assist. So the hitbox can be marginally different depending on the game. So if they're able to use a mouse and keyboard and they're good with it, that means they're pretty skilled players. We rely on aim assist, a little system coding that guides our shots a little bit better due to the clunky and sluggish nature of controller aiming. They are NOT technically cheating, they are not using a third party software to guarantee themselves a win; they're using a keyboard and mouse setup to give themselves a challenge but also put themselves in a better position. It's essentially like being a Silver tier going against Diamond tier or higher. It sucks, but it's still within the rules.
Quote:
They are NOT technically cheating, they are not using a third party software to guarantee themselves a win; they're using a keyboard and mouse setup to give themselves a challenge but also put themselves in a better position. It's essentially like being a Silver tier going against Diamond tier or higher. It sucks, but it's still within the rules.
They're using a third party hardware system to allow a mouse and keyboard to talk to MCC.
343i does not support KBM at the moment.

I'm sorry, AgentMaryland93, but I consider that cheating.
I have been reported for cheating 20+ times in the past 6 months while using a controller. It makes my day to get messages from people who think I am cheating.
AshamanND wrote:
Quote:
They are NOT technically cheating, they are not using a third party software to guarantee themselves a win; they're using a keyboard and mouse setup to give themselves a challenge but also put themselves in a better position. It's essentially like being a Silver tier going against Diamond tier or higher. It sucks, but it's still within the rules.
They're using a third party hardware system to allow a mouse and keyboard to talk to MCC.
343i does not support KBM at the moment.

I'm sorry, AgentMaryland93, but I consider that cheating.
Microsoft DOES however, and Microsoft is the one who supports 343i with a budget to make their games. Also, that's technically not the same thing? A third party software is an unintentional program that alters coding. You're thinking a LITERAL 3rd party software.
I think we're getting into semantics here, but I still think that until 343 supports KBM in their games officially, it should be considered 'cheating'.

That's about it.
AshamanND wrote:
I think we're getting into semantics here, but I still think that until 343 supports KBM in their games officially, it should be considered 'cheating'.

That's about it.
Well, you're free to believe as you wish; I can't force you to think otherwise. Just keep in mind that there are always exceptions and possibilities out there that go against what you believe. Have a great day!
AshamanND wrote:
I think we're getting into semantics here, but I still think that until 343 supports KBM in their games officially, it should be considered 'cheating'.

That's about it.
Well, you're free to believe as you wish; I can't force you to think otherwise. Just keep in mind that there are always exceptions and possibilities out there that go against what you believe. Have a great day!
Ditto =)
I had no idea there was K+M support. That's a huge advantage, but certainly not cheating.

K+M makes aiming far easier, but it also will make you faster. I'm not sure if it's true for all the Halo's but you move up to 7% faster in CE if you are moving perfectly straight and that's difficult to do with a controller.
Sorry, thought I could let this go, but I can't.

let' say you enter a car race for Saturns.
Someone decides to put a Corvette engine into their Saturn.
Is that not cheating?

Different hardware , not officially supported by Saturn, that gives a clear advantage over their competitors, but is owned by the same parent.

Just because the engine fits, and is made by the same company...?

until 343 officially opens KBM support, it is cheating. Once they endorse it, not cheating.
If you’re playing MCC with a M&K you’re cheating, period.
If you’re playing MCC with a M&K you’re cheating, period.
Thank you.
As far as I'm aware, if a developer doesn't support it, whether or not the ones who created the console do, does consider it cheating. You're pretty much circumnavigating what rules have been put in place by the developer. If a racing game supports both a controller and wheel, then it's not cheating (obviously) to use a racing wheel. But say, for some reason, they do prohibit its usage but you find a way around that, then yes, that is considered cheating as far as I'm aware.
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