Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Custom Game Browser officially de-prioritized

OP TROPSTOP

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MCC Development Update - July 2019
regarding the long awaited “Custom Game Browser” for MCC. Producer Sean Swidersky acknowledged that work had temporarily stalled on this feature but it’s still on the “to do” list. While this was once a much higher priority, the reality is that with the release of the Match Composer, the immediate need for this feature dropped in priority. This, along with ramping up work on Halo: Reach for PC and all that entails, led to the custom game browser feature slipping a bit further down the list

Just voicing my utter disappointment and hoping others will chime in, so that 343 might understand how bad they are dropping the ball here.

First, the Match Composer is severely lacking in its own right. It might work better if we could "compose the composer" so that we could match across multiple groups of settings. It's frustrating to have to jump to an alternate selection because matches are not being found. It fragments players who would otherwise be a match and waters down variety.

Second, the Match Compose solves an entirely different problem. It's aimed for getting into a match as quickly as possible. But what if you aren't looking for a mainstream game type? Good luck rounding up the troops on reddit/twitter/facebook/discord/etc to coordinate a time for your niche. I signed up as a brand new Live account when I bought MCC. Do you know how frustrating it was to learn I couldn't even join a custom match without building out a friends list? So I went and added everyone I could find. It sucks, it still sucks, and now years later I have a meaningless list of people, most who gave up and don't even play MCC anymore.

Greg Hermann, I don't know why you're trying to get so cute with this feature. We just need a server list with Region | Ping | Description | Player Count | Last Game Played. PC players are even more accustomed to this, so good luck. I guess I'll check back in a year to see if I can finally play some game types with like-minded people.
I wanted the browser to play customs easily because that is why i would play mcc. I dont wanna play older games just for the same slayer modes over and over again since i already did that years ago.
Officially Depressed

Read this a few hours after it was posted and just sat their and went "**insert related term that begins with F here**"...

When it was originally announced, I was pumped. Even then though, I knew (due to track record) that it wasn't coming out any time soon. Still was hopeful for it, and at least thought it would be close to finished at this point. Given quite a few things have been announced since the Custom Game Browser's announcement, it's still a major disappointment... It goes back to announcing things too early, getting people's hopes up, and not delivering. It temporarily gets people excited, then as time goes on it becomes obvious that it's not actually going to come to fruition any time soon, and then it's officially said that it's at a halt and it just confirms what everyone had already expected (at least people that read updates and actually follow this game...)

Side note: I help run a club called "Halo 3 customs" on Xbox that just recently passed 10,000 followers (about to be over 10,000 members) and as the name suggests, we play Halo 3 customs. The owner of the club, the other admin and myself have remade tons of originals from Halo 3 on MCC since it's release and have poured tons of time and effort into them to make them as precise as they can be to their original counterparts (with improvements here and there as we know too much about the intricacies of Halo 3's Forge so not taking advantage wouldn't make sense), as well as making totally new maps exclusive to MCC. With map porting coming, a lot of this work will render useless (although not, but in terms of the future - yeah, pretty pointless) but it's been pretty fun getting back into the swing of Halo 3 forge over the years (I forged initially in 2007 too, so it was almost second nature coming back once the muscle memory came back) and a lot of cool maps have came out of it as a result!

Shameless plug, but we've been grinding out custom games during the weekend since before Clubs existed on Xbox, and we use the Club system as a community to host customs. If you're interested in joining (anyone reading who loved Halo 3 customs or is looking to get into them), message me on Xbox Live and I'll shoot you a club invite. :)

Gamertag: Faulk Smash
It's dissapointing but with how much they are adding with the Reach update I'm not surprised it's put on the back burner for now. I would much rather them have this update launch properly and then they can focus afterwards on getting the browser and file share system to work properly as well.
Yep, I'm done.
What did you all expect?

They have limited resources.

Would you rather they did the custom game browser first, taking however long it takes for that? And then we all need to wait even longer for Reach in MCC and MCC on PC?
Sounds silly.

I'd rather they add Reach, get it all on PC, and then they add the customs browser. That way, all the games are live in MCC and the implementation might actually be easier than adding in a whole new game after the browser.

Yeah, I wish it came out like 6 months ago, but it didn't.
Given that it wasn't ready then, I'm glad they're focused on Reach, PC, Progression system first.

They said it is still a feature they want to add, but they need to get Reach, PC and Progression finished first. That makes perfect sense to me.
AshamanND wrote:
What did you all expect?

They have limited resources.

Would you rather they did the custom game browser first, taking however long it takes for that? And then we all need to wait even longer for Reach in MCC and MCC on PC?
Sounds silly.

I'd rather they add Reach, get it all on PC, and then they add the customs browser. That way, all the games are live in MCC and the implementation might actually be easier than adding in a whole new game after the browser.

Yeah, I wish it came out like 6 months ago, but it didn't.
Given that it wasn't ready then, I'm glad they're focused on Reach, PC, Progression system first.

They said it is still a feature they want to add, but they need to get Reach, PC and Progression finished first. That makes perfect sense to me.
I think this is exactly the problem - why are we as a community accepting news like this when this is feature that, quite honestly, should have shipped with the original Halo titles, let alone the remakes, and now the anniversary collection? Some of the OG Xbox live gamers haven't just been waiting for this feature for the past year and half, as original announced, we've been waiting since the launch of the original titles. The sheer thought of playing whatever game type you wanted with a bunch of friends and the general public on a smoother connection than the trickery that we were forced to implement through XBConnect, remains the reason we're so hopeful. And yet here we are nearly two decades later skimming the community updates, hoping to find some information on what is essentially a server list. (And please don't get me wrong XBConnect was the ishhhh back in the day.)

Further more - this is a feature that many other games since, including Halo 5, have adopted. In-fact PC gaming has had this "feature" for years. We're not asking for something dramatic - literally just a server list that shows all the games that people are hosting. I honestly think that's the problem: every developer including Bungie is afraid that the matchmaking population will dwindle by launching a Custom Game Browser, thereby increasing the time it takes users to find matches. It's a valid concern but it follows a logical fallacy and that is; if people are choosing Custom Games over Matchmaking then shouldn't that be what we're allowed to play?

It's just frustrating because this is now the fourth or fifth time since Halo launched in 2001 that rumors, or screenshots, and in this case, an official announcement was made indicating this feature would FINALLY make it into a game, and yet once again, here we are with egg on our face, disappointed. It's kind of sad really when you think about it, that XBConnect in 2002 is still the only way for us to play custom games online via a console.

I applaud the development team for the remarkable effort they've put into this game and for attempting to correct it so that it can truly be the game it was meant to be, but this is just yet another disappointment. It's honestly the reason many of my friends won't come back. Match composer was a step in the right direction but as alluded to in a previous post, it solves a different problem.

I'd say here's hoping but honestly after 19 years, I think it's about time I woke up. Here's hoping the next generation will one day get it and be able to experience what I experienced all those years ago in Halo CE, six to eight player CTF BG.
Bobert 360,

I'm not a programmer, but I doubt that implementing a custom game browser is as simple as you make it out to be.

We need to remember that 343 is a for-profit entity, and it takes time and money to develop features.

This is, like you mentioned, a decades old series, and the MCC itself is five years old now. For any company to commit resources, they would want to see a return on that investment.
343 isn't really making any more money from MCC (with the exception of PC users to come). So they need to prioritize their resources in a way that they think will have the best impact, NOW, for the most fans.
The best impact now, for the most fans is to get Reach in there and then put it all onto PC.
It's really a simple matter of manpower, salaries and limited revenues from this product.

Believe me, I want it. And I want it sooner than later. And I wish it was there on day one.
But MCC is a massive project - something that I don't think MS or 343 really understood what they were getting into when they announced and launched it. They weren't ready for the amount of issues that came up, and the work it needed.
They're fixing that problem now, and we will be getting the browser. Just not until they finish other items, that I feel actually make more sense to do first.

Cheers,
Ash
I really don't think it's that big of a deal. It's disappointing, but I'm pretty sure Reach and MCC on PC were much more highly requested features than the Custom Games browser. There's only so much that can be done at one time, and the thing you want most may not be what the majority of the community wants most.

For instance, I've been waiting a long time for all kinds of fixes to the audio/visual presentations of the games to align them with the legacy titles. I've been waiting years for some of these things, and have put a lot of effort into capturing and cropping screenshot comparisons of these issues. I even made an Imgur account specifically to upload and link them. These particular issues are very important to me. Just look at my posts on the last three campaign feedback threads:

MCC Campaign Feedback - July 2019
MCC Campaign Feedback - June 2019
MCC Campaign Feedback - May 2019

My point is that although these things are top of mind for me, I realize they are not the priority right now. So as frustrating as I find them, I'm willing to wait. I do have faith that 343 will get to them, but other things come first for most of the community. The Custom Games browser is likely much higher on the priority list than the things I care about most, and I'm sure we'll get it sooner than later. I'm just saying we have to consider that the 343 Publishing Team is very small compared to the rest of the studio that's working on Infinite, and that they have a lot on their plate right now, so some things have to take priority over others.
A bit disappointed but I kinda agree with them that the match composer does a good job ready in getting you games you like. But I kinda wish they weren't working on getting Halo MCC and reach to PC. I really don't think that juice is going to be worth the squeeze so to speak. MCC isn't all that popular on Xbox one despite all the massive improvements so I really don't see to many PC players wanting it.... Besides the few that are probably just going to hack the game. But any ways at least they are saying the custom game browser is still on the to do list.
I never would have guessed that this needs to be said, but here we are: if an entity devotes resources to accomplishing some task, then by necessity, they cannot accomplish other tasks as quickly. This community needs to grow up. People want Reach in MCC and MCC on PC and all sorts of new things, and they want a custom games browser, file share, and piles of QOL enhancements and bug fixes all at the same time. It doesn't work that way, and it never will.

The custom game browser will come. 343 is focusing on other things right now, and whether you accept how important those things are or not, you're going to need to just be patient.
TROPSTOP wrote:
MCC Development Update - July 2019regarding the long awaited “Custom Game Browser” for MCC. Producer Sean Swidersky acknowledged that work had temporarily stalled on this feature but it’s still on the “to do” list. While this was once a much higher priority, the reality is that with the release of the Match Composer, the immediate need for this feature dropped in priority. This, along with ramping up work on Halo: Reach for PC and all that entails, led to the custom game browser feature slipping a bit further down the list
It actually makes sense....sooner they get Reach up the sooner they can focus more on the custom browser without having to redo it all and with less delays for a full custom browser.

Plus there in the middle of getting ready for the file share transfers so that's obviously going to be a lot of content that will need to be ready before the custom browser is ready and that means there will be plenty of content for people to play when the feature launch's.
@AshamanND,

All valid and fair points and maybe this is me being naive, but ultimately that's what I find disappointing. I'm not saying that I expect 343 to not generate a profit on this nor is my expectation that the Halo franchise shouldn't be used to generate a new revenue stream for MS. In-fact that's why this series was brought to the Xbox in the first place, to capitalize on the nostalgia of the old generation and bring the Halo series to a new generation in order to get them hyped for the inevitable release of another version of Halo. I think my argument is that in guise of marketing and PR, this feature is being depriortized again when the simple truth is, they're strategically making this decision to prioritize a feature set that will open up new revenue streams from Halo. And while I don't blame them for trying to monetize this project, it completely goes against what they set out to do when they revisited the game 2 or so years ago. 343 claimed they were trying to right and fix all the wrongs with MCC. I remember when I first read the announcement that, after releasing the game 3 years ago, 343 was re-opening development in-order to do right by the fans. Think about that for a second - they were doing this for the fans. The game had already released, met with widespread criticism, patches and fixes were quickly issued to try and salvage the game as the population count dwindled. Any chance of generating revenue from this product had come and long been gone. And yet, while the rest of the gaming industry was too busy trying to monetize every little aspect of their products, we actually had a developer who was trying to fix a game that would likely no longer be profitable, in order to give the fans the products they deserved. I applauded 343 and MS for this move.

And guess what their announcement letter was full of? It was a detailed list of all the fixes they were going to deploy AND additional features they would be adding, as requested by the fans. And near the top of that list - A custom game browser.

I agree with you Ash and I'm certainly no programmer but we're not asking to reinvent the wheel here. A server list has been predominant in PC gaming for more than 2 decades. Hell, there's a Halo game that is currently using one and it was built by the same developer that is in charge of MCC. Add to the fact that some of the PC iterations of Halo already have this feature built out AND some of the MCC versions of Halo are the PC ports, and you can imagine my confusion with the challenges here. Not saying it isn't difficult but we're talking about a studio that has ported the last four versions of Halo to the current console and is currently working on porting a new version of Halo to the PC. If this isn't being done it's because to your point, it's not worth the effort since it's not likely to generate any immediate revenue. And that's what I find disappointing - A mission that started out very different than the rest of the industry ultimately altered course and became, once again, just about the bottom line.
I never would have guessed that this needs to be said, but here we are: if an entity devotes resources to accomplishing some task, then by necessity, they cannot accomplish other tasks as quickly. This community needs to grow up. People want Reach in MCC and MCC on PC and all sorts of new things, and they want a custom games browser, file share, and piles of QOL enhancements and bug fixes all at the same time. It doesn't work that way, and it never will.

The custom game browser will come. 343 is focusing on other things right now, and whether you accept how important those things are or not, you're going to need to just be patient.
Again - this has nothing to do with the community needing to grow up - this has everything to do with waiting 2 decades for a feature that's been actively worked on for many iterations of the Halo franchise, only for it to never show up. And after waiting 2 years to do what XBConnect did 15 years ago - we get an announcement from the developer that the game will be fixed and that this feature will be added since it's a highly requested feature. And after waiting a year and half with little to no information, we learn that it's now being depriortized in favor of other features that weren't even on the list originally.

You're kidding yourself if you think Reach coming to MCC was initially on the list - not saying it wasn't highly requested, just saying it found it's way onto the list well after their initial update. The reason the Reach port is being prioritized is plain and simple: by releasing a "new" Halo game to the MCC, 343 and MS are hoping to get people excited and bring them back to MCC. The more fans you get back into the Halo franchise - the better the sales for Halo Infinite and ultimately Project Scorpio.

It's just about the bottom line - which is a shift in narrative from what 343 had said two years ago when they promised to implement the initial fixes and changes. It was initially for the fans - now it's not. It's the communities responsibility to cry foul when things like this happen. Frankly, it's quite the opposite of being childish.
Bobert 360 wrote:
It's just about the bottom line - which is a shift in narrative from what 343 had said two years ago when they promised to implement the initial fixes and changes. It was initially for the fans - now it's not. It's the communities responsibility to cry foul when things like this happen. Frankly, it's quite the opposite of being childish.
No, bringing MCC to PC and Reach to MCC is still for the fans. They were 2 of the most requested features that players wanted to see. Maybe they weren't initially included in what 343 thought they could do with MCC, but when they ultimately decided to do these things, they required special attention because--let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players. Bringing Reach to MCC is probably not going to represent some huge boon in income for 343. Sure, there will be some profit, but it's not like it will generate the same revenue as a new release. People will most likely buy second hand copies of MCC to get the Reach update if they don't already have MCC, in which case 343 wouldn't see much revenue in terms of new copies of MCC sold.
Looking at MCC on PC, this will likely generate much more revenue, but Halo being on PC isn't just about that. It's been something the PC crowd has been asking for ever since Halo 3. This is still very much for the fans, just a set of fans who have mostly not been a part of Halo in years. Maybe to you, the PC release doesn't mean much, since you're a console player; I can say the same, as it's not like I'm gonna switch to PC, so PC-related news does little for me. But there are thousands of Halo fans (likely more) for whom this news matters very much. So it's not that 343 has changed the narrative. They've just included more people in the narrative.
And furthermore, beyond Reach and PC, they've made MCC much better in the 2 years since promising to fix it. They never said the fix would be instantaneous, and they haven't said they'll stop trying to make it better once Reach and the PC release are complete. They also haven't stopped working on fixes; even while they work on Reach and the PC release, they're simultaneously working on small fixes that they can introduce with smaller patches.
I can understand being salty over a feature you were extremely excited about being pushed back in favor of features that may not matter as much to you, but don't try to paint that as some scheme by the devs. This whole project has been for the fans; there was no mandate from Microsoft to fix or add to MCC. Even with the additional help their getting from outside devs, it's still a pretty small group working on MCC compared to something like Infinite. The customs browser isn't cancelled, and in all honesty, having more players join MCC due to the PC release and Reach will only benefit the customs browser when it finally does come out
Chimera30 wrote:
Bobert 360 wrote:
It's just about the bottom line - which is a shift in narrative from what 343 had said two years ago when they promised to implement the initial fixes and changes. It was initially for the fans - now it's not. It's the communities responsibility to cry foul when things like this happen. Frankly, it's quite the opposite of being childish.
No, bringing MCC to PC and Reach to MCC is still for the fans. They were 2 of the most requested features that players wanted to see. Maybe they weren't initially included in what 343 thought they could do with MCC, but when they ultimately decided to do these things, they required special attention because--let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players. Bringing Reach to MCC is probably not going to represent some huge boon in income for 343. Sure, there will be some profit, but it's not like it will generate the same revenue as a new release. People will most likely buy second hand copies of MCC to get the Reach update if they don't already have MCC, in which case 343 wouldn't see much revenue in terms of new copies of MCC sold.
Looking at MCC on PC, this will likely generate much more revenue, but Halo being on PC isn't just about that. It's been something the PC crowd has been asking for ever since Halo 3. This is still very much for the fans, just a set of fans who have mostly not been a part of Halo in years. Maybe to you, the PC release doesn't mean much, since you're a console player; I can say the same, as it's not like I'm gonna switch to PC, so PC-related news does little for me. But there are thousands of Halo fans (likely more) for whom this news matters very much. So it's not that 343 has changed the narrative. They've just included more people in the narrative.
And furthermore, beyond Reach and PC, they've made MCC much better in the 2 years since promising to fix it. They never said the fix would be instantaneous, and they haven't said they'll stop trying to make it better once Reach and the PC release are complete. They also haven't stopped working on fixes; even while they work on Reach and the PC release, they're simultaneously working on small fixes that they can introduce with smaller patches.
I can understand being salty over a feature you were extremely excited about being pushed back in favor of features that may not matter as much to you, but don't try to paint that as some scheme by the devs. This whole project has been for the fans; there was no mandate from Microsoft to fix or add to MCC. Even with the additional help their getting from outside devs, it's still a pretty small group working on MCC compared to something like Infinite. The customs browser isn't cancelled, and in all honesty, having more players join MCC due to the PC release and Reach will only benefit the customs browser when it finally does come out
No u r wrong open ur eyes person above u right 100% dnt white nite 343
Chimera30 wrote:
Bobert 360 wrote:
It's just about the bottom line - which is a shift in narrative from what 343 had said two years ago when they promised to implement the initial fixes and changes. It was initially for the fans - now it's not. It's the communities responsibility to cry foul when things like this happen. Frankly, it's quite the opposite of being childish.
No, bringing MCC to PC and Reach to MCC is still for the fans. They were 2 of the most requested features that players wanted to see. Maybe they weren't initially included in what 343 thought they could do with MCC, but when they ultimately decided to do these things, they required special attention because--let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players. Bringing Reach to MCC is probably not going to represent some huge boon in income for 343. Sure, there will be some profit, but it's not like it will generate the same revenue as a new release. People will most likely buy second hand copies of MCC to get the Reach update if they don't already have MCC, in which case 343 wouldn't see much revenue in terms of new copies of MCC sold.
Looking at MCC on PC, this will likely generate much more revenue, but Halo being on PC isn't just about that. It's been something the PC crowd has been asking for ever since Halo 3. This is still very much for the fans, just a set of fans who have mostly not been a part of Halo in years. Maybe to you, the PC release doesn't mean much, since you're a console player; I can say the same, as it's not like I'm gonna switch to PC, so PC-related news does little for me. But there are thousands of Halo fans (likely more) for whom this news matters very much. So it's not that 343 has changed the narrative. They've just included more people in the narrative.
And furthermore, beyond Reach and PC, they've made MCC much better in the 2 years since promising to fix it. They never said the fix would be instantaneous, and they haven't said they'll stop trying to make it better once Reach and the PC release are complete. They also haven't stopped working on fixes; even while they work on Reach and the PC release, they're simultaneously working on small fixes that they can introduce with smaller patches.
I can understand being salty over a feature you were extremely excited about being pushed back in favor of features that may not matter as much to you, but don't try to paint that as some scheme by the devs. This whole project has been for the fans; there was no mandate from Microsoft to fix or add to MCC. Even with the additional help their getting from outside devs, it's still a pretty small group working on MCC compared to something like Infinite. The customs browser isn't cancelled, and in all honesty, having more players join MCC due to the PC release and Reach will only benefit the customs browser when it finally does come out
It simply gets back to over promising and under delivering, it's starting to seem like 343s strongest feature, and frankly it's a bad habit they seem unable to break.
Chimera30 wrote:
Bobert 360 wrote:
It's just about the bottom line - which is a shift in narrative from what 343 had said two years ago when they promised to implement the initial fixes and changes. It was initially for the fans - now it's not. It's the communities responsibility to cry foul when things like this happen. Frankly, it's quite the opposite of being childish.
No, bringing MCC to PC and Reach to MCC is still for the fans. They were 2 of the most requested features that players wanted to see. Maybe they weren't initially included in what 343 thought they could do with MCC, but when they ultimately decided to do these things, they required special attention because--let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players. Bringing Reach to MCC is probably not going to represent some huge boon in income for 343. Sure, there will be some profit, but it's not like it will generate the same revenue as a new release. People will most likely buy second hand copies of MCC to get the Reach update if they don't already have MCC, in which case 343 wouldn't see much revenue in terms of new copies of MCC sold.
Looking at MCC on PC, this will likely generate much more revenue, but Halo being on PC isn't just about that. It's been something the PC crowd has been asking for ever since Halo 3. This is still very much for the fans, just a set of fans who have mostly not been a part of Halo in years. Maybe to you, the PC release doesn't mean much, since you're a console player; I can say the same, as it's not like I'm gonna switch to PC, so PC-related news does little for me. But there are thousands of Halo fans (likely more) for whom this news matters very much. So it's not that 343 has changed the narrative. They've just included more people in the narrative.
And furthermore, beyond Reach and PC, they've made MCC much better in the 2 years since promising to fix it. They never said the fix would be instantaneous, and they haven't said they'll stop trying to make it better once Reach and the PC release are complete. They also haven't stopped working on fixes; even while they work on Reach and the PC release, they're simultaneously working on small fixes that they can introduce with smaller patches.
I can understand being salty over a feature you were extremely excited about being pushed back in favor of features that may not matter as much to you, but don't try to paint that as some scheme by the devs. This whole project has been for the fans; there was no mandate from Microsoft to fix or add to MCC. Even with the additional help their getting from outside devs, it's still a pretty small group working on MCC compared to something like Infinite. The customs browser isn't cancelled, and in all honesty, having more players join MCC due to the PC release and Reach will only benefit the customs browser when it finally does come out
All I was simply stating is that I'm disappointed that 343 is choosing to prioritize a feature that is going to bring them revenue over a feature that was announced over two years ago. I believe the narrative has shifted from "just for the fans" to "just for the fans and that cheddaaaa."

You're argument is that by bringing Reach to the PC, they're doing this for the fans and revenue is a side effect. I vehemently disagree with this assertion. Based off that logic any time any developer anywhere updates a game its "for the fans" and that's just simply not true. They're prioritizing porting Reach because they know that:
  1. It will refresh the existing MCC title on the consoles generating excitement
  2. It'll generate new revenue streams on the PC and the console (multiplayer is free, firefight and campaign are 10 bucks for the console version)
  3. It'll potentially expand the overall MCC pool since cross play between windows and Xbox has been a major push by MS.
I define doing something "just for the fans" as this: 343 released this title and people came in waves to purchase this and Xboxes. After launch, it became clear the game was virtually unplayable at times. The play pool flocked. 3 years went by and out of no where 343 committed to fixing this game. This is unprecedented. They weren't charging people for these patches and they had already received whatever revenue they could from a title who's reputation had been tarnished. Yet despite this, they were committed to this title. Now we can argue about the benefits of repairing a tarnished reputation and how that converts into increased revenue in the long term - but for now, I'd like to think that we're in agreement of 343's motive: supporting/fixing a game 3 years after the revenue well had dried up is a clear commitment to the fans.

You also contested how it's not a shift in narrative, rather the narrative now includes more people or different sets of people - so then remind me again how that's not changing the narrative? You're literally saying they initially announced one thing which impacted a group of people and then came back and adjusted what they announced to include different things which impacted a new set of people. That's the definition of a shift in narrative.

You next go on to discuss how none of the fixes were promised immediately, or instantaneously, and defend 343's effort in improving this game over the last two years but this is where I'm confused - NONE of these points were contested by me. I specifically applauded their efforts and even acknowledged the need to prioritize efforts that generate tangible, short term, revenue (as initially pointed out by Ash.) I'm not even going to get into the fact that I could argue delivering a CGB would be easier and roll-out faster than porting an entire title to two platforms, and even though logically this type of prioritization makes sense to me, I'm not an programmer so I don't feel qualified to talk about this specifically.

I don't quite understand this statement: "let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players"

Well of course expanding the title to a new platform is going to bring in new players (and revenue along side with it,) why else would they do it? And if a custom game browser was built out, it would impact everyone playing MCC, including Reach players. Again, launching a new game vs adding a feature to an existing one and the impact the two would have on the player pool were never contested. The only comparisons I ever made here were: Prioritizing a feature that generates revenue over one that generates player satisfaction and the resources needed to build out these features. I'd imagine building a server list for MCC is far less demanding than porting Reach to two different platforms, but again I'm no programmer so I can't speak to this. I'm just speculating.

In the end my point was simple: I'm expressing my frustration with the depriortization of a feature that the Halo titles should have originally shipped with, and was announced over two years ago. I believe the community has been more than patient and I don't think we're salty. It's our duty to vocalize things we feel are unjust - and last i checked I was doing that in a thread where the whole point was to express our frustration with Custom Game Browser being delayed, again.
Bobert 360 wrote:
In the end my point was simple: I'm expressing my frustration with the depriortization of a feature that the Halo titles should have originally shipped with, and was announced over two years ago. I believe the community has been more than patient and I don't think we're salty. It's our duty to vocalize things we feel are unjust - and last i checked I was doing that in a thread where the whole point was to express our frustration with Custom Game Browser being delayed, again.
It sounded more than just that. You made it a point to paint 343 in this money-grubbing light. The delaying of the Customs Browser is not "unjust"; the players aren't owed a Customs Browser. The only thing we were owed was a working game, and yes, it took a long while for fixes to come, but they came, and are still coming, so a mix of skepticism and gratitude is understandable in that regard. Adding a Customs Browser was already beyond the scope of fixing MCC; it wasn't a necessary feature, it was just something the team wanted (and still wants) to add to improve MCC. MCC doesn't need the Customs Browser any more than its needs Reach or to come to PC. It was extra. At the end of the day, you are just frustrated, which you have every right to be given how much you want this feature, but it's one thing to be frustrated and another to project this idea of scummy practice onto 343 over it. 343 purposefully never gave an estimate of release on this feature so there should never have been any expectation for it to be out by a certain time. And seeing as they haven't cancelled the feature as of yet, I see no reason to claim false promises or changed intentions.
Bobert 360 wrote:
I don't quite understand this statement: "let's face it--the benefits of bringing Reach to MCC and MCC to PC would extend to more people than a customs browser, which would really only benefit a percentage of existing MCC players"
What I mean is, what percentage of existing MCC players really focus on Custom Games? Yes, it was a high demand feature, and yes, I'm sure it would be used alot, but I doubt 100% of MCC players would heavily use it. Customs are versatile but not for everyone. I have no idea how populated the Browser would be compared to, let's say, the Match Composer. Maybe the data from H5's Customs Browser shows it to be a niche feature despite the number of people voicing their desire for it. Alternatively, the PC playerbase only has limited and outdated Halo offerings currently available. So, in terms of numbers, bringing MCC to PC would benefit more people than the customs browser, so I can see why that would take priority. MCC is largely fixed now; it is playable and much more stable than it was in its early years. So with major fixes applied, there is room to add extra improvements, like the Customs Browser. Does it really matter what order the extras are added in? Seems to me that the only amount it matters is how much an individual player values a particular extra feature; beyond that, so long as all promised extras are added, I don't think the order matters all that much, unless there is some future point in time where you'd no longer be able to play MCC for some reason.
Bobert 360 wrote:
You also contested how it's not a shift in narrative, rather the narrative now includes more people or different sets of people - so then remind me again how that's not changing the narrative? You're literally saying they initially announced one thing which impacted a group of people and then came back and adjusted what they announced to include different things which impacted a new set of people. That's the definition of a shift in narrative.
I see the narrative as "we want to fix and improve MCC". In that regard, the narrative hasn't changed. They're still working towards that. What fixes and what improvements they add can grow without changing the narrative. I never saw the narrative as only "we're adding customs browser to MCC". That was a part of the narrative, and that part hasn't changed; they're still planning to add it. So, again, the level of disappointment in the browser's delay comes down to how much patience one has. And it's not a crime to be impatient, but it should be recognized that just because they don't focus on a feature that you value more doesn't mean there is foul play.
Chimera30 wrote:
It sounded more than just that. You made it a point to paint 343 in this money-grubbing light. The delaying of the Customs Browser is not "unjust"; the players aren't owed a Customs Browser. The only thing we were owed was a working game, and yes, it took a long while for fixes to come, but they came, and are still coming, so a mix of skepticism and gratitude is understandable in that regard. Adding a Customs Browser was already beyond the scope of fixing MCC; it wasn't a necessary feature, it was just something the team wanted (and still wants) to add to improve MCC. MCC doesn't need the Customs Browser any more than its needs Reach or to come to PC. It was extra. At the end of the day, you are just frustrated, which you have every right to be given how much you want this feature, but it's one thing to be frustrated and another to project this idea of scummy practice onto 343 over it. 343 purposefully never gave an estimate of release on this feature so there should never have been any expectation for it to be out by a certain time. And seeing as they haven't cancelled the feature as of yet, I see no reason to claim false promises or changed intentions.
No I really didn't, I called a spade a spade. You're trying to paint this illusion that this move is strictly for the fans and that they've reprioritized this feature set as a reaction to fan requests. Any additional revenue this move will generate is just an unintended consequence. That's what I'm disagreeing with - I don't believe this is a move just for the fans. Fixing a game 3 years after it was deployed is. You mentioned that we aren't owed anything except a working game. Well 3 years after the failure of the launch - the hype had moved on. MCC was broken and it was an accepted fact. If MS had chosen not to fix this game, not many people would have blinked an eye. The legacy of MCC was already pre-determined as a "what could have been" not "what is." 343 breathed new life into this game by vowing to fix the game and get it playable. Again that's never been contested. But when they announced that development had resumed on the patches, a CGB was one of the features in development. 343 themselves have admitted this has been a highly requested feature for quite some time now which is why it was near the top of the list. Now if they were re-shuffling priorities to launch other free features, sure I'd be disappointed, but I could understand. But to try to paint the argument as "no no they're just de-priortizing your most requested feature and therefore you're salty. This is better for the community, oh and they're just so happening to make some cash on the side with the launch of Reach" I'm sorry - I'm not buying it. Again I understand their a business first but let's not try and disguise what they're doing here.

Chimera30 wrote:
What I mean is, what percentage of existing MCC players really focus on Custom Games? Yes, it was a high demand feature, and yes, I'm sure it would be used alot, but I doubt 100% of MCC players would heavily use it. Customs are versatile but not for everyone. I have no idea how populated the Browser would be compared to, let's say, the Match Composer. Maybe the data from H5's Customs Browser shows it to be a niche feature despite the number of people voicing their desire for it. Alternatively, the PC playerbase only has limited and outdated Halo offerings currently available. So, in terms of numbers, bringing MCC to PC would benefit more people than the customs browser, so I can see why that would take priority. MCC is largely fixed now; it is playable and much more stable than it was in its early years. So with major fixes applied, there is room to add extra improvements, like the Customs Browser. Does it really matter what order the extras are added in? Seems to me that the only amount it matters is how much an individual player values a particular extra feature; beyond that, so long as all promised extras are added, I don't think the order matters all that much, unless there is some future point in time where you'd no longer be able to play MCC for some reason.
Alright there are a few things that I'd like to point out here. First if the requirement for adding a new feature to a game is that the feature would need 100% engagement, then new features would never be added to any game. I have friends who never play campaign and jump straight to multiplayer, I have friends who live religiously in the campaigns. I have friends who are always on Custom Games because that's all they ever care for, and I have friends who have invested hours upon hours in Forge, while others don't even know what Forge is. The point is the sandbox is there and you can play whatever aspect of the game that you want. Now look online - there are custom game websites that have been created due to the lack of an offiical CGB. I highly doubt the engagement would be low but without an accurate data set; we'd both be speculating.

Regarding your PC Player-base comment; Halo CE on PC already has a CGB so of course they're going to flock to Reach if it's released - because they're able to use the CGB today. I'd argue, however, that the overall engagement of a CGB would remain high despite the launch of Halo MCC/Reach on PC. Lastly, regarding the order of extras that are added. Are you really telling me it makes more sense logistically to priortize porting an entire game to 2 new platforms OVER building out a server list that's already available through some iterations of the game? That makes no sense logistically. It makes complete sense from an ROI perspective. If you know that porting MCC to PC and including Reach will generate revenue, of course you would reallocate/shuffle your priority list and resources accordingly. Again, there's a clear reason why they're doing this. Doesn't make them terrible people, just makes them like the rest of the industry.

Chimera30 wrote:
I see the narrative as "we want to fix and improve MCC". In that regard, the narrative hasn't changed. They're still working towards that. What fixes and what improvements they add can grow without changing the narrative. I never saw the narrative as only "we're adding customs browser to MCC". That was a part of the narrative, and that part hasn't changed; they're still planning to add it. So, again, the level of disappointment in the browser's delay comes down to how much patience one has. And it's not a crime to be impatient, but it should be recognized that just because they don't focus on a feature that you value more doesn't mean there is foul play.
I'm sorry but the narrative in my opinion was we're doing this for the fans. It's become blatantly obvious to me through the community updates that they didn't care about just fixing a broken game or making a quick buck. To me it seemed like they were raising their hands and acknowledging they had let the community down with MCC and they wanted to remedy and salvage this to regain our trust and their reputation. It was commendable, honorable and with all the patches being released for free; no one could have questioned their motives. But to tell me now, as you glance on the upcoming feature set, and you see two highly requested features - both fan pleasing - but one tied directly to revenue and to say no this is for the community; I'm sorry I just don't buy it. If Reach was 100% free I'd understand but the fact remains that it's not.
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