A large chunk of spawns are vulnerable (easily visible) and too far away from a precision pick-up, spawning with a dmr contests spawn pressure, against any competant player you will be shot and you cannot return damage.
The actual issue with DMR starts in terms of spawning is that there's always a huge crew (like in 4v4, 8v8) pointing at yourself and other fresh spawns. Even when having the tools (the DMR), you cannot contest them, just run and hope they fail their shots or a teammate assists you. You can't only depend on enemy failures to survive spawning. When everyone spawns with AR + Pistol, there are simply not enough damaging precision weapons to shut down the spawning players or to prevent any kind of comeback (ammo comes in to play, this part is negated in DMR starts). Again your bases usually have some DMR/Needle Rifle spawns, or a Sniper, and if not, that's horrendous map design. Even Pinnacle (the map you mention) had some precision weapons to fight over and in the respective bases. Moreover, those "vulnerable chunks" don't disappear with DMR starts. You depend on luck to fight with a spawn killer at the other side of the map (due to the extreme DMR range capabilities). Either tune them appropiately or remove them from the rotation. There are plenty of DLC Halo CE maps and forge good designs to prevent those issues.
Quote:i've inferred in other threads though ill infer here, if a single player is good enough to time weapons and survive (h3 ~35) then they can use the weapons to secure the rest. Once a team controls the strong power weapons (rocket + snipe) then in AR starts players need to go into a large score deficit to break control and make it neutral again. Since the other team that wins power weapons will gain precision weapon control, players with no range have to run to get into cqb range for ar/pistol to contest dmr/nr + snipe, rocks. With dmr players have more leverage. in ar starts if you lose control of one, ar/magnum is trash and loses the rest. The starting fight is sloppy but once a team has the stronger advantage they sweep away the other teams advantages, thats halo, but once you die you spawn with a 10m max range, slow killtime capability and no precision that has no means to contest.
Are you telling me that the "good player" took some weapons and then proceeded to trash the other team and got the rest of precision weapons + power weapons? Are you telling me that the way Halo is designed, where you can only carry 2 different weapons, allowed that? That undeniably demonstrates that the skill matching is the issue. Where were the other players in the enemy team? Didn't they have another "good player" that could do the same? As much as I like DMR starts, these lies are getting annoying. There are more power weapons and you can also be more dynamic to outskill your opponents. Undoubtedly, players who gain map control or too many powerful weapons tend to forget about strategies and just shot mindlessly, in the majority of the times. However, if we're taking into consideration that theoretical situation (haven't even seen it in H2 SMG starts), you even admitted that while they would have to go through a large score deficit, they would eventually regain control and make it neutral again. That's the point: constant turns of power. Also, you're discussing as if we were talking about old auto starts, where you were left with things like an SMG, which could fill that "10 max range" role. This is not the case in Reach, again the Magnum is quite a decent weapon if used correctly (pacing, strafe, crouching...). I showed the Magnum variants because I don't deny it can be buffed to be even better (and can be tested afterwards to see if we end up with something more powerful than the DMR).
Quote:no other shooter game spawns you with such horrible potential. At least quake has item abundance and fast movespeed. The romanticism is delusional. You self admit the reach pistol sucks, that doesn't make it admirable when precidion weapons are pickups with ammo as or more abundant than the pistol off-spawn. It has no range and your only advice for effectiveness is to not move and crouch. Not moving when you have no power is a death sentence. Most Reach 4v4 maps don't have hiding poditions, not ones safe from being collapsed on.
Other shooter games, like everyone seems to point out, are not relevant to the Halo nature. The moment the items you can carry are decreased and your move speed is slowed down, you can't compare them. I didn't say the Reach pistol sucked, just that it could use some kind of slight buff that decreases spread to allow it to compete at further ranges, where the DMRs/Needle Rifles (which you have access too) succed. On the other hand, not moving and crouching were my only advices because I'm tired of repeating the same arguments over and over. I can explain more of them if you want. Furthermore, most maps have a lot of hiding positions (Reflection, Powerhouse, Anchor 9, Battle Creek...), and if not tune them appropriately. Bad map design doesn't disappear with AR + Magnum starts, but neither does with spawning with a stronger than usual utility weapon.
That "decent" utility weapon is not the Reach we have right now. Bloom is not going to be removed in Social (the place where we're talking about), at the very least it will be decreased even more (right now is at 85%), but in competitive I'd agree with you. The DMR with zero bloom would need both changes (regular zoom and slower rate of fire) to be on par with the rest of the sandbox. Otherwise, the DMR ends up being the superior weapon again. As for the statement of "with a DMR/Sniper in your hands you can shut out all other power weapons and keep teams zoned. I do this all the time. They cannot contest, even good players will struggle as the have no means to kill me", if it were true, the same would apply to DMR starts. Every player with a Sword or Rockets can shut down that alone DMR/Sniper player with the correct tactic/surprising. They have plenty of ways to combat you, and if not, those are not good players from my point of view. I can use those power weapons in DMR starts with a lot of players with them, why wouldn't I in a game where just one player has one of them?
I can say the same for DMR starts; only in games where players don't know where spawn points or they don't know how to get the maximum potential of the DMR it doesn't affect the game. Comebacks are more reliable with DMR starts, of course, but they're more challenging and rewarding with a decent utility weapon that's more balanced: the Magnum.
At the end of the day, I'd like to say that I'm fond of the way DMR/BR balances the sandbox and player environment. This is perfect for competitive purposes or for easier tasks, and that's why the have a place in both, Social and Competitive. So, we're not trying to remove them, just give the ones who want (the old Reach players, who are a huge playerbase, or players that are new, find competitiveness in other playstyles, or want a more relaxed experience) an option in the Match Composer. Then, offer the same for the old auto starts (balanced or not, they were official gametypes and must be there for those who enjoy them). You can skip them if you don't want them. Doesn't affect you at all. Moreover, if you're going to point out population issues, I think the old Reach playerbase is enough. They're already hosting crowded custom games.