Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Do you love Halo? Then stop apologizing for 343i.

OP NNMS MXMS

I posted some of this in another thread, but it really is more of a discussion topic than a support one. I have previously requested that people keep discussion topics out of the support forum, so I will follow my own advice.

There are two bothersome trends I have noticed since the release of MCC:

1. People comparing the MCC release to the apocalypse.
2. People belittling those who complain.

Both are counterproductive. For the former, if you are unhappy with the game functionality, feel free to lodge your dissatisfaction. I certainly have. But please keep the comparisons to domestic violence and murder and other such melodrama out of your complaint. It serves no purpose other than to make you sound immature (at best) or downright offensive.

For the latter, if you are happy with your purchase, feel free to say so. But please refrain from projecting your satisfaction onto the experiences that others have had. Just because you are satisfied with your purchase does not mean that everyone else must be satisfied as well. There are incontrovertible issues with the game in which promised functionality has not yet been delivered. These issues may not matter to you, but they do matter to some of us. We have every right to voice our displeasure - be it in one thread or in many.

As a consumer, we have three basic options if what we purchase does not deliver the promised performance:

1. Complain
2. Ignore
3. Return

The video game industry has been consistently poor at releasing major titles without bugs that render significant portions of the game unusable. While perfect releases are likely impossible due to the complexity of the games and the inability to test all conditions under which a game may be played prior to release, there is no question that the situation could be improved - perhaps dramatically so. However, unless someone gives the studios a reason to improve, there is no incentive for them to do so.

At some point, an outsider will take advantage of this situation and make an entry into the market with a focus on usability and reliability. The nearest analogy is Apple with tablet computing. The true consumer tablet market was actually initiated by Microsoft in 2002 with the release of their Microsoft Tablet PC specifications. However, all of the tablets that followed were plagued by reliability and usability issues with the operating system and incompletely tested hardware. 12 years later, the terms "tablet" and "iPad" are almost interchangeable despite Apple not having released a tablet until 2010. Apple started work on the iPad a decade prior to the release with the idea that - if they released a tablet that did not require an advanced degree in computing - they would dominate the market. They were right.

The video game industry at present is ripe for such an outside entry. Both the PS4 and Xbox One have truly awful user interfaces (even though Microsoft largely got it right by the end of the 360's time and then inexplicably screwed it up with the One) and the games that run on them have a host of reliability issues - some of which are certainly due to the operating system and not the game itself. Should such an outside, Apple-esque entry happen prior to the Halo saga playing out, Halo will suffer an early death because the market for Xbox One games will rapidly deplete.

Is that what you want?

Unless consumers make it clear to the manufacturers that the current trend of releasing partially functional software and patching it later is unacceptable, an industry shakeup is inevitable. The game we all want to continue playing (along with our $600+ investment in Xbox One equipment) will die before its time. Complaints have a habit of spreading far and wide, and they do affect the manufacturer's pocketbook. Word-of-mouth is what killed the second-year sales for Halo 4 (and it's also what kept Halo 3 so popular for so long). Word-of-mouth will similarly affect the future MCC sales. That is the incentive that complaints provide.

Many complaints are way over-the-top, and those ought to be curtailed. As a community, we should feel free to criticize people who post in such a childish manner. But criticizing them for the act of posting a complaint does not help 343i or Microsoft. All it does is help reinforce the counterproductive strategy followed by game manufacturers of releasing partially broken software and patching it later - a strategy that will ultimately makes existing manufacturers vulnerable to a new entry, with the concomitant consequence that future releases of Halo either suffer in quality or will not even be made.

Defending 343i - or belittling those who do complain - does not help the community. It does not help 343i. It does not help Microsoft. If you really love Halo and you really want 343i to succeed, you would not be defending them. You would not be belittling those who complain.

They will not change unless we provide them a reason to do so . . . and perhaps not even then. But I, for one, am willing to try.
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience
I'm going to admit something to you... I did not read your entire thread, this soapbox thing was a little lengthy but I'm going to go ahead and assume I got the gist.

My rebuttal is that the way the majority of the complainers are conducting themselves can be described a number of ways, chief among them being immature, close-minded, and irrational. These "complainers," are now downgraded to "haters," in status for the simple fact that that's all they're here to do. It's not much defending 343i as it is the level of stupidity that these haters are demonstrating.
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience
Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience
Blackberry apologists said the same thing. Ask them how that worked out.

Hint: Now they defend Blackberry by tweeting with their iPhones.
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience

Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.
That's a 2 way street you know. All of what you said actually.

Unfortunately I do agree that the game is in an unacceptable state, personally I've stopped playing all together for the moment, and the silence is annoying but giving answers at the moment may cause more problems than it solves. Best thing to do now is wait and hope, we'll get our answers eventually.
My whole issue is that 343i is doing what they can.....they have owned up to their mistakes and are working on it unlike Bungie and EA plus they are being open.

I just hate it when people say they "lied" when they did not lie....bugs and server issues got in the way.
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience


Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.

That's a 2 way street you know. All of what you said actually.



But Snip3rJoe never claimed to know.
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience


Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.


That's a 2 way street you know. All of what you said actually.



But Snip3rJoe never claimed to know.
Ah, true, for some reason I assumed he was blaming solely 343.
Baron Kit wrote:
My whole issue is that 343i is doing what they can.....they have owned up to their mistakes and are working on it unlike Bungie and EA plus they are being open.

I just hate it when people say they "lied" when they did not lie....bugs and server issues got in the way.
Hi, Kat! Long time no see. :)

And yes, complaints should stick to factual statements. Delivering a faulty product and lying are two entirely different things.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
My whole issue is that 343i is doing what they can.....they have owned up to their mistakes and are working on it unlike Bungie and EA plus they are being open.

I just hate it when people say they "lied" when they did not lie....bugs and server issues got in the way.

Hi, Kat! Long time no see. :)

And yes, complaints should stick to factual statements. Delivering a faulty product and lying are two entirely different things.
I will not lie at first when I saw the title and then who the OP was I was kinda let down.....until I read the OP that is :). I agree with you to an extent.

I feel the MCC deserves a break TBH this whole 5 diff multiplayers on same server things has never been done before....as long as this patch is a good one I will still 100% support them.

Like I tell everyone who brings up the whole they "lied" thing, if you want to see real lies....look at Destiny.
NNMS MXMS wrote:

The video game industry has been consistently poor at releasing major titles without bugs that render significant portions of the game unusable. While perfect releases are likely impossible due to the complexity of the games and the inability to test all conditions under which a game may be played prior to release, there is no question that the situation could be improved - perhaps dramatically so. However, unless someone gives the studios a reason to improve, there is no incentive for them to do so.

At some point, an outsider will take advantage of this situation and make an entry into the market with a focus on usability and reliability. The nearest analogy is Apple with tablet computing. The true consumer tablet market was actually initiated by Microsoft in 2002 with the release of their Microsoft Tablet PC specifications. However, all of the tablets that followed were plagued by reliability and usability issues with the operating system and incompletely tested hardware. 12 years later, the terms "tablet" and "iPad" are almost interchangeable despite Apple not having released a tablet until 2010. Apple started work on the iPad a decade prior to the release with the idea that - if they released a tablet that did not require an advanced degree in computing - they would dominate the market. They were right.

The video game industry at present is ripe for such an outside entry. Both the PS4 and Xbox One have truly awful user interfaces (even though Microsoft largely got it right by the end of the 360's time and then inexplicably screwed it up with the One) and the games that run on them have a host of reliability issues - some of which are certainly due to the operating system and not the game itself. Should such an outside, Apple-esque entry happen prior to the Halo saga playing out, Halo will suffer an early death because the market for Xbox One games will rapidly deplete.

A very astute observation. What you predict may be already happening.

MechWarrior Online was in Beta for 3 years. Space Engineers (available on Steam for ~$20) has been in Alpha for a year and has been consistently getting updates/bugfixes on a weekly basis.

Hard release dates with little or no real world testing just doesn't work. The "new normal" has to be early access and prompt attention to problems by the developers. No fan base is more loyal than one that can participate in making the game.
Baron Kit wrote:

I will not lie at first when I saw the title and then who the OP was I was kinda let down.....until I read the OP that is :). I agree with you to an extent.

I feel the MCC deserves a break TBH this whole 5 diff multiplayers on same server things has never been done before....as long as this patch is a good one I will still 100% support them.

Like I tell everyone who brings up the whole they "lied" thing, if you want to see real lies....look at Destiny.
My issue is not so much that I think 343i "sucks" or that they did anything outside what the industry considers normal. I think 343i cares about its fanbase - and the franchise they are continuing - more than most other game manufacturers out there. For the most part, their heart is in the right place. I am certainly not cancelling my H5 preorder (unless things get MUCH worse with the MCC . . . something I find is highly unlikely).

My primary issue is that the industry norm is unacceptable. People buy games based on the functionality that is advertised. The manufacturer controls that advertising, and signs up to be responsible for delivering it.

This is a different situation than H4, in which the game was functional . . . it just offered a different take on Halo that many people did not like. So while I defended 343i for H4 (but pleaded with them to go back to a formula that worked), I cannot defend them for the MCC. And I think it is counterproductive to defend them for the MCC. Defending this launch cannot possibly help them to succeed in the future because that defense says that the launch was acceptable as long as they work hard to fix it afterwards. They are already doing that. The defense provides no incentive for change.

A very astute observation. What you predict may be already happening.

MechWarrior Online was in Beta for 3 years. Space Engineers (available on Steam for ~$20) has been in Alpha for a year and has been consistently getting updates/bugfixes on a weekly basis.

Hard release dates with little or no real world testing just doesn't work. The "new normal" has to be early access and prompt attention to problems by the developers. No fan base is more loyal than one that can participate in making the game.
Minecraft is another great example. Those players who participate in the Reddit forum really do help make the game - especially with the Pocket Edition.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:

I will not lie at first when I saw the title and then who the OP was I was kinda let down.....until I read the OP that is :). I agree with you to an extent.

I feel the MCC deserves a break TBH this whole 5 diff multiplayers on same server things has never been done before....as long as this patch is a good one I will still 100% support them.

Like I tell everyone who brings up the whole they "lied" thing, if you want to see real lies....look at Destiny.

My issue is not so much that I think 343i "sucks" or that they did anything outside what the industry considers normal. I think 343i cares about its fanbase - and the franchise they are continuing - more than most other game manufacturers out there. For the most part, their heart is in the right place. I am certainly not cancelling my H5 preorder (unless things get MUCH worse with the MCC . . . something I find is highly unlikely).

My primary issue is that the industry norm is unacceptable. People buy games based on the functionality that is advertised. The manufacturer controls that advertising, and signs up to be responsible for delivering it.

This is a different situation than H4, in which the game was functional . . . it just offered a different take on Halo that many people did not like. So while I defended 343i for H4 (but pleaded with them to go back to a formula that worked), I cannot defend them for the MCC. And I think it is counterproductive to defend them for the MCC.
And that is something I 100% agree with you on.

But...while I will not white knight the MCC I will oppose stupidity. (I,E " They lied. "
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience

Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.
I agree completely.....
Baron Kit wrote:

And that is something I 100% agree with you on.

But...while I will not white knight the MCC I will oppose stupidity. (I,E " They lied. "
Agree back at you. :)
A very astute observation. What you predict may be already happening.

MechWarrior Online was in Beta for 3 years. Space Engineers (available on Steam for ~$20) has been in Alpha for a year and has been consistently getting updates/bugfixes on a weekly basis.

Hard release dates with little or no real world testing just doesn't work. The "new normal" has to be early access and prompt attention to problems by the developers. No fan base is more loyal than one that can participate in making the game.
Honestly, I truly hope Mechwarrior online is not the future of video gaming. Never have I been so disappointed by a video game. The constant failure to fix simple game breaking bugs, missed release dates, and constant addition of packs that are supposed to be micro transactions but are anything but micro. I loved the old mechwaarrior games, but this doesn't really live up to what they promised at the start. 343 would have a long way to go before they could reach the same level of disappointment with the MCC.

That said, space engineers looks fun, but I am more and more hesitant to buy in to early access games, especially after MWO. I may grab it during the next big steam sale.
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience

Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.
Nor do you know that it was not their fault. I will admit to be a little presumptuous with my first comment, but no one outside of 343 knows why this happens so in a way we are both wrong.
Snip3rJoe wrote:
Don't complain about something that was out of there control, grow up and learn patience


Love posts this, as if you have even the slightest idea of what was going on between 343 or Microsoft, or who is to blame. This is the biggest xbox one launch game to date, its unacceptable that it plays like, and what's more unacceptable is them keeping quiet for the last few months knowing how bad a condition it was going to be in at launch.

Nor do you know that it was not their fault. I will admit to be a little presumptuous with my first comment, but no one outside of 343 knows why this happens so in a way we are both wrong.
It's not really relevant. 343i advertised the game. 343i sold the game. 343i is responsible for the game. It is never wrong to criticize the manufacturer for delivering a faulty product, regardless of what happened behind-the-scenes. If the root cause is truly something outside of 343i's control (which is probably partially true), then it is 343i's responsibility to deal with that . . . not ours.