Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection

Evidence of just how bad BTB is

OP Jotaro Kujo PhD

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We all know that Halo 3 dominates most, if not all cross-game playlists in the MCC, especially BTB. But I wanted to find out just how much it would come up in comparison to the other games. I was inspired by a post I saw on r/halo that showed that Halo 3 came up 84% of the time in 50 matches. Over the past month I played and recorded the BTB matches I played, including the Halo selected, the map name, the gametype, and the number of quitters. Because of this, I think I'm done with BTB for a long time.

For starters, I have confirmed many people's suspicions about quitters, or that there are noticeably more quitters in CE and Halo 2 than in Halo 3. CE and H2 average 4-5 quitters per match and 3 quitters per match, respectively, and Halo 3 averages 2 quitters. Surprisingly, H4 only averaged 2-3 per match, and H2A showed the lowest number of quitters on average: 1-2. Of course, any numbers not associated with H3 aren't extremely reliable, as these games were played much less often.

As for gametypes, slayer and CTF variants dominated. 37% of all matches were slayer variants and 38% were CTF. Only 4% were dominion, and another 4% were assault variants. 9% were territories or 3 plots and 8% were KOTH variants (mostly H3 crazy king...ARs in BTB have to be an oversight on 343's part).

Now we get to the fun part: how often H3 was played. These two images sum up the bulk of my findings. I'll describe them in case the link doesn't work. Halo 3 won the vote 66% of the time; thus my data indicate that one will play on it 2 out of every 3 matches. The next most popular game, H4, won the vote 11% of the time. CE and H2 were about even, getting voted for 8% and 9% of the time, respectively. Finally, H2A was voted for in only 6% of all lobbies. H3 may not have won the vote 84% of the time, but 66% is still very bad.

The map frequencies were interesting in that despite H3 taking up the overwhelming majority of my matches, some H3 maps came up far more often than others. Last Resort, for example, was played in 15 matches, and Valhalla was played in 13. Together, these two maps alone took up more than a quarter of all matches played. Standoff came up 10 times, Rat's Nest 9, and Avalanche and Longshore 8 each. What was very surprising was that Sand Tarp took up only 3% of all matches, which was how often Coagulation was voted for and was actually 1% less than Bloodline's frequency. I guess Sand Tarp CTF is unpopular even among the H3 crowd.
Every other map that got voted for took up only 1% or 2% of all matches played. I never even played an entire third of the 43 maps in BTB. These include: Gephyrophobia; Hang 'em High; Sidewinder; Zanzibar; Containment; District; Remnant; Exile; Vortex; Harvest; Outcast; Perdition; Vertigo; and Ravine.

Did I waste my time? Maybe, but I wanted to get lots of numbers to show how bad the BTB situation is. The data I collected may not be completely representative of everyone's experience, due to disconnects, premature endings, or other things, but I believe the trends are. H3 shows up way too often and there is a serious quitting problem largely correlated with it not winning the vote. I can't even express how annoyed I get when someone immediately dashboards if Last Resort doesn't win for the umpteenth time. I'm utterly disgusted when I see tags like "H3 or I quit" or "H3 or I betray", and even more so when people actually betray because they didn't get what they wanted.

BTB is broken, and cross-game playlists are clearly colossal failures, as Truth would call them. Honestly, 343, you should just take away these playlists entirely, or at least remove voting. If you do the latter, I think that the map/gametype selection should be randomized, like it supposedly is in Halo 5. If there's one thing that must absolutely be done in the upcoming update, it's a total revamp of matchmaking itself.

Edit: The graphics I created were shared on r/halo as soon as I posted it here. I don't have a reddit account, so I can't participate in the conversation. But for anyone interested, check out the post over there.
I hope you keep the data going. More data will only strengthen the insights. It seems that in this case our collective feelings about the situation were fairly accurate. I am happily surprised that it's not quite as bad as I felt. I think the MCC should be weighted for Halo CE, Halo 2, and Halo 2 Anni. These three games can only be played here. Halo 3 and Halo 4 both are available on backwards compatibility.
This is a pretty spot-on observation, though I can say H2A is chosen a lot less than all the other games, perhaps even less than 6%. Since there are only 3 maps in the H2A rotation, it is way less likely for the game to even show up as an option in the voting screen, and the one extremely rare time it does show up is the time all the players are H3 fanatics and so it doesn't get picked anyway.

I remember a time when one-bomb-and one-flag at Remnant was fairly common, and Gungoose CTF was the greatest BTB variant.(is it even in rotation anymore?) That was a blast. What happened?

I don't even know why people like Last Resort so much. I personally hate it, since there are really only 4 weapons on the map people actually use,(sniper rifle, rocket launcher, spartan laser, battle rifle) five vehicles nobody uses outside of the opening encounter, parts of the map most people never access, and very stale gameplay, especially after playing it so many times over my MCC career.

I'm ready for 343 to split BTB.
We all know that Halo 3 dominates most, if not all cross-game playlists in the MCC, especially BTB. But I wanted to find out just how much it would come up in comparison to the other games. I was inspired by a post I saw on r/halo that showed that Halo 3 came up 84% of the time in 50 matches. Over the past month I played and recorded the BTB matches I played, including the Halo selected, the map name, the gametype, and the number of quitters. Because of this, I think I'm done with BTB for a long time.

For starters, I have confirmed many people's suspicions about quitters, or that there are noticeably more quitters in CE and Halo 2 than in Halo 3. CE and H2 average 4-5 quitters per match and 3 quitters per match, respectively, and Halo 3 averages 2 quitters. Surprisingly, H4 only averaged 2-3 per match, and H2A showed the lowest number of quitters on average: 1-2. Of course, any numbers not associated with H3 aren't extremely reliable, as these games were played much less often.

As for gametypes, slayer and CTF variants dominated. 37% of all matches were slayer variants and 38% were CTF. Only 4% were dominion, and another 4% were assault variants. 9% were territories or 3 plots and 8% were KOTH variants (mostly H3 crazy king...ARs in BTB have to be an oversight on 343's part).

Now we get to the fun part: how often H3 was played. These two images sum up the bulk of my findings. I'll describe them in case the link doesn't work. Halo 3 won the vote 66% of the time; thus my data indicate that one will play on it 2 out of every 3 matches. The next most popular game, H4, won the vote 11% of the time. CE and H2 were about even, getting voted for 8% and 9% of the time, respectively. Finally, H2A was voted for in only 6% of all lobbies. H3 may not have won the vote 84% of the time, but 66% is still very bad.

The map frequencies were interesting in that despite H3 taking up the overwhelming majority of my matches, some H3 maps came up far more often than others. Last Resort, for example, was played in 15 matches, and Valhalla was played in 13. Together, these two maps alone took up more than a quarter of all matches played. Standoff came up 10 times, Rat's Nest 9, and Avalanche and Longshore 8 each. What was very surprising was that Sand Tarp took up only 3% of all matches, which was how often Coagulation was voted for and was actually 1% less than Bloodline's frequency. I guess Sand Tarp CTF is unpopular even among the H3 crowd.
Every other map that got voted for took up only 1% or 2% of all matches played. I never even played an entire third of the 43 maps in BTB. These include: Gephyrophobia; Hang 'em High; Sidewinder; Zanzibar; Containment; District; Remnant; Exile; Vortex; Harvest; Outcast; Perdition; Vertigo; and Ravine.

Did I waste my time? Maybe, but I wanted to get lots of numbers to show how bad the BTB situation is. The data I collected may not be completely representative of everyone's experience, due to disconnects, premature endings, or other things, but I believe the trends are. H3 shows up way too often and there is a serious quitting problem largely correlated with it not winning the vote. I can't even express how annoyed I get when someone immediately dashboards if Last Resort doesn't win for the umpteenth time. I'm utterly disgusted when I see tags like "H3 or I quit" or "H3 or I betray", and even more so when people actually betray because they didn't get what they wanted.

BTB is broken, and cross-game playlists are clearly colossal failures, as Truth would call them. Honestly, 343, you should just take away these playlists entirely, or at least remove voting. If they do the latter, I think that the map/gametype selection should be randomized, like it supposedly is in Halo 5. If there's one thing that must absolutely be done in the upcoming update, it's a total revamp of matchmaking itself.
I reddited that link sir. Good job with the data. Your findings are 95 percent accurate compared to the data I collected last year.
I'll I don't usually play BTB solo for this exact reason, good research. Here's some links of screenshots I happened to snap in past months when the better Halos get selected...

4 of 16
Entire blue team gone
Only 2 left
Over before it started

Sorry for the excessive links but just wanted to cement ops point and show how bad it is when H3 doesn't get selected. 343 please split up BTB or remove H3 and put it into it's own playlist so all the old folks can enjoy Halo again.
Yeah, I feel like Halo 3 needs it's BTB playlist. H3 fanatics can play all they want, and old guys like me can still enjoy BTB in different Halo games without constant quitters/betrayers
H3 dominates almost every playlist is available in I find, not just btb but... maybe not the right thread? still H3 is obviously a fan favourite
Completely agree. Very frustrating. Add me if u would be interested in possibly partying up to sway the vote, or if we get enough people to play some big team customs for ce/2.
No we agree here is a gap. But that’s how every game will be switching game to game of course
I live halo 3 with all my heart but i agree this is ridiculous. If i wanted to play halo 3 then i would go play halo 3. MCC is the place I go to play combat evolved and halo 2, also dominion.
Just analysing the graph and pie charts astounds me to realise how much BTB is a Halo 3-esque playlist. As a few of you mention give Halo 3 BTB its own playlist, remove map voting overall or reduce the chances of Halo 3 and certain maps showing up on the board. With quitting, I can confirm people are more likely jump ship if Halo 3 doesn't win the vote.

With the maps, another problem. If I can get a dollar every time Avalanche, Rats Nests, Last Resort, Vahalla and Longshore gets voted, I may as well buy everything in the Halo 5 REQ system. But seriously, it's annoying to see the same exact maps popping up on the screen for the 5th consecutive time. Did they ever thought of the chance the system will pick for each map?

Now I'm curious to see other cross-game playlist and how frequent each game gets their chance to shine.
Fair play on recording all that data.

My main frustration is that there are a lot of achievements for H2A MP, yet maps like Bloodline almost never appear.

There are also some achievements which can't be earned in Halo 3 matchmaking (such as grenade kill medals not counting towards the 500 grenade kill achievement, or Steaktacular medals not counting towards the legendary medals achievement).

I've stopped playing MCC, but would definitely come back if there was a BTB playlist without Halo 3.
Just analysing the graph and pie charts astounds me to realise how much BTB is a Halo 3-esque playlist. As a few of you mention give Halo 3 BTB its own playlist, remove map voting overall or reduce the chances of Halo 3 and certain maps showing up on the board. With quitting, I can confirm people are more likely jump ship if Halo 3 doesn't win the vote.

With the maps, another problem. If I can get a dollar every time Avalanche, Rats Nests, Last Resort, Vahalla and Longshore gets voted, I may as well buy everything in the Halo 5 REQ system. But seriously, it's annoying to see the same exact maps popping up on the screen for the 5th consecutive time. Did they ever thought of the chance the system will pick for each map?

Now I'm curious to see other cross-game playlist and how frequent each game gets their chance to shine.
In my experience, there seems to be much higher frequencies of the other Halos in most playlists. Team Slayer still seems skewed toward Halo 3, but I don't believe it's anywhere near as bad as BTB. Action Sack seems to skew toward Halo 4, if anything. I've never played Hardcore, but from what I've heard, almost every match is H3.
Just analysing the graph and pie charts astounds me to realise how much BTB is a Halo 3-esque playlist. As a few of you mention give Halo 3 BTB its own playlist, remove map voting overall or reduce the chances of Halo 3 and certain maps showing up on the board. With quitting, I can confirm people are more likely jump ship if Halo 3 doesn't win the vote.

With the maps, another problem. If I can get a dollar every time Avalanche, Rats Nests, Last Resort, Vahalla and Longshore gets voted, I may as well buy everything in the Halo 5 REQ system. But seriously, it's annoying to see the same exact maps popping up on the screen for the 5th consecutive time. Did they ever thought of the chance the system will pick for each map?

Now I'm curious to see other cross-game playlist and how frequent each game gets their chance to shine.
In my experience, there seems to be much higher frequencies of the other Halos in most playlists. Team Slayer still seems skewed toward Halo 3, but I don't believe it's anywhere near as bad as BTB. Action Sack seems to skew toward Halo 4, if anything. I've never played Hardcore, but from what I've heard, almost every match is H3.
Yeah, Your Practically right, It usually goes for Team Slayer from Most to Least Halo's, H3, CE, 2C And H2A. BTB is almost always H3 and if its not you will get millions of quitters which is just sad. Infection is for the most part H3 but it ain't as bad as Slayer or BTB, Action sack like you said is more towards halo 4 with occasionally some Halo 2 Classic from what I've played recently. Hardcore is practically always h3, never seen a h2 hardcore game picked unless its customs. Team snipes is always h3 from when I play it. Its kinda sad how much people pick halo 3 and if they don't get it, they'll just quit cause its not what they want. Its so biased and childish its ridiculous. I hope the cross game playlists aren't in in this new update and that each halo has their own set of playlists.
A lot of us bought the game to go back to Halo 2 online multiplayer, especially because it was devastating to a lot of people when it closed down. Hell, it was before my time in terms of playing Halo. Halo CE online was a nice little bonus added in. But, why do people always spring for Halo 3 on the same damn maps? It really pisses me off because as much as I like Halo 3, I like the other games too. Halo 3 (controversial opinion incoming) is actually my least favorite in the original trilogy, both story and gameplay wise. I'm not typically one to beg the guys over at 343 for anything, but we need a solution to this epidemic pronto.
With this new update coming along, they should definitely address these issues. It's just to big to go unnoticed.
Welp, haven't played this game much over the past few months and I didn't plan to until the update in spring, but I got the urge to play halo. So I searched about a dozen games in btb today and halo 3 won every time but 2. The 2 games I played weren't even fun. Halo 1 team slayer on blood gulch, 8 people quit immediately making it a 5v3, and on top of that there was a betrayer on each team. Then a bit later I played halo 2 Zanzibar ctf. 6 people quit a few mins into the first round, by the last round it was a 3v1. Wtf. Out of about 12 games only 2 weren't halo 3, this is why I stopped playing for a good awhile, and it's still the same, the halo 3 whiners are still out in full force. The 2018 spring update better come soon and change the voting because h3 is always an option, this was a halo 2 anniversary game, get 3 out of here, voting still needs to be fixed especially in btb. I doubt I'll even play again til this spring update
My favorite thing about the halo 3 community is when they play either CE or H2 and when the game is close which is usually at the beginning of the match or first round is when they quit. (Which is why most of us usually mess around and pretend they have a chance just to try to keep a game as close to full as possible lol) But if it’s halo 3 and the match is extremely lob sided like let’s say the score in a slayer match is 65 to 20 or a immediate flag capture no one leaves the game.
Would never happen in CE or H2, if you’re up by 15 kills or cap a flag it apparently boots people out of the game... lol

You leave a close game on H2 ctf but won’t leave a no chance of winning game on H3 is so infuriating. It’s like you’re choosing where to get your buttkicking and will only take it in a certain place.
Yep its literally H3 BTB only
Welp, haven't played this game much over the past few months and I didn't plan to until the update in spring, but I got the urge to play halo. So I searched about a dozen games in btb today and halo 3 won every time but 2. The 2 games I played weren't even fun. Halo 1 team slayer on blood gulch, 8 people quit immediately making it a 5v3, and on top of that there was a betrayer on each team. Then a bit later I played halo 2 Zanzibar ctf. 6 people quit a few mins into the first round, by the last round it was a 3v1. Wtf. Out of about 12 games only 2 weren't halo 3, this is why I stopped playing for a good awhile, and it's still the same, the halo 3 whiners are still out in full force. The 2018 spring update better come soon and change the voting because h3 is always an option, this was a halo 2 anniversary game, get 3 out of here, voting still needs to be fixed especially in btb. I doubt I'll even play again til this spring update
Wow, great gamertag. Anyway, I've been recently having more luck in getting different games when I party up after a match. If you get enough people together, you can really skew the vote in favor of something other than H3. A bit of a slimy tactic, but it works.
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