Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

[Locked] FIELD OF VIEW SLIDER ON MCC

OP Palumpalumpa

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It always amuses me when people who have no idea what they’re talking about talk about how easy something is.

Adding a slider for FOV is easy. Altering the camera matrix for the math is easy. DOOM can do it just fine in the idTech 6 engine, which is specifically designed for PC (then ported.)

I’d love to hear how someone who said it’d be easy would address alter the dynamic occlusion map. Are you going to rebake it for a higher FOV and mess with everyone else’s performance (higher draw calls?). Or are you suggesting write something that does all that math in real time? That’s not a minor piece of code, that’s a lot of really heavy math, which is why it’s baked. Or just bake it as it loads and increase the load time tenfold?

you already we see objects pop in and out of view sometimes at the edge of the screen in the Halo Ce campaign. That’s the occlusion map not expecting an HD aspect ratio.
Take that effort and multiply it by at least 4 since there are four games in MCC. It’s a huge undertaking to make the small percentage of the population that play 2 feet from a screen happy.

The FOV in Halo is optimized for a console because Halo is a console game made to sell Xboxes, which by definition need to be easier to play and create games for than PC.
It always amuses me when people who have no idea what they’re talking about talk about how easy something is.

Adding a slider for FOV is easy. Altering the camera matrix for the math is easy. DOOM can do it just fine in the idTech 6 engine, which is specifically designed for PC (then ported.)

I’d love to hear how someone who said it’d be easy would address alter the dynamic occlusion map. Are you going to rebake it for a higher FOV and mess with everyone else’s performance (higher draw calls?). Or are you suggesting write something that does all that math in real time? That’s not a minor piece of code, that’s a lot of really heavy math, which is why it’s baked. Or just bake it as it loads and increase the load time tenfold?

you already we see objects pop in and out of view sometimes at the edge of the screen in the Halo Ce campaign. That’s the occlusion map not expecting an HD aspect ratio.
Look if one single person can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlriRF5ogA
I hope Microsoft and 343 can do the same or better.
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
No insults. If you don't want to fiddle with settings it's totally fine but to use a FOV slider is very easy and can enhance the game experience to someones. Few or many I don't know but it would enhance my experience for sure.
I play on Xbox One X and pc, I expect Halo Infinite to support FOV on pc (they said "we're treating it as a first-class citizen") and I hope they will implement a FOV slider also on console. Maybe it will also support mouse and keyboard so they have to. I would love to have a FOV slider also on MCC, on console and on pc when they will eventually release MCC on pc.
And do you know what's the best part? That wouldn't affect your game experience at all if you don't want to.
It always amuses me when people who have no idea what they’re talking about talk about how easy something is.

Adding a slider for FOV is easy. Altering the camera matrix for the math is easy. DOOM can do it just fine in the idTech 6 engine, which is specifically designed for PC (then ported.)

I’d love to hear how someone who said it’d be easy would address alter the dynamic occlusion map. Are you going to rebake it for a higher FOV and mess with everyone else’s performance (higher draw calls?). Or are you suggesting write something that does all that math in real time? That’s not a minor piece of code, that’s a lot of really heavy math, which is why it’s baked. Or just bake it as it loads and increase the load time tenfold?

you already we see objects pop in and out of view sometimes at the edge of the screen in the Halo Ce campaign. That’s the occlusion map not expecting an HD aspect ratio.
Look if one single person can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlriRF5ogA
I hope Microsoft and 343 can do the same or better.
This is not even close to the same thing. A multiplayer map is easy because it's small, performance doesn't get dragged down if occlusion isn't handled well. All this guy did was make a way to manipulate the 4x4 matrix which defines how geometry is projected in the frustum. I would also imagine that the Halo 5 engine has very complex on-the-fly dynamic binary space partitions, which all of the guns and dynamic objects will be in, so you'll never even see issues with dynamic occlusion.

Here is the problem, and it comes down to an understanding of exactly what a level is. Every engine does things differently and there are lots of special things each engines do, but the major components are the same. The level creator creates the mesh, which is the physics object. And an artists overlays some textures and places lights. Then the engine does a LOT of work on it. I'd bet about 90% of the "load time" of any given map is lighting, which obviously is all precalculated, and takes up a lot of space because it's a combination of textures and octree voxels (often called Probes.). One of the other major jobs of the engine is to break the mesh up so that it can make physics calculations easier, for this is uses a binary space partition. Another binary space partition is created for the camera, and this is the one that causes the problem.

For various positions along the way, the engine basically does some math and figures out what might be visible from certain angles and what will absolutely never be visible. This allows the real time engine to then not have to waste so much time filtering out stuff that isn't going to be drawn. The FOV of the camera, is taken into account here, so in order to have a flexible FOV, you'd have to remove limitations inflicted by the camera and always have to do way more filtering out in real time (or have multiple levels of FOV all providing different occlusion maps.)

For a real demonstration of the occlusion system, take a look at what happens when you go outside of where you were supposed to. Once you clip through the wall, the sector the camera is in doesn't change, so you can see just how limited drawing really is, and how much more, you'd have to do in order to have a wider FOV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyCWJjoWPmg

*Some people call this the "culling" system, but that can be ambiguous since there are lots of types of culling.
I 100% agree with Wallace. If you build your engine from the ground up with dynamic FOV in mind sure it’s “easy” to put a slider in to control it since that was one of your goals from the start.

The games in MCC we’re not built with a dynamic FOV in mind, so they’d have to be retrofitted to do it. There are way better things to do with that dev time on MCC.
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
KBM has very little if any advantage when it comes to Halo. The only thing is probably sniping.

And just out of curiosity, why would anyone not want Halo to have cross play with PC? If the only reason is because it lowers your personal sense of value of your Xbox then that seems pretty selfish honestly. Cross play would absolutely help bolster the games popularity, and at this point in the series we need all the players we can get.
I 100% agree with Wallace. If you build your engine from the ground up with dynamic FOV in mind sure it’s “easy” to put a slider in to control it since that was one of your goals from the start.

The games in MCC we’re not built with a dynamic FOV in mind, so they’d have to be retrofitted to do it. There are way better things to do with that dev time on MCC.
Halo 5: Forge on Windows 10 (based on Halo 5: Guardians on Xbox One) wasn't built with a dynamic FOV in mind but one single person delivered a FOV slider and much more.
It always amuses me when people who have no idea what they’re talking about talk about how easy something is.

Adding a slider for FOV is easy. Altering the camera matrix for the math is easy. DOOM can do it just fine in the idTech 6 engine, which is specifically designed for PC (then ported.)

I’d love to hear how someone who said it’d be easy would address alter the dynamic occlusion map. Are you going to rebake it for a higher FOV and mess with everyone else’s performance (higher draw calls?). Or are you suggesting write something that does all that math in real time? That’s not a minor piece of code, that’s a lot of really heavy math, which is why it’s baked. Or just bake it as it loads and increase the load time tenfold?

you already we see objects pop in and out of view sometimes at the edge of the screen in the Halo Ce campaign. That’s the occlusion map not expecting an HD aspect ratio.
Look if one single person can do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XlriRF5ogA
I hope Microsoft and 343 can do the same or better.
This is not even close to the same thing. A multiplayer map is easy because it's small, performance doesn't get dragged down if occlusion isn't handled well. All this guy did was make a way to manipulate the 4x4 matrix which defines how geometry is projected in the frustum. I would also imagine that the Halo 5 engine has very complex on-the-fly dynamic binary space partitions, which all of the guns and dynamic objects will be in, so you'll never even see issues with dynamic occlusion.

Here is the problem, and it comes down to an understanding of exactly what a level is. Every engine does things differently and there are lots of special things each engines do, but the major components are the same. The level creator creates the mesh, which is the physics object. And an artists overlays some textures and places lights. Then the engine does a LOT of work on it. I'd bet about 90% of the "load time" of any given map is lighting, which obviously is all precalculated, and takes up a lot of space because it's a combination of textures and octree voxels (often called Probes.). One of the other major jobs of the engine is to break the mesh up so that it can make physics calculations easier, for this is uses a binary space partition. Another binary space partition is created for the camera, and this is the one that causes the problem.

For various positions along the way, the engine basically does some math and figures out what might be visible from certain angles and what will absolutely never be visible. This allows the real time engine to then not have to waste so much time filtering out stuff that isn't going to be drawn. The FOV of the camera, is taken into account here, so in order to have a flexible FOV, you'd have to remove limitations inflicted by the camera and always have to do way more filtering out in real time (or have multiple levels of FOV all providing different occlusion maps.)

For a real demonstration of the occlusion system, take a look at what happens when you go outside of where you were supposed to. Once you clip through the wall, the sector the camera is in doesn't change, so you can see just how limited drawing really is, and how much more, you'd have to do in order to have a wider FOV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyCWJjoWPmg

*Some people call this the "culling" system, but that can be ambiguous since there are lots of types of culling.
Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo CE Anniversary and Halo 2 Anniversary already run with wider field of view in split screen coop
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
qtocool wrote:
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.

The number of options to configure in the game is going to go up by at least 6 if this is added. Do you dispute that?

You can say you don’t think it’s a big deal if you want. I’m saying that continuing to pile options into console games for the sake of adding them is not necessarily a smart move.
qtocool wrote:
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.

The number of options to configure in the game is going to go up by at least 6 if this is added. Do you dispute that?

You can say you don’t think it’s a big deal if you want. I’m saying that continuing to pile options into console games for the sake of adding them is not necessarily a smart move.
It's not "for the sake of adding options". It's to guarantee a much better experience. Quite a big difference here. Consoles gamers are not stupid and it's not difficult to understand what FOV is. A FOV slider and a description of what a FOV slider is may improve the gaming experience to millions.
qtocool wrote:
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.

The number of options to configure in the game is going to go up by at least 6 if this is added. Do you dispute that?

You can say you don’t think it’s a big deal if you want. I’m saying that continuing to pile options into console games for the sake of adding them is not necessarily a smart move.
It's not "for the sake of adding options". It's to guarantee a much better experience. Quite a big difference here. Consoles gamers are not stupid and it's not difficult to understand what FOV is. A FOV slider and a description of what a FOV slider is may improve the gaming experience to millions.
It also may not improve the experience for millions. Halo on consoles has existed with a FOV slider for almost 20 years. H3, the most popular game in the series has kne the smallest FOVs in the series and people love it.

I’m really worried that there will no longer be a difference between Xbox and PC. PC gaming has customization options a mile long. Now that Halo is coming to PC, everyone is going to demand the console version also contain their particular favorite option or slider from PC.

If you want PC-level options, play on PC. Keep the console experience simple. Look at what happened to Minecraft when they replaced the dedicated console edition.
qtocool wrote:
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.

The number of options to configure in the game is going to go up by at least 6 if this is added. Do you dispute that?

You can say you don’t think it’s a big deal if you want. I’m saying that continuing to pile options into console games for the sake of adding them is not necessarily a smart move.
It's not "for the sake of adding options". It's to guarantee a much better experience. Quite a big difference here. Consoles gamers are not stupid and it's not difficult to understand what FOV is. A FOV slider and a description of what a FOV slider is may improve the gaming experience to millions.
It also may not improve the experience for millions. Halo on consoles has existed with a FOV slider for almost 20 years. H3, the most popular game in the series has kne the smallest FOVs in the series and people love it.

I’m really worried that there will no longer be a difference between Xbox and PC. PC gaming has customization options a mile long. Now that Halo is coming to PC, everyone is going to demand the console version also contain their particular favorite option or slider from PC.

If you want PC-level options, play on PC. Keep the console experience simple. Look at what happened to Minecraft when they replaced the dedicated console edition.
I don't play Minecraft.
A FOV slider won't make the console experience difficult. PC options make games better, that's why I want them on console too. Maybe a 4 years old won't understand what FOV is but guess what? If a 4 years old can't understand what a FOV slider is he simply doesn't use it. In this case you and the 4 years old won't use a FOV slider but a lot of people will. And everybody will be happy. People love Halo 3 because it's an awesome game. This doesn't mean that me and a lot of other people wouldn't enjoy it more with a wider field of view. Halo 3 was awesome @30FPS back in the days, that doesn't mean 60FPS doesn't make the game feel better. CE was awesome on a cathode ray tube, that doesn't mean we don't need 16:9 support. "We never had a FOV slider in any Halo game on console, you know what? We don't need it on MCC"..." Halo 3 was awesome in 2007 @30FPS, we don't need 60FPS on MCC"..."You know what? CE was awsome in 4:3 back in the days, we don't need 16:9 support"..."CE didn't ship with Xbox Live in 2001, you know what? We don't need CE multiplayer in MCC"... this is the stuff you're doing here. Please stop.
qtocool wrote:
I really just don’t care for Halo becoming a PC game and the Xbox becoming just a cheap gaming PC.

Cross platform play is never really going to work since M&K players have such a gigantic advantage. You’ll just have two different games with sharded populations.

I vote for just leaving consoles as consoles with a standard FOV.
With Phil Spencer being the head of Xbox I saw a change of mentality: the priority is giving the most ways possible to make the gaming on Xbox enjoyable for everyone. And I think 343 should do the same: give all players the most ways possible to enjoy thier Halo games. The only reason why they wouldn't implement a FOV slider is because they think we are too stupid to use it. Maybe you are but I can garantee you that a lot of people aren't and would really appreciate a FOV slider.
No need to insult anyone’s intelligence. Most console games don’t want to fiddle with settings, they want to plug in a game and go.

FOV sliders are PC gaming thing. If you want to play on PC go do that, and leave Halo and console games the way they are.
Buddy your not making a lot of sense tf2(titanfall) doom bf1 payday 2 and a few others all have fov sliders and it didn’t affect the game at all either you simply aren’t smart enough to use the feature or you simply going against what we are saying for the sake of going against it.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.

The number of options to configure in the game is going to go up by at least 6 if this is added. Do you dispute that?

You can say you don’t think it’s a big deal if you want. I’m saying that continuing to pile options into console games for the sake of adding them is not necessarily a smart move.
It's not "for the sake of adding options". It's to guarantee a much better experience. Quite a big difference here. Consoles gamers are not stupid and it's not difficult to understand what FOV is. A FOV slider and a description of what a FOV slider is may improve the gaming experience to millions.
It also may not improve the experience for millions. Halo on consoles has existed with a FOV slider for almost 20 years. H3, the most popular game in the series has kne the smallest FOVs in the series and people love it.

I’m really worried that there will no longer be a difference between Xbox and PC. PC gaming has customization options a mile long. Now that Halo is coming to PC, everyone is going to demand the console version also contain their particular favorite option or slider from PC.

If you want PC-level options, play on PC. Keep the console experience simple. Look at what happened to Minecraft when they replaced the dedicated console edition.
Halo 3 has the worst FoV and people love it ? I don't know one person that enjoyed the FoV in Halo 3, if there's one Halo game that would benefit from a FoV slider it's Halo 3 imo. I think every game should have a FoV slider. As for your PC options comment, why should I have to play on a PC for a FoV slider ? If I want to play Halo on console or PC I should be granted the same configuration options. Thank goodness Microsoft is allowing developers with freedom of choice. I'm looking forward to KB + M support, especially if the likes of the Warhammer 40K use it. I also hope more developers use FoV sliders on console games.
Better have it when it goes to pc or else i won't play because i get motion sickness
I 100% agree with Wallace. If you build your engine from the ground up with dynamic FOV in mind sure it’s “easy” to put a slider in to control it since that was one of your goals from the start.

The games in MCC we’re not built with a dynamic FOV in mind, so they’d have to be retrofitted to do it. There are way better things to do with that dev time on MCC.
Yet , for all the comments about how hard it is and I agree with this sentiment too a point except , 343i are willingly undertaking this very option for PC adaptation , so it would seem it can be done it really comes down to the will and resources .to bring this feature and maybe some others as well .doom and titanfall2 are two fine examples pc games that backward engineered to console that improve the experience for the player.
One of my biggest pet peeves about halo the mcc is the lack of options when it comes to video settings, I love having 4K and hdr with 60 frames per second, but when playing the mcc one of my biggest gripes period is the non implementation of FOV.
I live and breath halo and the fact that my beloved game Serious is coming to pc is amazing, and one of the biggest improvements I see is that the mcc will include on PC an FOV slider. As an Xbox player it make me kind of upset because if I could change one thing about experiencing all of my favorite halo games it would be the FOV. In games like halo 3 I feel very clasturephobic, I even heard some of my friends get motion sickness from very low FOV. All I wish with this new update that includes halo reach is that it comes with more options because of a release on PC and the hype of so many options on there. I’ve seen a lot of tests with FOV on halo reach on the PC and it barely affects performance at all. Which proves that it probably can be done on Xbox as well.
Please listen 343 I really love halo and all I wish is for there to be an FOV slider
<3
tuhin94 wrote:
qtocool wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
qtocool wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
Changing FOV can impact performance, I believe, which is why it might not be included. At least,
that’s the disclaimer that games like Battlefield include in their menus. But it would be a cool feature to have for sure.
No it won’t doom has it
Enjoy.It’s a great feature in Doom (one of my favorite games ever), but it does impact frame rate, especially so on consoles which don’t hold a locked 60fps.
It doesn’t affect it in a noticeable way for me and I max it out on doom
"Noticeable" doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I can't tell the difference between 55 and 60 fps during fast gameplay, for example, but there is a difference between the two.
If you can't notice it, who cares, your splitting hairs to come across correct in a debate. I run a 90 in doom and TF2 and any other game that allows it. it doesn't have a noticeable negative effect on performance of the xbox x
Please don't revive old topics, especially if you have already created one with the same content
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