Sounds like Harris and his bro are true purists.xxcloud7xx wrote:There are people in the CE community such as Harris and his bro that don't like playing the NHE version and prefer playing the original. That being said please keep in mind that the NHE version still requires the original console and disk; therefore, it plays exactly like the original except with subtle changes.
It's your opinion that the changes of the NHE version are "subtle". What you constitute as the appropriate use of the terms "subtle" and "arbitrary" in reference to changes may not be agreed upon by others.
I know I wouldn't agree with your use of the term "subtle" here given the no spread and other features of NHE v1.0, but that's just me. I'd venture a guess and assume that Harris and his bro would vehemently disagree with your use of the term "subtle" here too.
I understand that there's a perspective, with which you share, that believes the NHE version may play a lot closer to the original Xbox version of CE versus how the MCC version compares to the original. I'm sure there are many legit reasons to believe that, but we both can only speculate on the truth of that statement.Quote:The NHE version plays a lot closer to the original version than the current MCC version so [some] people prefer playing the NHE version over the MCC version.
For starters, to even be able to formulate a fair judgement a person would have had to of played the original, NHE, and the MCC versions. Now, I'm not saying that there are not plenty of those people out there, but those who have played, and likely continue to play, the NHE version are, in all honesty, a pretty tiny subgroup of people in comparison to the full size of the Halo community. And part of the reason they exist as a subgroup from the larger community is precisely because it's a collection of people who hold a passionate perspective that likely differs somewhat from the majority. I mean, if everyone, or the vast majority of people, believed that CE (original or NHE versions) were the perfect means to enjoy "Halo" then there would have been little reason to buy, play, or find enjoyment with the following Halo titles beyond graphical enhancements and perhaps a desire to discover how the campaign continued the story.
I would imagine so; especially, within a group that by all means was dedicated to playing CE competitively over newer titles.Quote:The removal of spread from the M6D pistol and unscoped sniper were pretty controversial changes. There was a lot of debate around it.
It seems like even within this subgroup there was plenty of differing perspectives which helped eventually lead to the creation of the current NHE version.
That's according to you; though, I would agree (with you) that none of the other changes seem "as" controversial.Quote:Before the release of the NHE v1.0 the previous NHE version didn't have any fundamental changes to the game that were as controversial as the removal of spread.
I'm sure there was some amount of controversy with regards to everything being worked on. Adding timer scripts and removing certain sounds certainly bring forth some "fundamental" game-play changes too. Hell, removing host advantage is a massive fundamental change, but it also greatly improved the competitiveness of the game so it was deemed acceptable. Same for the other NHE changes too.
I would disagree. I think both positions carry fairly similar merit. You both were advocating for improvement.Quote:While advocating for 343 to make the MCC version resemble the NHE version might create a similar precedent as advocating for 343 to make changes to CE's spawn system I don't think that both positions have similar merit.
The OP was discussing the spawn system in regards to a particular mode (KotH). He was advocating for improvement to that particular mode. You advocate on behalf of the NHE version which would bring about some title-wide changes directed at competitive improvements. Change for the sake of improvement is the similarity.
By all means, do share your thoughts on how to improve CE's spawn system or, better yet, share your thoughts with regards to improving the spawn system for the particular mode (KotH) that the OP was mentioning. I'm sure he'd very much welcome that discussion verses the actual comment you directed toward him.Quote:I acknowledge that CE's spawn system isn't perfect and has flaws. There are various ways to improve CE's spawn system for other player formats outside of 2v2.
I know exactly what you mean, but you're missing your own hypocrisy. It was believed that there were some legitimate issues with the function of the original Xbox version that led to and brought about the NHE version, right?Quote:What I mean when I say that CE's spawn system on MCC doesn't have any real legitimate issues is that the spawn system is functioning as intended because it's functioning the same as it does in the original.
Trying to differentiate the alterations made by the NHE version from the subject of potential spawn changes is ultimately a word contorting game because at the root these two things boil down to the same type of justified logic. A personal desire to see the game improved.
Are you really open to debating the merits? I question that given your original response within this thread.Quote:I'm open to debating the merits of CE's spawn system but I think that it's pretty unrealistic to expect for 343 to go out of their way to prioritize making changes to its spawn system when there's not a big enough demand for it.
It may very well be unrealistic to expect 343i to prioritize adjustments to the spawn system; especially, at this point with all the other work going on within the MCC. But how is 343i even to know that there's a demand if nobody speaks up about it? Worse yet, when someone does they get hostile responses from those with an opposing perspective instead of receiving a constructive discussion.
According to who exactly? Perhaps that’s true of the majority within the passionate community that you're a part of, but they hardly make up the majority of the total MCC player base.Quote:There's a bigger demand for 343 to make CE on MCC resemble the original version or NHE than there is for 343 to make changes to the spawn system.
Anyways, you offer only speculation here of which we both can only offer at this point.
Okay.Quote:I'm aware that arguments are a two-way street and I'm prepared to defend my positions however I'm not going to waste my time responding to someone if I think that the person isn't being charitable to my position.
Postums saying that 343i currently doesn't have any plans to update the spawning system isn't the same thing as saying that they (343i) would never consider it.Quote:I think that the conversation started to become pointless and unproductive when some people still had an unreasonable expectation of CE's spawn system changing despite the fact that a 343 employee already stated that they currently have no plans to update the spawning system for CE.
You never know. Maybe there are plenty of people who (like you) recognize that the spawn system has issues, but don't speak-up for a number of reasons. Perhaps they just don't want to stand-out in contrast to the general groupthink mentality. I happen to think this a major problem that occurs throughout all of the Halo community; especially, on the competitive side.Quote:I'm sure that there are some people in the Halo 1 Hub Discord that are open-minded however I'm not sure how open people will be to the idea of making changes to CE's spawn system.