Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Please remove the TU settings for Reach

OP SamTheWeebo

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SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Original reach was amazing, TU killed it for me. Maybe you guys should learn to pace your shots instead of complain. You're all complaining about rng but I didn't seem to miss because I didnt try and rapid fire the DMR. I loved reach online it was my favourite but hearing they're making it TU instantly killed my enthusiasm.
The original melee was also really good. I love how you have to know when to punch instead of blindly punching away. Adds more punishment to people punching early. Getting used to and loving a game for over a year then having you guys change it fundematelly was a horrible decision and killed it for me.
If 343 are reading please dont include TU reach.
First, TU version of Reach is already confirmed.

Second, bloom and Pre-TU melee (no bleed through) were intrinsically bad for Halo from a competitive perspective. Bloom adds randomness, which is ALWAYS bad. Full stop. Very simple.

The ramification of removing bleed through is more complex but still very significant. Bleed through ensures that if you get the first shot on your enemy, the enemy cant just turn around and melee you to negate the advantage you had (go look up bleed through if you don't know what it is). This is important because if you've been caught off guard (either due to poor awareness, lack off comms, bad positioning, poor understanding of game, etc.) then you should be penalised in some way. You shouldn't just be able to turn around, smack the enemy, and negate the advantage they've created for themselves.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
How come? All I'm saying is I like the way the game was originally designed and I got used to how it worked and I like it. I hit eclipse rank in reach but stopped because of the TU and multi team change. TU playlists are dead in reach as well why would they bring it back
Randomness in a competitive shooter is not a good thing. Neither is an arbitrary slowing down of a genre (arena shooter) that's meant to be super fast-paced by completely unnecessary mechanics such as sprint and bloom, and one that already worked perfectly without them.
It's a mechanic that rewards well paced trigher control and punishes button mashing on a long range weapon. I honestly dont see an issue as its again the way the game was designed. If people didnt like it they shouldn't change the game to fit their views, they should change the way they play to fit the game.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
How come? All I'm saying is I like the way the game was originally designed and I got used to how it worked and I like it. I hit eclipse rank in reach but stopped because of the TU and multi team change. TU playlists are dead in reach as well why would they bring it back
Randomness in a competitive shooter is not a good thing. Neither is an arbitrary slowing down of a genre (arena shooter) that's meant to be super fast-paced by completely unnecessary mechanics such as sprint and bloom, and one that already worked perfectly without them.
It's a mechanic that rewards well paced trigger control and punishes button mashing on a long range weapon.
While that may have been the intended design, that's not what was produced in reality. The bloom was way too significant and the reset speed too slow.

Here are some informative videos discussing the bloom in Reach:
Quote:
I honestly don't see an issue as it's again the way the game was designed.
So games should never receive patches or fixes, even if they're sorely needed, just because that's, "...the way the game was designed"?

I hope you see the fallacy in that logic.
Quote:
If people didn't like it they shouldn't change the game to fit their views, they should change the way they play to fit the game.
If the developers, or the caretakers of the game, determine that their game's player base population is suffering specifically because of poor design decisions they most certainly should take action to remedy it as best as they can via an update; assuming updates are feasibly possible.

I'm sorry, but if they were able to acknowledge the identity of an issue based on the feedback from a majority of their consumers they should feel some obligation to address it; especially, if they wish to continue growing their business and the product demand in the future. To think otherwise is a bit foolhardy.

The question becomes how do they know what the majority desires/thinks? Most developers are actively monitoring their forums and many other community social networks. They seek feedback and an understanding to be able to improve their product while also exercising their creativity to make something new and of their own. Population data is a critical component underlining all the other feedback they're getting. If they wish to be stingy about aspects relating to their product in the face of indisputable negative backlash; well, that's fine, but from a business perspective they're not necessarily doing what's best for the business or product if that feedback is coming from an actual majority and not just a large segment of loud voices.
eLantern wrote:
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
How come? All I'm saying is I like the way the game was originally designed and I got used to how it worked and I like it. I hit eclipse rank in reach but stopped because of the TU and multi team change. TU playlists are dead in reach as well why would they bring it back
Randomness in a competitive shooter is not a good thing. Neither is an arbitrary slowing down of a genre (arena shooter) that's meant to be super fast-paced by completely unnecessary mechanics such as sprint and bloom, and one that already worked perfectly without them.
It's a mechanic that rewards well paced trigger control and punishes button mashing on a long range weapon.
While that may have been the intended design, that's not what was produced in reality. The bloom was way too significant and the reset speed too slow.

Here are some informative videos discussing the bloom in Reach:
Quote:
I honestly don't see an issue as it's again the way the game was designed.
So game's should never receive patches or fixes, even if they're sorely needed, just because that's, "...the way the game was designed"?

I hope you see the fallacy in that logic.
Quote:
If people didn't like it they shouldn't change the game to fit their views, they should change the way they play to fit the game.
If the developers, or the caretakers of the game, determine that their game's player base population is suffering specifically because of poor design decisions they most certainly should take action to remedy it as best as they can via an update; assuming updates are feasibly possible.

I'm sorry, but if they were able to acknowledge the identity of an issue based on the feedback from a majority of their consumers they should feel some obligation to address it; especially, if they wish to continue growing their business and the product demand in the future. To think otherwise is a bit foolhardy.

The question becomes how do they know what the majority desires/thinks? Most developers are actively monitoring their forums and many other community social networks. They seek feedback and an understanding to be able to improve their product while also exercising their creativity to make something new and of their own. Population data is a critical component underlining all the other feedback they're getting. If they wish to be stingy about aspects relating to their product in the face of indisputable negative backlash; well, that's fine, but from a business perspective they're not necessarily doing what's best for the business or product.
To add yet again to this. Halo 2 and 3 had TUs as well. This not something new to Reach.
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Agreed.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Halo isn't dead. Like I said the non tu team slayer in halo reach still has a population to this day. Also the MCC has all the titles that don't have sprint, armor abilities, bloom etc. So there is no need to remove or alter them from the Halo Reach MP. The playstyle that made halo is right there in another tab. Don't need to force it on all the other halo games in the collection. Each game in the collection should be different and play differently. If you don't want to play halo reach you don't have to, but the option shouldn't be taken from others.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Halo isn't dead. Like I said the non tu team slayer in halo reach still has a population to this day. Also the MCC has all the titles that don't have sprint, armor abilities, bloom etc. So there is no need to remove or alter them from the Halo Reach MP. The playstyle that made halo is right there in another tab. Don't need to force it on all the other halo games in the collection. Each game in the collection should be different and play differently. If you don't want to play halo reach you don't have to, but the option shouldn't be taken from others.
The option to take away original Reach should and is being taken away whether you like it or not. Sprint, Armour abilities, bloom, etc. turned the game into to something that could no longer be recognised as Halo. The people wanted Halo, Bungie gave the people something else, and the game died as a result. Releasing Reach in its TU form is them trying to return back to its roots, which is what the people have been saying they should do for years.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Halo isn't dead. Like I said the non tu team slayer in halo reach still has a population to this day. Also the MCC has all the titles that don't have sprint, armor abilities, bloom etc. So there is no need to remove or alter them from the Halo Reach MP. The playstyle that made halo is right there in another tab. Don't need to force it on all the other halo games in the collection. Each game in the collection should be different and play differently. If you don't want to play halo reach you don't have to, but the option shouldn't be taken from others.
The option to take away original Reach should and is being taken away whether you like it or not. Sprint, Armour abilities, bloom, etc. turned the game into to something that could no longer be recognised as Halo. The people wanted Halo, Bungie gave the people something else, and the game died as a result. Releasing Reach in its TU form is them trying to return back to its roots, which is what the people have been saying they should do for years.
Why would Reach need to "return to the roots" when the "roots" is literally one tab over? Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 all right there. Plenty of opportunity to experience Halo's "roots" while leaving Reach as it is. Oh while we are at it we should remove Halo 3's BR spread right? Because random is bad right? That will bring Halo 3 back closer to it's Halo 2 and Halo CE "roots". Doesn't matter that the one small change to the Halo 3 BR would change the way the game is played and totally mess up the intended weapon balance, it would make things less random and more skill based which is good no matter what right? As for Halo Reach's population, It didn't die until the TU got implemented. The way 343 handled Halo Reach was a joke. There was Vanilla, MLG, TU, and Anniversary each "version" of Halo Reach played significantly differently. It wasn't like you could just hop from playlist to playlist and have different game types with the same underlying gameplay, each one of these settings was like a totally different game. There was no consistency. That's what ended up killing the population. That being said Vanilla Reach should be what we get because there is consistency between the campaign and the multiplayer, and it's the gameplay that Halo Reach is known for. Those other game styles were all trying to grab the attention of a specific population and that is not needed anymore. Reach should play like Reach.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
<p></p>
The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Halo isn't dead. Like I said the non tu team slayer in halo reach still has a population to this day. Also the MCC has all the titles that don't have sprint, armor abilities, bloom etc. So there is no need to remove or alter them from the Halo Reach MP. The playstyle that made halo is right there in another tab. Don't need to force it on all the other halo games in the collection. Each game in the collection should be different and play differently. If you don't want to play halo reach you don't have to, but the option shouldn't be taken from others.
The option to take away original Reach should and is being taken away whether you like it or not. Sprint, Armour abilities, bloom, etc. turned the game into to something that could no longer be recognised as Halo. The people wanted Halo, Bungie gave the people something else, and the game died as a result. Releasing Reach in its TU form is them trying to return back to its roots, which is what the people have been saying they should do for years.
Why would Reach need to "return to the roots" when the "roots" is literally one tab over? Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 all right there. Plenty of opportunity to experience Halo's "roots" while leaving Reach as it is. Oh while we are at it we should remove Halo 3's BR spread right? Because random is bad right? That will bring Halo 3 back closer to it's Halo 2 and Halo CE "roots". Doesn't matter that the one small change to the Halo 3 BR would change the way the game is played and totally mess up the intended weapon balance, it would make things less random and more skill based which is good no matter what right? As for Halo Reach's population, It didn't die until the TU got implemented. The way 343 handled Halo Reach was a joke. There was Vanilla, MLG, TU, and Anniversary each "version" of Halo Reach played significantly differently. It wasn't like you could just hop from playlist to playlist and have different game types with the same underlying gameplay, each one of these settings was like a totally different game. There was no consistency. That's what ended up killing the population. That being said Vanilla Reach should be what we get because there is consistency between the campaign and the multiplayer, and it's the gameplay that Halo Reach is known for. Those other game styles were all trying to grab the attention of a specific population and that is not needed anymore. Reach should play like Reach.
Exactly. Every game should be played as it is, with it flaws and advantages. What's the point of adjusting it to be more similar to the last one when you can just play that version? The only scenary where that should be applied is when talking about a remaster such as Halo 2 Anniversary, which must be something that resembles the original game. Reach is not a remaster nor an improvement over Halo 3, 2 or CE; it's just another game that catters to another population and flavours, due to different times and competitors. No one would agree to remove H3 BR spread or to nerf the rest of the sandbox just to make its gameplay more Halo 2 like, as you said. If you're going to change the normal functionality of something, do it because it improves its performance, not because it's more similar to another X experience.

In fact, the TU implementation in Team Slayer made it die really quickly, unlike Vanilla Slayer, a playlist that has survived until now. The game turned to an inconsistent mix of gametypes that divided the community. Essentially, the Needle Rifle turned out to be too useful in long range combat and the initial Magnum balance was removed. However, if the majority here seems to be in favour of TU settings, those will be implemented no matter what the opinion of the minority is; just like BR starts and Auto starts. Hopefully options will be given in the future, along with datacenter selection, search speed and skill parameters, as well as a way to skip repeated maps such as vote or veto.
Reach was never dead before or after the TU settings were implemented idk where that assumption is coming from but I remember the population always being fairly large during Reach's life before the next Halo game. Was never a big fan of the TU settings outside of the armor lock change which I'm indifferent about and will be spending majority of my time in invasion because it retains the OG Reach settings. Bloom isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be just pace your shots.
Reach was never dead before or after the TU settings were implemented idk where that assumption is coming from but I remember the population always being fairly large during Reach's life before the next Halo game. Was never a big fan of the TU settings outside of the armor lock change which I'm indifferent about and will be spending majority of my time in invasion because it retains the OG Reach settings. Bloom isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be just pace your shots.
The issue is that people seem to think that Bloom is related to randomness, but it can be mastered as you only have to aim with the center of the reticle, along with a proper pacing. It's not like the Halo 3 BR random spread where you essentially don't have any control over it, rather than trying to lead inconsistent and unpredictable bullets paths. You could spam your shots in the past, but it was a worse situation as you didn't have any kind of penalty to reduce its efectiveness, so it was easier to hit your target mindlessly.

As for the Reach death, it's just an assumption due to the big difference in population between the Vanilla Slayer and the TU version.
Reach was never dead before or after the TU settings were implemented idk where that assumption is coming from but I remember the population always being fairly large during Reach's life before the next Halo game. Was never a big fan of the TU settings outside of the armor lock change which I'm indifferent about and will be spending majority of my time in invasion because it retains the OG Reach settings. Bloom isn't nearly as bad as people are making it out to be just pace your shots.
The issue is that people seem to think that Bloom is related to randomness, but it can be mastered as you only have to aim with the center of the reticle, along with a proper pacing. You could spam your shots in the past, but it was a worse situation as you didn't have any kind of penalty to reduce it, so it was easier to hit your target mindlessly.

As for the Reach death, it's just an assumption due to the big difference in population between the Vanilla Slayer and the TU version.
All I know is bloom was never an issue, at least for me personally it never was a problem, and it's a real shame that TU is being added turning the DMR into a weaker sniper and the Needle Rifle into a needler with range. Takes away from the original skill of needing to master a weapons bloom to perform well and just dumbs it down into a game of who can spam click the head better.
Too many comments to quote so I'll just make my point. DMR bloom and BR spread both attempted to achieve the same thing - to cap their effectiveness at long ranges. Both succeeded, but with the bloom there were (perhaps unintended) significant consequences on short to mid range engagements. While the BR spread of Halo 2/3 had little impact on the outcome of short/medium range engagements (if you aimed at the body), the randomness of bloom had significant impacts on battles at this range. Any good player could land a 4 shot in Halo 2/3 at close/medium range 100% of the time if their aim was good enough. You needn't luck involved.

With bloom, the outcome of any given close range duel could come down to luck. While there are several examples I could give, the obvious and most frustrating example is the case where a player has been caught off guard and have been shot from behind from close range, subsequently that player turns around and spams his shots while the other player paces them. The spammer, out of sheer luck could very easily win the duel. If you spend most of your time in invasion or playing larger maps then this aspect of bloom will be less apparent, but as someone who almost exclusively played MLG settings, which is played on small maps, it was painfully obvious.

For the record, I still think randomness is bad, but the randomness of BR spread had so little impact on gameplay that it was worth making the trade for a balanced primary weapon.
While the BR spread of Halo 2/3 had little impact on the outcome of short/medium range engagements (if you aimed at the body)...
To clarify, the Halo 2 BR's bullet spread was so small that it was essentially negligible after its Title Update. It was basically a cadenced laser regardless to range; especially, being a hit-scan weapon. The classic Halo 2 BR did however have a range cap where its bullet damage simply ended.

Halo 3's BR did possess clear bullet spread thanks to random horizontal spread paired with a vertical recoil; plus, it was a projectile based weapon with slow traveling bullets. This had quit the impact on mid-range engagements and it's why many people weren't happy with the change from Halo 2.
To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint...
Disagree. Halo 5's Sprint mechanic is an excellent example of it being well implemented into the franchise.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
But having different mechanics is not a bad thing...
I never claimed that having different mechanics outright was a "bad" thing. But, in particular having high levels of randomness in the gun-play of a competitive FPS title was not a smart change.

Personally, I liked some of the Armor Ability concepts. Namely, the ones related to player mobility like Sprint, Evade, & Jet Pack. I just thought they weren't ideally implemented into the game, but it was a start. I also appreciated the concept of the Hologram and the strategic trickery it could introduce to the game's combat, but I always felt it would have been better off being treated as a Deployable Equipment item (aka 1-time use) instead.

I however loathed Armor Lock as it directly impeded gun-play by causing engagements to basically halt mid-battle while the protected freeze animation played itself out. I was always left with a feeling of wasting my time in a game that was stupid enough to introduce a mechanic like that. It literally killed my enjoyment with the game and helped drive me to spend more time with other games instead or to spend a majority of my time in Forge and custom matches where it could be prevented.

I was also not a fan of the Drop Shield nor Active Camo abilities either. I fail to see how turning 1-time use items in previous titles into constantly re-usable abilities with fairly short cool-downs was beneficial to the game-play. The benefits these abilities provided were well managed in past titles by having their availability limited due to pick-up locations, re-spawn timers, and personal inventory space. That all went out the proverbial window by making them constantly reusable and an option anyone could choose. Thankfully, their impact wasn't quite as grievous toward game-play as Armor Lock; particularly, pre-TU Armor Lock.
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...Reach being different to Halo 3 was a good thing...
In ways, sure.
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...and Halo 3 pros crying because they aren't as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things.
That's disingenuous. I don't know any Pro who complained simply because they felt they weren't as "good". That's just not what they were complaining about. They were rightfully complaining about the amount of randomness that was being inserted into the gun-play which directly and greatly reduced the inherent skill-gap between players. And from a competitive skill-based perspective they were absolutely right to do so.

They also complained about abilities. And while I understood many of the reasons for why, I did feel like some of the complaints were overblown or simply tied to close-minded nostalgic perspectives. I still think the Evade ability would have been an interesting choice for competitive play.
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The TU made reach more like Halo 3.
Not sure I really agree with that other than to say Reach's gun-play became much improved after the TU. So, if we agree that Halo 3's gun-play was better than pre-TU Reach's then I guess I would agree.
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But Reach isn't Halo 3.
Sure wasn't. But, that's not saying much considering no Halo title was a clone of the previous Halo title. The closest clones we have are Combat Evolved and Halo 2 Anniversary editions in relation to their classic editions, but there was specific intent to provide a sense of duplication in those cases verse truly innovate while moving the franchise forward.

Probably the biggest departure from past Halo titles with Reach, and something I took a lot of issue with in playlist modes other than Invasion, was allowing for unequal starts by way of loadout selection choices. In my opinion, a vital component of Halo's traditional multiplayer relates to ensuring equal starts and battling for upgrades and options on the battlefield not picking different abilities and loadouts pre-match.
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Look I get how people could like the [TU] change but I honestly didn't.
Fair enough.
Has to be TU Reach.
SKILLZ9096 wrote:
Fair enough, games do change when people complain. But having different mechanics is not a bad thing, reach being different to 3 was a good thi g and halo 3 pros crying because they arent as good as they were on halo 3 shouldn't change things. the tu made reach more like halo 3. But reach isnt halo 3.
Using feedback is good but the result was dead tu playlists where the standard reach game is more popular. They changed it and the playlist died with it.
Look I get how people could like the change but I honestly didnt. Played to about 60k plus online multiplayer kills to eclipse rank, I love all ball's and reach was my fav but the change did make me stop playing and I'm not the only one. And it's the 1st time something in game made me stop playing halo.
The game was dead long before TU. The reason Reach died is because it diverged from what Halo traditionally was and what made it successful in the first place. Sprint, bloom, armour abilities changed the game entirely, to the point where the game felt more like CoD with shields than it felt like Halo. Additionally, other mechanics such as bleed through, which were present in previous games, were for some reason removed in Reach.

You said you enjoyed pre-TU Reach. Statistics tell us, sorry to say, that you are in the minority. Reach was a huge step in the wrong direction and the beginning of the end for the franchise. That's why every subsequent Halo has lost popularity and is now at its lowest point in history. Unfortunately, 343 are in an impossible situation. To make Halo great again they would need to remove sprint and most of the other unnecessary mechanics which increase randomness, yet chronologically it would make zero sense for them to do so. Having sprint in some games but not others would look ridiculous, but at the same time that's exactly what they have to do.
What statistics? The only playlist that has options for people to chose between TU and Vanilla settings shows that people prefer the Vanilla settings. The TU slayer playlist was empty almost from the day it was released. The normal slayer still has a playable population to this day.
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The statistic that Halo is now dead. The population at large enjoyed Halo when it didn't have sprint, armour abilities in general, bloom, etc. Halo 2 and 3 had thriving communities years after their initial release. The communities in Reach and all subsequent titles died very quickly.
Halo isn't dead. Like I said the non tu team slayer in halo reach still has a population to this day. Also the MCC has all the titles that don't have sprint, armor abilities, bloom etc. So there is no need to remove or alter them from the Halo Reach MP. The playstyle that made halo is right there in another tab. Don't need to force it on all the other halo games in the collection. Each game in the collection should be different and play differently. If you don't want to play halo reach you don't have to, but the option shouldn't be taken from others.
Now how do you think the population would be if the TU option was first for slayer? The numbers would be reversed. Even in other shooters, the first game mode option is always the most populated.
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