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Read This if you're frustrated with MCC

OP Tyrael

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NNMS MXMS wrote:
It had as much effect on me as pointing me to a video about how hard it is to make cars when my Envoy breaks down for the 7th time. Explaining how hard it is to make good movies does not change my opinion of Waterworld, nor my dissatisfaction with having actually paid theater admission to watch it.

All that matters is:

1. What the devs promised the consumers; and,
2. What the devs delivered to consumers

It's the dev's responsibility to make sure the promises are commensurate with the difficulty of making the product. The read is interesting to an extent, but almost superficially true. Almost everything looks easy until you actually do it.

I could blow most people's minds with how complex and difficult making certain steel components are, but the complexity of the development and production does not change the expectations of our customers that the products we deliver will function as we promised in terms of returns, scrap, and fines. If they do not, we take the financial penalty for failing to deliver on our promises. Why should the video game industry be any different?
im guessing you completely ignored the whole microsoft thing
Tyrael wrote:
AnonomissX wrote:
Tyrael wrote:
At this point anyone defending this game is someone to ignore at that moment.


I'm not defending the game, people just dont understand the situation when they think they do. the game definately has faults, but all people want to do is place blame, thats what we do best.


Tough cookies. I'm not a coworker I am a full retail adult paying customer. I understand creating video games is hard work. Getting the MCC ready is hard work. But do not take my money under the false pretense that the game is in a working as intended state. To release in even the CURRENT state feels like borderline fraud.

You're still not understanding that it is not 343's choice to release a game that doesnt completely work, they have to hand over the game to the publisher when the publisher wants it, not when its ready. It isnt right to release a game that doesnt completely work, but they really didnt have a choice, and apparently nobody on the forums can see that, they just want to point fingers. And I'm really tired of people using the thought of criminal acts (fraud, false advertising, etc.), these are for people who believe they are entitled, when in reality, they are not.
dude give up. these forums have become a cancerous, aids ridden tumor and will remain so until mcc is perfect. and then when halo 5 comes out, since 343 made it and no one is willing to give them props where they deserve, the forums will become a plague again. i dont know why i come on here anymore. it is just a bunch of inconsiderate -Yoinks!- who don't understand the situation at all
couldn't have said it better myself. i just wanted to add to the car thing. another thing people ignore in that ignorant -Yoink- comparison is the fact that cars can cost tens of thousand of dollars while a video game costs 60
Some people don't have $60 to waste on a game that is broken lol. There are plenty of people who are poor and buy food, housing needs, and pay bills. So when they do get a little extra money to actually get something they want, and they get this, it should work cause i'd be pretty pissed off too if I could rarely buy a game and it happened to not work when I got it. Cause then you just wasted that little gift of having extra money to buy something to entertain you after working so hard to get the few extra dollars to get it. unfinished product= wasted money. Price doesn't matter, you don't just half--Yoinked!- something and then sell it like that. The car analogy makes sense. When people go to buy a car, it needs to be in working function, not have a transmission that dies, an engine that leaks or a heater and air conditioner not working. When you buy a car, you expect it to be functioning PROPERLY! That's the point of it, price means nothing. By your saying, it doesn't matter if something is broke so long as it's cheap. Makes no sense.
Tyrael wrote:
AnonomissX wrote:
Tyrael wrote:
At this point anyone defending this game is someone to ignore at that moment.


I'm not defending the game, people just dont understand the situation when they think they do. the game definately has faults, but all people want to do is place blame, thats what we do best.


Tough cookies. I'm not a coworker I am a full retail adult paying customer. I understand creating video games is hard work. Getting the MCC ready is hard work. But do not take my money under the false pretense that the game is in a working as intended state. To release in even the CURRENT state feels like borderline fraud.


You're still not understanding that it is not 343's choice to release a game that doesnt completely work, they have to hand over the game to the publisher when the publisher wants it, not when its ready. It isnt right to release a game that doesnt completely work, but they really didnt have a choice, and apparently nobody on the forums can see that, they just want to point fingers. And I'm really tired of people using the thought of criminal acts (fraud, false advertising, etc.), these are for people who believe they are entitled, when in reality, they are not.

dude give up. these forums have become a cancerous, aids ridden tumor and will remain so until mcc is perfect. and then when halo 5 comes out, since 343 made it and no one is willing to give them props where they deserve, the forums will become a plague again. i dont know why i come on here anymore. it is just a bunch of inconsiderate -Yoinks!- who don't understand the situation at all
Tell me, what props do you give them if I may ask? MCC is where they messed up big time. I know people say Halo 4 also, I don't count it as just because you dislike a game is not a reason to hate a company, if the game was in the state of MCC or close, then they'd have reason to bash 343I for Halo 4. MCC is the only reason to really bash 343I with it in an unfit state. Never sell unfinished products, sure it's a big and tedious project, but if you can't do it by the allotted time you picked, don't do it. Especially never sell it in a broken state.
To the original post, thank you very much. It's crazy that people are even still complaining or even still talking about it lol but i guess people don't get it. It's more on Microsoft than 343. According to the post, 343 doesn't have a say on when it's actually released. Meaning, the difficulty level in porting 4 games in one, actually IS VERY RELEVANT to the situation, being that they didn't have enough time to do what THEY wanted to do. Which is why bashing 343 is pointless cause they whole-heartedly want a great game like we do. But it's like, if the company Toyota gives their employees 3 hours to make a car, and the car comes out with recalled features and is a horrible make, is it the workers fault? Who tried their butts off to make a fully functional car? NO. And when they get all the heat for it, they feel terrible about it. It's the same. If it was Microsoft's call to release it on the anniversary of H2, and Microsoft's call to not postpone it, and their call for pretty much everything else, then why are people mad at 343i? On the relevancy of difficulty of porting the 4 games, its a different story if Toyota gave their employees 2 hours to go get a car wash. That's easy stuff. so if by 2 hours, the car is still dirty, THEN FUDGE YEAH, be upset at the employees who couldn't do their job. So yeah, the difficulty in making this game is VERY relevant to how the game released cause if it were easier to put together, then maybe in the time frame they had, it would be working. Is this not understood by people???? So no, people like me aren't "defending" or "apologizing" for 343i whatsoever. Just trying to say that raging over it will not solve things, especially when upset at the wrong people.
Another smasrt-as.s. Dude, stop having so simply look on things. For ppl like you this thread still lives. Ppl, who make Halo worst than it is...
Tyrael wrote:
AnonomissX wrote:
Tyrael wrote:
At this point anyone defending this game is someone to ignore at that moment.


I'm not defending the game, people just dont understand the situation when they think they do. the game definately has faults, but all people want to do is place blame, thats what we do best.


Tough cookies. I'm not a coworker I am a full retail adult paying customer. I understand creating video games is hard work. Getting the MCC ready is hard work. But do not take my money under the false pretense that the game is in a working as intended state. To release in even the CURRENT state feels like borderline fraud.


You're still not understanding that it is not 343's choice to release a game that doesnt completely work, they have to hand over the game to the publisher when the publisher wants it, not when its ready. It isnt right to release a game that doesnt completely work, but they really didnt have a choice, and apparently nobody on the forums can see that, they just want to point fingers. And I'm really tired of people using the thought of criminal acts (fraud, false advertising, etc.), these are for people who believe they are entitled, when in reality, they are not.


dude give up. these forums have become a cancerous, aids ridden tumor and will remain so until mcc is perfect. and then when halo 5 comes out, since 343 made it and no one is willing to give them props where they deserve, the forums will become a plague again. i dont know why i come on here anymore. it is just a bunch of inconsiderate -Yoinks!- who don't understand the situation at all

Tell me, what props do you give them if I may ask? MCC is where they messed up big time. I know people say Halo 4 also, I don't count it as just because you dislike a game is not a reason to hate a company, if the game was in the state of MCC or close, then they'd have reason to bash 343I for Halo 4. MCC is the only reason to really bash 343I with it in an unfit state. Never sell unfinished products, sure it's a big and tedious project, but if you can't do it by the allotted time you picked, don't do it. Especially never sell it in a broken state.
i give them props for halo4's campaign, their dedication to halo, the fact that halo 5 looks great, the fact that they obviously care more about the expanded universe than bungie did. i give them props for at least attempting a project of this scale( they didn't need to do mcc. they would have made the same amount of money with H2A). i give them props for sticking through it, despite how -Yoink- the fans have been acting toward them.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
It had as much effect on me as pointing me to a video about how hard it is to make cars when my Envoy breaks down for the 7th time. Explaining how hard it is to make good movies does not change my opinion of Waterworld, nor my dissatisfaction with having actually paid theater admission to watch it.

All that matters is:

1. What the devs promised the consumers; and,
2. What the devs delivered to consumers

It's the dev's responsibility to make sure the promises are commensurate with the difficulty of making the product. The read is interesting to an extent, but almost superficially true. Almost everything looks easy until you actually do it.

I could blow most people's minds with how complex and difficult making certain steel components are, but the complexity of the development and production does not change the expectations of our customers that the products we deliver will function as we promised in terms of returns, scrap, and fines. If they do not, we take the financial penalty for failing to deliver on our promises. Why should the video game industry be any different?

im guessing you completely ignored the whole microsoft thing
Lucky for you, guessing is not required. You may simply page back and read my posts. It must be your birthday or something.
Blinky 909 wrote:
I'm just gonna leave this here...
bb
This will probably be my last post since it looks like its a lost cause at this point.

MCC is not as broken as is claimed in its current state. Yes it has problems but you can play it effectively, for the most part, and it will get completely fixed eventually, hopefully with this next update.

Wishing hateful things upon others is not ok for any reason, and what I intended with this thread was to give those people a reason to not be as angry as they are.

Everyone has the right to be angry and complain, but it doesnt make it right to wish peoples livelihoods destroyed and reduced to shambles.

Half of the games purchase was for something some you dont care about playing. You can argue that you bought it for just the multiplayer or campaign, but that doesnt change the fact that you wasted half of the purchase price.

Everything I have said about how difficult it is porting games and the small updates is fact. They have come from multiple devs that I play with on xbox, they dont go into why because I dont understand, but multiple devs have said the same thing from different, unlrelated places.

Turning the Halo community into what it is currently will not do anything to make Halo better. I understand that you are mad and want to complain, but if it stays as radical as it is, MCC wont be the only thing that will cause the community numbers to dwindle.

And if the community dwindles low enough to kill off Halo, what would the point of all of this really be? Nothing would be gained by anyone and everyone would be at a loss.

Everybody here wants a better halo, no matter how they choose to go about it. So calling eachother names is counterproductive and we really should be working together to make halo better.

Calling people apologists doesn't really make sense, especially for this thread, none of "us" are saying 343 is sorry and we should all be friends, we're trying to make these forums a more freindly place and bring the facts to light.

Im an accounting major, so forgive me if what i have posted in the thread seemed to have flip flopped or did not make sense. lol.
Tyrael wrote:


MCC is not as broken as is claimed in its current state. Yes it has problems but you can play it effectively, for the most part, and it will get completely fixed eventually, hopefully with this next update.

Half of the games purchase was for something some you dont care about playing. You can argue that you bought it for just the multiplayer or campaign, but that doesnt change the fact that you wasted half of the purchase price.
1st everyone has different experiences with their game. Some have them actually broken to where it's unplayable, some have it to where it works half the time, some have it to where it works fairly decent most of the time. Just cause you have yours working decently doesn't mean it's not broken for the majority of the unhappy people. Seriously, even 343I has admitted how sorry they are for giving us this buggy *** **** and said they themselves they would be mad if they got this. Some of the threats by the community is too much yea, but people voicing their displeasure is what gets action done whether people like to hear it or not.

2nd is have you ever played Cod? people buy that game literally for the multiplayer. they're not wasting half their money, they're getting exactly what they wanted to play it on. Same with the Halo fan base. Some want it only for the campaign, some like me do it for both the campaign and multiplayer, and then some get it just for the multiplayer. There are other games where people ignore the campaign and only want multiplayer. Again, it's not wasting your money ignoring the campaign if you're getting exactly what you wanted out of a game with the multiplayer. So FACT is we don't waste our money so long as we're happy with what we got out of what we wanted. Can we get that out of this MCC? **** no. Halo has become very popular by the multiplayer (story is good too). I noticed how you said they made this specifically for the campaign, not the multiplayer. Do YOU KNOW how many people got this just for the multiplayer?! quite a large percent of the fan base did. Halo 2-3 servers were down and MCC fills in for that. CE has an online multiplayer for the first time also which people wanted to try. So if the multiplayer is broke you don't tell them to "go play Cod or something else!". that's a no no. You don't tell people what they can and cannot play, you fix the issue and then they will be happy again. If you don't fix it then the population could care less about the next game in the series that will be released later on. You're crazy If you don't think the launch of this game won't effect Halo 5's sales if they don't fix this. Heck It's probably to late for some, some have already said it's set in stone they're done with Halo because of MCC launch. If people are saying this! that should tell you something. They ****** up!
Tyrael wrote:
This will probably be my last post since it looks like its a lost cause at this point.

MCC is not as broken as is claimed in its current state. Yes it has problems but you can play it effectively, for the most part, and it will get completely fixed eventually, hopefully with this next update.

Wishing hateful things upon others is not ok for any reason, and what I intended with this thread was to give those people a reason to not be as angry as they are.

Everyone has the right to be angry and complain, but it doesnt make it right to wish peoples livelihoods destroyed and reduced to shambles.

Half of the games purchase was for something some you dont care about playing. You can argue that you bought it for just the multiplayer or campaign, but that doesnt change the fact that you wasted half of the purchase price.

Everything I have said about how difficult it is porting games and the small updates is fact. They have come from multiple devs that I play with on xbox, they dont go into why because I dont understand, but multiple devs have said the same thing from different, unlrelated places.

Turning the Halo community into what it is currently will not do anything to make Halo better. I understand that you are mad and want to complain, but if it stays as radical as it is, MCC wont be the only thing that will cause the community numbers to dwindle.

And if the community dwindles low enough to kill off Halo, what would the point of all of this really be? Nothing would be gained by anyone and everyone would be at a loss.

Everybody here wants a better halo, no matter how they choose to go about it. So calling eachother names is counterproductive and we really should be working together to make halo better.

Calling people apologists doesn't really make sense, especially for this thread, none of "us" are saying 343 is sorry and we should all be friends, we're trying to make these forums a more freindly place and bring the facts to light.

Im an accounting major, so forgive me if what i have posted in the thread seemed to have flip flopped or did not make sense. lol.
It the internet dude. People are not going to be nice all the time, beside people hated the change so it should not be a big deal to you. It the fact they spend good money to played all there fav game. Also the "we should al be friends" is not going to work, so yea. :I
Tyrael wrote:
AnonomissX wrote:
Tyrael wrote:
At this point anyone defending this game is someone to ignore at that moment.


I'm not defending the game, people just dont understand the situation when they think they do. the game definately has faults, but all people want to do is place blame, thats what we do best.


Tough cookies. I'm not a coworker I am a full retail adult paying customer. I understand creating video games is hard work. Getting the MCC ready is hard work. But do not take my money under the false pretense that the game is in a working as intended state. To release in even the CURRENT state feels like borderline fraud.


You're still not understanding that it is not 343's choice to release a game that doesnt completely work, they have to hand over the game to the publisher when the publisher wants it, not when its ready. It isnt right to release a game that doesnt completely work, but they really didnt have a choice, and apparently nobody on the forums can see that, they just want to point fingers. And I'm really tired of people using the thought of criminal acts (fraud, false advertising, etc.), these are for people who believe they are entitled, when in reality, they are not.


dude give up. these forums have become a cancerous, aids ridden tumor and will remain so until mcc is perfect. and then when halo 5 comes out, since 343 made it and no one is willing to give them props where they deserve, the forums will become a plague again. i dont know why i come on here anymore. it is just a bunch of inconsiderate -Yoinks!- who don't understand the situation at all


Tell me, what props do you give them if I may ask? MCC is where they messed up big time. I know people say Halo 4 also, I don't count it as just because you dislike a game is not a reason to hate a company, if the game was in the state of MCC or close, then they'd have reason to bash 343I for Halo 4. MCC is the only reason to really bash 343I with it in an unfit state. Never sell unfinished products, sure it's a big and tedious project, but if you can't do it by the allotted time you picked, don't do it. Especially never sell it in a broken state.

i give them props for halo4's campaign, their dedication to halo, the fact that halo 5 looks great, the fact that they obviously care more about the expanded universe than bungie did. i give them props for at least attempting a project of this scale( they didn't need to do mcc. they would have made the same amount of money with H2A). i give them props for sticking through it, despite how -Yoink- the fans have been acting toward them.
They don't get props for sticking through it... they are required to stick through it.
Do you give Starbucks props when they give you a coffee you purchased? No. Why would you?
We paid for a working MCC... now they're REQUIRED to make it work.
Do you give IKEA props for delivering your couch, even though you paid them to do it? Now, imagine their same-day delivery arrived 9 days late. Still giving props? 'It's so nice of them to deliver this, even though I paid for same-day shipping. The fact that they still delivered it at all is lovely... what great service! Will buy again!'
Its a good read Berserk
All of that is some true
No offense OP but your preaching to nothing. The MCC is life or death to some people. I agree with you on everypoint that Microsoft is primarly to blame for this. If 343 was independent like Bungie was at the time then the game would have been likely polished more then it is. Yes MCC was directed out at to different companies to have it ported to the Xbox One, it wasn't just 343, but OP no matter how much you drive it into people's heads, the amount of hate for 343 is going to override that. You're posting to a lost cause. The MCC forums are a waste of time and I've since no longer created any threads here. All people know is that 343 ruined MCC, and they won't listen to anything...or anyone except their own bandwagon. I don't even understand why 343 still has this forum open to be honest.
Tyrael wrote:
READ ME

To the people who say that that article has no relevence to MCC, it has as much relevence as a completely new IP. MCC is a bigger challenge than any standalone game, doesnt matter if theres no animating or modeling or storyboarding or any of that, porting 4 games is much, much more difficult to do. Regardless of what you think is true, this is fact. that article explains how difficult making a game from scratch can be, and in comparison MCC is much, much more difficult of a project. Before you post your bashful, ignorant, self entitled bull crap that I know you will, read every single post and then make your own, the amount of redundancy is astounding and alot of good points are made for both sides, whether I agree with them or not. If youre gonna say something thats been said (probably 50 times or so by now) then dont post, you will be wasting your time.

Porting games is much harder than making a game from scratch, this is a fact, porting 4 games in the time microsoft gave them is borderline impossible, that is a fact. this isnt a "making games is hard" situation, this is finding a needle in a haystack, then doing a surgery with only that needle without it being sterilized.

343 is NOT Microsoft, yes 343 is owned by Microsoft, but the people at Microsoft control all of the business decisions, not the people at 343. Everyone at 343 wants to make great Halo games and they want to make them work, but with corporate BS, Microsoft will make that much harder, to the degree of impossibility, case in point with MCC. All 343 has is creative control, beyond that its all Microsoft.

I've seen a decent amount of posts talking about "I would have been fine with the game coming out a year later", I have a few personal opinions about this. I would rather have a half working game now, that gets fixed in 4-6 months rather than wait twice that amount of time to play the same product, but that's just me. Microsoft wanted the game to be released on the 10 year of Halo 2, even if that meant shipping a game that didnt entirely work.

I have seen this alot as well, "I bought an Xbox One, a headset, etc. just to play MCC." Ok first off, I dont care, simple as that. Two, You have all but one part of your purchase that works at pretty much 100% capacity and youre going to rage at the entire purchase when there's more than just one game out there? I can understand wanting to play Halo, but usually people who play Halo are open to other games and genres, so be that person and buy something else in the meantime, Dragon Age: Inquisition is a great example. Other great games can hold your attention in the meantime, but dont rage because you have nothing to play at 100% effectiveness on your Xbox.

Halo The Master Chief Collection, not Halo The Multiplayer Collection. I can understand loving the multiplayer and wanting to play it. But the campaign and achievements can hold your attention for a very long time, in my case 400+ hours. Multiplayer was an added bonus, MCC was made for the campaign and shouldnt be ignored completely, so play it. If your argument is "but i dont care about the campaign" then go play cod, if your argument is "but i want more of a challenge" go play battlefield, play Halo for the love of Halo, not any other reason.

Metaphors about buying cars. Really... Stop with this, its absolutely stupid. If you are willing to compare a car purchase to a video game, you should probably get your priorities straight. Car purchases and game purchases have no relation other than a money transaction, Its an apples to oranges comparison. If you still really want this argument, I will give my own examples. Buying MCC + Xbox + Headset is like a car with a radio that only plays AM and a select few FM stations and will be fixed in the future, so in the meantime, buy a new radio. All radios are there to achieve the same purpose, and I am very sure it is not a one size fits all situation. Buying MCC is like a car without AC, or powered windows. You can still get to point A to point B, but not as well or as comfortable as other cars, but you will get your car fixed for free in the coming months, and then the manufacturer throws in a free GPS, and a free month of gas. Cars dont work this way, if theyre broken, you pay alot of money to fix them, video games, they manufacturer will spend alot of money making you happy and fix it for you, be grateful for that.

I can guarantee you that every little update that has happened to the game that "made it worse" was in preparation of this large update, they were stepping stones to get this update to fix everything, only time will tell however and assuming that it will just break the game more is ignorant.

This thread is not made to say that people cant voice their opinions, its to say that you need to know facts and you need to not be d-bags about the whole process of complaining, these forums have turned into a dumpster fire at a chemical plant and it hurts me, as well as others, seeing it that way.

Raging gets you nowhere. Bashing gets you nowhere. Trolling gets you nowhere. Have an actual productive conversation and argument for once.
This^ so much win! I recently tried to say something along the lines of this but I suck at getting my point across clearly. I couldn't agree more.
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