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tbh I gotta give 343 credit where its due since they stuck with mcc and consistently update the collection by fixing bugs and/or adding new features I figured after the few years they would just give up and move on to other projects including infinite but no im glad they are sticking to it with MCC giving it the love and support it deserves
I agree with you. I remember buying this game being super hyped and playing it, in the beginning, it was a major let down back then. But now they are fixing it slowly but surely and it's becoming a better game. So yes 343 is learning which is great shows that they care about old work and will continue to improve with time. fingers cross that Halo infinite will be amazing because we need a new game.
Yea, there’s far too much negativity in gaming. They have done an amazing job. I can’t believe they are sill working on it so long after release.
The MCC was definitely handled wrongly between 2015 and 2017, but I am grateful that they've decided to support it now. The MCC is better than ever. Can't wait for the custom browser and XP system (hopefully)
That get a ton of credit* from me for the modern aiming patch. If they improve Halo 2's framerate and weird vehicle judder the campaign will be (near) perfect.

*note: my credit has no monetary value
Yes, I agree with everything and I’m glad they are fixing it.

But it is unacceptable to make such a game and do not fix it for 3 years. They gifted ODST for the ones who ‘supported’ the game in the first months ( in which the matchmakig was impossible ) but it remains a real shame. 343 has a very long way in to convince myself.

I have reed that there is too much criticism and negativity about 343’ work, but that’s just because they made a terrible work: MCC was unplayable ( LITERARILY ), it is still full of bugs and problems and its matchmaking was fixed after 3 year ( 3 YEARS! ).
If such a game wasn’t halo, they would have failed after year. They are lucky the halo franchise had a great fanbase and will always sell a lot, even if a game doesn’t literarily work.
Everyone has their own opinion on how this all panned out. Some say we ought to cut 343 some slack, and that they've done a great job. Others say that 343 should've fixed it sooner, and that we should keep hounding them to remind them not to screw up again. I don't think I can judge them either way, because I have no idea what's been going on with them over the years. I don't know how difficult it would be be to work on the next Halo game while figuring out how to get a duct-taped collection of games to work. But there is one thing I can say.

There have been a lot of game developers who have released broken products only to abandon them shortly thereafter. 343 could've done the same and focused on their own Halo games. I remember hearing conspiracies that 343 made the MCC terrible on purpose in hopes of fooling people into thinking the originals were that bad, so their own games would look that much better by comparison. But 343 wouldn't cut off their nose to spite their face. It's better late than never, and a low population is better than no population.

And what if 343's work pays off in the end? The game gets better, people hear about it, and more players jump on board. I've come back after playing mostly Destiny 2 for the past year, and not everyone who picks up this game will have a prescience here on Waypoint. It might have taken 3 years to get the game in this state, but if it provides us with several years of fun gameplay with revived classic multiplayer, how will those years compare?
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
I’m glad they did all this work too. The experience right now is awesome, and they should keep up the good work.

The past is the past and the future looks bright for Halo.
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
This this this this this

Halo is the flagship franchise of the Xbox, and Microsoft knows it's been in the dirt for years. Goodwill does not motivate a company to fix a game. Money does. And in this case, it's the need for MS to protect its flagship brand and console seller.

I'm glad they have more or less fixed the MCC. Truly. It means that I have something to play and enjoy when they continue to release sub-par Halo games in the future. But 343 will get credit and trust from me when they demonstrate they can release a great halo game, which they have not yet done and which I do not think they are capable of in the near future, given the current laughable state of the campaign story and their foolish commitment to movement mechanics in multiplayer. They don't get a lot of credit from me for fixing Bungie's games which they broke, four years after release.
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
I would argue the biggest difference are the two business models. Old MCC was very much done on the sell a game for $60 and be done model.

New MCC is built in the games as a service model, and look how much more they can do with a steady revenue stream.
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
I would argue the biggest difference are the two business models. Old MCC was very much done on the sell a game for $60 and be done model.

New MCC is built in the games as a service model, and look how much more they can do with a steady revenue stream.
Games as a service doesn’t work and is insulting to the consumer. It’s basically a way for companies to release unfinished games early and make money on them faster. Once they reach their goal, they leave the game in whatever state it’s in, whether that be complete or totally wrecked. Halo 5 is based on that and it took months to get Forge and Theater. All in all, it wasn’t a complete game until late 2016 or early 2017. Then the weapon updates began and look where that is now. Constant updates are not a good model for any game. Compare Halo 5 now to what it was at launch and it’s completely different to the point that players have had to totally evolve their playstyle in campaign and multiplayer. That’s not a positive model at all. Games need to be released finished because that’s exactly how games are supposed to be. Games are not Netflix.

New MCC is not getting new content in the same sense. It’s the same old games and modes being fixed to be in a full working state with some new relatively minor features like modern aiming. It’s one of the few big name games to get a total refresh to make it a polished game. Bug fixes and playlist refreshes are there to extend the multiplayer life and make it more interesting. The core of the game remains the same and can be played offline without a pseudo DRM-type model meaning it’s not a service. Besides, it takes time to clean up such a gigantic mess. Again, tons of praise for the work being done, but not so much for the way the game was released.

Maybe I’m arguing semantics, but regardless MCC is thankfully not a service in my mind because it’s being fixed up over time rather than released outright as unfinished like Halo 5.
tuhin94 wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
I would argue the biggest difference are the two business models. Old MCC was very much done on the sell a game for $60 and be done model.

New MCC is built in the games as a service model, and look how much more they can do with a steady revenue stream.
Games as a service doesn’t work and is insulting to the consumer. It’s basically a way for companies to release unfinished games early and make money on them faster. Once they reach their goal, they leave the game in whatever state it’s in, whether that be complete or totally wrecked. Halo 5 is based on that and it took months to get Forge and Theater. All in all, it wasn’t a complete game until late 2016 or early 2017. Then the weapon updates began and look where that is now. Constant updates are not a good model for any game. Compare Halo 5 now to what it was at launch and it’s completely different to the point that players have had to totally evolve their playstyle in campaign and multiplayer. That’s not a positive model at all. Games need to be released finished because that’s exactly how games are supposed to be. Games are not Netflix.

New MCC is not getting new content in the same sense. It’s the same old games and modes being fixed to be in a full working state with some new relatively minor features like modern aiming. It’s one of the few big name games to get a total refresh to make it a polished game. Bug fixes and playlist refreshes are there to extend the multiplayer life and make it more interesting. The core of the game remains the same and can be played offline without a pseudo DRM-type model meaning it’s not a service. Besides, it takes time to clean up such a gigantic mess. Again, tons of praise for the work being done, but not so much for the way the game was released.

Maybe I’m arguing symantics, but regardless MCC is thankfully not a service in my mind because it’s being fixed up over time rather than released outright as unfinished like Halo 5.
Games as a service have nothing to do with how much content was released. Halo 5 was released with an agile approach versus the old school waterfall approach used to make games. Overall agile leads to a better end product. You might say H5 lacked content at launch, but we also didn’t have to wait until 2017 to get H5.

MCC fits the game as a service model now since it’s in Gamepass, and gets a steady inflow of revenue from that subscription base every month.
tuhin94 wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
I would argue the biggest difference are the two business models. Old MCC was very much done on the sell a game for $60 and be done model.

New MCC is built in the games as a service model, and look how much more they can do with a steady revenue stream.
Games as a service doesn’t work and is insulting to the consumer. It’s basically a way for companies to release unfinished games early and make money on them faster. Once they reach their goal, they leave the game in whatever state it’s in, whether that be complete or totally wrecked. Halo 5 is based on that and it took months to get Forge and Theater. All in all, it wasn’t a complete game until late 2016 or early 2017. Then the weapon updates began and look where that is now. Constant updates are not a good model for any game. Compare Halo 5 now to what it was at launch and it’s completely different to the point that players have had to totally evolve their playstyle in campaign and multiplayer. That’s not a positive model at all. Games need to be released finished because that’s exactly how games are supposed to be. Games are not Netflix.

New MCC is not getting new content in the same sense. It’s the same old games and modes being fixed to be in a full working state with some new relatively minor features like modern aiming. It’s one of the few big name games to get a total refresh to make it a polished game. Bug fixes and playlist refreshes are there to extend the multiplayer life and make it more interesting. The core of the game remains the same and can be played offline without a pseudo DRM-type model meaning it’s not a service. Besides, it takes time to clean up such a gigantic mess. Again, tons of praise for the work being done, but not so much for the way the game was released.

Maybe I’m arguing symantics, but regardless MCC is thankfully not a service in my mind because it’s being fixed up over time rather than released outright as unfinished like Halo 5.
Games as a service have nothing to do with how much content was released. Halo 5 was released with an agile approach versus the old school waterfall approach used to make games. Overall agile leads to a better end product. You might say H5 lacked content at launch, but we also didn’t have to wait until 2017 to get H5.

MCC fits the game as a service model now since it’s in Gamepass, and gets a steady inflow of revenue from that subscription base every month.
Clearly you’re happy with the broken and predatory model of Halo 5 and, I’m assuming, other games from the likes of Activision and EA. That’s great for you and not really my concern to convince you otherwise. However, my last point to you is that Game Pass is the service and not MCC, much like Netflix is the service and not the movies it provides. Game Pass is incredible though.
tuhin94 wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
*snip*
*snip*
Games as a service have nothing to do with how much content was released. Halo 5 was released with an agile approach versus the old school waterfall approach used to make games. Overall agile leads to a better end product. You might say H5 lacked content at launch, but we also didn’t have to wait until 2017 to get H5.
Lolwhat? This is so out of touch with reality that it's crazy to me that anyone actually believes this.

First, by what metric can you say that H5 a better product than Halo 1-Reach... games released with the "old school" approach? Almost any empirical metric you can possibly use will tell you that Halo 1-Reach were vastly superior games to Halo 5. So why on earth do you think that "agile leads to a better end product"? You have to invent a hypothetical counterfactual scenario ("halo 5 would have not been released until 2017") that has zero evidence to support it in order for this assertion to be even remotely plausible. That's just flat out craziness.

Second, you assert that "agile" development "has nothing to do with how much content is released"... when you even concede that Halo 5 "lacked content" at launch, which it most certainly did. So good job contradicting yourself. Again, if you have to invent a hypothetical counterfactual for your point to be valid, your point is probably not valid...

You can definitely make the following point about games as a service: "if a company has monetary incentives to support a game post-launch, then that game will receive better post-launch support". However, if your business model involves releasing an inferior product - which is what "games as a service" is in its current state in the gaming industry - then the superior post-launch support is largely negated. You need a launch of a complete, finished game, AND have great post-launch support. "Games as a service" is not presently a model which accomplishes that at all.

I'd say that as a flagship franchise for Xbox, there is actually significant financial risk in releasing a Halo game that is anything short of great at its launch. Halo 5 lost a lot of potential momentum because when it launched, people looked at it, and went "wow that campaign is bad, and wow there's tons of missing content here" and any opportunity to build momentum and word of mouth was lost. If M$/343 adopt a traditional "games as service" model for Halo:Infinite whereby they release a game that is basically in early access or beta form and then try to finish/perfect it with post-launch support, Halo:Infinite will flop.
tuhin94 wrote:
tuhin94 wrote:
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. At the end of the day they are a business after all. I'm just saying don't make it out more than it is.

They were rushed to make it in the first place to hold people until h5. Then the powers at be forced them to give up on it. And now they were forced to work on it again to hold people until infinite, promote Xbox one x, promote game pass, and salvage the company's rep.

Good for them, sincerely. It was mutually beneficial. But again, don't make it out like it was something more. All that "owing the community" stuff is just pr talk.
But being “that guy” is being 100% right haha. This is so correct and I wish more people would understand this.

What happened with MCC should be looked at in two phases in my mind. The pre-summer-update version (old MCC) and new MCC. What they did with old MCC is absolutely unacceptable and pretty shameful for a big-name company handling such a beloved and lucrative franchise. It can never be forgiven even if it was fixed.

At the same time, the work they did on new MCC cannot be understated. It’s high quality stuff and there are some nifty new features never before seen in those games. I’ve been pretty generous with my compliments specifically for new MCC because of the work that the small team has put in deserves respect and praise.

However, bringing the business side of what you mentioned here, it’s only because there is one that this fix was done. You look at Halo Wars 2 (not going to bother discussing the scammy business practices because the sheep will start bleeting) and it’s a buggy mess as well. It’s absolutely infuriating to play that game because of all those bugs even though there’s so much cool stuff there to love visually and gameplay-wise (artstyle, menu art, music, great controller layout, and so on). There were new features (eg., something to track your completed objectives) and fixes (like for broken achievements) promised that have been totally abandoned. Same thing for Halo 5, they planned the unnecessary sandbox updates incredibly poorly and have ditched them in the middle of what they stated would be a “feedback phase.” I’m patiently waiting for new hardware so they can revisit their portfolio and finally make these games complete years after launch.

All this to say, give credit where credit is due and give lots of it, like in the case of new MCC, but until they fix everything they have released and then consistently release new games like Infinite in a complete and polished state from the get-go (which I have confidence they will), they still have some work left to get total love and make up for past mistakes like MCC and HW2. At the moment, they’re 1/3 of the way there for old stuff.
I would argue the biggest difference are the two business models. Old MCC was very much done on the sell a game for $60 and be done model.

New MCC is built in the games as a service model, and look how much more they can do with a steady revenue stream.
Games as a service doesn’t work and is insulting to the consumer. It’s basically a way for companies to release unfinished games early and make money on them faster. Once they reach their goal, they leave the game in whatever state it’s in, whether that be complete or totally wrecked. Halo 5 is based on that and it took months to get Forge and Theater. All in all, it wasn’t a complete game until late 2016 or early 2017. Then the weapon updates began and look where that is now. Constant updates are not a good model for any game. Compare Halo 5 now to what it was at launch and it’s completely different to the point that players have had to totally evolve their playstyle in campaign and multiplayer. That’s not a positive model at all. Games need to be released finished because that’s exactly how games are supposed to be. Games are not Netflix.

New MCC is not getting new content in the same sense. It’s the same old games and modes being fixed to be in a full working state with some new relatively minor features like modern aiming. It’s one of the few big name games to get a total refresh to make it a polished game. Bug fixes and playlist refreshes are there to extend the multiplayer life and make it more interesting. The core of the game remains the same and can be played offline without a pseudo DRM-type model meaning it’s not a service. Besides, it takes time to clean up such a gigantic mess. Again, tons of praise for the work being done, but not so much for the way the game was released.

Maybe I’m arguing symantics, but regardless MCC is thankfully not a service in my mind because it’s being fixed up over time rather than released outright as unfinished like Halo 5.
Games as a service have nothing to do with how much content was released. Halo 5 was released with an agile approach versus the old school waterfall approach used to make games. Overall agile leads to a better end product. You might say H5 lacked content at launch, but we also didn’t have to wait until 2017 to get H5.

MCC fits the game as a service model now since it’s in Gamepass, and gets a steady inflow of revenue from that subscription base every month.
I work in telecommunications and management likes the new “agile” method. It’s always a complete mess that needs to be fixed on the go. It does not lead to a better product, it’s a cheaper way of getting stuff out fast. It always leads to a buggy incomplete product
343 does agile the right way now as evidenced by the Insider program. As I said before, the future of Halo is very bright.
343 does agile the right way now as evidenced by the Insider program. As I said before, the future of Halo is very bright.
Let's see them actually make their first great Halo game before we proclaim that they are doing game development the right way, mmmk?
WreckonerH wrote:
I don't wanna be that guy but...let's be frank; they didn't fix the game out of the goodness of their heart. There were definitely monetary and marketing incentives to fix it.
Of course. They are a business and they're primary goal is to maximize shareholder value. That said, I genuinely believe that the people working on Halo have great skills and passion. They were wrong to ignore it for so long, but they've learnt that there is value for them and for the community in MCC and thus here we are.
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