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XbL Dingle wrote:
XFitDaddy wrote:
Bloom was not balanced in OG Reach. Players who decided to pace their shots would constantly lose to players who spammed. Only at very long distances was shot pacing actually encouraged.
This is true. Happened to me many times in CQB.
False. I paced my shot and won every battle back in the day. Why? Because of their spamming and my controlled bursts.
False. You didnt win 'every' battle. Dont lie like that. Bloom is awful, it doesn't work and it slows down game play.
Halo is supposed to be slow... Bleedthru and no bloom sped it up but that is bastardized Halo. If you want fast play CoD
You're telling me that in a competitive online shooter you would PREFER to have more random elements. Random elements in games invariably hurt stronger players who would otherwise earn a victory in a fight. The reason random bullet spread in the Halo 3 BR was removed in hardcore is the same reason there's no bloom in the Halo Reach hardcore playlist. Not because MLG wanted every game to be Halo 2, but because random elements can ruin matches between high level players. Also, what applies to the highest levels of play apply to all levels below it. There is no reason this should even be a debate.

TLDR: All random elements in games hurt balance and cause unfair fights.

ps: 343, if you want to make every playlist no bloom that would be cool with me :)
Who cares about the bloom, take bleed through out of the damn game. Ruining close range fighting with inconsistencies.
Who cares about the bloom, take bleed through out of the damn game. Ruining close range fighting with inconsistencies.
A sliver of shield should not stop a melee dead in its tracks from hitting your health.
JB Linken wrote:
343 implemented the Title Update to Halo: Reach. Personally I think the Title Update helped improve the game. The reduced bloom, rebalancing of Armor Lock, and melee bleedthrough returning being the biggest takeaways.
It helped improve how? All tu playlist have been dead for years. While there are still 1300 on regular reach daily
Simply not true. BTB was active even up to the weekend right before the MCC port was released, and I think Dubs was still kicking as well.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
Lyk2 wrote:
I hate the DMR to begin with, it's like thats the only Weapon left in Multiplayer? Where is my beloved AR? And I don't like TU either, It does feel like the others are cheating, i shoot them first, right at the head, multiple times, yet they seem to be able to kill me with one single shot?
"It's like thats the only Weapon left in Multiplayer", Except you know the Needle Rifle, Needler, Plasma Pistol, Focus Rifle, Sword, Hammer, Fuel Rod, Plasma Launcher, Concussion Rifle, Laser, Rockets, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, and Grenade launcher. Which leaves the AR, Repeater, and Magnum as the only outliers which if you noticed is only a small portion of the sandbox.

Obviously it would be nice if all weapons were viable, but this type of hyperbole does nothing to help your case. The DMR isn't "OP" just because a small portion of other weapons are underpowered.
The DMR has no competition meaning the AR cannot beat it in a 1v1 the Magnum cannot beat it in a 1v1 these are the two most common weapons in the game the needle rifle sometimes can beat it but overall you get outplayed by the DMR. And trying to use the shotgun unless you are camping around a corner the DMR will win four shots to the head when you have to shoot twice with a shotgun. Also when trying to use a sniper on a small a DMR can shoot better and is the better choice unless you're playing in BTB even then it's a DMR cesspool. 343 made big team Battle into 4v4 maps with 16 people.
Its not the DMR's fault 3 weapons are badly designed. As for the Needle Rifle the removal of bloom in TU makes it a very effective weapon in its own right, whereas in vanilla it isn't bad, it is just redundant, which again isn't the DMR's fault that the devs were fine with lazy reskins in some areas.

If you can't find success with the Shotgun and Sniper that is all on you fam. 343 didn't do anything, DMR, and by extension precision weapon starts, have always been a part of BTB, many of Reach's maps are just kind of bad, deal with it.

The "DMR makes other weapons useless" argument was always bad and unless you only want to use one of those 3 weapon, the rest of the sandbox works fine. Games have balance problems, sorry your favorite got the short end of the stick.
when you play Slayer you have an assault rifle or DMR choice everybody's going to use the DMR you cannot go up against the DMR with any other three weapons so just because three weapons as you say or underpowered does not mean that the DMR should be the go-to weapon for all Case scenarios. Yes the sandbox is not balanced but the weapons that you are given at the beginning of the game should at least be capable have a chance at least it take on the DMR the pistol and the AR cannot you literally will not win at all. Out of the three weapons you're given everyone will choose the DMR. And one last thing the shotgun in the sniper are good weapons but I can guarantee that if a shotgun is rushing towards you what are you going to do it takes two shotgun shots to kill you where the DMR takes for sometimes three because of the bleed out shenanigans. For the sniper if someone is sniping on a small map it is very easy for a DMR to take on a sniper.
Again, it does suck that some weapons are not up to par, but forcing people to use bad weapons does not make for great game design. The 3 weapons I mentioned are bad in vanilla, bad in TU, and bad in both DMR and AR starts. The weapons you spawn with should be good weapons, which is why DMR starts work and ARs don't. I wish the AR and Magnum were viable weapons in their own right by they just are not, we have to choose the best settings for the game we have not the one we wish we had.

Re: Shotgun rushing straight towards a weapon with better range is never a good idea, its like the Shotgun is supposed to be used at close range or something. As far as the sniper goes, that is kind of the point. Utility weapons like the DMR or BR, or CE Pistol before it are the great equalizers that let a team on the backfoot get back into the game by using their versatile precision weapon to exploit the weaknesses of power weapons.
I don't think you're understanding I agree with everything you said I just do not like how powerful the DMR is right now and the MCC reach there is no weapon that is its true competitor end of story there is nothing else, if there is then tell me what is better overall than the DMR because it's not the needle rifle, what focus rifle?
There isn't supposed to be a direct competitor, even if I would argue that the TU Needle Rifle is more than a match. The DMR is the resident utility weapon in Halo Reach, it is the anchor point for the entire game. You spawn with a strong utility that allows you to break out of unfavorable position through skilled play and ideally have strong niche weapons that allow you to specialize. You should be picking up weapons to gain specific advantages rather than pure upgrades. I grab a Focus rifle to be better at range and melt shields, I grab a Plasma Pistol for EMP and potent close range damage, I grab a concussion rifle to counter close range weapons like the Shotgun, sword, and hammer(which I grab for their OHK capability at close range).

The DMR's effective niche is to be versatile which means it gets a lot of use. The system is working as intended, there is just a small number of weapons that don't work as well as they should.
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
FACT: TU was only implemented because there were so many numptys who would just mash that trigger as fast as they could when they saw their target and would get mad when they got out dmrd by someone who fired less shots, cuz they actually paced them and didn’t spam like an idiot.
“OmG dMr iS sO bAd ReMoVe BlOoM nOw!!” I remember back in the day Bungie refused to cater to the cry babies who whined and cried about this because they didn’t want to adapt to the game and exercise better self control on their trigger pulls, then 343 took over and gave in to the cry babies. I’m not gonna argue with anyone about this as it’s very clearly evident most of you couldn’t handle Reach pre-2011TU, and by definition, needed to git gud, and still do.
Peace!
Your post makes no sense and it’s clear your opinion is ill formed, the fact that living dead is your most played playlist suggests this.

Lets say hypothetically that bloom actually works the way it should. Here is what it still does - It limits players who are good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot - a lot of you consider this spamming, when in actuality it's nothing more than good aim without bloom. At the same time that it forces good players to slow down, it also allows poor players more time to line up their shot so that they don't have to be fast and accurate, but rather just accurate. That's the reason you see so many players complain about bloom while seeing so many still defend it. Why should a good player be forced to let a lesser player have more time to adjust just because they’re good. Shouldn't a deciding factor in the difference of skill between two players be both speed and accuracy?
Bloom allows poor players to play better than they should while it holds back players who don't need to slow down to still remain deadly accurate.

Put a bad player in MLG V7 and they’ll get wrecked.
I hear people saying that bloom makes it to where people with bad aim can be better but people who have good aim can't shoot better than people who have bad aim? Explain how people with good aim are at a disadvantage if you have Superior aim who cares if someone has a longer time to "aim on you". I am good at Halo 5 and Halo Reach. One has Bloom one has none.
JB Linken wrote:
343 implemented the Title Update to Halo: Reach. Personally I think the Title Update helped improve the game. The reduced bloom, rebalancing of Armor Lock, and melee bleedthrough returning being the biggest takeaways.
You can legitimately get one shotted by a Magnum! Or a DMR! Also shot once and punched immediately and you die the bleed-through system is broken
XFitDaddy wrote:
Bloom was not balanced in OG Reach. Players who decided to pace their shots would constantly lose to players who spammed. Only at very long distances was shot pacing actually encouraged.
This is true. Happened to me many times in CQB.
You have to be pretty close for the bloom not to be overwhelming and at that point you might as well just punch the dude twice LOL
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
FACT: TU was only implemented because there were so many numptys who would just mash that trigger as fast as they could when they saw their target and would get mad when they got out dmrd by someone who fired less shots, cuz they actually paced them and didn’t spam like an idiot.
“OmG dMr iS sO bAd ReMoVe BlOoM nOw!!” I remember back in the day Bungie refused to cater to the cry babies who whined and cried about this because they didn’t want to adapt to the game and exercise better self control on their trigger pulls, then 343 took over and gave in to the cry babies. I’m not gonna argue with anyone about this as it’s very clearly evident most of you couldn’t handle Reach pre-2011TU, and by definition, needed to git gud, and still do.
Peace!
Your post makes no sense and it’s clear your opinion is ill formed, the fact that living dead is your most played playlist suggests this.

Lets say hypothetically that bloom actually works the way it should. Here is what it still does - It limits players who are good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot - a lot of you consider this spamming, when in actuality it's nothing more than good aim without bloom. At the same time that it forces good players to slow down, it also allows poor players more time to line up their shot so that they don't have to be fast and accurate, but rather just accurate. That's the reason you see so many players complain about bloom while seeing so many still defend it. Why should a good player be forced to let a lesser player have more time to adjust just because they’re good. Shouldn't a deciding factor in the difference of skill between two players be both speed and accuracy?
Bloom allows poor players to play better than they should while it holds back players who don't need to slow down to still remain deadly accurate.

Put a bad player in MLG V7 and they’ll get wrecked.
I hear people saying that bloom makes it to where people with bad aim can be better but people who have good aim can't shoot better than people who have bad aim? Explain how people with good aim are at a disadvantage if you have Superior aim who cares if someone has a longer time to "aim on you". I am good at Halo 5 and Halo Reach. One has Bloom one has none.
It’s an extra variable that isn’t needed. I am an accurate shooter and very good at straffing, I shouldn’t be made to “slow my shot” to be accurate. If you play in V7 and miss once it can be the difference between death or clearing out the enemy team.

I don’t struggle with bloom, in fact I’ve got to the point where I’m quite good at manipulating it and use it to my advantage and I would even agree that the DMR needs something that stops it from being a god tier weapon at all ranges, I’m just not sure if bloom is the answer.
Bloom might work better if the reticule rest quicker. Another idea to nerf the DMR at long ranges would be to make it a projectile based weapon (only at certain ranges) and make you lead your shots but considering the issues with net code it probably wouldn’t work as intended.
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
For starters no, the AR and Magnum could never go up against the DMR, not in vanilla and not in TU, the TU does not affect the minimum ttk of any of those 3 weapons, the bloom was a non-factor for the DMR vs the AR, while the DMR is just objectively better than the Magnum at everything except at point blank range. You don't need a "counter" for everything to have value in the sandbox like the traits I just mentioned in the post you just quoted.

People didn't like bloom for the same reason they didn't like spread in Halo 3, they don't like random chance being a factor in Halo's gunfights. There are a million other ways we can make shooting more difficult and rewarding that don't involve RNG.

I also don't know how many times I have to tell you this, but the AR/Magnum(and Repeater) are just badly balanced, it sucks, but it is just a fact of life in multiplayer games, get over it. Bungie didn't go into the game with the mindset of: "We will balance these weapons poorly on purpose, as a joke" they just failed and while I wish the TU had done more to address balance in the sandbox, it didn't fundamentally change the balance of Vanilla Reach outside of maybe the NR. Again I'm sorry your favorite weapons got the short end of the stick balance wise, but that has nothing to do with the DMR or the TU.
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
FACT: TU was only implemented because there were so many numptys who would just mash that trigger as fast as they could when they saw their target and would get mad when they got out dmrd by someone who fired less shots, cuz they actually paced them and didn’t spam like an idiot.
“OmG dMr iS sO bAd ReMoVe BlOoM nOw!!” I remember back in the day Bungie refused to cater to the cry babies who whined and cried about this because they didn’t want to adapt to the game and exercise better self control on their trigger pulls, then 343 took over and gave in to the cry babies. I’m not gonna argue with anyone about this as it’s very clearly evident most of you couldn’t handle Reach pre-2011TU, and by definition, needed to git gud, and still do.
Peace!
Your post makes no sense and it’s clear your opinion is ill formed, the fact that living dead is your most played playlist suggests this.

Lets say hypothetically that bloom actually works the way it should. Here is what it still does - It limits players who are good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot - a lot of you consider this spamming, when in actuality it's nothing more than good aim without bloom. At the same time that it forces good players to slow down, it also allows poor players more time to line up their shot so that they don't have to be fast and accurate, but rather just accurate. That's the reason you see so many players complain about bloom while seeing so many still defend it. Why should a good player be forced to let a lesser player have more time to adjust just because they’re good. Shouldn't a deciding factor in the difference of skill between two players be both speed and accuracy?
Bloom allows poor players to play better than they should while it holds back players who don't need to slow down to still remain deadly accurate.

Put a bad player in MLG V7 and they’ll get wrecked.
I hear people saying that bloom makes it to where people with bad aim can be better but people who have good aim can't shoot better than people who have bad aim? Explain how people with good aim are at a disadvantage if you have Superior aim who cares if someone has a longer time to "aim on you". I am good at Halo 5 and Halo Reach. One has Bloom one has none.
It’s an extra variable that isn’t needed. I am an accurate shooter and very good at straffing, I shouldn’t be made to “slow my shot” to be accurate. If you play in V7 and miss once it can be the difference between death or clearing out the enemy team.

I don’t struggle with bloom, in fact I’ve got to the point where I’m quite good at manipulating it and use it to my advantage and I would even agree that the DMR needs something that stops it from being a god tier weapon at all ranges, I’m just not sure if bloom is the answer.
Then why do we even have zoom for weapons it's an extra variable why do we even have Sprint it's a way to run away from people shooting at you. Or lower the damage of the DMR make it to where it takes 5 shots instead of four shots? Or just allow the bleed-through effect to sometimes one shot people? There are Halo 1, 2, 3, and 4 with no bloom.

Bungie added Bloom to the game to try something new. (unlike 343 where just make a game that is okay and then sell it as the best new thing. Halo 4 and 5 for fun but they didn't last nearly as long as Halo 3 or reach) bungie knew the DMR was powerful that is why they did that to the DMR and the needle rifle. Using the weapons are too easy now. I can't use an AR against the DMR and I'm really sad about that, it's just useless against it. But this is just my opinion.
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
Jim Jam 94 wrote:
FACT: TU was only implemented because there were so many numptys who would just mash that trigger as fast as they could when they saw their target and would get mad when they got out dmrd by someone who fired less shots, cuz they actually paced them and didn’t spam like an idiot.
“OmG dMr iS sO bAd ReMoVe BlOoM nOw!!” I remember back in the day Bungie refused to cater to the cry babies who whined and cried about this because they didn’t want to adapt to the game and exercise better self control on their trigger pulls, then 343 took over and gave in to the cry babies. I’m not gonna argue with anyone about this as it’s very clearly evident most of you couldn’t handle Reach pre-2011TU, and by definition, needed to git gud, and still do.
Peace!
Your post makes no sense and it’s clear your opinion is ill formed, the fact that living dead is your most played playlist suggests this.

Lets say hypothetically that bloom actually works the way it should. Here is what it still does - It limits players who are good enough to fire at the max RoF and still land every shot - a lot of you consider this spamming, when in actuality it's nothing more than good aim without bloom. At the same time that it forces good players to slow down, it also allows poor players more time to line up their shot so that they don't have to be fast and accurate, but rather just accurate. That's the reason you see so many players complain about bloom while seeing so many still defend it. Why should a good player be forced to let a lesser player have more time to adjust just because they’re good. Shouldn't a deciding factor in the difference of skill between two players be both speed and accuracy?
Bloom allows poor players to play better than they should while it holds back players who don't need to slow down to still remain deadly accurate.

Put a bad player in MLG V7 and they’ll get wrecked.
I hear people saying that bloom makes it to where people with bad aim can be better but people who have good aim can't shoot better than people who have bad aim? Explain how people with good aim are at a disadvantage if you have Superior aim who cares if someone has a longer time to "aim on you". I am good at Halo 5 and Halo Reach. One has Bloom one has none.
It’s an extra variable that isn’t needed. I am an accurate shooter and very good at straffing, I shouldn’t be made to “slow my shot” to be accurate. If you play in V7 and miss once it can be the difference between death or clearing out the enemy team.

I don’t struggle with bloom, in fact I’ve got to the point where I’m quite good at manipulating it and use it to my advantage and I would even agree that the DMR needs something that stops it from being a god tier weapon at all ranges, I’m just not sure if bloom is the answer.
Then why do we even have zoom for weapons it's an extra variable why do we even have Sprint it's a way to run away from people shooting at you. Or lower the damage of the DMR make it to where it takes 5 shots instead of four shots? Or just allow the bleed-through effect to sometimes one shot people? There are Halo 1, 2, 3, and 4 with no bloom.

Bungie added Bloom to the game to try something new. (unlike 343 where just make a game that is okay and then sell it as the best new thing. Halo 4 and 5 for fun but they didn't last nearly as long as Halo 3 or reach) bungie knew the DMR was powerful that is why they did that to the DMR and the needle rifle. Using the weapons are too easy now. I can't use an AR against the DMR and I'm really sad about that, it's just useless against it. But this is just my opinion.
DMR is too easy? Go and play V7 just to see how wrong you are. Bloom adds an element of randomness that is unnecessary.
I've read this entire thread, and I see where both sides are coming from. Despite the fact that the conversation has devolved at points to name-calling and accusations of low skill, I'll try to introduce a more balanced line of thinking here.

Reach was the second online multiplayer game that I played using Xbox Live. I enjoyed it more than Halo 4 and Halo 3; I found it to be more fun. I would say that most of my time spent playing Reach, I didn't really know the difference between TU and Vanilla, besides the Armor Lock nerf. I have Perfection medals in both Vanilla and TU game modes; specifically Team Slayer, BTB, one Perfection in Doubles and possibly one in a match of Super Slayer. I especially enjoyed Rumble Pit and Multi-team, and it saddens me that those playlists are ghost towns at this stage in OG Reach's lifespan. I also liked Team Slayer and Invasion.

When switching between BTB and Team Slayer, for instance, I can say with confidence that I never particularly noticed the difference between 100% and 85% bloom until recently. And, while I may have noticed Melee bleed through in Rumble Pit, I wasn't bothered by it, at least that I can remember.

I don't believe the emptiness of most of the TU modes is due to the way the game plays, but rather the nature of the playlists and the unfortunate naming of Super Slayer. Super Slayer is a weird name, and it's not immediately clear what kind of playlist it is. Why take a chance on that, when you can go to a playlist with a trusted name like Team Slayer? Sure, Super Slayer has a description that lets you know it uses the Title Update, but I suspect (yet, admittedly, cannot prove) that a large portion of Reach's returning player base also didn't really know what "Title Updated" actually meant, much like myself. And there are players who don't bother to read the descriptions of playlists. "Super Slayer" immediately reads like a playlist with unfamiliar game modes, which means that fun isn't a guarantee (not that there would necessarily be guaranteed fun in Team Slayer, but at least Team Slayer is a no-brainer).

Team Objective is dead because most players would rather play various kinds of Slayer modes.

Rumble Pit is dead because FFA playlists are usually among the least populated lists in any given Halo game; players would probably rather have the safety of a team than fend for themselves most of the time.

I guess Multi-team and Doubles are dead because they're too niche for a game with a small playerbase.

BTB has kept a consistent population at certain times of day because it's easily understandable and not really a risk (unless you get an awful Forge map with Single Bomb, lol).

With all that said, I offer my thoughts on TU:

I'll start by saying that, over the last year, the times that I went back to play OG Reach I usually picked Team Slayer because it's straightforward and always populated, much like the TDM playlist in any given CoD. I found that 100% Bloom was incredibly infuriating because of the sheer amount of randomness that it creates. Pacing your shots at any range takes a long time, giving the enemy player plenty of opportunity to spam back or run for cover. I believe that rewarding players who spam for that one lucky shot at mid-to-close range with the DMR (or Magnum) and therefore punishing players who take the time to pace their shots... is inherently bad game design.

I found myself becoming so frustrated with the inconsistency of gunplay that I preferred BTB for gameplay style, except BTB is full of quitters and awful map + mode combinations.

Now, having played plenty of AR starts FFA in MCC, I find the Magnum to oh-so-rewarding. It's very satisfying to pace one's shots perfectly, beating an enemy player who is spamming their shots, be it with their own Magnum or a spray-and-pray Assault Rifle. The DMR in BTB I don't find to be problematic, mostly because the maps have a lot of cover and there are plenty of ways to escape situations, such as Sprint or Jetpack. With that said, I'm not opposed to AR starts in BTB.

tl;dr, I prefer 85% Bloom because it rewards pacing your shots much more than 100% Bloom ever has.

Now, as for shot and melee bleed through, I sympathize with the people who don't like the unpredictability that it creates in TU Reach. Knowing when you are one-shot is a consistent kind of indicator in Vanilla modes, and it means you can base your play style around that. It's sometimes frustrating to not know if your remaining shields are strong enough for you to endure another headshot. Likewise, Melee bleedthrough can create a game of frantic button pressing in CQC, especially with the healthy melee lunge and magnetism. It can create some unsatisfying trades.

However, it's also frustrating to know that if someone hits you first in Vanilla, and they have even a sliver of their shields left, they will win that fight--unless you have a power weapon--by simply hitting you again. Halo's multiplayer has usually been distinct from other shooters because of the amount of tactical options it allows in many situations, as opposed to giving the victory to whomever hits first.

tl;dr, I have no strong opinion on bleedthrough either way. I think Melee damage could stand to be reduced slightly in TU, but I don't necessarily prefer Vanilla settings.
JB Linken wrote:
343 implemented the Title Update to Halo: Reach. Personally I think the Title Update helped improve the game. The reduced bloom, rebalancing of Armor Lock, and melee bleedthrough returning being the biggest takeaways.
You can legitimately get one shotted by a Magnum! Or a DMR! Also shot once and punched immediately and you die the bleed-through system is broken
Not a single thing you said here is true. It takes 3 DMR shots for a melee to do enough damage to kill on TU settings. You can't get one shotted by a DMR or Magnum.
JB Linken wrote:
343 implemented the Title Update to Halo: Reach. Personally I think the Title Update helped improve the game. The reduced bloom, rebalancing of Armor Lock, and melee bleedthrough returning being the biggest takeaways.
It helped improve how? All tu playlist have been dead for years. While there are still 1300 on regular reach daily
Simply not true. BTB was active even up to the weekend right before the MCC port was released, and I think Dubs was still kicking as well.
Well btb is btb. It ill take alot to kill that mode. What is dubs? And for the most part it is true. Just look at the numbers. And yes its not dead but it surely is dying for a long long time by now
WerepyreND wrote:
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
For starters no, the AR and Magnum could never go up against the DMR, not in vanilla and not in TU, the TU does not affect the minimum ttk of any of those 3 weapons, the bloom was a non-factor for the DMR vs the AR, while the DMR is just objectively better than the Magnum at everything except at point blank range. You don't need a "counter" for everything to have value in the sandbox like the traits I just mentioned in the post you just quoted.

People didn't like bloom for the same reason they didn't like spread in Halo 3, they don't like random chance being a factor in Halo's gunfights. There are a million other ways we can make shooting more difficult and rewarding that don't involve RNG.

I also don't know how many times I have to tell you this, but the AR/Magnum(and Repeater) are just badly balanced, it sucks, but it is just a fact of life in multiplayer games, get over it. Bungie didn't go into the game with the mindset of: "We will balance these weapons poorly on purpose, as a joke" they just failed and while I wish the TU had done more to address balance in the sandbox, it didn't fundamentally change the balance of Vanilla Reach outside of maybe the NR. Again I'm sorry your favorite weapons got the short end of the stick balance wise, but that has nothing to do with the DMR or the TU
WerepyreND wrote:
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
For starters no, the AR and Magnum could never go up against the DMR, not in vanilla and not in TU, the TU does not affect the minimum ttk of any of those 3 weapons, the bloom was a non-factor for the DMR vs the AR, while the DMR is just objectively better than the Magnum at everything except at point blank range. You don't need a "counter" for everything to have value in the sandbox like the traits I just mentioned in the post you just quoted.

People didn't like bloom for the same reason they didn't like spread in Halo 3, they don't like random chance being a factor in Halo's gunfights. There are a million other ways we can make shooting more difficult and rewarding that don't involve RNG.

I also don't know how many times I have to tell you this, but the AR/Magnum(and Repeater) are just badly balanced, it sucks, but it is just a fact of life in multiplayer games, get over it. Bungie didn't go into the game with the mindset of: "We will balance these weapons poorly on purpose, as a joke" they just failed and while I wish the TU had done more to address balance in the sandbox, it didn't fundamentally change the balance of Vanilla Reach outside of maybe the NR. Again I'm sorry your favorite weapons got the short end of the stick balance wise, but that has nothing to do with the DMR or the TU.
In OG reach you can use the assault rifle against a DMR in close range the fact that you don't know that is mind-boggling same thing for the pistol you're one of those people who always use the DMR because you didn't like the assault rifle because and how long it took can't win everything. I'm not boasting about how I am the best Halo Reach player I am sometimes above-average. And yes for the TU settings the ttk for the AR and Magnum are lower. There are 4 Halo games that have no bloom halo 3 and reach are considered the best halos to ever come out and guess what they have "bloom" reach should have stayed the way reach was it is if you have better aim then the other person will lose I have a friend who's not very good at Halo Reach but he loves it and he hates having lower bloom because it's too easy. Back in the day when I would set up custom Slayer lobbies who said that they didn't like the bloom either but they dealt with it and they got better it's a shame that if someone randomly shoots they COULD beat you but that was a rare case scenario.
Spoiler:
Show
XbL Dingle wrote:
XFitDaddy wrote:
Bloom was not balanced in OG Reach. Players who decided to pace their shots would constantly lose to players who spammed. Only at very long distances was shot pacing actually encouraged.
This is true. Happened to me many times in CQB.
False. I paced my shot and won every battle back in the day. Why? Because of their spamming and my controlled bursts.
False. You didnt win 'every' battle. Dont lie like that. Bloom is awful, it doesn't work and it slows down game play.
Slowing down gameplay is the entire point of it. It’s not a battle rifle and it’s not Halo 3
WerepyreND wrote:
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
For starters no, the AR and Magnum could never go up against the DMR, not in vanilla and not in TU, the TU does not affect the minimum ttk of any of those 3 weapons, the bloom was a non-factor for the DMR vs the AR, while the DMR is just objectively better than the Magnum at everything except at point blank range. You don't need a "counter" for everything to have value in the sandbox like the traits I just mentioned in the post you just quoted.

People didn't like bloom for the same reason they didn't like spread in Halo 3, they don't like random chance being a factor in Halo's gunfights. There are a million other ways we can make shooting more difficult and rewarding that don't involve RNG.

I also don't know how many times I have to tell you this, but the AR/Magnum(and Repeater) are just badly balanced, it sucks, but it is just a fact of life in multiplayer games, get over it. Bungie didn't go into the game with the mindset of: "We will balance these weapons poorly on purpose, as a joke" they just failed and while I wish the TU had done more to address balance in the sandbox, it didn't fundamentally change the balance of Vanilla Reach outside of maybe the NR. Again I'm sorry your favorite weapons got the short end of the stick balance wise, but that has nothing to do with the DMR or the TU
WerepyreND wrote:
So every other weapon is supposed to have something to counter besides the DMR? And in the original sandbox the AR and Magnum could go up against the DMR at close range, in the MCC you cannot. Bungie knew that. That is why they added Bloom for the DMR, Magnum, and needle rifle the bloom is not bad the only reason why people are upset is because they had to Pace their shots or fire slower to be more accurate, yes people could shoot faster and randomly get a every single shot and get the kill and people complaining that that was unfair? more than often you're going to get out play because they their shots or they're getting shot by two people or they are cycling out to take shots. Aiming with the weapon is too easy that is why I don't like it, not because people are better using it who cares! I do good with the TU settings was well! I just prefer the original settings for Halo Reach that is why I play invasion mostly on MCC. The only time I go on Slayer is to play with my friends. I'm upset because I can't use an AR or Magnum in any scenario against a DMR. Why even have the AR or Magnum in the game if they can't do anything? Or just make the AR do a little bit more damage. Because you're basically shooting marshmallows at them a full magazine cannot kill! Don't believe me try it. The Magnum does great by itself if you Pace your shots you can kill someone with full mag. The DMR you don't have to pace your shots at all fire as fast as you can? And you the win engagement? That takes skill? Fire as fast as you can with the aim assist wow amazing!
For starters no, the AR and Magnum could never go up against the DMR, not in vanilla and not in TU, the TU does not affect the minimum ttk of any of those 3 weapons, the bloom was a non-factor for the DMR vs the AR, while the DMR is just objectively better than the Magnum at everything except at point blank range. You don't need a "counter" for everything to have value in the sandbox like the traits I just mentioned in the post you just quoted.

People didn't like bloom for the same reason they didn't like spread in Halo 3, they don't like random chance being a factor in Halo's gunfights. There are a million other ways we can make shooting more difficult and rewarding that don't involve RNG.

I also don't know how many times I have to tell you this, but the AR/Magnum(and Repeater) are just badly balanced, it sucks, but it is just a fact of life in multiplayer games, get over it. Bungie didn't go into the game with the mindset of: "We will balance these weapons poorly on purpose, as a joke" they just failed and while I wish the TU had done more to address balance in the sandbox, it didn't fundamentally change the balance of Vanilla Reach outside of maybe the NR. Again I'm sorry your favorite weapons got the short end of the stick balance wise, but that has nothing to do with the DMR or the TU.
In OG reach you can use the assault rifle against a DMR in close range the fact that you don't know that is mind-boggling same thing for the pistol you're one of those people who always use the DMR because you didn't like the assault rifle because and how long it took can't win everything. I'm not boasting about how I am the best Halo Reach player I am sometimes above-average. And yes for the TU settings the ttk for the AR and Magnum are lower. There are 4 Halo games that have no bloom halo 3 and reach are considered the best halos to ever come out and guess what they have "bloom" reach should have stayed the way reach was it is if you have better aim then the other person will lose I have a friend who's not very good at Halo Reach but he loves it and he hates having lower bloom because it's too easy. Back in the day when I would set up custom Slayer lobbies who said that they didn't like the bloom either but they dealt with it and they got better it's a shame that if someone randomly shoots they COULD beat you but that was a rare case scenario.
Spoiler:
Show
Yeah and even then that was only at a range that the DMR isn’t even intended to be effective at. So spamming was the only option and if the shot placement got lucky then they just got lucky; it’s honestly no different than any other shooter when it comes to the way recoil works at random.
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