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[Locked] Why Do I have to unlock the Reach armour again?

OP X19Doug95

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AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
OK same for loot boxes then. If you replaced every fixed unlock with a random loot box with an item that you don't already own, I fail to see how that's any worse than what we have now. Again, if anything it dramatically increases your odds of getting the thing you actually want earlier.
You're just hung up on the term loot boxes.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
OK same for loot boxes then. If you replaced every fixed unlock with a random loot box with an item that you don't already own, I fail to see how that's any worse than what we have now. Again, if anything it dramatically increases your odds of getting the thing you actually want earlier.
You're just hung up on the term loot boxes.
RNG doesn't increase your odds though over all. While there is a slim chance you can get the item you are after right away the odds are against it. As I said they way it should have worked is we players should have been able to use the points we got on the exact item we wanted.
I understand not wanting to unlock everything again BUT it is a different game. That’s just the reality of it. It’s part of the progression system. If they handed it all out for free then what is your incentive to play?
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
OK same for loot boxes then. If you replaced every fixed unlock with a random loot box with an item that you don't already own, I fail to see how that's any worse than what we have now. Again, if anything it dramatically increases your odds of getting the thing you actually want earlier.
You're just hung up on the term loot boxes.
RNG doesn't increase your odds though over all. While there is a slim chance you can get the item you are after right away the odds are against it. As I said they way it should have worked is we players should have been able to use the points we got on the exact item we wanted.
Technically no it doesn't overall if your only goal is to collect every single armor piece no matter how insignificant. It will take the full number of levels to collect the full number of items. Technically true. However, if your goal is to attain the high end items which are typically buried at the end of a battle pass then the random loot box increases your odds of receiving the high end item you actually want faster. The odds are not against relative to the item being one of the last 5 items in the battle pass. The odds by comparison of what we have are more in favor of getting the thing you want early.

What they should have done was let anybody who had achievements on Reach 360 before it was released for TMCC and allow those people to be able to unlock all the items. And then done the same unlock system they had in Reach.
TheDonCJG wrote:
I understand not wanting to unlock everything again BUT it is a different game. That’s just the reality of it. It’s part of the progression system. If they handed it all out for free then what is your incentive to play?
To play the game as I remember it as me, the guy with a certain look. As it stands now I honestly am discouraged from playing. It's like why even bother if it's not representative of me. They turned the thing I liked into a job because I had already done it before.
TheDonCJG wrote:
I understand not wanting to unlock everything again BUT it is a different game. That’s just the reality of it. It’s part of the progression system. If they handed it all out for free then what is your incentive to play?
To play the game as I remember it as me, the guy with a certain look. As it stands now I honestly am discouraged from playing. It's like why even bother if it's not representative of me. They turned the thing I liked into a job because I had already done it before.
Please don't post multiple time in a row. If you need to add more information or quote other users, you can edit your last post. Thanks
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
Ok here's the deal id say it's cool to unlock all the armor but considering MCC already gave us the extra armor in the previous Halos I just can't understand why we would have to grind for Reach armor when we literally got for free the halo 2 anniversary special armors, halo 3, and Halo 4 armors. So yea it doesn't make sense. If you gonna make us grind make us grind for everything. It doesn't make sense to have people 100% start over just because it's reupdated version be what kind of excuse my French B.S. is that. Halo 3 and Halo 4 had unlockable armors and had a lvl up system why we do we have entirely different rank up system for Reach is beyyyoooond me in the words of Haha Davis from IG.
People didn't like the lack of guaranteed progression (ranks were based on skill and could be lowered/reset because of bugs). With the addition of Halo: Reach, making its armor unlockable was a logical choice (especially with all the praise the original game's system gets nowadays).
Yea, but that's no excuse for them to make all the past halo earnable armor for free but not make Reach free. If you're going to make us grind. Make us grind for everything. Don't half -Yoink- it.
But most of us hated that the previous Halo's just gave us the armors. So why just give us the reach stuff if the majority were asking to re-earn it. By simply just giving us the stuff would have been "half yoink it". No matter what they would have done there would be some players complaining. Just play the game and you will get the stuff. It's not like you have to do anything difficult to get the stuff.
[snip]
Why is it his even still being debated?

It doesn't take all that long to unlock it all.
And why have it all for free, unlocked? Is this how you feel about the achievements too?

Some people might not like this reality: most people enjoy the act of unlocking things.
Some people like loot boxes too. Maybe that's how they should have brought back the armor pieces. By your logic that's how the game should be designed.

This is being debated because there are opinions on both sides of this and it does taker longer than people are willing to play and are less likely to play specifically because of it. The grind you enjoy that keeps you playing is the thing that prevents me from playing more regularly. I want it all unlocked because I already unlocked it and put in my dues and feel robbed by being asked to do it again. I don't care about achievements because achievements are numbers, they are not the things I worked for in Reach.

What you're asking isn't why do I want everything for free; what you're asking is why do I want stuff I worked for.
You said 'The grind you enjoy that keeps you playing" except I never said I enjoy it personally. At the same time it doesn't mean I hate it.
I'm indifferent, and honestly don't understand why so many people hate it.

It's not the same game. It's a remastered version of a game. You still have all your stuff in the old game, this one is new. Everyone starts from the same place.
If you want to show off what you've unlocked in the old game to people, you still can.
This system shows everyone what they've done since Reach launched in MCC. It's arguably the most fair.

If anything, they could have added a small cosmetic to those who achieved Inheritor status in OG Reach, like what they plan for Infinite re: H5. Would have been a nice nod to those folks.

Anyhow, you shouldn't be playing the game only to unlock things. I play it because I enjoy the gameplay. When things unlock, I might use them, or I might not. If you just play the game because you enjoy it, you can stop worrying about all this.

Show me one person that likes loot boxes. And loot boxes have nothing to do with this conversation, everything in MCC is free to unlock, as it should be - and we should be thankful for that! They very well COULD have put a paid system in place, and didn't.
If you already owned the MCC on X1, you got the entire MP for free! They could have easily added a paid battle pass, and they didn't.

  • It's not the same game as the original. It's not just the 'backwards compatible' version. No other games ever have had remasters where everything is unlocked.
  • You aren't robbed of your unlocks. You still have your unlocks in the old game if you wanna show them off. People still play it.
  • It's not that long of a grind, in fact WAY less than OG.
  • The unlocks are free. MP was also free for existing X1 MCC owners.
  • Play for fun, because you enjoy the gameplay, not just for unlocks.
If you approach MCC Reach with these in mind, you'll probably have a better experience.

[Edit].
I noticed you also mentioned that because of this, you end up playing other games in the collection. That's fine I guess, but keep in mind you still earn XP when playing those, so even then you're making progress towards those 'dreaded' unlocks. Another reason that this 'grind' isn't really that bad.
Plus they're adding in challenges soon, so we'll have more ways to earn XP/unlocks, including campaign.
I'm going to have to tell just because it's a remastered game that doesn't mean its a different game. It is still the same game.
Is the campaign the same. Yes Is multiplayer still the same yes. Is Forge still the same Yes is theater still the same Yes is fire fight still the same Yes so it's the same game all they did was updated the graphics to make a little bit better and if you went and grinded all the way to the max on 360 but this time you don't want to play on your 360 and you want to play on your Xbox one you should have all your stuff there not have to earn it again especially with their process of upgrading. What they should do is link the MCC version compared to the previous Halos that are connected to your gamertag so in this case let's say you have unlocked everything in reach on Xbox 360 then all the stuff is for free on MCC if you have no history with reach at all then the process of upgrading is there.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
OK same for loot boxes then. If you replaced every fixed unlock with a random loot box with an item that you don't already own, I fail to see how that's any worse than what we have now. Again, if anything it dramatically increases your odds of getting the thing you actually want earlier.
You're just hung up on the term loot boxes.
Because with at least the current system your unlocks are not based on random luck which IS the worst way to earn ANYTHING in any video game. At least this way I know what I am working towards and when I will get it. On top of that this system does not use real money so most of the disadvantages of it are gone. Most games have this linear unlock system, whether they lay them out on a straight line is irrelevant if you still earn them in the same order anyway.
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
Ok here's the deal id say it's cool to unlock all the armor but considering MCC already gave us the extra armor in the previous Halos I just can't understand why we would have to grind for Reach armor when we literally got for free the halo 2 anniversary special armors, halo 3, and Halo 4 armors. So yea it doesn't make sense. If you gonna make us grind make us grind for everything. It doesn't make sense to have people 100% start over just because it's reupdated version be what kind of excuse my French B.S. is that. Halo 3 and Halo 4 had unlockable armors and had a lvl up system why we do we have entirely different rank up system for Reach is beyyyoooond me in the words of Haha Davis from IG.
People didn't like the lack of guaranteed progression (ranks were based on skill and could be lowered/reset because of bugs). With the addition of Halo: Reach, making its armor unlockable was a logical choice (especially with all the praise the original game's system gets nowadays).
Yea, but that's no excuse for them to make all the past halo earnable armor for free but not make Reach free. If you're going to make us grind. Make us grind for everything. Don't half -Yoink- it.
But most of us hated that the previous Halo's just gave us the armors. So why just give us the reach stuff if the majority were asking to re-earn it. By simply just giving us the stuff would have been "half yoink it". No matter what they would have done there would be some players complaining. Just play the game and you will get the stuff. It's not like you have to do anything difficult to get the stuff.
[snip]
Why is it his even still being debated?

It doesn't take all that long to unlock it all.
And why have it all for free, unlocked? Is this how you feel about the achievements too?

Some people might not like this reality: most people enjoy the act of unlocking things.
Some people like loot boxes too. Maybe that's how they should have brought back the armor pieces. By your logic that's how the game should be designed.

This is being debated because there are opinions on both sides of this and it does taker longer than people are willing to play and are less likely to play specifically because of it. The grind you enjoy that keeps you playing is the thing that prevents me from playing more regularly. I want it all unlocked because I already unlocked it and put in my dues and feel robbed by being asked to do it again. I don't care about achievements because achievements are numbers, they are not the things I worked for in Reach.

What you're asking isn't why do I want everything for free; what you're asking is why do I want stuff I worked for.
[snip]
  • It's not the same game as the original. It's not just the 'backwards compatible' version. No other games ever have had remasters where everything is unlocked.
  • You aren't robbed of your unlocks. You still have your unlocks in the old game if you wanna show them off. People still play it.
  • It's not that long of a grind, in fact WAY less than OG.
  • The unlocks are free. MP was also free for existing X1 MCC owners.
  • Play for fun, because you enjoy the gameplay, not just for unlocks.
If you approach MCC Reach with these in mind, you'll probably have a better experience.

[Edit].
I noticed you also mentioned that because of this, you end up playing other games in the collection. That's fine I guess, but keep in mind you still earn XP when playing those, so even then you're making progress towards those 'dreaded' unlocks. Another reason that this 'grind' isn't really that bad.
Plus they're adding in challenges soon, so we'll have more ways to earn XP/unlocks, including campaign.
I'm going to have to tell just because it's a remastered game that doesn't mean its a different game. It is still the same game.
Is the campaign the same. Yes Is multiplayer still the same yes. Is Forge still the same Yes is theater still the same Yes is fire fight still the same Yes so it's the same game all they did was updated the graphics to make a little bit better and if you went and grinded all the way to the max on 360 but this time you don't want to play on your 360 and you want to play on your Xbox one you should have all your stuff there not have to earn it again especially with their process of upgrading. What they should do is link the MCC version compared to the previous Halos that are connected to your gamertag so in this case let's say you have unlocked everything in reach on Xbox 360 then all the stuff is for free on MCC if you have no history with reach at all then the process of upgrading is there.
You are telling me that 60 FPS, no motion blur, upgraded 4k visuals is the same game?

Mario Kart is a terrible example of a remaster with supposedly everything unlocked - because it didn't have everything unlocked.
No other game that I know of has had a re-release with everything just unlocked for you.

Anyway, OG Reach took about 100 days of playing time to unlock it all, while MCC Reach takes around 100 hours.Big difference.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
OK same for loot boxes then. If you replaced every fixed unlock with a random loot box with an item that you don't already own, I fail to see how that's any worse than what we have now. Again, if anything it dramatically increases your odds of getting the thing you actually want earlier.
You're just hung up on the term loot boxes.
Because with at least the current system your unlocks are not based on random luck which IS the worst way to earn ANYTHING in any video game. At least this way I know what I am working towards and when I will get it. On top of that this system does not use real money so most of the disadvantages of it are gone. Most games have this linear unlock system, whether they lay them out on a straight line is irrelevant if you still earn them in the same order anyway.
It IS NOT the WORST way to earn ANYTHING if the OTHER OPTION is likely going to take LONGER to grind the thing you want.
There are two systems, A and B. You want item X.

System A gives 1 item at every level.
System A gives item X at level 100. It will take you exactly 100 levels to get item X.
System B gives you 1 of 100 random items, non-duplicates every level for 100 levels.
System B will give you item X no later than level 100. It might also give you item X on level 1. On average system B will give you item X well before level 100.

How is system B worse than system A when the thing that I want is item X? How does it benefit me to grind through 100 levels minimum when I might only have to grind 1 level, or 5 levels, or 99 levels? Are all those possibilities not shorter than level 100? At absolute worst luck ever the punishment of grinding is grinding... the same amount of levels as system A.
LethalQ wrote:
LethalQ wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
AshamanND wrote:
Big T Mac10,

[edit]I'm not sure if Mario kart is the best comparison - what exactly were the things that were unlocked? Modes, tracks etc? Pretty sure Reach in MCC lets you play any level you want right from the start, without having to beat a level first.

[/edit]Look, we're both fans of Halo, and we've both played a lot of the games. I'm glad we both love the series.
I appreciate your perspective on some of the things you mention - we're not gonna see eye to eye on the unlock system and I'm ok with that.

But seriously. You actually want MCC Loot boxes.
I don't even know what else to say.
OMG.
You: "No one can refute my claim."
Me: Easily refutes claim
You: "That doesn't count!"

No, it counts. Everything was locked in Mario Kart 8. Tracks, characters and parts. Deluxe unlocks the vast majority of it by default. It is literally the exact thing you insinuated has never happened in a remaster.

And why shouldn't I want loot boxes? If I'm going to get screwed by grinding out armor parts I don't want, why not increase my chance of getting the pieces I want earlier?
Tracks is like missions in Halo. They don't count. Honestly.
Parts (from my understanding) were still locked in Deluxe. Doesn't count.
Characters - OK, one part of this game had unlocks that were given. But not everything was unlocked, and that's my point.

I actually agree with you about getting armor parts I don't want too - the linear unlock system is dumb. The points should allow freedom of what to unlock. But having to unlock them, in my mind, isn't the issue (just the order).

If you want to die on the loot box hill, be my guest. People might have spent money on them in many games, but by and large the overall gaming community does not like them. Especially when randomized. Most people prefer playing and earning an unlock instead of paying for it. You're on the internet, you must know this, right?
lol I have nothing to lose by them adding loot boxes. That's my point. This system might as well be loot boxes to me and honestly I haven't heard why it would be a worse system than the one we have now. If the unlocks are all the exact same and all my character's gear are late pass unlocks then why wouldn't I want a gamble that I unlock them or some of them, earlier than the current system?
EDIT: You're conflating loot boxes with paid only loot boxes.
Paid loot boxes are the worst yes.

But even random 'free' loot boxes are entirely less satisfying than actually earning something through gameplay.

Loot boxes in any form are inferior.

The linear unlock system is definitely bad. Allowing for some type of choice in the spending of the Season Point would be much better.

Now, I will compromise on this loot box thing for one possibility.
If they gave us the choice of say 10 different things to unlock with our Season point within a certain tier, that would be good.
But also give us the choice to use that Season Point for a 'loot box' random opportunity to get something from a higher tier. But there would need to be an element of risk, perhaps there is also a chance that Season point spent on a loot box would yield nothing. At least there is a risk/reward involved now - but still giving us a guaranteed option to spend it on a known item. This system would require the ability to earn Season Points beyond tier 100, to account for people that gambled away their points.

But to switch to a pure loot box system - no, that's not going to happen.
If there's 100 things in a given pass and the thing I had previously grinded out is at level 96-100, as would be typical, why would I be better suited with a strict battlepass with each unlock being fixed as opposed to a loot box with a random item and a chance of the higher tiered item I had previously being rewarded earlier knowing that loot boxes and the strict rewards are unlocked at the same interval?
I dunno, neverrmind.
I don't think I articulated my idea properly, and right now I don't have the time to try to re-word it.

We're not gonna see eye to eye on this, but know that the Halo community would be WAY more upset with some type of loot box system.
Well then they know how I feel about the trash system the game has now.
Definitely no to "loot boxes" those are hella lame. This system isn't that great either but it's not as bad as loot boxes. They should have at least let us get which ever item we wanted with our points versus only being able to use them on one item at a time, the points are really pointless as they are now. But it doesn't take that long to unlock everything.
I can't believe I'm reading that someone wants lootboxes.... So many people have been fighting the industry to get that crap out of here to the point of governments taking action against them.
Well, now you understand the suffering that is the battlepass in my eyes. It's just as bad.
LOL the suffering.... No need to be that dramatic. Especially how easy it is to get the items. It's also not really a battle pass IMO. No money is involved at all. There has been plenty of time time to get the xp to get everything and they even said players will always be able to go back and unlock the stuff IF by chance they weren't able to this "season"...how ever long these seasons are going to be which apparently pretty long since there hasn't been any word on when the next "season" is even going to start.
[snip]
It IS NOT the WORST way to earn ANYTHING if the OTHER OPTION is likely going to take LONGER to grind the thing you want.
There are two systems, A and B. You want item X.

System A gives 1 item at every level.
System A gives item X at level 100. It will take you exactly 100 levels to get item X.
System B gives you 1 of 100 random items, non-duplicates every level for 100 levels.
System B will give you item X no later than level 100. It might also give you item X on level 1. On average system B will give you item X well before level 100.

How is system B worse than system A when the thing that I want is item X? How does it benefit me to grind through 100 levels minimum when I might only have to grind 1 level, or 5 levels, or 99 levels? Are all those possibilities not shorter than level 100? At absolute worst luck ever the punishment of grinding is grinding... the same amount of levels as system A.
You are incorrectly assuming that the odds of getting each item would be equal. That's highly unlikely, based on how 343 did the H5 reqs.

Also, what if all you really wanted was stuff that unlocks in the first 20 tiers. With a loot box system - you might be waiting until you finish all 100 to get them. Not ideal for everyone.

Aside from that - getting something randomly 'gifted' to you from a box you open cheapens it drastically. People will look at you wearing item 'x' and say "oh great, they got lucky in their box thingy" instead of saying "that person put in the time and deserves the reward they got".
AshamanND wrote:
You are incorrectly assuming that the odds of getting each item would be equal. That's highly unlikely, based on how 343 did the H5 reqs.
Aside from that - getting something randomly 'gifted' to you from a box you open cheapens it drastically. People will look at you wearing item 'x' and say "oh great, they got lucky in their box thingy" instead of saying "that person put in the time and deserves the reward they got".
It doesn't matter if they're equal, the odds of getting the late level item is still higher than than waiting to level 100. Even if the odds are a fraction of a fraction of a percent it's still faster than system A. This is math.
And no, you earn the loot box just as much as you earn the dumb thing in the battle pass. It doesn't cheapen it drastically. The only thing it does is build up brief suspense and excitement.
And if I saw people in Reach having the thing I want I don't say "That person put in the time and deserves the reward they got." Quite the opposite. Instead, I see that and I say "That trash kid didn't earn that. All he did was play like crap for several hours. He didn't earn a thing. My grind for that was ten times harder and I did it ten years ago. Where is my reward. That kid is trash. I'm gonna report that no life." And you know why that reaction comes out? BECAUSE I ALREADY EARNED IT YEARS AGO. I just get angry because that's just more proof that I got cheated out of the thing I already had while some Fortnite punk is just given the thing because he was still in diapers when Reach came out. So no, I'm not buying that nonsense about him eArNiNg it. If he wants to earn it he can sack up and earn it in OG Reach. I just angry because I already earned it and have nothing to show for it. That's a way worse feeling than thinking they lucked out from a loot box because it just reminds me how much I got screwed by TMCC.
AshamanND wrote:
You are telling me that 60 FPS, no motion blur, upgraded 4k visuals is the same game?
What story changes did they make to reach? What balance changes did they make to player movement, HP, weapons damage, RoF, etc. for TMCC?
Quote:
Mario Kart is a terrible example of a remaster with supposedly everything unlocked - because it didn't have everything unlocked.
No other game that I know of has had a re-release with everything just unlocked for you.
Mario Kart didn't have everything unlocked. It's still better than Halo Reach though, because it had more unlocked than Reach, which isn't even locked, it's blocked. XP caps? That's a barrier actively preventing you from gaining items that you probably already earned years ago.
Quote:
Anyway, OG Reach took about 100 days of playing time to unlock it all, while MCC Reach takes around 100 hours.Big difference.
Less droppings in the punch bowl are still droppings in the punch bowl. And that's what this is. I was happy for Reach to come back, but this is a dropping in the punch bowl that makes me not want to play it.
Quote:
"That trash kid didn't earn that. All he did was play like crap for several hours. He didn't earn a thing. My grind for that was ten times harder and I did it ten years ago. Where is my reward. That kid is trash. I'm gonna report that no life."
If you're mad at how the game is, no reason to take it out on the community - that's just a terrible attitude.
MCC is supposed to be "re-living" the experience of Halo....so you should have to re-earn the stuff. Just like how we had to re-earn the achievements. It was so disappointing when I saw the H3 armors just there. They should have been re-earned as well. I get why some don't like re-earning the stuff but just be glad it doesn't take much to do it. But I am pretty sure next season how to unlock stuff will be different as they said changes are going to be made. Hopefully we can use the points as we want instead of a linear style system.
AshamanND wrote:
Quote:
"That trash kid didn't earn that. All he did was play like crap for several hours. He didn't earn a thing. My grind for that was ten times harder and I did it ten years ago. Where is my reward. That kid is trash. I'm gonna report that no life."
If you're mad at how the game is, no reason to take it out on the community - that's just a terrible attitude.
It's the same situation you're describing when you said "oh great, they got lucky in their box thingy." So why would you be upset about the guy who got lucky off a loot box (an unsubstantiated claim) but not be upset about the bad battlepass system? I was only going the the emotional response you proposed and in the theoretical situation those reactions should be treated from the same perspective. If you don't want to do one thing because it harbors this potential negative response, you should also not do the other thing that invokes a more negative response either.

Also, I think you're downplaying the extremely thinly veiled animosity toward the game in that post.
AshamanND wrote:
Quote:
"That trash kid didn't earn that. All he did was play like crap for several hours. He didn't earn a thing. My grind for that was ten times harder and I did it ten years ago. Where is my reward. That kid is trash. I'm gonna report that no life."
If you're mad at how the game is, no reason to take it out on the community - that's just a terrible attitude.
It's the same situation you're describing when you said "oh great, they got lucky in their box thingy." So why would you hold it against the the guy who got lucky off a loot box (an unsubstantiated claim) but not hold the bad system against the guy? I was only going the the emotional response you proposed and in the theoretical situation those reactions should be treated equally. If you don't want to do one thing because it harbors this potential negative response, you should also not do the other thing that invokes a more negative response either.

Also, I think you're downplaying the extremely thinly veiled animosity toward the game in that post.
Compare and contrast two quotes:
"oh great, they got lucky in their box thingy."

"That trash kid didn't earn that. All he did was play like crap for several hours. He didn't earn a thing. My grind for that was ten times harder and I did it ten years ago. Where is my reward. That kid is trash. I'm gonna report that no life."

My quote holds nothing against the person who got lucky. It's an observation that they got lucky.
Your quote demeans and insults the person. Followed by an attack and action against them.

These aren't even remotely close to the same reaction.

You also conveniently ignored my point about the player that might want to unlock items currently in tier 20, that with a loot box system, might not unlock until tier 100.
Loot boxes are never better.

Quote:
I just angry because I already earned it and have nothing to show for it.
Not true - it's still there in OG Reach. Stop forgetting that.
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