Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection

[Locked] Why Do I have to unlock the Reach armour again?

OP X19Doug95

5/6/2020

Big T Mac10

Marine - Silver

And a random system would give them something random. Most people really only care about a handful of late tier items. If people want just lots of items for their spartans, well good news! You'd get the exact same amount of items as you would if it were static.
What you're talking about at that point is that maybe they want a low tier item that happens to be at level 5 of 100 and they might end up getting a the wrong low tier item at level 84 of 100. Well the actual difference between items like that is random between those spots anyway and of this extreme niche of people, half of them are happy they got the level 84 filler instead of the level 5 filler because of all the filler items half of them prefer the other one. Either way, that only further reinforces the fact that players should be able to choose the item or choose the box at each level. More proof my half hearted sytem is better than 343's.

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See Helioskrill.

Why do I constantly have to repeat myself to you? The problem with that is that it had long been established as a point of ego and then suddenly got ripped to take away that ego stroke hence why people got upset. The people who genuinely liked the Helioskrill for aesthetic reasons rather than status reasons were upset that they busted their backside only for 343 to troll them by saying 'We could have done this at any time but decided to ultimately make you suffer for nothing lawlz.'
What's wrong with this situation is that I already overcame the barrier YEARS AGO. Now be honest, would you be upset if at the start of June they locked all your unlocks again and changed the system even if they made it a little easier nerxt go round? OK then.
People like to unlock things, sure. And yes, everyone has some amount of vanity to them. That's also true. However the people that are going to complain and fight over this demand for status instead of earned boxes because they don't want others to have it from a fair loot box are beyond the pale. It's a cosmetic item not a badge of honor. If they want a badge so they feel special give them a separate badge. That's what the banners were for anyway.

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I guarantee people would be LESS motivated

Well unless they were watching them in person unlocking it they wouldn't know what level they got it, so what you're talking about is paranoia. And on the flip side, in a static pass, if one sees someone else at a much higher level than them, they very likely think less of that person bc they assume they have no life job or responsibility and just live in their mother's basement playing Halo all day. And unless he goes 30-0 people are also going to have that attitude reinforced with the addendum that he's trash. So really you've traded paranoia for hostility.

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Loot boxes are exactly that. Giving stuff out,

REALLY? OK, under everything that has been said here,if you don't gain a level, how many boxes are you going to open? What if you gain 5 levels? 10? Is there a direct correlation?
OK well if there's a correlation then you're wrong. Flat-out wrong.

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It's still in OG Reach.

Where it sits dead and unusable by virtue that this version killed it. Again, if you would be upset if come June all your unlocks were reset and you had to start from scratch again. Would you?

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Once again If I want something from tier 30, I have NO IDEA when I would get it in a loot box system. That's just terrible. There's a good chance I won't get it until much later than I should..

So then once again letting people choose each level whether they want the item or the box and share the same identical loot pool is superior in all ways except for narcissists.

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Nope sorry. Putting up rewards for specific objectives isn't narcissistic or elitist. It's actually how most games work and most of the world works.

No need to apologize to me at this point. I'm well aware you don't understand the terms and topics we're talking about. Give them badges. Don't lock the good cosmetics behind timewasting. You're not talking about skill (which is a big reason why your real world argument falls apart unless you're bragging about incompetence in management), you're talking about time wasted grinding. You're not talking about reserving items specifically for people who put up a 5 KD ratio and had more sniper headshots than deaths per match. At the very least that is an accomplish worth recognition. There's proof of skill there. What you're talking about is rewarding a select group of ne'erdowells for not having jobs.

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This makes you sound kinda entitled. Just play the game, you'll get them.

I'm entitled for wanting the things that I already earned at ten times the grind that were effectively taken away from me? That makes me entitled? OK, I hope they reset and relock everything at the beginning of June. If you don't agree you will sound entitled as well. Also, you sound entitled if loot box only option bothers you that much too. Just play the game you'll get them.

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I tried to compromise with you

No you didn't. You saw a good idea that took zero effort and tried to mutate it into a different version of ego-stroking narcissism.
If you were to actually compromise, you would have agreed to the system I proposed earlier without qualifiers as that was a perfectly fair 50/50 split. And you couldn't agree to it, so don't pretend you're taking the high road. You want to just make sure I can't get the things I already earned earlier any faster than you can now so that you can feel good about being "special" rather than just liking the item for what it is like myself.

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RNG is never better than linear unlocks, as a whole.

lol well hate to break it to ya, but "as a whole" just totally negates any merit to the words that preceded it. We're not talking about as a whole, in the entirety of the universe and its history. We're talking about this very specific instance based on the systems stated, the one where you gave up and said, "Well you're objectively right but feelings!" That is the only RNG v. linearity up for debate here.

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Nameplates, Emblems, should these all just be randomly given out too?

Those were created specifically fill that gap for ego stroking and recognition. That's why they existed in the first place. Those are the exact reason cosmetics shouldn't be locked at all much less in a linear no life battle pass. You just slaughtered your own argument.
Big oofs on that one, bud.

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5/6/2020

HC SOlO

Marine - Silver

Big T Mac10 wrote:
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I'm entitled for wanting the things that I already earned at ten times the grind that were effectively taken away from me?
You just have it wrong. Its not 10 x harder Its 10 x easier. You just won't hear it. There is no grind. Its all in your head.

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5/6/2020

AshamanND

ODST - Bronze

Big T Mac10,

Why do you think that anytime something is earned, it turns people into narcissistic monsters?
Why do you assume people that look at high level players think of them negatively?
check out this thread and tell me how many people there are being negative to those that made it to 152.
If there were a lot of people that felt the same as you about this system, OG Reach wouldn't be 'dead' and they'd still be playing it. I think you're in the minority here.
Saying "I want" three times in the same sentence starts to come across as entitled. Doesn't mean you are, but it starts to come across that way.
If they reset all the progress tomorrow and all the items for MCC tomorrow (or in June), that'd be silly. They never did that in OG H3, Reach or H4. It's not a good analogy.
If they did it in 5-10 years - by releasing a new version of the whole thing (this would also be silly at this point, but I'm playing along) it'd be fine. Because it's a new game. It would have new features. MCC would still exist with all the unlocks.
RNG is never better than linear unlocks - AS A WHOLE FOR THE ENTIRE ARMORY COLLECTION. Does that make this clearer for you?
I'm asking this again, because it's important. Why do you think that anytime something is earned, it turns people into narcissistic monsters to stroke egos?

Believe it or not, it's possible to feel pride in an accomplishment, without thinking poorly of others for it. BUT, if you diminish that accomplishment by giving away that reward to anyone by chance, that honestly sucks.

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5/7/2020

Big T Mac10

Marine - Silver

AshamanND wrote:

Why do you think that anytime something is earned, it turns people into narcissistic monsters?

I'm not interested in answering childish questions like this. You know well and good that's not what we're talking about. Loot boxes and their contents are earned too. It's not about earning items, it's about people like yourself who try to prevent others from attaining those items because they resent people getting them quicker than they did. For people who want to show off time spent playing they created banners specifically for those accomplishments. There's a reason all the other games like CSGO and OW don't force a player to grind all the cosmetics without an alternative avenue towards getting them. There's also a reason all the other games don't take away gear from players as well...

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Why do you assume people that look at high level players think of them negatively?
check out this thread and tell me how many people there are being negative to those that made it to 152.

You mean a thread dedicated to people who find great pride and personal accomplishment in max leveling are positive about the experience? Shocking.

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If there were a lot of people that felt the same as you about this system, OG Reach wouldn't be 'dead' and they'd still be playing it. I think you're in the minority here.

That makes less than zero sense. The game is already dead so anybody who want their old gear couldn't do anything about it if they tried. That's like jabbing giant holes in the bottom of a bucket and claiming, "Well, if the bucket was really that good it would hold the water regardless. I don't think the bucket is as popular as you claim."

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Saying "I want" three times in the same sentence starts to come across as entitled. Doesn't mean you are, but it starts to come across that way.

And not understanding that loot boxes are not given out for free despite being told repeatedly makes you sound like an elitist who just wants to make sure he can take whatever prestigious self-importance attributed to the items and lord it over others because if it was anything other than exactly that, you wouldn't care if others got the items sooner.

Also, hard to be entitled when one has already earned those items at ten times the grind. It sounds more like asking for respect for someone who already paid their dues.

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If they reset all the progress tomorrow and all the items for MCC tomorrow (or in June), that'd be silly. They never did that in OG H3, Reach or H4. It's not a good analogy.

lol enough excuses. They didn't have a battle pass either. They never locked previous cosmetics in TMCC either. No more squirming. It's a binary question; yes or no? Answer the question.

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RNG is never better than linear unlocks - AS A WHOLE FOR THE ENTIRE ARMORY COLLECTION. Does that make this clearer for you?

Now you're not even arguing any of the same points. You're literally just trying to shout this phrase at a different point so as to claim it counts for the original point when it does not.
Halo 5's loot system stinks because it is filled consumable items that are infinite. For that reason, getting cosmetic items are not guaranteed because you're dealing with probability with replacement, meaning your odds of completion are never finite.

The system that has been offered, same exact item pool, no duplicates, would benefit more, not all, but more, people getting the items they want sooner overall because most people want the nicer, prettier late tier items. 343 knows this, that's why they stuck them at the end of the pass.

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I'm asking this again, because it's important. Why do you think that anytime something is earned, it turns people into narcissistic monsters to stroke egos?

You can keep asking til you turn blue; it doesn't legitimize your question.

Earning something is fine. Trying to prevent others from attaining it sooner is not.
Loot box prizes are earned.

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Believe it or not, it's possible to feel pride in an accomplishment, without thinking poorly of others for it. BUT, if you diminish that accomplishment by giving away that reward to anyone by chance, that honestly sucks.

You mean like taking away one's cosmetics and then sticking them into an easier battle pass but forcing them to grind it again? The first good point you made.

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5/7/2020

AshamanND

ODST - Bronze

It's not a childish question. Everytime I point out that people should be recognized for their accomplishments, you hold them up as narcissistic. Why?
Are you of the belief that everyone should always get a merit badge? Or should we reward time and dedication appropriately? It's not evil.

You just demonstrated that you have no idea how the Halo 5 req system works.

Loot boxes are not prizes earned.
They are boxes earned, with random contents, which hold no more value.

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5/7/2020

Big T Mac10

Marine - Silver

AshamanND wrote:
You just demonstrated that you have no idea how the Halo 5 req system works.

Loot boxes are not prizes earned.
They are boxes earned, with random contents, which hold no more value.

How is that exactly? Explain yourself.

Loot boxes are earned. In the system proposed loot boxes would be the reward when you hit a level. They are not handed out randomly. The contents do not lose or gain "no more value."
You didn't answer the questions above.

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5/7/2020

AshamanND

ODST - Bronze

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Also, hard to be entitled when one has already earned those items at ten times the grind. It sounds more like asking for respect for someone who already paid their dues.

So you acknowledge this grind is drastically less. Good. Your respect lives on in your service record of OG Halo Reach.

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You mean like taking away one's cosmetics and then sticking them into an easier battle pass but forcing them to grind it again?

No one took anything away. It's a new game, not OG Reach. No one ever took away items in OG reach, H4, or H3. You'd have a leg to stand on if they took away everyone's MCC stuff. But they didn't, and they won't.

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lol enough excuses. They didn't have a battle pass either. They never locked previous cosmetics in TMCC either. No more squirming. It's a binary question; yes or no? Answer the question.

Honestly, I didn't think anyone needed to answer this question - as it is painfully obvious, but since you seem so upset about it, I'll help you out. Did H3 reset people's armor once unlocked? Did Reach reset people's armories, 4-5 years into the game? Did Halo 4 reset people's items? No. MCC is not going to do that. Your analogy is silly. But if they did, everyone would be upset including myself (are you happy I answered your irrelevant question?). But it's not the same thing as re-releasing a game, nearly a decade later, with everyone starting from scratch. Don't ever pretend that resetting MCC progress in June 2020 would be the same.
It would only be the same thing as resetting everyone's OG Reach progress in say 2012 - which they didn't do.

Would you be upset if you bought a DVD movie, and then a few years later the distributors come to your house and took it away and told you to buy it again on DVD? Yup. Would you be upset if you bought a DVD movie, but then 10 years later Blu-ray comes out, and the movie is released, and *gasp* you need to buy it again if you want the Blue-ray? Maybe, but you'd be silly to be angry about that. The DVD still works, you can still watch it, yeah it doesn't look as nice, but it's still there. No one is forcing you to buy the Blue-ray, and no one is taking away your DVD.

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Halo 5's loot system stinks because it is filled consumable items that are infinite. For that reason, getting cosmetic items are not guaranteed because you're dealing with probability with replacement, meaning your odds of completion are never finite.

Go educate yourself about the req system, I don't have time to. But you're wrong. Cosmetics are always guaranteed when opening the appropriate boxes.

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You can keep asking til you turn blue; it doesn't legitimize your question.

Earning something is fine. Trying to prevent others from attaining it sooner is not.

Loot box prizes are earned.

Not preventing anyone from earning things. Just trying to provide clear requirements for how to obtain specific items.
Loot boxes, while earned at specific intervals under your proposal, still hold random contents. You earned the right to get a box, but have no idea what is in it. The item you receive is not transparent, and you have no knowledge or control of its contents. The general concept of 'contents' might be earned by way of the box being earned, but in no way did you specifically earn that specific item. It was randomly generated and given to you.

Now I understand that the following example is not perfect, but play along, if you will.

Lots of employers give out gifts to employees on their milestone work anniversaries. Really all you need to do is keep going to work and not get fired. For many jobs, that's not hard. So let's call this a time commitment and not too much of a merit achievement.
Let's say after 5 years you get a small bonus. After ten years you get a nice watch. After 15 years, you get a four week paid vacation, with extra four weeks paid time off for it.

Now let's say the company changes the system, so that someone who works only 5 years might randomly get that 4 week paid vacation. Then after year 6 they decide they don't wanna work there anymore, and move on somewhere else? They don't spend the time and go through the whole 15 year system and 'unlock' all the rewards.
How is this a good system? How would the people that have worked 15 years feel? If they feel upset does this make them narcissists?
(Maybe my prizes/rewards aren't the best examples, but you can replace them with any items that increase in value and get the same result).

So if someone earns the haunted helmet after 10 multiplayer matches, how is that fair for the people that don't get it right away? It's better to have a level playing field, where everyone is under the same outcomes. I know, under a loot box system, even the people that don't earn it right away, would still earn it sooner than under no loot system. But the loot box system creates more inequality.

Scaled rewards for scaled time (or performance in some cases) are appropriate.

Putting an unlock behind a time-played barrier does not turn the people that earned it into egotistical jerks.

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5/7/2020

Big T Mac10

Marine - Silver

AshamanND wrote:
So you acknowledge this grind is drastically less. Good.

I never said it wasn't. The only person who claimed anyone ever said different is the troll that stalks and harrasses me.

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Your respect lives on in your service record of OG Halo Reach.

So they killed the respect then. Agreed

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No one took anything away. It's a new game, not OG Reach.

So then if you upgrade from an Xbox to a One X should you expect to have your progress wiped as well?

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You'd have a leg to stand on if they took away everyone's MCC stuff.

You're absolutely wrong and you've killed your own argument. They didn't take away all my stuff in Halo 3 and 4 on TMCC. I still have access to all my stuff in those games. The only game my gear has been taken away from me in TMCC is Reach.

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...if they did, everyone would be upset including myself (are you happy I answered your irrelevant question?)..

It is quite relevant seeing as how Reach is the only game in the series so far on TMCC that has been reset. None of the progress in the other games was reset. I kept all my stuff in the other games. Why not the same for Reach?

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It would only be the same thing as resetting everyone's OG Reach progress in say 2012 - which they didn't do.

And they didn't do it for the other Halo games in 2014 with the release of TMCC, 2015, 16, 17, or 18 so I don't see why they decided to start with Reach.

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No one is forcing you to buy the Blue-ray, and no one is taking away your DVD.

I would be angry if they disabled the online DVD features and told me I have to unlock them on the Blu Ray version by watching the same movie 150 times before I can get back those online features. Certainly. You wouldn't?

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Go educate yourself about the req system, I don't have time to. But you're wrong.

You have the time to repeat nonsense to me so you have the time to answer the question. You cherry picked a small portion of the req system.

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Not preventing anyone from earning things. Just trying to provide clear requirements for how to obtain specific items.

You're trying to prevent me, someone who has already earned the items btw, from earning them again a faster way through loot boxes than you earned them. You don't lose anything by letting me attain them through a loot box during my battle pass progress, do you? No. Me getting the item sooner doesn't take the item away from you. The only thing that may take a hit is your sense of elitism because the value in the item to you is that I can't have it without grinding again. That is selfish, narcissistic behavior from conceited egomaniacs trying to hold on to some perverse sense of power and status.

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Loot boxes, while earned at specific intervals under your proposal, still hold random contents.

And the item inside is earned whether it is a nice or lame thing or low tier or high tier. It's truly that simple.Did you earn the box? Then you earned the item. Any other opinion on the subject is born of jealousy.Quite petty jealousty for that matter.

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You earned the right to get a box, but have no idea what is in it. The item you receive is not transparent, and you have no knowledge or control of its contents.

None of that changes the fact that the content of the box is earned.

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The general concept of 'contents' might be earned by way of the box being earned, but in no way did you specifically earn that specific item.

The random item was earned by earning the box. It does not matter if you or I knew what was inside; it was earned.

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It was randomly generated and given to you.

It was given as a reward for accomplishing the task given. Therefore, it was earned.

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Lots of employers give out gifts to employees on their milestone work anniversaries. Really all you need to do is keep going to work and not get fired. For many jobs, that's not hard. So let's call this a time commitment and not too much of a merit achievement.
Let's say after 5 years you get a small bonus. After ten years you get a nice watch. After 15 years, you get a four week paid vacation, with extra four weeks paid time off for it.

Now let's say the company changes the system, so that someone who works only 5 years might randomly get that 4 week paid vacation. Then after year 6 they decide they don't wanna work there anymore, and move on somewhere else?

Your analogy already falls apart on three critical points:

Unless it is in your contract you are not owed anything as a bonus for working there. Being upset over it is entitlement or jealousy, maybe even justified but still entitlement/jealousy.
That is probability with replacement. You have changed the rules so that everything reset. If they changed the rules to be random and you are no longer guaranteed to ever receive each item one of the intervals then that is probability with replacement. If they changed the rules but you are still guaranteed each bonus as you hit one of the milestones, meaning that come hell or high water so long as you get to year 15 if you didn't get the vacation time by then you're guaranteed it now then that is probability without replacement, which is what we are talking about here, which also would be fine.
No one gives permanent extra vacation days as a gift. That's insane and doesn't happen. That's not a Christmas bonus. That's something in your contract.

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So if someone earns the haunted helmet after 10 matches, how is that fair?

Bc they are not prevented from getting it, they are just not lucky enough to get it as early.

Don't pretend like you care about fairness. If this were about things being fair MY GEAR WOULD ALREADY BE UNLOCKED BECAUSE I EARNED IT FAIR AND SQUARE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

You don't get to pull the fair card without pulling the surrender card.

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It's better to have a level playing field

Loot boxes are a level playing field. No one is at an inherent advantage or disadvantage. That's an equality same as a linear, static unlock system. The outcomes will be different and arbitrary, but everyone plays by the same rules so it's an equality.

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where everyone is under the same outcomes.

It's not better for the majority. Majority would benefit from items they desire being given to them sooner and the current tier rewards and this loot system would benefit more ppl because more ppl get more of what they want earlier, especially with a prior mixed system.

What you're referring to is your understanding of equity, the equality of outcome, that everyone will get unlocks at the same interval. But you don't actually want that either, bc equality of outcome would all people getting all the items no matter how much time is spent. What you want is classism. You have the means to waste time grinding so you want to lord over others with cosmetics someone like me already had because it makes you feel better about yourself that even someone else doesn't have it.

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under a loot box system, even the people that don't earn it right away, would still earn it sooner than under no loot system. But the loot box system creates more inequality.

Nope. Already explained. A sense of unfairness is driven by jealousy.

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Scaled rewards for scaled time are appropriate.

But not when it comes to someone who already did the work like me, right? Forgot that bit eh?

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Putting an unlock behind a time-played barrier does not turn the people that earned it into egotistical jerks.

No but those people trying to make sure someone like me can't have it sooner makes them egotistical jerks.

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5/7/2020

AshamanND

ODST - Bronze

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You're absolutely wrong and you've killed your own argument. They didn't take away all my stuff in Halo 3 and 4 on TMCC. I still have access to all my stuff in those games. The only game my gear has been taken away from me in TMCC is Reach.

You SPECIFICALLY asked me if they reset the progress in June would I be upset? I assume you meant reset our MCC progress. I responded by telling you they never would do that. They never did that in the original games. Stop moving the goal posts. It's shifty.
Your question of "if they reset all the MCC progress would I be upset?", remains an irrelevant question.
Next.

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The only person who claimed anyone ever said different is the troll that stalks and harrasses me.

That's isn't happening here, with me or anyone else. Not on the forums anyway, I can't speak for your DMs.

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So then if you upgrade from an Xbox to a One X should you expect to have your progress wiped as well?

This makes no sense. Explain, if you want.

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You have the time to repeat nonsense to me so you have the time to answer the question. You cherry picked a small portion of the req system.

Try again.
We're talking about permanent unlocks in MCC. Why on earth would I talk about consumable unlocks in H5?
H5 has permanent unlocks as well. There are tons of cosmetics to earn. You are guaranteed permanent unlocks in the packs. Look it up.
You tried to say it is probability with replacement. It is not. We're talking about permanent unlocks. Please bear in mind the word 'permanent'.
Go read about the req system, or watch some LTN videos or something, and then come back and admit you were wrong about it.
Also, what question?

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The only thing that may take a hit is your sense of elitism because the value in the item to you is that I can't have it without grinding again. That is selfish, narcissistic behavior from conceited egomaniacs.

Again with the elitist and narcissistic talk. If you think everyone here, who all think we should all be working at the same pace and with no random unfairness, are all narcissists, I can't help you.

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Your analogy already falls apart on three critical points:

Unless it is in your contract you are not owed anything as a bonus for working there. Being upset over it is entitlement or jealousy, maybe even justified but still entitlement/jealousy.

That is probability with replacement. You have changed the rules so that everything reset. If they changed the rules to be random and you are no longer guaranteed to ever receive each item one of the intervals then that is probability with replacement. If they changed the rules but you are still guaranteed each bonus as you hit one of the milestones, meaning that come hell or high water so long as you get to year 15 if you didn't get the vacation time by then you're guaranteed it now then that is probability without replacement, which is what we are talking about here, which also would be fine.

No one gives permanent extra vacation days as a gift. That's insane and doesn't happen. That's not a Christmas bonus. That's something in your contract.

The companies that have these rewards, have HR policies that lay them out.
Sorry, you inferred what kind of probability it was, to be fair I never specified. But to be clear, it is without replacement. So if you got the vacation after 5 years, you don't get it in the next draw, or the next.
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If they changed the rules but you are still guaranteed each bonus as you hit one of the milestones, meaning that come hell or high water so long as you get to year 15 if you didn't get the vacation time by then you're guaranteed it now then that is probability without replacement, which is what we are talking about here, which also would be fine.
No it would NOT be fine.
You are also ignoring my VERY IMPORTANT point about the people that DON'T unlock all the rewards. They will either be unfairly disadvantaged (by not having luck in the draws) or unfairly advantaged (by having the luck in the draws). Not everyone is going to stay 15 years, and not everyone is going to unlock all 100 tiers. If you are going to propose a system, it has to work better for everyone, NOT JUST YOU.
Did I say permanent extra vacation days? Nope. Once again you inferred. It was that the vacation is paid, and for that year, you get that bonus paid time off during the paid for vacation, on top of whatever normal vacation weeks you have. These types of incentives DO exist.

My analogy holds up brilliantly, I think.

Next.

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If this were about things being fair MY GEAR WOULD ALREADY BE UNLOCKED BECAUSE I EARNED IT FAIR AND SQUARE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

Didn't we establish earlier that we only wanted to discuss how to unlock gear - not if it should be unlocked for all, or people that had certain achievements/unlocks to transfer over?
Let's focus. And remember, it's still in your OG Reach.

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What you're referring to is your understanding of equity, the equality of outcome, that everyone will get unlocks at the same interval. But you don't actually want that either, bc equality of outcome would all people getting all the items no matter how much time is spent. What you want is classism. You have the means to waste time grinding so you want to lord over others with cosmetics someone like me already had because it makes you feel better about yourself that even someone else doesn't have it.

You'll never convince me, or anyone, that being rewarded for your time spent is the same as classism.

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But not when it comes to someone who already did the work like me, right? Forgot that bit eh?

Your reward is not gone. It's still there. We've established this. We've also previously established that we didn't need to talk about it anymore, and we were going to focus on HOW to unlock in the MCC. Forgot THAT bit eh? But you keep coming back to how sad you are that your gear isn't here.

Seems to me you might be jaded and angry by the fact you don't have your gear. That anger might be what is making you put forth the idea of loot boxes as a 'better' solution than the current one, because it will benefit you. Everyone else and their motivations, feelings, and experience be damned.
Stop being so selfish, and see the random loot boxes for what they are. Unfair, unrewarding, and worse than the current system.

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No but those people trying to make sure someone like me can't have it sooner makes them egotistical jerks.

Nope, it makes them want all of us to progress at the same pace, based on our own input into THIS game.

If you want to continue, try to stay focused on what we agreed - the system of HOW to unlock items in MCC. Because we established the first two other points from my earlier post weren't needing to be discussed anymore. The reason they don't need to be discussed anymore, is because we will not see a system where everything is unlocked, nor a system that grants you all your previous items. We CAN however potentially influence 343's decision on HOW we get the unlocks moving forward.

So stick to that and we won't be wasting our time.

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5/7/2020

Big T Mac10

Marine - Silver

I SPECIFICALLY asked something relevant to you since you don't have any stakes in the argument. The only game that has taken gear away from me in TMCC is Reach. Not 3 or 4, just Reach.

AshamanND wrote:
Your question of "if they reset all the MCC progress would I be upset?", remains an irrelevant question.Next.

It's only deemed irrelevant because you don't like the fact it negates your argument. Next.

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That's isn't happening here, with me or anyone else. Not on the forums anyway, I can't speak for your DMs.

HC SOlO has. It started over a month ago. I left because of his constant trolling and harassment. The day I come back he was at it again.

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This makes no sense

I'm just employing the same iT's A dIfFeReNt GaMe logic back to you.

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We're talking about permanent unlocks in MCC. Why on earth would I talk about consumable unlocks in H5?

Can you earn a req pack that is literally nothing but permanent cosmetics? No? THEN YOU'RE WRONG. As long as your odds of getting a permanent unlock are impacted at all by replenish able consumables it is a probability WITH replacement. Now unless they changed it, the number of permenent unlocks could be changed depending on how many boosters you got instead. That's at least how it used to be. And if that's not your problem with it, then why are you crying about it?

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Again with the elitist and narcissistic talk.

It fits.

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we should all be working at the same pace and with no random unfairness, are all narcissists

Your concept of "fairness" is seeded in jealousy and narcissism. You not liking the outcome does not determine fairness. The RNG does not discriminate. It spits out a random answer with an item assigned to it. No bias involved.
F-A-I-R
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If the work rewards are with replacement that means after 15 years you will have gotten all three no matter what. That is fair. If you don't like it don't quit at year 9.

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No it would NOT be fine.

What compensation are you giving to people who were there 4 years? How is that "fair?" Do they get 80% of they 5 year reward? Why not? Exactly.

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If you are going to propose a system, it has to work better for everyone, NOT JUST YOU.

My proposed mixed system works for literally everyone except narcissists and jealous babies because those who strive for personal achievement or the items themselves are not hurt or benefit by this change.

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Did I say permanent extra vacation days? Nope. Once again you inferred. It was that the vacation is paid, and for that year, you get that bonus paid time off during the paid for vacation, on top of whatever normal vacation weeks you have.

Sorry, your analogy was so poor it was hard to decipher what type of actual comparison you were trying to make. You didn't explicitly say extra vacation for that year either.

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My analogy holds up brilliantly, I think.

Yikes.

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If this were about things being fair MY GEAR WOULD ALREADY BE UNLOCKED BECAUSE I EARNED IT FAIR AND SQUARE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
Didn't we establish earlier that we only wanted to discuss how to unlock gear

Well, it must be taken into account because you keep using a poor understanding of the term "fair," even by your misunderstanding your logic doesn't hold up. That's why it will keep being mentioned every time you misuse the term fair.

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And remember, it's still in your OG Reach.

Which means they effectively killed it with TMCC.

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You'll never convince me, or anyone, that being rewarded for your time spent is the same as classism.

I can't convince you you breathe air either no matter how hard I try. Once you've made up your mind it's set in stone.

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Your reward is not gone. It's still there.

Which means they effectively killed it with TMCC.

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We've also previously established that we didn't need to talk about it anymore, and we were going to focus on HOW to unlock in the MCC. Forgot THAT bit eh? But you keep coming back to how sad you are that your gear isn't here.

Then don't bring up your misinterpretation of fairness. Pretty simple.

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Seems to me you might be jaded and angry by the fact you don't have your gear. That anger might be what is making you put forth the idea of loot boxes as a 'better' solution than the current one, because it will benefit you. Everyone else and their motivations, feelings, and experience be damned.

My satisfaction with the mixed system (your choice every level) is shared by everyone because it is beneficial to everyone... except petty jealous narcissists and elitists.

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Stop being so selfish,

lol. That statement is drowned in hypocrisy.

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Unfair, unrewarding, and worse than the current system.

Nope, nope, and nope.

Fairness- impartial and just treatment or behavior without favoritism or discrimination.
So tell me, who is playing favorites or discriminating? Everyone plays by the same rules. No one is given an advantage.
It is potentially more rewarding for those who honestly care about the cosmetics because they get it earlier. It is the same rewarding experience if you only care about self-progress bc you can always choose the default of that level. It is less rewarding for people plagued by jealousy and narcissism.
Objectively false as proven by the statement above. Even you admitted a straight loot system would objectively benefit more people since they get the thing they want sooner more often. A mixed system benefits everyone except jelly babies.

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No but those people trying to make sure someone like me can't have it sooner makes them egotistical jerks.
Nope, it makes them want all of us to progress at the same pace, based on our own input into THIS game.

You mean Reach? Doesn't make them any less of egotistical jerks. You want me to pay penance for the items (again). That's jealousy. You think you're the only ones that deserves it because you completed the pass; that's ego.

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If you want to continue, try to stay focused on what we agreed - the system of HOW to unlock items in MCC. Because we established the first two other points from my earlier post weren't needing to be discussed anymore. The reason they don't need to be discussed anymore, is because we will not see a system where everything is unlocked, nor a system that grants you all your previous items. We CAN however potentially influence 343's decision on HOW we get the unlocks moving forward.

So stick to that and we won't be wasting out time.

Don't bring up concepts you don't understand like fairness and I won't get frustrated and bring up the thing that keeps refuting your interpretation of the term.

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5/7/2020

HC SOlO

Marine - Silver

Big T Mac10 wrote:
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That's isn't happening here, with me or anyone else. Not on the forums anyway, I can't speak for your DMs.
HC SOlO has. It started over a month ago. I left because of his constant trolling and harassment. The day I come back he was at it again.

Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they are trolling you. I did not "track" you down as I was never looking for you. YOU post on the forum on a topic that I am following and I reply occasionally. Let me tell you, this topic has been very entertaining! Mostly because of YOU!!

Let me clarify that I have never DM'd Big T Mac10. My only communication with this person has been on this forum.

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5/7/2020

AshamanND

ODST - Bronze

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I SPECIFICALLY asked something relevant to you since you don't have any stakes in the argument. The only game that has taken gear away from me in TMCC is Reach. Not 3 or 4, just Reach.
It's only deemed irrelevant because you don't like the fact it negates your argument. Next.

No, it does not negate my argument.

You are trying to compare removing everyone's progress within MCC, to re-releasing a game where people need to start fresh on something.
This negates YOUR argument, because these are not the same scenario. It's apples and oranges.

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The day I come back he was at it again.

Wasn't harassing in here - I have no idea about a month ago.

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I'm just employing the same iT's A dIfFeReNt GaMe logic back to you.

You still didn't explain it. When I have written something you couldn't understand I've explained it to you better.

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Can you earn a req pack that is literally nothing but permanent cosmetics? No? THEN YOU'RE WRONG

Nope, this does not make me wrong. Do your research and learn how the permanent unlocks work.
No matter how many times you try, you're still going to be wrong about how the H5 packs and permanent unlock work, until you do your research.

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As long as your odds of getting a permanent unlock are impacted at all by replenish able consumables it is a probability WITH replacement.

That's not how it's set up.

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Now unless they changed it, the number of permenent unlocks could be changed depending on how many boosters you got instead. That's at least how it used to be.

No, it's not. Do your research.

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If the work rewards are with replacement that means after 15 years you will have gotten all three no matter what. That is fair. If you don't like it don't quit at year 9.

So now you are advocating for a system that pushes people away.

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What compensation are you giving to people who were there 4 years? How is that "fair?" Do they get 80% of they 5 year reward? Why not? Exactly.

What compensation are you giving to people that earn 80% xp of a level? Do they get 80% of their helmet unlock? No. Your point is invalid.
I was illustrating that the work example gives out rewards (random or otherwise) at specific intervals, just like the MCC system gives out rewards (random or set) at specific intervals...

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My proposed mixed system works for literally everyone except narcissists and jealous babies because those who strive for personal achievement or the items themselves are not hurt or benefit by this change.

Show me some type of objective proof that people who enjoy personal achievement are narcissists.

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You didn't explicitly say extra vacation for that year either.

I wasn't clear, and I explained, like an adult. See above to the point where you're not being clear and refuse to explain.

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That's why it will keep being mentioned every time you misuse the term fair.

If I say "milk and..." are you gonna say cookies?
Just because you have a different definition of fairness, doesn't mean you need to jump to a topic we put to bed already. Stay focused.

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My satisfaction with the mixed system (your choice every level) is shared by everyone because it is beneficial to everyone...

You astound me. I can't honestly believe you think that most people would prefer loot boxes instead of known linear unlocks.
Just for fun, I started this very non-scientific poll. I think it still has merit though. While it might not be perfect science or stats, it's a heck of a lot more proof of my stance than you are offering of yours.
Have a look and tell me how many people do you think are going to agree with your ideas. Or not even how many you think will, but how many have already.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/90a6869bcf944c54a17102ac9e31da1a/topics/loot-boxes-or-battle-pass/ca60c1b3-a4bb-45e4-9d68-21bdbe1e807d/posts

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5/7/2020

xXxFir3st0rmxXx

Marine - Iron

Wow this -Yoink- is still being argued. If all you care about is unlocking gear, play an mmo, that's what they're all about.

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5/7/2020

stckrboy

Monitor

This has gone on long enough.

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