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[Locked] Why Do I have to unlock the Reach armour again?

OP X19Doug95

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People have wanted a progression system (beyond ranking) for years now, and with the inclusion of Halo: Reach, it was as good of a time as ever to add one in. You earn points (and, as such, cosmetics in Halo: Reach) when playing any of the games in matchmaking, so you'll get what you want eventually. If you don't want to do that, the Xbox 360 version still exists (as do your unlocks) and is playable on Xbox One.
I agree with this 100% ^
I don’t get the problem with the new rank system. There’s no monetary aspect, the grind is mild compared to OG Reach and 5, and the original Reach still exists for those who like the old system.
I agree with the complaints regarding the linear unlocks, but the grind really isn't that much worse than what already existed on the Xbox 360 version. 343 Industries have done a lot of scummy things, but I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, so this is a very mild one.
Yeah, I mean I could find flaws if I wanted to. We should be able to save up points and unlock what we want in whatever order we chose. I would also like to see the ability to earn XP in the campaign for people who prefer that. I’m just getting tired of people ripping on 343i over this. They could have made it a lot worse.
People have wanted a progression system (beyond ranking) for years now, and with the inclusion of Halo: Reach, it was as good of a time as ever to add one in. You earn points (and, as such, cosmetics in Halo: Reach) when playing any of the games in matchmaking, so you'll get what you want eventually. If you don't want to do that, the Xbox 360 version still exists (as do your unlocks) and is playable on Xbox One.
I agree with this 100% ^
I don’t get the problem with the new rank system. There’s no monetary aspect, the grind is mild compared to OG Reach and 5, and the original Reach still exists for those who like the old system.
I agree with the complaints regarding the linear unlocks, but the grind really isn't that much worse than what already existed on the Xbox 360 version. 343 Industries have done a lot of scummy things, but I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, so this is a very mild one.
Yeah, I mean I could find flaws if I wanted to. We should be able to save up points and unlock what we want in whatever order we chose. I would also like to see the ability to earn XP in the campaign for people who prefer that. I’m just getting tired of people ripping on 343i over this. They could have made it a lot worse.
They also could have made it a lot better than it already is. They could have made it easier to get what you want and avoid the things you don't. I play Firefight more than most others, but I detest the Firefight voices and didnt want to unlock them. 343 designed a system that forced me to unlock them.

The XP cap of 8k is also crippling (and nonsensical) to someone in the high 80's of unlocks, because it'll take around 40 games of near flawless performance in SWAT and Snipers to get one rank. The only reason I'm at the rank I'm at is because of the Double XP, and now that that's over, it's probably going to take over 10 hours to get to Rank 90.

I don't understand why people are okay with letting crap like this slide. 343 needs to be made aware of the problems with this system, or nothing will ever change.
Delta5931 wrote:
People have wanted a progression system (beyond ranking) for years now, and with the inclusion of Halo: Reach, it was as good of a time as ever to add one in. You earn points (and, as such, cosmetics in Halo: Reach) when playing any of the games in matchmaking, so you'll get what you want eventually. If you don't want to do that, the Xbox 360 version still exists (as do your unlocks) and is playable on Xbox One.
I agree with this 100% ^
I don’t get the problem with the new rank system. There’s no monetary aspect, the grind is mild compared to OG Reach and 5, and the original Reach still exists for those who like the old system.
I agree with the complaints regarding the linear unlocks, but the grind really isn't that much worse than what already existed on the Xbox 360 version. 343 Industries have done a lot of scummy things, but I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, so this is a very mild one.
Yeah, I mean I could find flaws if I wanted to. We should be able to save up points and unlock what we want in whatever order we chose. I would also like to see the ability to earn XP in the campaign for people who prefer that. I’m just getting tired of people ripping on 343i over this. They could have made it a lot worse.
They also could have made it a lot better than it already is. They could have made it easier to get what you want and avoid the things you don't. I play Firefight more than most others, but I detest the Firefight voices and didnt want to unlock them. 343 designed a system that forced me to unlock them.

The XP cap of 8k is also crippling (and nonsensical) to someone in the high 80's of unlocks, because it'll take around 40 games of near flawless performance in SWAT and Snipers to get one rank. The only reason I'm at the rank I'm at is because of the Double XP, and now that that's over, it's probably going to take over 10 hours to get to Rank 90.

I don't understand why people are okay with letting crap like this slide. 343 needs to be made aware of the problems with this system, or nothing will ever change.
"Letting crap like this slide" isn't how I'd describe it. Halo: Reach's armor unlock system on the Xbox 360 was an absurd grind, and now it's a different absurd grind. Your profile says that you're a Recruit on the Xbox 360 version anyway, so unless that's wrong, it isn't like your Xbox 360 progress "wasn't worth it" or anything. Again, I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, and you actually get some of the later stuff (like the Recon helmet) earlier in this version. It's different, but it isn't significantly worse.

343 Industries have done plenty of things to criticize them for, but the fact that this collection is still broken after half a decade should be the bigger issue.
Delta5931 wrote:
People have wanted a progression system (beyond ranking) for years now, and with the inclusion of Halo: Reach, it was as good of a time as ever to add one in. You earn points (and, as such, cosmetics in Halo: Reach) when playing any of the games in matchmaking, so you'll get what you want eventually. If you don't want to do that, the Xbox 360 version still exists (as do your unlocks) and is playable on Xbox One.
I agree with this 100% ^
I don’t get the problem with the new rank system. There’s no monetary aspect, the grind is mild compared to OG Reach and 5, and the original Reach still exists for those who like the old system.
I agree with the complaints regarding the linear unlocks, but the grind really isn't that much worse than what already existed on the Xbox 360 version. 343 Industries have done a lot of scummy things, but I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, so this is a very mild one.
Yeah, I mean I could find flaws if I wanted to. We should be able to save up points and unlock what we want in whatever order we chose. I would also like to see the ability to earn XP in the campaign for people who prefer that. I’m just getting tired of people ripping on 343i over this. They could have made it a lot worse.
They also could have made it a lot better than it already is. They could have made it easier to get what you want and avoid the things you don't. I play Firefight more than most others, but I detest the Firefight voices and didnt want to unlock them. 343 designed a system that forced me to unlock them.

The XP cap of 8k is also crippling (and nonsensical) to someone in the high 80's of unlocks, because it'll take around 40 games of near flawless performance in SWAT and Snipers to get one rank. The only reason I'm at the rank I'm at is because of the Double XP, and now that that's over, it's probably going to take over 10 hours to get to Rank 90.

I don't understand why people are okay with letting crap like this slide. 343 needs to be made aware of the problems with this system, or nothing will ever change.
"Letting crap like this slide" isn't how I'd describe it. Halo: Reach's armor unlock system on the Xbox 360 was an absurd grind, and now it's a different absurd grind. Your profile says that you're a Recruit on the Xbox 360 version anyway, so unless that's wrong, it isn't like your Xbox 360 progress "wasn't worth it" or anything. Again, I've already seen people with good stuff unlocked, and you actually get some of the later stuff (like the Recon helmet) earlier in this version. It's different, but it isn't significantly worse.

343 Industries have done plenty of things to criticize them for, but the fact that this collection is still broken after half a decade should be the bigger issue.
Seemed like people were ignoring this as an issue. I played a lot of Reach offline in singleplayer and Firefight, got to about Warrant Officer Second, I think. Other Xbox account as well. The grind is really bad for players in the high 80's, like myself. My current EXP is 8,868,900 and the required amount for Tier 88 is 9,211,000. My buddy did the math, and said that it would take 47 hours if I were getting 5000 EXP per SWAT match. Now, it's going to take me about 23 hours or longer to get to the next rank (which is just Sniper shoulderpads, by the by) if I get 10,000 EXP each match, something you can only reliably do in Firefight (which take 30 minutes each). Halo Reach on the 360 may have been a grind, but at least I could choose what I wanted there. I don't get that same luxury here. Those are also a little off, because I thought the required amount of EXP would be different.

No doubt the bugs should be the larger issue, but unticking the box or changing a line of code to get rid of an 8,000 EXP cap should be easy to take care of, something they could probably do literally right now, if they wanted to.
All these people talking about how this is faster than OG Reach. Is it, though? I would honestly love for someone to run the numbers on that, and find out definitively on whether or not that is, and to what degree it could be. Because it's been nearly a decade since then, your memories might not be the most accurate things to rely on here.
After all, OG Reach did have some things that this version does not (as of right now) to get more credits. The challenges, commendations, jackpot bonus(es). Those did help you with nice little boosts for your credit accumulation. Now, I understand that OG Reach slows down greatly at the highest levels, but that is not where you would acquire the majority of the armour that the game had to offer, as well as some armour peaces being unlocked in groups for both systems.
I am genuinely curious as to what the rate of unlocking would be between both versions of Reach. Both the armour itself, as well as other unlocks like Firefight voices, hearts, ect. If nothing else it would have more grounds as a legitimate point of interest for a conversation, rather than being bandied about as some automatic "I win" for whatever argument involving the unlock system.
But that's just my 2 credits on the situation, make of it what you will.
Why be negative about it? I love unlocking it all again and if you don’t want to do that you don’t have to play, be grateful that we now have all the Halo games in one place. It’s awesome.
Armerus wrote:
All these people talking about how this is faster than OG Reach. Is it, though? I would honestly love for someone to run the numbers on that, and find out definitively on whether or not that is, and to what degree it could be. Because it's been nearly a decade since then, your memories might not be the most accurate things to rely on here.
After all, OG Reach did have some things that this version does not (as of right now) to get more credits. The challenges, commendations, jackpot bonus(es). Those did help you with nice little boosts for your credit accumulation. Now, I understand that OG Reach slows down greatly at the highest levels, but that is not where you would acquire the majority of the armour that the game had to offer, as well as some armour peaces being unlocked in groups for both systems.
I am genuinely curious as to what the rate of unlocking would be between both versions of Reach. Both the armour itself, as well as other unlocks like Firefight voices, hearts, ect. If nothing else it would have more grounds as a legitimate point of interest for a conversation, rather than being bandied about as some automatic "I win" for whatever argument involving the unlock system.
But that's just my 2 credits on the situation, make of it what you will.
I am one of the people who were initially very displeased with the current unlock method. In OG Reach I got to the rank of Field Marshall, and according to the online service record lookup, I had about 108 hours played. Also in the service record lookup, it says I have 28 percent armory completion. That number would be higher if I didn't have Inclement Weather (2 million cR). Just for arguments sake, lets say I used that 2 mil to instead go and buy up as much of the armory as I could, how much do you think I could get? Let's assume I can get upwards of 60 percent. So, in OG Reach after 108 hours, I still only have 60 something percent armory completion.

I have played Reach MCC on the PC for 57 hours and am at tier 56. I play about a half-and-half mix of Grifball, and other 4v4 modes such as TU Snipers and SWAT. It seems like I have maintained a near 1:1 hour-to-tier ratio, which lines up with what 343 said. If you don't recall, 343 said it would take about 100 hours to complete the armory.

108 hours in OG Reach for 60 something percent vs Reach MCC 100 hours for everything.
Zardnar wrote:
Armerus wrote:
I have played Reach MCC on the PC for 57 hours and am at tier 56. I play about a half-and-half mix of Grifball, and other 4v4 modes such as TU Snipers and SWAT. It seems like I have maintained a near 1:1 hour-to-tier ratio, which lines up with what 343 said. If you don't recall, 343 said it would take about 100 hours to complete the armory.
This is either a lie, assuming 8,000 Performance, 8,000 Teamwork and max Completion bonus, or done on Double EXP. I'm well at over 100 hours, and it will take roughly 23 hours for me to get a rank (I'm at Tier 87) assuming I'm getting 10,000 EXP each match.
Delta5931 wrote:
Zardnar wrote:
Armerus wrote:
I have played Reach MCC on the PC for 57 hours and am at tier 56. I play about a half-and-half mix of Grifball, and other 4v4 modes such as TU Snipers and SWAT. It seems like I have maintained a near 1:1 hour-to-tier ratio, which lines up with what 343 said. If you don't recall, 343 said it would take about 100 hours to complete the armory.
This is either a lie, assuming 8,000 Performance, 8,000 Teamwork and max Completion bonus, or done on Double EXP. I'm well at over 100 hours, and it will take roughly 23 hours for me to get a rank (I'm at Tier 87) assuming I'm getting 10,000 EXP each match.
Most of it was done during double XP, and I would be happy to post screenshots of my time played and the tier I am on when I get home. I did not account for the much higher XP requirement later in the tiers into the time factor for some reason. If it is the case of needing 20+ hours for a single rank, MCC may be slower than the original. If MCC is indeed slower, then I agree with everyone who hates this system. I don't like it but was willing to give it a pass since it appeared to be much faster than OG.
Uh, it's not a big deal guys, it's not like you have to play for a minimum of 100 days to unlock everything again? It's been a month and some players have already gotten to tier 100. Plus, once you finish a "tour" the amount of xp required to level up resets, so you get more armor faster. Adds another reason to play the game after all.
Uh, it's not a big deal guys, it's not like you have to play for a minimum of 100 days to unlock everything again? It's been a month and some players have already gotten to tier 100. Plus, once you finish a "tour" the amount of xp required to level up resets, so you get more armor faster. Adds another reason to play the game after all.
Because Double EXP has been active almost as long as the game has been out. Double XP makes high Tier (mid 80's) unlockables achievable. Its gonna take almost 40 hours or so of average performance for me to get to Tier 88 without Double XP. The amount of EXP also doesnt truly reset, as you still require more at Tier 60 than you do at Tier 30. That also doesnt make a lick of difference at the progression roadblock of the mid 80's.
Delta5931 wrote:
Uh, it's not a big deal guys, it's not like you have to play for a minimum of 100 days to unlock everything again? It's been a month and some players have already gotten to tier 100. Plus, once you finish a "tour" the amount of xp required to level up resets, so you get more armor faster. Adds another reason to play the game after all.
Because Double EXP has been active almost as long as the game has been out. Double XP makes high Tier (mid 80's) unlockables achievable. Its gonna take almost 40 hours or so of average performance for me to get to Tier 88 without Double XP. The amount of EXP also doesnt truly reset, as you still require more at Tier 60 than you do at Tier 30. That also doesnt make a lick of difference at the progression roadblock of the mid 80's.
Still beats playing 16 hours a day 80 days out of 100 of the living dead playlist. Like I said, you can max rank in a month on MCC with normal levels of gameplay, hell, some players got max rank in ONE WEEK, if you want max rank in halo reach in 100 days, you basically have to give up school, work, and any real world social obligation in order to play unless you just boost in grifball. Considering the average slayer match lasts about 7 minutes, you can earn 112,000 per hour considering that you are getting consistent max performance and teamwork (not really that hard) and that's not even considering the average 2000 match completion bonus, you can max rank at 86 hours.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that when you see a max rank, xp to level up doesn't even really matter, it's the amount of xp to the end product, you still have 9+ million to level up.
Is there an official 343 explanation of how this all works somewhere?
Is there an official 343 explanation of how this all works somewhere?
These two blogs explain it. Link, Link.
LUKEPOWA wrote:
Is there an official 343 explanation of how this all works somewhere?
These two blogs explain it. Link, Link.
Aside from these two blog posts being eons old now, they only comment broadly about it and the closest we get to a good explanation is "...will generally take less than the Xbox 360 version."
Delta5931 wrote:
Zardnar wrote:
Armerus wrote:
I have played Reach MCC on the PC for 57 hours and am at tier 56. I play about a half-and-half mix of Grifball, and other 4v4 modes such as TU Snipers and SWAT. It seems like I have maintained a near 1:1 hour-to-tier ratio, which lines up with what 343 said. If you don't recall, 343 said it would take about 100 hours to complete the armory.
This is either a lie, assuming 8,000 Performance, 8,000 Teamwork and max Completion bonus, or done on Double EXP. I'm well at over 100 hours, and it will take roughly 23 hours for me to get a rank (I'm at Tier 87) assuming I'm getting 10,000 EXP each match.
It is all based on skill. My friend had a 2 day head start on me and I passed him the first day I played. He played at least 12 hours more than I did. That being said the grind is quicker for those who are better.
Zardnar wrote:
Aside from these two blog posts being eons old now, they only comment broadly about it and the closest we get to a good explanation is "...will generally take less than the Xbox 360 version."
Not sure what you're still unsure about since the majority of it is pretty self-explanatory. Unlocks will definitely take less time to get them all compared to the 360. It took me a little over a month with a few weeks of double XP so maybe 2-4 months with normal XP amounts.
Yeah, this system legitimately makes me not want to play the game. I already have enough games taking up my time, I do not need this one demanding any more of it, especially since it demands that I play game modes that I do not enjoy to make progress.
This is a legacy collection. Having everything unlocked would not harm the experience. The only reason people complained about the customisation at launch was because it was an objective downgrade from the source games. Everything being unlocked at the start was never the issue.
You should play a game because you want to play it, not because it's holding things you want to ransom. An arbitrary grind helps no one.
This system is making the game ever more boring and tiring, I find myself quitting after 4 matches of Firefight, which is currently the best way to level up, as it gives you literally 16,000 Performance and around 5,000 Team-Work every single time, unless you're on a Firefight map with a vehicle, then it's 16,000 for both categories... I find myself quitting because I usually do 1st or 2nd on my team, only to get around 70% through a level, which is annoying... As a single Firefight takes 20 minutes, times that by 4 and that's 1 hour and 30 minutes, which isn't worth it if you have both College, Work, and many other things to attend to. I find myself going to play Forza or even Minecraft rather than this, which is sad... Because I hate Minecraft, yet I have dedicated more time to it in these past 2 months than I have Halo: Reach on MCC.

I find the grind and the reward more worth it in Minecraft than in MCC: Reach right now, because after an hour of work in Minecraft, I'll have a dog, full iron armor and weapons, as well as a decent house... Meanwhile in Halo: Reach MCC, I'll have nothing but a 3.5/4 quarter filled bar that slowly turns a shade of blue, only to grant me a Token... A f##king Token, that I can't even use to unlock an armor of my choice, rather an armor of 343i's choice, which is usually ugly and not what I want.

This system is utterly flawed, though not as bad as the OG Reach, this is still annoying... I'd rather not waste my VERY LIMITED TIME on grinding every single day for about 2 hours only to unlock useless s##t that I'll discard in a few weeks after unlocking something else... Conclusion - This system needs to be revamped, and no matter how much "challenges" for campaign they add, or how many points they allow you to earn per-match, it will not make the system any better...
Stop gate-keeping, stop defending anti-consumer practices.
"It wasn't that fun back on the 360 and it looks less fun now.." - If it's less fun to you, then don't play. No one cares.
"Like who asked for this?" - Everyone asked for it, except for you.
"And why did you ask for this?" - Because it's remastered, on a different platform, and has provided new ways to unlock armor through seasons, commendations, and rank; bringing people back, instead of letting everyone enter with everything unlocked.
"I already unlocked everything. I don't want to do it again." - Good.
Hey bro how much does 343I pay you? Do you enjoy insulting strangers? I bet you are so strong and you talk to everyone in public with that tone.
Your position is unhelpful to all parties involved here. OP came out of the gate with unconstructive, unchecked negativity and very little in the way of legitimate feedback. Just vague complaining. When someone decides that's how they want to start a conversation, don't be surprised when people slap them down unsympathetically. Blame OP for setting the bar of this thread so low instead of lecturing someone for putting them in their place. Besides, I Am Tiberius was not insulting, but his tone was understandably combative. There's a place for that kind of talk, and it doesn't make the person a big jerk meanie head who needs to be preached at. As an aside, accusing someone of being a shill, especially with no good reason, is pretty lame. Reflects on you more than the person you're trying to cancel.

Now, on to the actual discussion. I completely understand the frustration some players have with not having their old unlocks, especially considering how long they originally took to get. But there's also a strong case to be made for starting everybody fresh. MCC isn't meant to be merely a single place to launch the old games. It's a new platform with its own goals of refreshing each title (without affecting playability, which is another issue for another time). So play the game and enjoy the (much shorter) grind. I recall that in the Battlefield Bad Company 2 days, players would often reach out to DICE to reset their unlocks to enjoy the fun of the grind again, so it's really not the end of the world.
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