Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Why does Team Hardcore remove the motion tracker?

OP Geth Pathfinder

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I get why abilities are removed and BRs are emphasized. I was just playing the Halo Reach flight on Xbox and there’s no sprint or bloom, which makes sense. My question is why remove the motion tracker when it is one of the defining characteristics of Halo? Usually competitive playlists remove “random” elements to make it more balanced. The motion tracker is fair and there’s ways to counter it. Why remove it?
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
That still doesn’t really answer the question. Isn’t every game essentially a “team” game? Call outs don’t really replace the motion trackers as enemies can easily sneak behind your team. The motion tracker added an extra level of strategy and stealth while allowing players to pay attention to what they aren’t looking at.
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
That still doesn’t really answer the question. Isn’t every game essentially a “team” game? Call outs don’t really replace the motion trackers as enemies can easily sneak behind your team. The motion tracker added an extra level of strategy and stealth while allowing players to pay attention to what they aren’t looking at.
I'd argue the motion tracker allows for the stealth to happen because if motion trackers are on then you can simply just see people behind you. It would give you time to react regardless of whether a call out was made. With no tracker, you'd have to rely on teamwork (either a teammate killing him or calling him out before you get killed). Besides I'm pretty sure every Halo besides Halo 3 FFA and Halo 5(tracker enabled for Spartan abilities/shooting) has motion trackers disabled in Hardcore modes. That's part of what sets it apart from the core modes with the tracker.
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
That still doesn’t really answer the question. Isn’t every game essentially a “team” game? Call outs don’t really replace the motion trackers as enemies can easily sneak behind your team. The motion tracker added an extra level of strategy and stealth while allowing players to pay attention to what they aren’t looking at.
Your statement of the motion tracker being a defining feature of halo isn't really correct , in hardcore radar has always been disabled until h5 and was a highly contentious change that the pro players never seemed to like.
The motion tracker is free information which makes it less competitive.
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
It's been like this for over 10 years now with no issues.
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
Motion tracker has been removed from every instance of competitive Halo up until Halo 5 where it was forced in by 343 and remains a problem for competitive players. It has always been this way.

Motion tracker is a crutch.
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
Call outs don’t really replace the motion trackers as enemies can easily sneak behind your team.
Working together and calling out does replace the motion tracker. With 8 eyes looking around the map, its pretty difficult for someone to sneak around. Additionally playing without the radar requires a greater understanding of spawns and game sense. Removing the radar is a unanimously considered a competitive decision.
WerepyreND wrote:
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
Motion tracker has been removed from every instance of competitive Halo up until Halo 5 where it was forced in by 343 and remains a problem for competitive players. It has always been this way.

Motion tracker is a crutch.
It’s been this way a while but it still doesn’t make much sense. I play the campaign before I play multiplayer. Everything introduced in the campaign should be in multiplayer, including the motion tracker. Another thing that confuses me is why the motion tracker is absent from Halo CE? It was definitely there in the original.
While the motion tracker isn't AS random as other game elements can be, it does still introduce luck to the game.

"Do I walk or do I run? If someone's camping around that corner up ahead and I run, then I've just given away my position. If I walk and there's no one there, then I've just slowed the game down and wasted my time. I guess I'll just roll the dice to see which outcome I get."

With no motion tracker, then there's no reason to ever walk in that above scenario. Yes, there may still be someone camping. But, they aren't going to know when you're coming around the corner(since camping is harder to do without motion tracker).

tldr: motion tracker encourages camping and slows the pace of the game down by encouraging people to walk instead of run.

Another thing that confuses me is why the mosh on tracked is absent from Halo CE? It was definitely there in the original.
It is in Halo CE. It's just turned off in the game settings since the more competitive players don't want it. Set up some custom games if you want motion tracker. It might be enabled in some of the match composer gametypes as well. I'm not really sure about that one.
Willko wrote:
Another thing that confuses me is why the motion tracker is absent from Halo CE? It was definitely there in the original.
It is in Halo CE. It's just turned off in the game settings since the more competitive players don't want it. Set up some custom games if you want motion tracker. It might be enabled in some of the match composer gametypes as well. I'm not really sure about that one.
I know you can turn it on. I believe it’s present in BTB. I’m not sure why regular slayer has it disabled. The motion tracker in Halo CE is only 15m, so it’s already smaller than the others.
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
The cod kids lost there mind over the mini map removal in the beta of MW , kind of reminds of your arguement about it here .
WerepyreND wrote:
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
Motion tracker has been removed from every instance of competitive Halo up until Halo 5 where it was forced in by 343 and remains a problem for competitive players. It has always been this way.

Motion tracker is a crutch.
It’s been this way a while but it still doesn’t make much sense. I play the campaign before I play multiplayer. Everything introduced in the campaign should be in multiplayer, including the motion tracker. Another thing that confuses me is why the motion tracker is absent from Halo CE? It was definitely there in the original.
"Everything in campaign should be in multiplayer." Why? Things that work in a PvE environment are not always well suited for multiplayer and even if we were to accept that premise there is no reason that everything has be uniform across every possible gametype.

As far as CE is concerned there is basically no need for any motion tracker, in anything smaller than 8v8 if you don't know where your opponents are or where they will respawn chances are you are already dead.

As for Hardcore settings in the other games, the motion tracker is actively harmful for a competitive experience. If you are getting "easily" flanked in team games without motion tracker, it just demonstrates a lack of effective communication, poor map awareness, a poor understanding of the spawn system, and/or bad habits on your part. On top of all that the only "counters" to MT are to either not move or crouch and move incredibly slowly which can lead to very passive, dull experience, especially when we are talking about two teams who are both playing to win.

Information is power, and motion tracker is a powerful tool that can and will get exploited by higher level players to the detriment of the game experience, it is removed from competitive gametypes for good reason and to be honest it would be better for Halo overall if it was dropped from all standard gametypes with the exception of free for all.
WerepyreND wrote:
WerepyreND wrote:
I just think it’s weird that Halo fans accuse loadouts, armor abilities, and lower TTK, as turning in to CoD; yet removing an iconic piece of Halo is perfectly fine for the competitive crowd.
Motion tracker has been removed from every instance of competitive Halo up until Halo 5 where it was forced in by 343 and remains a problem for competitive players. It has always been this way.

Motion tracker is a crutch.
It’s been this way a while but it still doesn’t make much sense. I play the campaign before I play multiplayer. Everything introduced in the campaign should be in multiplayer, including the motion tracker. Another thing that confuses me is why the motion tracker is absent from Halo CE? It was definitely there in the original.
"Everything in campaign should be in multiplayer." Why? Things that work in a PvE environment are not always well suited for multiplayer and even if we were to accept that premise there is no reason that everything has be uniform across every possible gametype.

As far as CE is concerned there is basically no need for any motion tracker, in anything smaller than 8v8 if you don't know where your opponents are or where they will respawn chances are you are already dead.

As for Hardcore settings in the other games, the motion tracker is actively harmful for a competitive experience. If you are getting "easily" flanked in team games without motion tracker, it just demonstrates a lack of effective communication, poor map awareness, a poor understanding of the spawn system, and/or bad habits on your part. On top of all that the only "counters" to MT are to either not move or crouch and move incredibly slowly which can lead to very passive, dull experience, especially when we are talking about two teams who are both playing to win.

Information is power, and motion tracker is a powerful tool that can and will get exploited by higher level players to the detriment of the game experience, it is removed from competitive gametypes for good reason and to be honest it would be better for Halo overall if it was dropped from all standard gametypes with the exception of free for all.
Ok, I see your point. I’ve made arguments before for why some things should be changed between campaign and multiplayer (e.g. max reserve ammo needs to be increased in the campaign). I still disagree with the idea of removal of the MT from non-Harcore modes. I don’t really know the spawns, I don’t know callout terms, I’m usually not in the mood to talk online, I usually die from fights if I don’t get the jump first, and I’m unfamiliar with many maps in the MCC. So I’m definitely not a pro, lol. I don’t really like Hardcore modes that much but I got stuck with it in Reach as part of the Insider. I actually do like the 0 bloom.

This forum wasn’t made because I’m outraged about the MT removal, I was just curious why. I’ve never really understood since I started playing online a few years ago.
Because hardcore is really a team based experience with call outs and map control , spawn locations and power weapons the keys to success. But the key word being team
That still doesn’t really answer the question. Isn’t every game essentially a “team” game? Call outs don’t really replace the motion trackers as enemies can easily sneak behind your team. The motion tracker added an extra level of strategy and stealth while allowing players to pay attention to what they aren’t looking at.
hardcore is it's own playlist and has certain attributes like other playlists. Look at no radar in hardcore like having no shields in swat.
It's simple. 343 wanted to make the mode more challenging; another reason why it's "hardcore." Taking away the motion tracker makes it so you have to look around yourself constantly.
I get why abilities are removed and BRs are emphasized. I was just playing the Halo Reach flight on Xbox and there’s no sprint or bloom, which makes sense. My question is why remove the motion tracker when it is one of the defining characteristics of Halo? Usually competitive playlists remove “random” elements to make it more balanced. The motion tracker is fair and there’s ways to counter it. Why remove it?
As said before me, basically because radar gives out free informations (and very important ones since it indicates precisely the position of the opponents), and in general because it reduces skill gap. Imagine to play a FIFA penalty shootout while having the indicator of where the opponent will kick the ball turned on.

Furthermore, the radar would literally kill a competitive game: you may think that without having one there could be more campers, but it's the exact opposite: campers do exist in Halo because they take advantage of the movement perk. In fact, usually, if you're running a game played with radars on, you would expect that if a opponent is passing by your zone, to have him registered; instead, you get caught off guard and have no time to react (given how much damage fists and shotguns score in Halo). There's literally no skill involved in hiding in a corner waiting for the next opponent to pass by in order to kill him at his back or jumping on him. Or even without bringing in campers, just think at what you (probably) do when you are matched against a very highly skilled player that keeps slaying you and your entire team: the first thought is to crouch-walk behind him to catch him off-guard. Or at least that's literally what every opponent I match in Social games tries to do to me: they take advantage of the presence of radar to reduce the skill gap needed to kill me. In competitive, you have to coordinate with your teammates with knowledge, experience and callouts in order to be able to flank an enemy.
Also, in many radar-based games, people that are fighting tend to make the game stall expecially in 1v1 situations. It often happens that one waits for the other one by standing still in order to have the advantage of knowing from which direction the other one is attacking. Then, when the second guy starts going, the other one notices him and moves to react, making the other think "damn, he saw that I'm going to attack here and he's going to react", making him back out and stall the game. Many times if you do not stall or back out a couple of times before properly pushing for the kill, you end up taking the corner just to find a grenade on your feet followed by a BR headshot. It always happens, expecially (oddly enough) if the 2 fighting are both very skilled players that think in advance that before attacking they need to make the opponent waste all of his nades, thus decreasing game speed and fun.
Notice, as I said before, that radars are not "obtained" in the game for merits (like after a kill streak or something), they're just there to give people free informations that literally change the entire playstyle of the game.
Ugh I’ve always hated most of the so-called “competitive” modes because of the rigid idea that it has to be typically precision weapons, no special abilities and no radar. It’s not even the same game anymore at that point. How can you even call that being competitive at Halo? If you get good at that and master it then congrats, you’re good at “competitive mode,” not Halo as it comes in it’s basic form. Ironically “competitive/MLG” mode always sucked the fun and the competition and the general life out of the game for me and my friends. Precision weapons and no radar always seems to turn the game into a pop-shot, hide and seek camp fest instead of a game of head on confrontation.
I noticed one user commented that free information is less competitive. What...? That makes it MORE competitive to have radar, not less. No radar means lots of free assassinations and ambushes unless you’re wearing a headset with great audio at a relatively high volume.

Whereas a radar gives a constant feed to both parties, making the game a very conscious decision of strategies between BOTH players who can see eachother whenever in range, even if not through direct visuals....and the only way to ambush anyone is to stay OFF the radar or be quick enough to pull it off. There is way more brains and skills involved in that.
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