Forums / Games / Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Xbox)

Why even fanboys should complain

OP NNMS MXMS

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For those of you who feel a need to lament about "self entitlement" or "whiny gamers" and exhorting us to "show more patience", you might consider rethinking your position.

Halo 4 did not have the staying power of even Halo Reach with respect to MP population. This resulted in the less popular gametypes being removed and moderately popular ones being relegated to rotational lists (many of which had achievements associated with them), longer matchmaking times, and overall poorer matching. Multiplayer games require a healthy population for a good matchmaking experience.

When Halo 5 comes out a year from now, it will scavenge players from MCC. This will reduce the MCC player pool - and will likely reduce it substantially. This will have an effect on the matchmaking quality or available playlists or - in all likelihood - both. In other words, the effective lifetime for the optimal matchmaking experience in the MCC is a mere 52 weeks, not the normal 156. Given that the Guardians beta also consumes nearly 3 weeks (and many of us MP players intend to play the crap out of it), the real optimal lifespan of the MCC is about 49 weeks.

If 343i is able to fix matchmaking by Tuesday, by the time many of us are able to play matchmaking in any satisfactory fashion, more than 5% of that optimal life will have elapsed. If it drags on for another 2 weeks, more than 10% is gone. And if it pulls a BF4, 75% of it will be gone. Since I don't imagine that 343i will refund the requisite percentage of my purchase price of both the game and the Xbox One to play it, I (and others like me) are unquestionably within our rights to complain - and complain repeatedly. Some as-yet-unknown portion of our initial purchase has not been compensated for by the advertised functionality.

Moreover, the launch issues with the game will have an effect on ongoing purchases, both while the launch problems are being fixed and after. Word-of-mouth is what killed H4; word-of-mouth will do the same with the MCC (and will likely affect H5 as well). Fewer people will spend the money to buy Xbox Ones to play a partially functional game - and those that do may become even more disillusioned than current players because they will be less tolerant of issues that persist well after the launch date. Fewer people will have confidence that investing in either the MCC (or H5) is a good use of their money. The longer this goes on, the smaller the MCC multiplayer population will be at any given time, and the less optimal the matchmaking experience will be. This will have an effect on matchmaking quality for everyone - including those of you for whom the current patch worked well.

Some element of the gaming experience for the MCC has already been irrevocably lost. Perhaps it is only a small part - assuming the game is fixed in short order - but it could turn out to be quite significant. Criticizing those who are dissatisfied serves only to reduce the incentive for 343i to fix the game now and reduces the incentive for 343i to spend the extra resources for more significant testing on H5 later because your criticism means that you find the current situation acceptable.

Word-of-mouth matters. The fact that unflattering word-of-mouth has a significant negative impact on game purchases after release provides a financial incentive for the manufacturer to satisfy the customer as much as possible. If we wish H5 to be released without MCC-scale problems, we would be doing both ourselves and 343i a service to register loudly and clearly that the launch and continued problems with MCC are unacceptable and will result in a substantial amount of bad press if they recur. Would we rather complain now and have 343i give renewed focus to prelaunch testing of H5 . . . or wait until H5 launches with a new set of significant problems?

With the exception of legal action like lawsuits (which I strongly oppose in this case), word-of-mouth and returns (which primarily work by generating more negative word-of-mouth) are the customer's checks on the customer-manufacturer balance. Attempting to stifle them with pithy one-liners and belittling statements does a disservice to the community as a whole.
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
Agree, 10/10. It is unacceptable and those defending the title are only going to make this worse. I've tried many times to express what you just said.
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
I agree with what this guy said about what the other guy said.
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.
You yourself said negative word of mouth will turn people away. So why do you encourage so many to hate on the game?
Not worth reading
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.
I wish it would be that way, too. The juvenile "343i blows monkey ballz" statements add nothing. They only serve to undermine a legitimate position - that the game, as delivered, was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, I think we probably disagree on one aspect of this . . . I find the fanboys to be even more irritating because I'm stuck in a situation where my multiplayer does not function at all. Add to that the campaign bugs, and I have become quite frustrated.

I was so excited to get this game, too . . . and I think that makes the frustration even worse.
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.
343bola heheh. When I read that people were saying that I lost faith in humanity. Funny enough, these forums are making me lose faith in humanity than anything related to the game. I know 343's trying and I respect it, but they're still failing to deliver. We can't just sit by and say "let's be patient!" Forever, especially with Halo 5 releasing in a year and a 3-4 week beta releasing in the next month or two.

As Michael Sandel once said (roughly), we've lost all sense of rational debate.

I'm with Kit Kat, but I completely agree OP. Preach on.
We have to be happy that 343i is doing a beta a year in advanced to avoid these issues. This experience for 343i sucks, but it could be the best thing that could of happened to them. When they are fixing these problems they will also learn a lot about what is compatible with the Xbox One and its servers. However, this damages 343i's image for a lot of people, and this is not where the leading developer for Microsoft should be. If they fix the issues in the next week a large sum of people will keep on playing, but after that time is when most of their fan base will leave for the other compelling games that just came out.
You yourself said negative word of mouth will turn people away. So why do you encourage so many to hate on the game?
To emphasize the importance of getting it right for H5.

At some point - if we wish this habit of releasing partially functional games to be less frequent - we have to draw a line. Would you rather that line be with MCC or some point after the H5 release? And given that the patch did not work . . . unless we continue complaining, how will 343i know that a significant portion of the players still do not have MP functionality? Would you rather the feedback wait until new purchasers of the game load it up only to find out that it's still broken?
Fomo wrote:
Not worth reading
Then why bother even commenting? Yet you go on tangents telling people who want refunds or compensation to get off the forums. Stop being a hypocrite. Why go on the forum if you won't hear out one of the more rational arguments so far?
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.

I wish it would be that way, too. The juvenile "343i blows monkey ballz" statements add nothing. They only serve to undermine a legitimate position - that the game, as delivered, was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, I think we probably disagree on one aspect of this . . . I find the fanboys to be even more irritating because I'm stuck in a situation where my multiplayer does not function at all. Add to that the campaign bugs, and I have become quite frustrated.

I was so excited to get this game, too . . . and I think that makes the frustration even worse.
No, I agree....I dislike when others blindly defend things too.....what is really bothering me is this...I can find matchs play story just fine.....and so can others.....but at the same time the other 50% can not.....it makes 0 sense to me.
Baron Kit wrote:
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.


I wish it would be that way, too. The juvenile "343i blows monkey ballz" statements add nothing. They only serve to undermine a legitimate position - that the game, as delivered, was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, I think we probably disagree on one aspect of this . . . I find the fanboys to be even more irritating because I'm stuck in a situation where my multiplayer does not function at all. Add to that the campaign bugs, and I have become quite frustrated.

I was so excited to get this game, too . . . and I think that makes the frustration even worse.

No, I agree....I dislike when others blindly defend things too.....what is really bothering me is this...I can find matchs play story just fine.....and so can others.....but at the same time the other 50% can not.....it makes 0 sense to me.
And the few matches I've found have all been P2P. I've yet to play on a dedicated server. The inconsistency really makes no sense.
To add to OP's excellent points: Criticism is an invaluable resource to artists everywhere. It helps people to hone their skills and recognize what works, and what doesn't. It helps developers continually renew and improve upon the games we buy. In every respect, constructive criticism is a gift - and if handled responsibly - it is incredibly powerful. Even harshly-spoken criticism has value, if the points being delivered are sound. If you truly love something, then why shouldn't you take the time to carefully analyze it? To study, critique, and dissect it? We all want Halo to be the best that it can be, and putting aside your hype to evaluate it objectively is the best thing you can do to help a developer once you've already purchased their product. Finally, it's never a good idea to defend the developers and/or their design decisions just because you're fond of them. Whatever your position is on these matters, you shouldn't simply disregard dissenters as petty & whiners. The critical individuals among us love Halo too - the reasoning behind their criticism is the same as the reasoning behind many fans' defenses.

Most importantly, when you disagree with somebody on here, use your head and deliver a valid counterargument instead of resorting to a strawman. If we stopped attacking each other and began to really discuss things instead, everyone here would be a lot happier.
You yourself said negative word of mouth will turn people away. So why do you encourage so many to hate on the game?
Really you need to ask why he encourages people to voice their opinion. You haven't had a btb in team slayer playlist yet versus your friends? Or campaign freezing? Or inability to play customs with friends immediately without some restart process??? Come on. Quit posting like there nothing to hate about this game.

I love halo. Master chief has been my homie since I was 13. This is disheartening not to be able to play.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
For those of you who feel a need to lament about "self entitlement" or "whiny gamers" and exhorting us to "show more patience", you might consider rethinking your position.

Halo 4 did not have the staying power of even Halo Reach with respect to MP population. This resulted in the less popular gametypes being removed and moderately popular ones being relegated to rotational lists (many of which had achievements associated with them), longer matchmaking times, and overall poorer matching. Multiplayer games require a healthy population for a good matchmaking experience.

When Halo 5 comes out a year from now, it will scavenge players from MCC. This will reduce the MCC player pool - and will likely reduce it substantially. This will have an effect on the matchmaking quality or available playlists or - in all likelihood - both. In other words, the effective lifetime for the optimal matchmaking experience in the MCC is a mere 52 weeks, not the normal 156. Given that the Guardians beta also consumes nearly 3 weeks (and many of us MP players intend to play the crap out of it), the real optimal lifespan of the MCC is about 49 weeks.

If 343i is able to fix matchmaking by Tuesday, by the time many of us are able to play matchmaking in any satisfactory fashion, more than 5% of that optimal life will have elapsed. If it drags on for another 2 weeks, more than 10% is gone. And if it pulls a BF4, 75% of it will be gone. Since I don't imagine that 343i will refund the requisite percentage of my purchase price of both the game and the Xbox One to play it, I (and others like me) are unquestionably within our rights to complain - and complain repeatedly. Some as-yet-unknown portion of our initial purchase has not been compensated for by the advertised functionality.

Moreover, the launch issues with the game will have an effect on ongoing purchases, both while the launch problems are being fixed and after. Word-of-mouth is what killed H4; word-of-mouth will do the same with the MCC (and will likely affect H5 as well). Fewer people will spend the money to buy Xbox Ones to play a partially functional game - and those that do may become even more disillusioned than current players because they will be less tolerant of issues that persist well after the launch date. Fewer people will have confidence that investing in either the MCC (or H5) is a good use of their money. The longer this goes on, the smaller the MCC multiplayer population will be at any given time, and the less optimal the matchmaking experience will be. This will have an effect on matchmaking quality for everyone - including those of you for whom the current patch worked well.

Some element of the gaming experience for the MCC has already been irrevocably lost. Perhaps it is only a small part - assuming the game is fixed in short order - but it could turn out to be quite significant. Criticizing those who are dissatisfied serves only to reduce the incentive for 343i to fix the game now and reduces the incentive for 343i to spend the extra resources for more significant testing on H5 later because your criticism means that you find the current situation acceptable.

Word-of-mouth matters. The fact that unflattering word-of-mouth has a significant negative impact on game purchases after release provides a financial incentive for the manufacturer to satisfy the customer as much as possible. If we wish H5 to be released without MCC-scale problems, we would be doing both ourselves and 343i a service to register loudly and clearly that the launch and continued problems with MCC are unacceptable and will result in a substantial amount of bad press if they recur. Would we rather complain now and have 343i give renewed focus to prelaunch testing of H5 . . . or wait until H5 launches with a new set of significant problems?

With the exception of legal action like lawsuits (which I strongly oppose in this case), word-of-mouth and returns (which primarily work by generating more negative word-of-mouth) are the customer's checks on the customer-manufacturer balance. Attempting to stifle them with pithy one-liners and belittling statements does a disservice to the community as a whole.
I couldn't have agreed more. Bravo sir. I hope people stop being ignorant and give this a read
Deex wrote:
To add to OP's excellent points: Criticism is an invaluable resource to artists everywhere. It helps people to hone their skills and recognize what works, and what doesn't. It helps developers continually renew and improve upon the games we buy. In every respect, criticism is a gift - and if handled responsibly - it is incredibly powerful. If you truly love something, then why shouldn't you take the time to carefully analyze it? To study, critique, and dissect it? We all want Halo to be the best that it can be, and putting aside your hype to evaluate it objectively is the best thing you can do to help a developer once you've already purchased their product. Finally, it's never a good idea to defend the developers and/or their design decisions just because you're fond of them. Whatever your position is on these matters, you shouldn't simply disregard dissenters as petty & whiners. The critical individuals among us love Halo too - the reasoning behind their criticism is the same as the reasoning behind many fans' defenses.

Most importantly, when you disagree with somebody on here, use your head and deliver a valid counterargument instead of resorting to a strawman. If we stopped attacking each other and began to really discuss things instead, everyone here would be a lot happier.
Thank you. Well said.
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.


I wish it would be that way, too. The juvenile "343i blows monkey ballz" statements add nothing. They only serve to undermine a legitimate position - that the game, as delivered, was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, I think we probably disagree on one aspect of this . . . I find the fanboys to be even more irritating because I'm stuck in a situation where my multiplayer does not function at all. Add to that the campaign bugs, and I have become quite frustrated.

I was so excited to get this game, too . . . and I think that makes the frustration even worse.


No, I agree....I dislike when others blindly defend things too.....what is really bothering me is this...I can find matchs play story just fine.....and so can others.....but at the same time the other 50% can not.....it makes 0 sense to me.

And the few matches I've found have all been P2P. I've yet to play on a dedicated server. The inconsistency really makes no sense.
Thats my deal..I've had both but mostly servers..I wish I had more knowledge on these sort of things.....it just well as you said.....makes no sense.
Baron Kit wrote:
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
NNMS MXMS wrote:
Baron Kit wrote:
I support them BUT I do not defend the MCC.

You know how I feel on this BUT gosh darn.....if all these dumb threads...

I.E "yoink 343, 343 y u lie, and fire person [insert name]"

If more people would complain like you do I would have no issues.


I wish it would be that way, too. The juvenile "343i blows monkey ballz" statements add nothing. They only serve to undermine a legitimate position - that the game, as delivered, was unacceptable.

Unfortunately, I think we probably disagree on one aspect of this . . . I find the fanboys to be even more irritating because I'm stuck in a situation where my multiplayer does not function at all. Add to that the campaign bugs, and I have become quite frustrated.

I was so excited to get this game, too . . . and I think that makes the frustration even worse.


No, I agree....I dislike when others blindly defend things too.....what is really bothering me is this...I can find matchs play story just fine.....and so can others.....but at the same time the other 50% can not.....it makes 0 sense to me.


And the few matches I've found have all been P2P. I've yet to play on a dedicated server. The inconsistency really makes no sense.

Thats my deal..I've had both but mostly servers..I wish I had more knowledge on these sort of things.....it just well as you said.....makes no sense.
I'm no help with that, either . . . I've got no real-world networking knowledge that even lets me hazard a guess.

I was so hopeful with that patch, too . . .
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